For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
bleedingmanQuote
HairballQuote
bv
Denmark latest news today:
Denmark scraps AstraZeneca vaccine
The National Board of Health has chosen to completely drop the use of the controversial vaccine in Denmark. And the newly arrived vaccine from Johnson & Johnson is being put on hold until further notice.
Danmark skrotter AstraZeneca-vaccine
Sundhedsstyrelsen har valgt helt at droppe brugen af den omstridte vaccine i Danmark. Og den nyankomne vaccine fra Johnson&Johnson lægges på køl indtil videre. (Politiken 14 April 2021)
That's a bit alarming regarding both AstraZeneca and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Not sure I'd feel completely comfortable getting either considering the circumstances, and if those were the only choices,
I'd probably just continue with the standard safety measures that kept me safe for over a year including mask, social distance, etc.
There are alternatives to the vaccine. Ivermectin, for example.
Quote
TheGreekand brainQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
daspyknows
If they do this for a Stones tour it works for me.
[profootballtalk.nbcsports.com]
The Bills were able to have some fans in the building for their playoff home games in January and they are looking forward to having a lot more of them on hand this fall.
Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said on Tuesday that he is supportive of plans to have the newly rechristened Highmark Stadium open at full capacity when the 2021 season gets underway in September. He noted that the plan is to limit admission to those who have been vaccinated for COVID-19.
“Our plan is that unless you are vaccinated, you will not have entry to the stadium. It is easy and safe,” Poloncarz said, via Sal Capaccio of WGR 550.
There was no mention of what that would mean for children under 16 as the vaccines in use are currently not approved for use for that group and there are plenty of other details about the plans for Bills games that need to come to light, but they likely won’t be the only team moving in this direction ahead of the 2021 season.
I find it incredible that there are people against such a thing, like airlines doing this. What the hell. It turns into Big Brother conspiracy garbage and on and on. Makes me think maybe those people shouldn't wear seatbelts, helmets or they should ignore road lanes, do not touch - electrocution and so on.
"You know how much this is?"
No. The price is on the container.
They look at the leaves. "I don't see it."
The price is on the container.
"What's that."
USE YOUR @#$%& EYES, MORON.
Quote
daspyknows
I agree, but people get blood clots in rare cases on a normal basis. This SHOULD be researched fully but this plays into the anti-vaxxer crowd when the rate of blood clots is not statistically different from the general population. If a few people died of car crashes after getting vaccinated does the vaccine cause car crashes or are they are statistically irrelevant?
Quote
bvQuote
bleedingmanQuote
HairballQuote
bv
Denmark latest news today:
Denmark scraps AstraZeneca vaccine
The National Board of Health has chosen to completely drop the use of the controversial vaccine in Denmark. And the newly arrived vaccine from Johnson & Johnson is being put on hold until further notice.
Danmark skrotter AstraZeneca-vaccine
Sundhedsstyrelsen har valgt helt at droppe brugen af den omstridte vaccine i Danmark. Og den nyankomne vaccine fra Johnson&Johnson lægges på køl indtil videre. (Politiken 14 April 2021)
That's a bit alarming regarding both AstraZeneca and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Not sure I'd feel completely comfortable getting either considering the circumstances, and if those were the only choices,
I'd probably just continue with the standard safety measures that kept me safe for over a year including mask, social distance, etc.
There are alternatives to the vaccine. Ivermectin, for example.
Absolutely not. Getting covid-19, and then treating it with drinking bleach, Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, or other witch doctor tricks, undocumented stuff not working, is NOT an alternative to vaccine.
There are several safe and efficient vaccines currently approved, and more coming this year. Vaccine is the only way to stop the pandemic, unless you want millions of dead people and a broken health system as well as economy broken, due to the pandemic going out of control.
Quote
bleedingman
A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness
The darn shame of the J&J vaccine being shelved for the time being is that all the anti vaxxers are screaming "see it's not safe " to which I respond - if COVID-19 doesn't kill you it will diminish your quality of life severely . So I ask what is the lesser choice ?Quote
daspyknows
It kills the virus in a f'in test tube. It needs to be treated in animals and humans. So you posted one very small clinical trial with 72 people that didn't indicate it had been peered reviewed. You would take that rather than a vaccine that has been proven to work and has a 1 in a million adverse reaction?
From drugs.com
Ivermectin has been trialled in treating the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19.
An in vitro trial has shown ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours. An in vitro study is when they study cells in a laboratory and not in a living organism.
More studies are now needed to be done using ivermectin on people or animals to see how well ivermectin works against COVID-19. This is in vivo testing.
Ivermectin is currently a FDA approved medicine for treatment of intestinal worms, Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus. It has been established as safe for human use.
Quote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.
Quote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.
Quote
stickyfingers101
a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad
b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.
and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....
that's not good for optics either.
.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...
Quote
SomeTorontoGirlQuote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.
Shovel some my way, I’ll happily take another AZ jab. Sadly, math skills are eroding, as evidenced by this hysteria. A one-in-a-million risk in the USA, for instance, would mean that they could vaccinate every man, woman and child in the country and expect to suffer 328 deaths. There have currently been 564,000+ deaths, and many seem to think that is the price of freedom. FFS.
I hear you and wanted to comment on the issue of people being forced to take a vaccine in case they want to travel or attend a live event . At the end of the day they still will have a choice and if they choose not to vaccinate then they can't do such and such thing . The people still have choices . Such a simple choice to protect ones life and quality of life . I would bet all of the broadcasters and commentators and hosts on a certain network have all been vaccinated ( they just can't tell there viewers )Quote
stickyfingers101
the problem(s) as I see it, is optics:
the chances of severe side-effects w/ J&J are very low......BUT.....
a) J&J came out "late" compared to Pfizer, Moderna....that doesn't help its cause....fewer people trust the last kid in class to get the answer.
b) Fauci and Biden and Trump and everybody else in power (in the US, at least) took Pfizer or Moderna (rather than wait for J&J which they knew was in-production)...that doesn't help J&J either...
b) J&J said it was "66% effective"....after the others were over 90%....that doesn't help either....they later said "100% against severe illness" but the 66% number was already out there....
c) Everybody said "take whatever you can get" and said the vaccines are "safe and effective"....there was zero mention of "severe" side-effects or "death"....now there are side-effects (inc. possible death)....also not good.
The odds are microscopic in terms of severe side-effects associated w/ J&J (one in a million)....HOWEVER, after all of the above, having ANY deaths or severe side-effects is problematic for the optics....
most people will take a 1 in 1 million chance IF YOU TELL THEM AHEAD OF TIME...
but, nobody likes a Monday Morning Quarterback saying "oh, wait...on second thought, it might cause death in a small # of people...sorry about that".....
they especially don't like a "Trust the Science" Monday Morning QB coming around telling them that the science has "changed".....
it's just the way people are.....
health experts have a problem....they either:
a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad
b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.
and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....
that's not good for optics either.
.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...
oh well.
1 in 1 million are fine odds....but, I want the same vaccine that the President got, thank you very much.
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
stickyfingers101
a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad
b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.
and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....
that's not good for optics either.
.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...
c) In the study groups zero people had the clotting side effect(s)
Which is the correct answer, and when people (women) did, the CDC put a pause on the distribution (which happens frequently as part of their process).
Unless trying to bolster the anti-vax argument, this should theoretically instill confidence in the process, as that's how it's designed to work.
No one is talking about "forcing" anyone to take the vaccine. Don't want to show proof to go to the concert or board an airplane etc? Don't go. If it were to happen, it would very likely be "proof of vax or a negative test done within x hours before.." So, for those unwilling, they could still go, but have to submit to a test. Seems reasonable.
Quote
bv
There will be new covid-19 variants as long as there are countries where people are not fully vaccinated. That is why it is impossible to open up and run as normal, with large crowds, for still a long while. We are all in the same boat, unless borders are closed, like in New Zealand, Australia etc. And the Olympics in Japan? They are currently in a growing 4th wave now. The new variants show no mercy.
Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months (CNBC APR 15 2021)
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Thursday people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
He also said it's possible people will need to get vaccinated against the virus annually.
"It is extremely important to suppress the pool of people that can be susceptible to the virus," he told CNBC's Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health. He added the vaccines will be an important tool in the fight against highly contagious variants.
Quote
stickyfingers101Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
stickyfingers101
a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad
b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.
and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....
that's not good for optics either.
.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...
c) In the study groups zero people had the clotting side effect(s)
Which is the correct answer, and when people (women) did, the CDC put a pause on the distribution (which happens frequently as part of their process).
Unless trying to bolster the anti-vax argument, this should theoretically instill confidence in the process, as that's how it's designed to work.
No one is talking about "forcing" anyone to take the vaccine. Don't want to show proof to go to the concert or board an airplane etc? Don't go. If it were to happen, it would very likely be "proof of vax or a negative test done within x hours before.." So, for those unwilling, they could still go, but have to submit to a test. Seems reasonable.
I see your point.
However, my point was/is Fauci and Brix and Everybody said "trust the science...the vax is 100% safe"....now they have to change that...
which looks bad...
telling people "trust me" and turning out to be wrong NEVER looks good, no matter how small your error or how it came about...
...it's simply bad optics...nothing more, nothing less.
as for Vax Passports....if it were only as simple as "concerts and airplanes" then "yes" your plan seems very reasonable (to me)...I don't agree with it, but I feel it is reasonable.
However, concerts and airplanes are, IMO, not even close to the place to start the discussion...
What's the plan for Public Transport, upon which millions and millions rely?
What about supermarkets and food-stores?
Gov't Mandated "No Vax, No Entry" in these places would be essentially forcing millions to get the vaccine....or essentially forcing them to pay for rapid-tests every day.
("essentially" was the operative word I used - ie. "indirectly" forcing by implementing widespread and possibly insurmountable restrictions, like cutting off access to public transport)
my point on this was that there are a LOT of situations that turns this issue into a legal minefield, irrespective of one's opinion on the issue...
pay your taxes....but, you can't ride taxpayer-funded, public-transport unless you get a vaccine that might kill you?
Hmmm....I dunno....Better Call Saul!!
Quote
crholmstrom
Vaccines are available for everyone over age 16 in Washington state now. Of course, trying to get an appointment is mayhem. Glad I was able to get started a month ago. Getting second shot on Saturday.
Quote
stickyfingers101
However, my point was/is Fauci and Brix and Everybody said "trust the science...the vax is 100% safe"....now they have to change that...
which looks bad...
telling people "trust me" and turning out to be wrong NEVER looks good, no matter how small your error or how it came about...
...it's simply bad optics...nothing more, nothing less.
as for Vax Passports....if it were only as simple as "concerts and airplanes" then "yes" your plan seems very reasonable (to me)...I don't agree with it, but I feel it is reasonable.
However, concerts and airplanes are, IMO, not even close to the place to start the discussion...
What's the plan for Public Transport, upon which millions and millions rely?
What about supermarkets and food-stores?
Quote
HairballQuote
crholmstrom
Vaccines are available for everyone over age 16 in Washington state now. Of course, trying to get an appointment is mayhem. Glad I was able to get started a month ago. Getting second shot on Saturday.
Same here in California, and same here about getting started - one down, one to go. . I don't think it's been that hard here for people who want the vaccine to get it - at least up until today anyways.
There was a possibility I was going to have to miss my second shot appointment for next Saturday at CVS, so I jumped on line and was easily able to get a backup appointment for the following Tuesday at the same CVS.
Turns out I can keep original appointment, so canceled plan B thus opening it up for whoever may need it. I heard on the news radio today that CA is leading the way in the US as far as actual number of vaccines being administered so far, even more than many countries, but not sure of the actual percentage of population that has received it. Big state, large population, and the vaccination process is kicking in to another gear with over 16 year olds now being eligible.