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jbwelda

The way things are going there will be no second doses for anyone, it will all be used up on initial doses.

Depends on - for instance in Germany some federal states do preserve vaccine doses for the second jab (3-4 weeks later, BioNTech/Moderna).

So less vaccinated persons but in the end higher immunity due to 10 - 20 times better antibody response after the 2nd vaccination (compared to the first).

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jbwelda
The way things are going there will be no second doses for anyone, it will all be used up on initial doses. That means, no real immunity which means we start all over again in a couple of months. One step forward two step backward down in a babylon.

jb

Part of the issue with "immunity" is the lack of understanding how SARS-CoV-2 works. Here are some things that illuminate why it's a very good idea to continue to mask up after completing vaccination:

People who get sick and recover from Covid-19 produce a ton of these more-specialized IgA antibodies. Because IgA antibodies occupy the same respiratory tract surfaces involved in transmitting SARS-CoV-2, we could reasonably expect that people who recover from Covid-19 aren’t spreading the virus any more. (Granted, this may also depend on how much of the virus that person was exposed to.)

But we don’t know if people who have IgG antibodies from the vaccine are stopping the virus in our respiratory tracts in the same way. And even if we did, scientists still don’t know how much of the SARS-CoV-2 virus it takes to cause a new infection. So even if we understood how well a vaccine worked to prevent a virus from replicating along the upper respiratory tract, it’d be extremely difficult to tell if that would mean a person couldn’t transmit the disease.

[qz.com]

It's being reported here in Oz this morning that a "number" of elderly people have died in Norway after having received the vaccine.

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Paulhanrahan
It's being reported here in Oz this morning that a "number" of elderly people have died in Norway after having received the vaccine.

From Bloomberg.com:

Norway Raises Concern Over Vaccine Jabs for the Elderly

> Covid Vaccination

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-17 05:36 by Hairball.

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Paulhanrahan
It's being reported here in Oz this morning that a "number" of elderly people have died in Norway after having received the vaccine.

We got the info early this week at the press meetings about the corona virus situation in Norway. There is a total of 13 elderly who died soon after they got the Pfizer vaccine, out of 40,000 vaccine shots given so far. These 13 were all defined as being at the very end of their life stage. All these 40,000 vaccinated people were actually the weakest part of the population, living in elderly homes, where we have 400 deaths every week. They are now looking into details of the deaths.

The advice is that the vaccine should not be given to those who probably will die within just a few weeks or months, because they might be too weak to fight over the mild side effects a normal person would not really have any problems with.

Bjornulf

Here in the U.K. the government is looking at very seriously tightening entry into the borders with enforced 14 days quarantine in a hotel at the travellers expense.
All those talentless YouTube people who flew out to Dubai,Barbados,Maldives etc for so called essential business are about to get a nasty surprise ><

Nate

Not before time. Some other countries have long been doing this and the results speak for themselves.

Why the vaccine rollout is slow - Let's take North Carolina for example:


[www.wral.com]

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Nate
Here in the U.K. the government is looking at very seriously tightening entry into the borders with enforced 14 days quarantine in a hotel at the travellers expense.
All those talentless YouTube people who flew out to Dubai,Barbados,Maldives etc for so called essential business are about to get a nasty surprise ><

Nate

They should have done this in Feb/March...........It was obvious even to a 'pleb like me'. Virus outside?.....Stop it getting in?...............Answer: Close border to everyone except returning Brits and foreign nationals who are prepared to quarantine in Government facilities (hotels requisitioned by the government at airports and ports) until they are certified covid free.

That might have been quite expensive but not as expensive as the price now.

Only my opinion, of course.

Remember this stadium? The Rolling Stones played their last show so far here, on Friday Aug 30, 2019.

Cars line up for Covid-19 testing on January 5 outside Hard Rock Stadium in Miami Gardens, Florida.

How empty stadiums proved useful during the Covid-19 pandemic (CNN)



Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-17 18:30 by bv.

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EddieByword

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Nate
Here in the U.K. the government is looking at very seriously tightening entry into the borders with enforced 14 days quarantine in a hotel at the travellers expense.
All those talentless YouTube people who flew out to Dubai,Barbados,Maldives etc for so called essential business are about to get a nasty surprise ><

Nate

They should have done this in Feb/March...........It was obvious even to a 'pleb like me'. Virus outside?.....Stop it getting in?...............Answer: Close border to everyone except returning Brits and foreign nationals who are prepared to quarantine in Government facilities (hotels requisitioned by the government at airports and ports) until they are certified covid free.

That might have been quite expensive but not as expensive as the price now.

Only my opinion, of course.

Given the track record of the U.K. government it probably will be done in March.

Nate

It's not exactly puzzling why all of the sudden the federal reserve has disappeared. Just can't imagine why.

Interesting article on the effectiveness of lockdowns:

(To be fair, the same article states "For additional context, other studies have oppositely determined that lockdown orders have effectively saved millions of lives.")

COVID Lockdowns May Have No Clear Benefit vs Other Voluntary Measures, International Study Shows

[www.newsweek.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-18 02:59 by bleedingman.

Lockdowns can only work if people actually stay home etc and, I dunno, don't gather for parties etc, which has been a continuous thing in the US. Probably not in their math for studying the effectiveness of lockdowns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-18 19:57 by GasLightStreet.

It is not rocket science to understand that if you lock your front door, but there are other open doors and windows in your house, your kids will probably be out to party and meet with friends, as long as there are ways to get out.

Bjornulf

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bleedingman
Interesting article on the effectiveness of lockdowns:

(To be fair, the same article states "For additional context, other studies have oppositely determined that lockdown orders have effectively saved millions of lives.")

COVID Lockdowns May Have No Clear Benefit vs Other Voluntary Measures, International Study Shows

[www.newsweek.com]

Hmm... I wonder what would have been the results looked like if, say, Sweden had been compared to Norway and Finland - their geographically and culturally close neighbors - instead of hot spots like Italy and Spain? Or what would have been the results if South Korea had been compared to, say, China or New Zealand instead of Iran and USA (damn, the closest nations in the study!)

Well, they acknowledge that "cross-country comparisons are difficult", as nations "may have different rules, cultures, and relationships between their government and citizenry". No shit, Sherlock?

Very rarely one can see such biased 'studies' in such a supposedly respected scientific journal. What were the peers thinking - if anything?

- Doxa

Of course lockdowns work. Problem -at least in Holland- is that many many people don't apply to the rules. On new years eve in Amsterdam I could hear 3 big parties going on in my street. No one cared to call the police, neither did I, although I was thinking about it. Now we are heading towards an evening clock. It never happened since WW II. This gives me the nasty feeling that something very essential -freedom- will be taken away from me, even if I don't have to go out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-18 13:06 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman
Of course lockdowns work. Problem -at least in Holland- is that many many people don't apply to the rules. On new years eve in Amsterdam I could hear 3 big parties going on in my street. No one cared to call the police, neither did I, although I was thinking about it. Now we are heading towards an evening clock. It never happened since WW II. This gives me the nasty feeling that something very essential -freedom- will be taken away from me, even if I don't have to go out.

A curfew? It has been discussed here, too, but they decided not to.

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DandelionPowderman

A curfew? It has been discussed here, too, but they decided not to.

Yup, it's not certain yet, but it's likely going to happen. Why did they decide not to do it in Norway?

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

A curfew? It has been discussed here, too, but they decided not to.

Yup, it's not certain yet, but it's likely going to happen. Why did they decide not to do it in Norway?

The lockdown has helped so far. In Oslo, the number of infected is halved.

Norway press conference on covid-19 updated actions today:

- All indoor senior sports for adults closing down, including football, ice hockey etc
- Children and younger up to age 20 may do training in groups as normal, still no games
- Alcohol sales in bars and restaurants still banned
- Mandatory testing of covid-19 at all borders - no test means no entry
- Quarantine of all people arriving into Norway still
- We may now have up to five visitors at home

There is still a high trust in the population, so that most people do follow these recommendations. A few are breaking the rules, a few get a fine of $2,000, but mostly people here do as they are told.

We were told to stay at home and have no guests at Christmas, all bars and restaurants had alcohol sales banned, being open daytime only, with social distancing. Our numbers are now going down, luckily, due to all the limitations we had during the Christmas and New Years Eve days.

Bjornulf

My friend who is in the hospital with COVID says it is like using a straw as a snorkel. Am very concerned for him.

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

A curfew? It has been discussed here, too, but they decided not to.

Yup, it's not certain yet, but it's likely going to happen. Why did they decide not to do it in Norway?

The lockdown has helped so far. In Oslo, the number of infected is halved.

There seem to be more strict rules in your country coming from the government and inhabitants listen better. In Holland it's a mess. Things are going too
slow, no one gives a damn as long as they get their monthly cheque. A lot of traffic, parties and of course the fear of that new virus in London. Planes keep flying in from England. Vaccines: very sparse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-18 14:56 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Paulhanrahan
It's being reported here in Oz this morning that a "number" of elderly people have died in Norway after having received the vaccine.

Surely statistically this was always going to happen? Very elderly people have a habit of dying, vaccine or no vaccine

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crholmstrom
My friend who is in the hospital with COVID says it is like using a straw as a snorkel. Am very concerned for him.

Hope your friend gets better and can return home soon.
A friend of my mums who contracted covid at Christmas was yesterday placed on a ventilator.

Nate

One in 8 recovered Covid patients die within 5 months-


[nypost.com]

Lockdowns are impossible for most people over extended periods, for reasons of human nature, the necessity to earn money and the realization by many people that their personal risks are very low. I encourage my young adult children to have people they can see because the dangers of longterm isolation are greater than Covid.

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wonderboy
Lockdowns are impossible for most people over extended periods, for reasons of human nature, the necessity to earn money and the realization by many people that their personal risks are very low. I encourage my young adult children to have people they can see because the dangers of longterm isolation are greater than Covid.

That's a bit skewed and unhealthy. It's also unnecessary fake drama. Do you know anyone that's had COVID? I do. Long term isolation isn't anything like getting COVID and having the true dangers of mutilated internal organs or death. Seeing people one knows have not been exposed because of limited socializing is not part of "the dangers of longeterm isolation," but hanging out with a lot of people in bars or restaurants or big groups and parties inside is because of the true factual dangers of what COVID can do.

No one has died from isolation unless they've done it to themselves.

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Nate

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crholmstrom
My friend who is in the hospital with COVID says it is like using a straw as a snorkel. Am very concerned for him.

Hope your friend gets better and can return home soon.
A friend of my mums who contracted covid at Christmas was yesterday placed on a ventilator.

Nate

Thank you. I hope your mom's friend pulls out of it.

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GasLightStreet


That's a bit skewed and unhealthy. It's also unnecessary fake drama. Do you know anyone that's had COVID? I do. Long term isolation isn't anything like getting COVID and having the true dangers of mutilated internal organs or death. Seeing people one knows have not been exposed because of limited socializing is not part of "the dangers of longeterm isolation," but hanging out with a lot of people in bars or restaurants or big groups and parties inside is because of the true factual dangers of what COVID can do.

No one has died from isolation unless they've done it to themselves.

I'm just making an observation. Nobody has been able to do anything close to a full lockdown unless they have the financial resources, and even then they must depend on others getting out and working to keep the world going, as well as producing and delivering food and supplies. My parents have been able to this, thankfully. Most of us cannot. The elected officials recommending lockdowns are certainly not doing it. The people who lectured me about following the rules I have noticed break them when nobody is watching. I'm a realist. We've caused unnecessary divisions by adopting an unreal strategy.