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Rip This
45 year old ER nurse has tested positive after taking the vaccine on 12/18....no one is safe even with a vaccine..take precautions...wash your hands repeatedly, social distance and for heavens sake wear a @#$%& mask.
[nypost.com]

That's why 2 doses and a month is needed for the vaccine to work.

Okay, shortly about Sweden. Approximately 8,500 deaths by now. About 90 percent of them over the age of 70. Population, about 10,3 million. Relatively stable situations at hospitals and intensive care units.
We have a cluster situation in some large populated areas though. Like Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. Our state epidemiologist's status is lower than what it used to be.

One problem is that politicians lean heavily on expert authorities now. So, opposition is very weak. I think one key factor to the, relatively, high numbers was the slow start in the beginning of the pandemic.
I think that is the main factor. There are some factors which divides us from other Nordic countries though. Like the fact that Sweden is a immigrant nation by now. More than a fourth of the population are immigrants. Preferably from developing countries. Immigrants stands for one half of the deaths accounted for. Another factor is the privatization of the health care sector. Especially in Stockholm.
Privatization often leads to less care but more profit. So, that's enough for now. Did you get some answers, Kovach?

Some two months ago some "pessimists" were worried that if things would continue as it was, there could be 300.000 deaths in the USA by the end of this year.
"Pessimists"??? The count is ... 340.000+. What more to say?
But .... Europe is closing in ... 6 countries (top 5 plus Belgium) with an equivalent number of people currently stands on 312.000 deaths. Russia admitted a "mistake" in its counting method. So 55.000 are ... 185.000.
And then we have Brazil and Mexico ... those two countries alone make a score of 316.000 deaths.
Small figures? Maybe if you check the global count ... 1.8 million deaths.
In the Netherlands we're closing in to 12.000 deaths, but the most recent news is that this year has an overkill of 13.000. That makes the total more than twice of that what has been reported officially, 25.000!
If this overkill figure is transfered to the whole world, possibly 3.8 million deaths thanks to Covid-19 in ... 10 months.
Not bad for what some still consider a "regular flu". Well, I take the freedom to say that we are "in the middle of shit"

OMG Mary Ann died of Covid today.

No politics please. Any such posts will be deleted. Thank you.
Naming politicians, governors, presidents etc in a good or bad way is simply politics.

Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-30 23:03 by bv.

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Beast

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CaptainCorella

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stone4ever
A lot of really sick old people in hospitals were sent into care homes to make room for expected covid patients, was it any wonder why so many elderly very sick people died earlier this year, add to that being confined to their rooms and also being unable to receive visits from love ones.
This was an cruel decision to move these patient's and was the policy of multiple governments across the world.

Please cite actual verifiable source(s).

The unfortunate truth is that stone4ever is correct about what happened earlier on in the UK. Back in March/April, older hospital patients were discharged into care homes without first being tested for Covid, which is why the virus spread and killed so many people living and working in those settings, especially as PPE at the time was either not provided at all or was inadequate.

[www.theguardian.com]

[www.theguardian.com]

[www.theguardian.com]

[www.independent.co.uk]

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Well, seemingly we here received sources. However, whoever made unforunate choices, it appears that the leading cause for deaths of so many was the virus.

I do not read that in your presentation in the quote from you, stone4ever.

Edit: A second post with another quote and some more text from me, meant to follow this post, is not going through. I must give in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-30 23:42 by Witness.

You must suspect by now the statistics you and others keep coming up with are questionable, if you did some research ( not from the usual suspects ) you might have realised by now that only 6% of those death figures in the US are a direct consequence of covid, this virus isn't tangible, it's being held up by the media, it's fear tactics, all your information is coming from MSM, they are complicit, it's an illusion, 8000 people die in the USA every day, yes three million every year, it's so easy to pass off 10% of those deaths as covid, please don't go to factcheck, Wiki etc, you are being lied to, can't you see that. I guess it's too big a mind @#$%& for most of you here to believe that the media are lying to you, i understand that, i was the same, but then you see it and you realise how deep it goes.
Oh well this is just my opinion, I should leave now, it's disappointing seeing how many have got sucked into this, it's genius really, they covered all the angles until they got you, and by the time they got you, you're already thinking differently.

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bv
No politics please. Any such posts will be deleted. Thank you.
Naming politicians, governors, presidents etc in a good or bad way is simply politics.

My apologies, bv. Understood. Thanks for all the hard work you do, providing a thread for the community to have civil and hopefully informative discussions about this pandemic.

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stone4ever
You must suspect by now the statistics you and others keep coming up with are questionable, if you did some research ( not from the usual suspects ) you might have realised by now that only 6% of those death figures in the US are a direct consequence of covid, this virus isn't tangible, it's being held up by the media, it's fear tactics, all your information is coming from MSM, they are complicit, it's an illusion, 8000 people die in the USA every day, yes three million every year, it's so easy to pass off 10% of those deaths as covid, please don't go to factcheck, Wiki etc, you are being lied to, can't you see that. I guess it's too big a mind @#$%& for most of you here to believe that the media are lying to you, i understand that, i was the same, but then you see it and you realise how deep it goes.
Oh well this is just my opinion, I should leave now, it's disappointing seeing how many have got sucked into this, it's genius really, they covered all the angles until they got you, and by the time they got you, you're already thinking differently.

This quite long post arrived one minute after mine. Who are you sddressing?

<are a direct consequence of covid>

I don't understand why it has to be a direct consequence of covid. Isn't it just as serious when this virus make people (like me) with underlying conditions croak? It's like that for a big part of the remaining 94 percent. They would have lived, hadn't it been for covid.

It's called a selective reading of numbers, mate

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Witness

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stone4ever
You must suspect by now the statistics you and others keep coming up with are questionable, if you did some research ( not from the usual suspects ) you might have realised by now that only 6% of those death figures in the US are a direct consequence of covid, this virus isn't tangible, it's being held up by the media, it's fear tactics, all your information is coming from MSM, they are complicit, it's an illusion, 8000 people die in the USA every day, yes three million every year, it's so easy to pass off 10% of those deaths as covid, please don't go to factcheck, Wiki etc, you are being lied to, can't you see that. I guess it's too big a mind @#$%& for most of you here to believe that the media are lying to you, i understand that, i was the same, but then you see it and you realise how deep it goes.
Oh well this is just my opinion, I should leave now, it's disappointing seeing how many have got sucked into this, it's genius really, they covered all the angles until they got you, and by the time they got you, you're already thinking differently.

This quite long post arrived one minute after mine. Who are you sddressing?

Dapsyknows

The following quoted post throws a light on Dandelion's post

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MileHigh
A thought experiment:

Okay, so say you have a senior citizen's residence and 80% of the seniors over 80 have underlying medical conditions. Let's say that the doctors know from medical statics that the average person in this category will live another five years.

Then, an outbreak of Covid happens and within two weeks nearly everyone in the over-80 group catches it. Then, one month after the outbreak 70% of the people in the over-80 group die. So, the people in this category live another two months on average instead of five years on average. And this happened because of the outbreak of Covid-19.

So, are you going to try to argue that the virus was not the cause of death because almost everybody that died had underlying medical conditions?

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DandelionPowderman


I don't understand why it has to be a direct consequence of covid. Isn't it just as serious when this virus make people (like me) with underlying conditions croak? It's like that for a big part of the remaining 94 percent. They would have lived, hadn't it been for covid.

It's called a selective reading of numbers, mate

I know what you have been through and my heart and prayers go out to you, but you wouldn't want to catch the flu with a weakened immune system, truth be told this is very like the flu. It's suspiciously mirrors the flu, let's face it, this is flu season and I'm sure you had a flu jab and I'm sure you will get the vaccine next week.
I will just say this, fear is the worse possible thing to the immune system, it puts it into fight or flight, this is probably not a good subject to focus on, just take good care of yourself and think positive thoughts mate.
Have a wonderful New Year DP

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stone4ever
You must suspect by now the statistics you and others keep coming up with are questionable, if you did some research ( not from the usual suspects ) you might have realised by now that only 6% of those death figures in the US are a direct consequence of covid, this virus isn't tangible, it's being held up by the media, it's fear tactics, all your information is coming from MSM, they are complicit, it's an illusion, 8000 people die in the USA every day, yes three million every year, it's so easy to pass off 10% of those deaths as covid, please don't go to factcheck, Wiki etc, you are being lied to, can't you see that. I guess it's too big a mind @#$%& for most of you here to believe that the media are lying to you, i understand that, i was the same, but then you see it and you realise how deep it goes.
Oh well this is just my opinion, I should leave now, it's disappointing seeing how many have got sucked into this, it's genius really, they covered all the angles until they got you, and by the time they got you, you're already thinking differently.

No offense, but if someone at this stage of the pandemic is still questioning the validity or seriousness of it, they are either intentionally lying, or a complete and utter idiot.
Either way, the days of arguing or citing statistics etc with someone like that are over for most of us.
Good luck.

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Witness
The following quoted post throws a light on Dandelion's post

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MileHigh
A thought experiment:

Okay, so say you have a senior citizen's residence and 80% of the seniors over 80 have underlying medical conditions. Let's say that the doctors know from medical statics that the average person in this category will live another five years.

Then, an outbreak of Covid happens and within two weeks nearly everyone in the over-80 group catches it. Then, one month after the outbreak 70% of the people in the over-80 group die. So, the people in this category live another two months on average instead of five years on average. And this happened because of the outbreak of Covid-19.

So, are you going to try to argue that the virus was not the cause of death because almost everybody that died had underlying medical conditions?

Ok first off, a LOT of elderly people died because they were taken from hospitals and put into care homes to make room for expected covid patients. This is a fact and it went on in many countries.
The other factor is how covid was treated, to put an old person with influenza on a ventilator is going to kill them. There were and are other oxygen based treatments that were being ignored, plus leaving people trapped in their rooms in care homes unable to have visitors is just about enough to make very old sick people give in. Just the stress and worry and loneliness alone had and has a devastating effect on very old people.

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MisterDDDD

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stone4ever
You must suspect by now the statistics you and others keep coming up with are questionable, if you did some research ( not from the usual suspects ) you might have realised by now that only 6% of those death figures in the US are a direct consequence of covid, this virus isn't tangible, it's being held up by the media, it's fear tactics, all your information is coming from MSM, they are complicit, it's an illusion, 8000 people die in the USA every day, yes three million every year, it's so easy to pass off 10% of those deaths as covid, please don't go to factcheck, Wiki etc, you are being lied to, can't you see that. I guess it's too big a mind @#$%& for most of you here to believe that the media are lying to you, i understand that, i was the same, but then you see it and you realise how deep it goes.
Oh well this is just my opinion, I should leave now, it's disappointing seeing how many have got sucked into this, it's genius really, they covered all the angles until they got you, and by the time they got you, you're already thinking differently.

No offense, but if someone at this stage of the pandemic is still questioning the validity or seriousness of it, they are either intentionally lying, or a complete and utter idiot.
Either way, the days of arguing or citing statistics etc with someone like that are over for most of us.
Good luck.

You have such a closed mind i pity you.
Yes I'm off, cheers everyone, get back to your statistics, take comfort in them.

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stone4ever

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Witness
The following quoted post throws a light on Dandelion's post

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MileHigh
A thought experiment:

Okay, so say you have a senior citizen's residence and 80% of the seniors over 80 have underlying medical conditions. Let's say that the doctors know from medical statics that the average person in this category will live another five years.

Then, an outbreak of Covid happens and within two weeks nearly everyone in the over-80 group catches it. Then, one month after the outbreak 70% of the people in the over-80 group die. So, the people in this category live another two months on average instead of five years on average. And this happened because of the outbreak of Covid-19.

So, are you going to try to argue that the virus was not the cause of death because almost everybody that died had underlying medical conditions?

Ok first off, a LOT of elderly people died because they were taken from hospitals and put into care homes to make room for expected covid patients. This is a fact and it went on in many countries.
The other factor is how covid was treated, to put an old person with influenza on a ventilator is going to kill them. There were and are other oxygen based treatments that were being ignored, plus leaving people trapped in their rooms in care homes unable to have visitors is just about enough to make very old sick people give in. Just the stress and worry and loneliness alone had and has a devastating effect on very old people.

You need sources for such alleged points. They are not facts, by virtue of you telling them. In the quotes that other posters supplied you with, one as to to UK, the other as to the USA, it still was the virus that was the leading cause to deaths. And you keep on reducing the dangerous impact from Covid19 virus to something like the flu, at odds with evidence that has been presented by others, bv among them. I do not buy your alternative facts.

Very seriously don't wish this virus on anyone.
But- for those that minimize it, spread propaganda and ignore the guidelines, it does make me a stronger believer in karma.

First the news today about incoming (now never to be) Congressman Luke Letflow, who downplayed the severity of it publicly and hosted/attended numerous mask-less events, died from it in just eleven days at 41.

Then tv's "Dr. Drew" who famously downplayed it as not as serious as the common flu, which he later apologized for, announced that he was home sick with the virus. Wish him well, and condolences to the young congressman to be's family, but karma is a real witch.

Alternative view, Witness, not facts

The earth is flat too. Don't forget that. And the moon is made out of cheese. I have at least eleven sources for that piece of info...

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DandelionPowderman
Alternative view, Witness, not facts

"Alternative facts" has obtained its place in the language, by how one reacts to its use.

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MisterDDDD
Very seriously don't wish this virus on anyone.
But- for those that minimize it, spread propaganda and ignore the guidelines, it does make me a stronger believer in karma.

First the news today about incoming (now never to be) Congressman Luke Letflow, who downplayed the severity of it publicly and hosted/attended numerous mask-less events, died from it in just eleven days at 41.

Then tv's "Dr. Drew" who famously downplayed it as not as serious as the common flu, which he later apologized for, announced that he was home sick with the virus. Wish him well, and condolences to the young congressman to be's family, but karma is a real witch.

Karma doesn’t exist but stupidity is very real and rampant.

Nate

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Alternative view, Witness, not facts

"Alternative facts" has obtained its place in the language, by how one reacts to its use.

And who presented that phrase? I rememberthat interview very well. It's a sensation that this phrase has been obtained at all

A fact can't both be the correct thing and an alternative claim that isn't correct, right?

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Stoneage
The earth is flat too. Don't forget that. And the moon is made out of cheese. I have at least eleven sources for that piece of info...

Indeed. I have only to ask my next door neighbour, for she truly believes that the Moon Landings were fake.

Back to the suggestion that deaths have been misattributed to Covid.

John Lennon medically died through a catastrophic loss of blood. Who in their right mind would routinely describe it as that? We all know he was murdered.

And so it is with Covid. Many patients with severe Covid die as a result of severe organ failure, but the death is still, rightly, logged as Covid caused.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Alternative view, Witness, not facts

"Alternative facts" has obtained its place in the language, by how one reacts to its use.

And who presented that phrase? I rememberthat interview very well. It's a sensation that this phrase has been obtained at all

A fact can't both be the correct thing and an alternative claim that isn't correct, right?

The term has become an Orwellian concept. In that meaning, it is revealing to use it, applied as towards alleged facts as in this thread.

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Alternative view, Witness, not facts

"Alternative facts" has obtained its place in the language, by how one reacts to its use.

And who presented that phrase? I rememberthat interview very well. It's a sensation that this phrase has been obtained at all

A fact can't both be the correct thing and an alternative claim that isn't correct, right?

The term has become an Orwellian concept. In that meaning, it is revealing to use it, applied as towards alleged facts as in this thread.

I know, but the result is that the power of the word 'fact' vanishes in the process...

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Alternative view, Witness, not facts

"Alternative facts" has obtained its place in the language, by how one reacts to its use.

And who presented that phrase? I rememberthat interview very well. It's a sensation that this phrase has been obtained at all

A fact can't both be the correct thing and an alternative claim that isn't correct, right?

The term has become an Orwellian concept. In that meaning, it is revealing to use it, applied as towards alleged facts as in this thread.

I know, but the result is that the power of the word 'fact' vanishes in the process...

It does not if you operate with 'facts' and 'alternative facts' because the latter concept has been allotted with a widely different status. It is not the term "alternative facts" that is the problem during communication, but that some speakers seek refuge into them.

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MisterDDDD
Very seriously don't wish this virus on anyone.
But- for those that minimize it, spread propaganda and ignore the guidelines, it does make me a stronger believer in karma.

First the news today about incoming (now never to be) Congressman Luke Letflow, who downplayed the severity of it publicly and hosted/attended numerous mask-less events, died from it in just eleven days at 41.

Then tv's "Dr. Drew" who famously downplayed it as not as serious as the common flu, which he later apologized for, announced that he was home sick with the virus. Wish him well, and condolences to the young congressman to be's family, but karma is a real witch.

That sounds like you are ill wishing bad Karma on people.
What goes round comes round. I think that sort of talk is provocative and although it hits your reward centre ego wise, you are subconsciously creating your own bad Karma.

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stone4ever

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MisterDDDD
Very seriously don't wish this virus on anyone.
But- for those that minimize it, spread propaganda and ignore the guidelines, it does make me a stronger believer in karma.

First the news today about incoming (now never to be) Congressman Luke Letflow, who downplayed the severity of it publicly and hosted/attended numerous mask-less events, died from it in just eleven days at 41.

Then tv's "Dr. Drew" who famously downplayed it as not as serious as the common flu, which he later apologized for, announced that he was home sick with the virus. Wish him well, and condolences to the young congressman to be's family, but karma is a real witch.

That sounds like you are ill wishing bad Karma on people.
What goes round comes round. I think that sort of talk is provocative and although it hits your reward centre ego wise, you are subconsciously creating your own bad Karma.

Excellent example of your comprehension skills.
Thank you.

Oh i comprehend very well , I see where you are coming from, let's see what happens.