Great the weed growers get priority.

Face it, the hippies won: can't get a haircut, and weed is legal.

Not that I am complaining, mind you.

But this talk about once the vaccine campaign is in full swing we should revert back to "normal" life with all restrictions dropped is madness. Whatever you are smoking, I want some. No cigars please.

thank you
jb

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midimannz

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Nate

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daspyknows

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Nate
If vaccination isn’t the green light back to normality then what is?

Nate

The green light is Covid infections and spread is at or near zero. If not enough people get the vaccine WORLDWIDE there will be further mutations and the risk of a mutation that evades the vaccine will exist. There will be some degree of normalcy once one gets vaccines but thinking that if I get a vaccine the world will return to normalcy for me is not reality.

There is more than one set of traffic lights.If Covid is wreaking havoc in one country but a different country has completed its vaccine programme then there is no justification whatsoever for restrictions still being in place in that country.
Right now here in the U.K. we are not allowed to mix with other people.
It would be ludicrous to expect people in New Zealand to be living under the same restrictions.

Nate

The stupidity here in New Zealand is that we got lockdown again for TWO community cases in the same family

I guess that kind of stupidity is why New Zealand has had fewer than 30 deaths from Covid, then? I wish our UK government had been that stupid, given our Covid death toll of 123,000+ and counting. Go figure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-01 02:04 by Beast.

It's an interesting debate, but legal cannabis is part of the agriculture industry, and as such, in states that prioritize the industry there should be no qualms stepping up and getting their shots imo. I got mine in a county that has a lot of farm workers, and when I left it occurred to me that nowhere in the process was my identification required.
I asked one of the attendants about that, thinking they were overlooking it and was told that they do that intentionally as their main focus was getting shots into arms and requiring ID may keep some from doing that.. undocumented etc. Made sense and I'm all for everyone getting it so the fewer barriers the better. I received a detailed record of the vaccination afterwards from the heath department however.

The CDC recommended states prioritize farm workers for the Covid-19 vaccine. Some large agricultural states have not.

Texas and Florida, which have large agricultural populations, have so far left farm workers out of their Covid-19 vaccine rollout, according to state documents.

Because farmworkers risk Covid-19 exposure in the course of their jobs, the CDC proposed that they should be near the front of the vaccination line. But Texas and Florida, which have large farmworker populations, have not included farm workers in their initial rollouts, according to state documents.

Farmworker advocates said the people who pick and process the fruits and vegetables consumers rely on should become inoculated from the virus.

“We believe that farm workers should be a high priority for vaccine distribution because of their essential work and because of the high risk of exposure in the agricultural workplace,” said Alexis Guild, Director of Health Policy and Programs at Farmworker Justice.

In Texas, people who are old enough and have a history of illness are the priority, and that could include agricultural workers, said Douglas Loveday, Texas Department of State Health Services spokesman.

“Right now, agricultural workers 65 and older and those with underlying chronic illnesses that can lead to several illness or death if infected by Covid-19 can be vaccinated,” he said. “Discussions on future priority groups have begun, but nothing has yet been decided.”

Across the U.S., most farm workers are not over 65. According to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average age of farm workers is 39, with over half being younger than 44.

This past summer, Marco Antonio Galvan Gomez, a 49-year-old agricultural worker, died from Covid-19 a few weeks after arriving in Texas.

Similarly, only people 65 years old and older, long-term care facility residents, and health care personnel are authorized to receive vaccines in Florida, even though farm workers in the state have been hit hard by Covid-19. For instance, the Immokalee community in southern Florida, known as the capital of tomato production in the U.S., had dozens of deaths over the summer.

Many workers also live in employer-provided accommodations — often in cramped housing with limited options for social distancing. Among those who don’t live in these facilities, it’s also common to live in crowded conditions.

“For workers who do not work or who do not live in employer-provided housing, they still tend to live in crowded housing conditions because of their low wages,” Guild of Farmworker Justice said. “So it’s very hard for them to socially isolate, socially distance.”

An October study by researchers from the University of California San Diego found that farm workers, especially those who do not speak English and live in poverty, “may be at heightened risk for Covid-19 mortality in non-urban counties.”

All states’ distribution plans for vaccines follow a phased approach, but that differs from state to state.
[thecounter.org]

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MisterDDDD
It's an interesting debate, but legal cannabis is part of the agriculture industry, and as such, in states that prioritize the industry there should be no qualms stepping up and getting their shots imo. I got mine in a county that has a lot of farm workers, and when I left it occurred to me that nowhere in the process was my identification required.
I asked one of the attendants about that, thinking they were overlooking it and was told that they do that intentionally as their main focus was getting shots into arms and requiring ID may keep some from doing that.. undocumented etc. Made sense and I'm all for everyone getting it so the fewer barriers the better. I received a detailed record of the vaccination afterwards from the heath department however.

The CDC recommended states prioritize farm workers for the Covid-19 vaccine. Some large agricultural states have not.

Texas and Florida, which have large agricultural populations, have so far left farm workers out of their Covid-19 vaccine rollout, according to state documents.

Because farmworkers risk Covid-19 exposure in the course of their jobs, the CDC proposed that they should be near the front of the vaccination line. But Texas and Florida, which have large farmworker populations, have not included farm workers in their initial rollouts, according to state documents.

Farmworker advocates said the people who pick and process the fruits and vegetables consumers rely on should become inoculated from the virus.

“We believe that farm workers should be a high priority for vaccine distribution because of their essential work and because of the high risk of exposure in the agricultural workplace,” said Alexis Guild, Director of Health Policy and Programs at Farmworker Justice.

In Texas, people who are old enough and have a history of illness are the priority, and that could include agricultural workers, said Douglas Loveday, Texas Department of State Health Services spokesman.

“Right now, agricultural workers 65 and older and those with underlying chronic illnesses that can lead to several illness or death if infected by Covid-19 can be vaccinated,” he said. “Discussions on future priority groups have begun, but nothing has yet been decided.”

Across the U.S., most farm workers are not over 65. According to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average age of farm workers is 39, with over half being younger than 44.

This past summer, Marco Antonio Galvan Gomez, a 49-year-old agricultural worker, died from Covid-19 a few weeks after arriving in Texas.

Similarly, only people 65 years old and older, long-term care facility residents, and health care personnel are authorized to receive vaccines in Florida, even though farm workers in the state have been hit hard by Covid-19. For instance, the Immokalee community in southern Florida, known as the capital of tomato production in the U.S., had dozens of deaths over the summer.

Many workers also live in employer-provided accommodations — often in cramped housing with limited options for social distancing. Among those who don’t live in these facilities, it’s also common to live in crowded conditions.

“For workers who do not work or who do not live in employer-provided housing, they still tend to live in crowded housing conditions because of their low wages,” Guild of Farmworker Justice said. “So it’s very hard for them to socially isolate, socially distance.”

An October study by researchers from the University of California San Diego found that farm workers, especially those who do not speak English and live in poverty, “may be at heightened risk for Covid-19 mortality in non-urban counties.”

All states’ distribution plans for vaccines follow a phased approach, but that differs from state to state.
[thecounter.org]

I am a 38 year old farmer. I'm the 5th generation to work on this farm. We've of course expanded our operation over the years, but we're still very much a family run operation. To be honest, I don't see why I should be prioritized over anybody else my age for a vaccine. Of course, I'll happily take it if available to me. But social distancing was part of my everyday life before it was cool! I spend a large portion of my time by myself, in the middle of nowhere. The only people I interact with on a regular basis, outside of my wife and kids, are my parents and my brother, whom I work with. Occasionally I go to a couple places to pick up parts, supplies and product... but for the most part my life is very socially distanced. I know most farmers are the same.

However, I will say that there is a nearby vegetable farm that employs a lot of migrant workers. These people basically live on top of each other, in dorms or trailers. This was the source of a large outbreak in my area last spring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-01 02:18 by podiumboy.

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midimannz

The stupidity here in New Zealand is that we got lockdown again for TWO community cases in the same family

I think that "stupidity" is the real reason for the lockdown. People going about their business when they are supposed to be staying home (having been identified as a close contact) and then infecting others is "stupidity".

People not being fully honest with contact tracers is a good definition of "stupidity".

A Lockdown - short and hard - has been shown to work when everyone co-operates. Short term pain for long term gain.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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midimannz

The stupidity here in New Zealand is that we got lockdown again for TWO community cases in the same family

I think that "stupidity" is the real reason for the lockdown. People going about their business when they are supposed to be staying home (having been identified as a close contact) and then infecting others is "stupidity".

People not being fully honest with contact tracers is a good definition of "stupidity".

A Lockdown - short and hard - has been shown to work when everyone co-operates. Short term pain for long term gain.

You'll never have 100% compliance with anything. Heroin is illegal, and kills people everyday... yet there is no shortage of people using it or selling it. Zero Covid is not a realistic or sustainable strategy. New Zealand and Austrlaia can't hide down there forever.

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podiumboy

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CaptainCorella

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midimannz

The stupidity here in New Zealand is that we got lockdown again for TWO community cases in the same family

I think that "stupidity" is the real reason for the lockdown. People going about their business when they are supposed to be staying home (having been identified as a close contact) and then infecting others is "stupidity".

People not being fully honest with contact tracers is a good definition of "stupidity".

A Lockdown - short and hard - has been shown to work when everyone co-operates. Short term pain for long term gain.

You'll never have 100% compliance with anything. Heroin is illegal, and kills people everyday... yet there is no shortage of people using it or selling it. Zero Covid is not a realistic or sustainable strategy. New Zealand and Austrlaia can't hide down there forever.

You missed the point. "midimannz" implicitly referred to the actions of the NZ Govt as being stupid. They were forced to take that action, which I see as a frustrating last resort, because of the stupidity of (in large part) one person. That he, yes a bloke, was grossly stupid in what he did, does not make it less excusable. The NZ govt actions were not stupid.

I'm very aware of the inability to exclude stupid. Here's a good example... I live just outside what was called "The Ring Of Steel" that was imposed around Melbourne for (about) 100 days last year. There's a main road - motorway/freeway/autoroute - that runs out of the city past where I live, and I'm about 8 or so Kms from where there was a full on road block that was staffed (almost) 24/7 by police and army. Well known, and serious stuff.

But we'd still hear accounts of people driving up to this well publicised road block who were (take any of) drunk, high, driving uninsured, driving without a licence, in a stolen car, carrying drugs, carrying huge amounts of drugs, carrying huge amounts of cash they could not account for, carrying firearms.

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Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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podiumboy

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CaptainCorella

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midimannz

The stupidity here in New Zealand is that we got lockdown again for TWO community cases in the same family

I think that "stupidity" is the real reason for the lockdown. People going about their business when they are supposed to be staying home (having been identified as a close contact) and then infecting others is "stupidity".

People not being fully honest with contact tracers is a good definition of "stupidity".

A Lockdown - short and hard - has been shown to work when everyone co-operates. Short term pain for long term gain.

You'll never have 100% compliance with anything. Heroin is illegal, and kills people everyday... yet there is no shortage of people using it or selling it. Zero Covid is not a realistic or sustainable strategy. New Zealand and Austrlaia can't hide down there forever.

I'm totally in line with Beast and CC here. New Zealand and Australia are a good example on how to tackle the corona virus. Based on current knowledge it's not even sure if antibodies last more than six months (on average) in the human body. If that is the case our future will be based on getting a vaccine every half year. In other worlds, the "normal" of pre-2019 will never return. Until research has a clear picture on corona "immunity" the Down Under lockdown strategy is the best. Both vaccination and lockdown decisions should never be a political "weapon"!
123.000+ deaths on 65 million (compared with 30 deaths on 5 million) simply means ... complete failure!

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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georgie48

New Zealand and Australia are a good example on how to tackle the corona virus.

Don't disregard that the single biggest factor here is remoteness.

Nothing to do with the genius, or otherwise, of our political leaders and the good sense or stupidity of the population.

We're (both) a long way from everywhere and have the ability to close/control our borders in a way that few other nations can manage. Geography not politics.

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Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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georgie48

New Zealand and Australia are a good example on how to tackle the corona virus.

Don't disregard that the single biggest factor here is remoteness.

Nothing to do with the genius, or otherwise, of our political leaders and the good sense or stupidity of the population.

We're (both) a long way from everywhere and have the ability to close/control our borders in a way that few other nations can manage. Geography not politics.

In the case of New Zealand (small population, limited global business) remoteness is certainly a factor, but Australia has always had a very intense global business (I was there many times, and also relatives live(d) there). Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane have (before corona) had very intense international travelling, both business and tourisme (a lot with the UK, equally with Chinese, Japanese and Koreans, etc.). The Aussies responded much more quickly with travel limitation, lockdowns, etc.
England for instance was commenting that Ireland closed pubs and only did so themselves several weeks later. I know from personal experience that pubs were, are and always will be highly important when it comes socialising. So those should have been closed much earlier. I also know for fact that people returning from the European Continent to England were, in many cases, not properly checked for recent test results, certainly in the last important weeks of 2020. The wrong choice between social balance and economic balance (which to me is a political choice) has caused far too many unneseccary deaths. These choices were certainly not only made in the UK, other countries are also to blame. However, in December Italy (big countries, not counting f.i. Belgium) was still leading in Europe in numbers of deaths, just ahead of Britain. Now the UK has around 25.000 more deaths than Italy (only two months later) !!! My modest view is that the late November and December policy in the UK has to do a lot with it.
I'm glad that the vaccination pace in the UK is going very well now, but that has nothing to do with the almost 125.000 casualties.
Believe me, I've always loved Britain ... it hurts.

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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jbwelda
Great the weed growers get priority.

Face it, the hippies won: can't get a haircut, and weed is legal.

Not that I am complaining, mind you.

But this talk about once the vaccine campaign is in full swing we should revert back to "normal" life with all restrictions dropped is madness. Whatever you are smoking, I want some. No cigars please.

thank you
jb

Why would you consider it madness to drop all Covid restrictions once everyone who wants a vaccine has been vaccinated therefore eliminating the vast majority of risk of serious illness?

What’s your justification for keeping restrictions in place after the majority of risk has been removed?

Nate

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Nate


Why would you consider it madness to drop all Covid restrictions once everyone who wants a vaccine has been vaccinated therefore eliminating the vast majority of risk of serious illness?

What’s your justification for keeping restrictions in place after the majority of risk has been removed?

Nate

I'm in agreement. Once the vast majority has been vaccinated and there's proof-of-vaccine regulations in place, there will be absolutely no sane reasoning to not fully re-open. I do believe, however, that face-coverings will continue to be mandatory for a while.

March 21, 2021, I roll up my sleeve and receive the vaccine.

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TheGreek
March 21, 2021, I roll up my sleeve and receive the vaccine.

I get my second on March 11 but I know we cannot change much in terms of masks, etc. until much of the population has received their vaccinations as well.

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steffialicia

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TheGreek
March 21, 2021, I roll up my sleeve and receive the vaccine.

I get my second on March 11 but I know we cannot change much in terms of masks, etc. until much of the population has received their vaccinations as well.

I don think here, in the U.K., we can wait for everywhere else to catch-up, though. I don't think any nation should. Boarders will have to be closed for everything accept the most essential travel.

One year on, many people do still not understand how dangerous covid-19 is.

1. Antibodies are gone in half a year in many cases. This means the herd immunity theory does not work as expected. People who got sick from covid-19 last year may get sick from covid-19 once more now, 6-12 months later.

2. Vaccine may protect longer than 6-12 months, hopefully 1-2 years, they expect us to need a refill shot every 1-2 years.

3. Older people may be vaccinated this summer, but people age 0-50 will still be missing vaccine in most countries across the world. They will travel, and they will transmit any virus, remember young people may be asymptomatic.

4. As many as 30% or more are said to be anti vaccine. They will still be around on your bus, train, flights, concerts, chuch, street, shop and so on.

If covid-19 was like SARS or EBOLA, this would never happen, but many people under the age of 60 don't really worry about covid-19. That is our main challenge for opening up, and that will be a major challenge for any large events like olympics, stadium shows and festivals.

Bjornulf

Finland declares a national emergency as of today.

[yle.fi]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-01 16:20 by Topi.

Hopefully, all those wanting a vaccine in the U.K. will have had it by Boris' June date. A 'vaccine passport' can be introduced to allow those vaccinated to live a pre-Covid existence. Those who cannot vaccinate on medical grounds, should have the option to show evidence of a negative result. Anyone who chooses to not have the vaccine, and is not medically exempt, will have to miss out.

It's going to be great fun to see people get vaxxed and then watch those that think they're immune and act "normal". So much liberty being rurnt by a silly little flu bug!

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GasLightStreet
It's going to be great fun to see people get vaxxed and then watch those that think they're immune and act "normal". So much liberty being rurnt by a silly little flu bug!

-
So, what should these people do? Obey a lock-down that'll no-longer exist? The U.K. will be opening-up this summer. I suspect many will be cautious, of course. Face-coverings may still be worn in some circumstances, but freedom is on the horizon. Covid will be here, but we'll just live alongside it.

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podiumboy

I am a 38 year old farmer. I'm the 5th generation to work on this farm. We've of course expanded our operation over the years, but we're still very much a family run operation. To be honest, I don't see why I should be prioritized over anybody else my age for a vaccine. Of course, I'll happily take it if available to me. But social distancing was part of my everyday life before it was cool! I spend a large portion of my time by myself, in the middle of nowhere. The only people I interact with on a regular basis, outside of my wife and kids, are my parents and my brother, whom I work with. Occasionally I go to a couple places to pick up parts, supplies and product... but for the most part my life is very socially distanced. I know most farmers are the same.

However, I will say that there is a nearby vegetable farm that employs a lot of migrant workers. These people basically live on top of each other, in dorms or trailers. This was the source of a large outbreak in my area last spring.

Yeah.. like pretty much any of the high priority groups, except ones based solely on age, you're going to have people who aren't as high risk as others.
My wife classifies as a "first responder" yet is in a job much less risky than others who deal more directly with suspects/patients etc.

With the ultimate goal of getting everybody vaccinated, and no real time or resources to vet and prioritize people individually,
it's best that everyone get in line when they are authorized to do so, regardless.

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Anyone who chooses to not have the vaccine, and is not medically exempt, will have to miss out.

I've heard that getting around 70+ % people vaccinated should effectively "inverse exponential" growth ...

Then...
Having lots of of people vaccinated combined with continuing sensible anti-covid protocols (wear a mask, practice social distancing, etc.) will lower the amount of virus in communtites, lower the rate of subsequent infections...

Less virus in communities... Fewer vulnerable people =
CRUSH THE CURVE

Out of curiosity: does anyone here know anyone personally, whose reluctant to get vaccinated? I know people who are uncertain and, one or two who'll only vaccinate if life becomes too restrictive otherwise. I suspect they'll come around as time progresses.

I have noticed more of the over-65 crowd shopping in my store the last two weekends, many of them long-time regulars, unseen for the better part of a year. I’m guessing they all got vaccinated.

Shots every 2 years? Geez Louise, there’s got to be a better cure than that.

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Javadave
I have noticed more of the over-65 crowd shopping in my store the last two weekends, many of them long-time regulars, unseen for the better part of a year. I’m guessing they all got vaccinated.

Shots every 2 years? Geez Louise, there’s got to be a better cure than that.

No one knows for sure yet, but it’s much more likely to be annual. Covid isn’t going away any time soon , but the vaccines will help us to live alongside it without it killing us.

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Javadave
I have noticed more of the over-65 crowd shopping in my store the last two weekends, many of them long-time regulars, unseen for the better part of a year. I’m guessing they all got vaccinated.

Shots every 2 years? Geez Louise, there’s got to be a better cure than that.

Well, many get their flu-jab every year. I suppose it’ll become ordinary practice.

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grzegorz67

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Javadave
I have noticed more of the over-65 crowd shopping in my store the last two weekends, many of them long-time regulars, unseen for the better part of a year. I’m guessing they all got vaccinated.

Shots every 2 years? Geez Louise, there’s got to be a better cure than that.

No one knows for sure yet, but it’s much more likely to be annual. Covid isn’t going away any time soon , but the vaccines will help us to live alongside it without it killing us.

And to allow us to get back to a pre-covid way of living. Well, relatively normal!

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Big Al

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grzegorz67

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Javadave
I have noticed more of the over-65 crowd shopping in my store the last two weekends, many of them long-time regulars, unseen for the better part of a year. I’m guessing they all got vaccinated.

Shots every 2 years? Geez Louise, there’s got to be a better cure than that.

No one knows for sure yet, but it’s much more likely to be annual. Covid isn’t going away any time soon , but the vaccines will help us to live alongside it without it killing us.

And to allow us to get back to a pre-covid way of living. Well, relatively normal!

Let’s hope so. I agree with your idea of closing borders to all bar essential travel with full testing of all arrivals. So it looks like a year of travelling within the U.K. only but I can happily live with that if it means relative normality. Fingers crossed....

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Big Al

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GasLightStreet
It's going to be great fun to see people get vaxxed and then watch those that think they're immune and act "normal". So much liberty being rurnt by a silly little flu bug!

-
So, what should these people do? Obey a lock-down that'll no-longer exist? The U.K. will be opening-up this summer. I suspect many will be cautious, of course. Face-coverings may still be worn in some circumstances, but freedom is on the horizon. Covid will be here, but we'll just live alongside it.

Wearing a mask after being vaxxed is not a lockdown or any infringement on one living their life and the drama of their liberty. Who knows how many will not wear a mask. The vaxxed no-maskers will be the ones transmitting SRAS-Cov-2 because they will think they're immune. I hope many will heed the science and continue to wear a mask so that it can hopefully be ended even though it appears it will never go away.

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Big Al
Out of curiosity: does anyone here know anyone personally, whose reluctant to get vaccinated? I know people who are uncertain and, one or two who'll only vaccinate if life becomes too restrictive otherwise. I suspect they'll come around as time progresses.

I know someone that is defiant. Everyone else I know is not reluctant, they are eager to be vaxxed.