Tell Me :
Talk
That's kind of the thing I was alluding to. Note the manifestation you are referring to happens in many countries.
Note also that although I support all of the measures being taken to combat the virus, the people that disagree with those policies are not "all stupid" either. You simply cannot shut down a functioning economy indefinitely. Then the cure really and truly is worse than the disease. There is some balance that has to come into play also. Where that balance point is, is needless to say, a subject of strong debate. And that's what a democracy is all about.
Take as an example another situation. Alcohol is "bad" and causes health problems and causes many premature deaths as well as alcohol-related accidents. But we have decided as a society that alcohol is permitted. Alcohol is a source of pleasure and enjoyment.
It's not easy to find a balance with Covid-19. However, now that we have multiple vaccines, it makes sense to hold on and endure the pain because there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure.
Ridiculous viewpoint. As I type this there are over 20k people in hospital in the uk with it. More than at any point. Let’s hope you and yours don’t need hospital care for anything else over the next few months. This is exactly the conspiracy theory nonsense that’ll prolong this thing more than necessary.
Embarrassing
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
I can't send a link on my tablet but you only have to Google the CDC (Centres For Disease Control) figures that reveal that only 6 % of covid deaths were a direct result of covid 19. The media have since attempted to debunk these official figures. Hospitals all cover Britain have been reported as being far from busy this year, reality seems to show a completely different struggle with Covid to the one being reported through MSM.
Who to believe that is my dilemma, i talk to everyone, postmen, people on the checkout in huge supermarkets, key workers, hotel staff, i say has anyone been taken ill with covid ?, no they always say, do you know anyone who knows anyone taken ill or has died from covid ?, no they always say.
This is a virus that is so selective, it only comes out after 10 at night, only peaks when the flu season peaks, doesn't effect third world countries with people living in close proximity as much as Rich countries with fantastic health care.
Why were private hospitals in America being given tens of thousands more per patient if they put them on a ventilator, especially when a ventilator causes organ failure in old weak people, there are three levels of oxygen treatments in severe respiratory illnesses, two of which were being ignored by doctors and straight into a ventilator.
In the States if a person died from motorbike accident but tested positive for covid that person went down as a covid death, this is all true if you research where, why and how governments and states get the statistics we believe to be true.
Why are there so many false positives from testing, why do the vast majority of people have no symptoms or mild symptoms, why did Sweden have similar deaths without drastic lockdowns, why is it safe to go in coffee shops with people gathered inside and outside but a small business or shop gets locked down and can't even let in one customer at a time. So many things don't add up, why did Boris say there would be 50 thousand cases each day in Britain if we didn't have a lockdown in November. Why are we wearing masks if they don't work, why are we having lockdowns if masks do work. Why in recent lockdowns were schools and colleges and universities allowed to stay open but the rest of us have to stay in and can't work to provide for our families.
It's so confusing, lockdowns clearly don't work and yet we will have lockdowns until the economy is ruined, and then there won't even be enough money for the NHS or equilivent in other countries to give health care or treatments. People are not looking towards what lockdowns lead to , mass unemployment, suicide, people will become bankrupt, they will lose their businesses and their homes.
Sorry BV i wasn't going to comment on this subject again as i can see how unpopular my views are but wanted to respond to your post.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 14:01 by stone4ever.
We have the same problem here, no thorough analysis, just absolutes. Of the 2,100 listed as covid deaths, according to Central Statistics Office 100 have covid 19 listed as cause of death, 300 were not tested and assumed covid 1,700 covid with comorbidities. 50% over age of 83 with comorbidities. No cycle threshold analysis with any PCR test.
We are in level 5 lockdown, with lowest ICU admittance in last few years, 22 ICU with suspected covid as opposed to 155 ICU in March. PCR cases fluctuate wildly, with no proportionate increase in ICU from May to December.
HSE warned of serious backlog of untreated conditions due to hospitals cancelling treatments since March. MSM wont have any medical professional on air with a view that differs from prevailing narrative, those views from Irish doctors are on Twitter though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 14:26 by IrelandCalling4.
BV, totally agree with you and the voracity of this disease. And I believe the stats you share are sadly bearing this out. I hope the horizon gets a little brighter for us all with the vaccines that are on the way!!
I did want to point out that your 1% stat (US population) is off, would be closer to 3.3M or 3.4M people, but nonetheless, 1 life perishing due to this disease is 1 too many.
In the same vein as Dandelion.
Have you, stone4ever, read your own link through and really reflected on it?
There according to a reality check by Axios:
" ............, , this does not mean that the virus was not a contributing factor or, indeed, the leading cause in the other 94%".
And you give out these other people as alternatively "very sick dying persons or people that suffered from some sort of accident". A somewhat biased presentation, one may think.
No worry.
Yes it is a problem, what and who to believe, thanks for your statistics, it's all a leap of faith what to believe, when you know we are being lied to it opens up a can of worms, when the statistics that the media report are in question, where do you go, you have to go deeper, i spent months on this during the first lockdown and between the government official prevailing account of covid and all the conspiracy loonies you just don't know what the facts are.
My view is that Covid has been highjacked by politics, it's being used to fulfil certain worrying agendas, it's become a tool to control people and their freedom, especially freedom of speech. That worries me when anyone who questions the official narrative effectively becomes a conspiracy theorists or a right wing nut job, that is such a lazy argument, to say someone who disagrees with you is batshit crazy when you haven't even bothered to do any research beyond MSM FACT CHECKING. The amount of people banned from social media for trying to reveal what some doctors and nurses are saying concerning covid strikes alarm bells to me, at least let these people link a video of have an opinion on special media, that sounds fair to me, that's democracy.
I just want the truth, not right wing or left wing bias.
The trouble is you can't get the truth between all the division in people, I guess somewhere in the middle lies the truth, that this is a killer virus, of that we have no doubt, but does treating it justify a breakdown in world economies through lockdowns, I'm not so sure, i will say this though, China's GDP is looking healthy this year end.
Facts:
The Daily Wire is a completely biased news site. They make their own news, not based on facts, but upon politics. This is what Wikipedia is saying about The Daily Wire:
The Daily Wire (Wikipedia)
The Daily Wire is an American right-wing news and opinion website founded in 2015 by political commentator Ben Shapiro and director Jeremy Boreing.
According to Snopes, "DailyWire.com has a tendency to share stories that are taken out of context or not verified", including reports on protesters digging up Confederate graves, Democratic congresspeople refusing to stand for a fallen Navy SEAL's widow, and Harvard University holding segregated commencement ceremonies.[17] The credibility checker NewsGuard assessed that The Daily Wire "severely violates basic standards of credibility and transparency", "often misstates facts to advance partisan opinion" and "frequently publishes false and misleading information, particularly in stories about abortion".
.....
Then to this out of context 6% only from covid-19 claim:
From the "The Daily Wire" report:
Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published an update on the data regarding U.S. deaths linked to the China-originated novel coronavirus, or COVID-19. The report included a portion on “comorbidities” and stated that of all the deaths attributed to COVID, a mere 6% of those deaths had COVID alone
This is the actual CDC report, as linked up from the Daily Wire quote above:
Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) (CDC Updated: December 23, 2020)
Then this is what is taken completely out of contect:
Comorbidities
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of mentions for each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups.
Facts:
Covid-19 is the underlying reason for death, often with many complicating factors, as explained here:
Death certificate data: COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death (CEBT - Oxford University Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine)
World Health Organisation guidelines state that “COVID-19 should be recorded on the medical certificate of cause of death for ALL decedents where the disease, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death, i.e. COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death”. Such an example would be someone who has developed pneumonia as a result of COVID-19, dies from acute respiratory distress. Alternatively, COVID-19 may be present on the death certificate as a significant condition contributing to death but not the underlying cause.
Bjornulf
It is interesting to observe the five Nordic countries Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, and how their politics and actions related to the corona pandemic have been working. In a year or two from now, scientists and researchers will tell us what was right, what was wrong, and what we should learn from this. Meanwhile, these are some personal thoughts and observations, as seen from my side, living in Norway.
The Nordic countries are all very similar. We have a strong public health system. If you get sick, the state hospitals will take care of you, with excellent skilled doctors and nurses, at no cost, except for a very small fee like $10 or so. We have been on the top ten list of countries in the world where people feel safe and happy, due to social security. We trust the governments, we trust our politicians, and we trust our health authorities.
Sweden have been running a more relaxed attitude vs the corona virus than the other Nordic countries. Anders Tegnell is the current state epidemiologist of Sweden. He is just as popular in Sweden, as Anthony Fauchi is popular in USA. Example of his popularity: The man with the epidemiologist tattoo - a very Swedish tribute.
In Australia you may get a fine of AUS $20,000 for breaking the corona laws. In Norway, you get a fine of US $2,000 for the same. In Sweden, there is no law to be broken, they planned to make a law by March 2021, but now they try to do it faster. Some people will never follow any advice or recommendation until there is a law, and a hefty fine to be paid if you break the law.
One of my brothers have a summer cabin in the Skåne area, south of Sweden. Every time he visit his cabin, he have to stay in a ten days quarantine when coming home to Norway, so naturally he haven't been there many times since March 12 this year. Still, when he go there, he is surprised how people in Sweden act vs the corona virus. They do not wear masks, they do not keep the same distances we have in Norway, and they are now blod red by the covid-19 numbers, ten times more people in hospital, ten times more deaths, by the million people in the population, and their prime minister Stefan Löfven is now a lot more active in press conferences, and in taking control of the situation.
I have many friends in Sweden. I would not say anything bad about my friends or our neighbor country. I wish them the best. There are different ways of handling a problem. I just hope they will find a good and safe way of fighting the pandemic.
Reference:
Coronaviruset: Här är de senaste siffrorna (Aftonbladet - latest corona virus numbers in Sweden)
Bjornulf
I'm only partly Swede, but I gotta say that Sweden handled this pandemic in a disastrous manner - from the neglecting of the elderly in the beginning, through irresponsible behaviour, a naive goal about getting herd immunity in Stockholm in May, and way too few restrictions and actions to avoid spreading the virus.
The numbers of deceased and infected are horrifying for such a small country.
And staying in one for a couple weeks might be like a 2nd house payment.
Daspyknows, I think your remark is a bit blunt, but never mind. A couple of mails earlier I mentioned that current communication is chaotic in a sense that Facebook and the likes (also part of the media, right?) have a very negative impact on people in terms of unbiased information coming to them. Its not about blaming the media in general, but "in specific". Too many people prefer to use popular media sources which don't care about filtering out nonsence. One can blame the media objectively or subjectively. Objective people are not Civid-19 and/or vaccination deniers. It's the jubjective people who use a "useful" part (for them) of the media to support their anti Covid-19/vaccination attitude.
Adding things up to me the total sum of what the media say = chaos.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: December 29, 2020 10:31
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
steffialicia
So stupid isn't only an American phenomenon unfortunately.
Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that.
American stupidity has never been higher than in 2020. Learning has been at its highest inefficiency elsewhere though not EVERYwhere. As someone that lives in the US I have witnessed and have had to experience the first part of that way too many times this year.
That's kind of the thing I was alluding to. Note the manifestation you are referring to happens in many countries.
Note also that although I support all of the measures being taken to combat the virus, the people that disagree with those policies are not "all stupid" either. You simply cannot shut down a functioning economy indefinitely. Then the cure really and truly is worse than the disease. There is some balance that has to come into play also. Where that balance point is, is needless to say, a subject of strong debate. And that's what a democracy is all about.
Take as an example another situation. Alcohol is "bad" and causes health problems and causes many premature deaths as well as alcohol-related accidents. But we have decided as a society that alcohol is permitted. Alcohol is a source of pleasure and enjoyment.
It's not easy to find a balance with Covid-19. However, now that we have multiple vaccines, it makes sense to hold on and endure the pain because there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
yorkshirestone
()
Date: December 29, 2020 10:34
Quote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
The way old people have been treated in care homes confined to their bedrooms and allowed no visits from loved ones is it any wonder they are dying, these are mostly very sick people to start with.
I feel sorry for everyone on hear believing everything their government's are telling them, as far as covid goes fear is the virus and knowledge is the cure, you only have to look to the third world to see this is no Spanish flu, nothing like it in severity, this is a very bad influenza type illness at worse that is similar to the flu, notice how it all but disappeared in the summer, in Britain it was down to a few deaths each day, this when lockdowns were lifted and places were packed with holiday makers from the cities. This whole thing has been exaggerated out of proportion.
I'm feeling worried that so many of you still believe this scam, it's just politics now, why else with all the statistics available to you would you still welcome lockdowns.
I'm out of here, have a great life.
Ridiculous viewpoint. As I type this there are over 20k people in hospital in the uk with it. More than at any point. Let’s hope you and yours don’t need hospital care for anything else over the next few months. This is exactly the conspiracy theory nonsense that’ll prolong this thing more than necessary.
Embarrassing
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: December 29, 2020 11:56
Quote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: December 29, 2020 13:09
Quote
bvQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
I'm feeling worried that so many of you still believe this scam, it's just politics now, why else with all the statistics available to you would you still welcome lockdowns.
I'm out of here, have a great life.
This is untrue and undocumented lies.
Please supply a link to serious documentation for your statements.
Fact is covid-19 have a fatality rate of 0.5% or more which is five times more than the annual flu. Fact is the fatality rate among age 60+ is way higher than 0.5%. If covid-19 is "let loose" and out of control, A LOT of people will die.
So far 1% of the US population have died from covid-19, a total of 340,000 people, while most of the elderly and people age 60+ have been careful and protected. This number will be 5-10 times higher without any measures like distance, test, trace, quarantine etc.
Data reveal deadliness of COVID-19, even in young adults (CIDRAP - University of Minnesota, USA - Dec 17, 2020)
Even though all-cause mortality due to COVID-19 may not be known for a while, two new studies highlight that 173,300 (79.5%) of excess deaths from March through August were COVID related, with 4,535 deaths occurring from March through July in younger adults ages 25 to 44, or 38% of all excess deaths in that group.
After adjusting mortality data to reflect an aging US demographic, 173,300 (79.5%) of the 218,000 excess deaths from March through August were related to COVID, according to the Annals study. Without this adjustment, 57.5% of 301,400 excess deaths were COVID related, but the absolute number of COVID-attributable deaths stayed the same.
Thousands of COVID deaths in young adults
During the first 5 months of the pandemic, 76,088 all-cause deaths occurred among young adults, with each month showing excess, according to the JAMA research letter. The researchers found 11,899 more Americans ages 25 through 44 have died than expected (18%), with 4,535 (38%) of the deaths caused by COVID-19.
A New York Times opinion article written by three US experts notes that, over the past 20 years, 11,000 young adults have died in July. This year, more than 16,000 did.
I can't send a link on my tablet but you only have to Google the CDC (Centres For Disease Control) figures that reveal that only 6 % of covid deaths were a direct result of covid 19. The media have since attempted to debunk these official figures. Hospitals all cover Britain have been reported as being far from busy this year, reality seems to show a completely different struggle with Covid to the one being reported through MSM.
Who to believe that is my dilemma, i talk to everyone, postmen, people on the checkout in huge supermarkets, key workers, hotel staff, i say has anyone been taken ill with covid ?, no they always say, do you know anyone who knows anyone taken ill or has died from covid ?, no they always say.
This is a virus that is so selective, it only comes out after 10 at night, only peaks when the flu season peaks, doesn't effect third world countries with people living in close proximity as much as Rich countries with fantastic health care.
Why were private hospitals in America being given tens of thousands more per patient if they put them on a ventilator, especially when a ventilator causes organ failure in old weak people, there are three levels of oxygen treatments in severe respiratory illnesses, two of which were being ignored by doctors and straight into a ventilator.
In the States if a person died from motorbike accident but tested positive for covid that person went down as a covid death, this is all true if you research where, why and how governments and states get the statistics we believe to be true.
Why are there so many false positives from testing, why do the vast majority of people have no symptoms or mild symptoms, why did Sweden have similar deaths without drastic lockdowns, why is it safe to go in coffee shops with people gathered inside and outside but a small business or shop gets locked down and can't even let in one customer at a time. So many things don't add up, why did Boris say there would be 50 thousand cases each day in Britain if we didn't have a lockdown in November. Why are we wearing masks if they don't work, why are we having lockdowns if masks do work. Why in recent lockdowns were schools and colleges and universities allowed to stay open but the rest of us have to stay in and can't work to provide for our families.
It's so confusing, lockdowns clearly don't work and yet we will have lockdowns until the economy is ruined, and then there won't even be enough money for the NHS or equilivent in other countries to give health care or treatments. People are not looking towards what lockdowns lead to , mass unemployment, suicide, people will become bankrupt, they will lose their businesses and their homes.
Sorry BV i wasn't going to comment on this subject again as i can see how unpopular my views are but wanted to respond to your post.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: December 29, 2020 13:44
Quote
CaptainCorellaQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 14:01 by stone4ever.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
IrelandCalling4
()
Date: December 29, 2020 14:24
Quote
stone4everQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
We have the same problem here, no thorough analysis, just absolutes. Of the 2,100 listed as covid deaths, according to Central Statistics Office 100 have covid 19 listed as cause of death, 300 were not tested and assumed covid 1,700 covid with comorbidities. 50% over age of 83 with comorbidities. No cycle threshold analysis with any PCR test.
We are in level 5 lockdown, with lowest ICU admittance in last few years, 22 ICU with suspected covid as opposed to 155 ICU in March. PCR cases fluctuate wildly, with no proportionate increase in ICU from May to December.
HSE warned of serious backlog of untreated conditions due to hospitals cancelling treatments since March. MSM wont have any medical professional on air with a view that differs from prevailing narrative, those views from Irish doctors are on Twitter though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 14:26 by IrelandCalling4.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
BN78
()
Date: December 29, 2020 14:44
Quote
bvQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
I'm feeling worried that so many of you still believe this scam, it's just politics now, why else with all the statistics available to you would you still welcome lockdowns.
I'm out of here, have a great life.
This is untrue and undocumented lies.
Please supply a link to serious documentation for your statements.
Fact is covid-19 have a fatality rate of 0.5% or more which is five times more than the annual flu. Fact is the fatality rate among age 60+ is way higher than 0.5%. If covid-19 is "let loose" and out of control, A LOT of people will die.
So far 1% of the US population have died from covid-19, a total of 340,000 people, while most of the elderly and people age 60+ have been careful and protected. This number will be 5-10 times higher without any measures like distance, test, trace, quarantine etc.
Data reveal deadliness of COVID-19, even in young adults (CIDRAP - University of Minnesota, USA - Dec 17, 2020)
Even though all-cause mortality due to COVID-19 may not be known for a while, two new studies highlight that 173,300 (79.5%) of excess deaths from March through August were COVID related, with 4,535 deaths occurring from March through July in younger adults ages 25 to 44, or 38% of all excess deaths in that group.
After adjusting mortality data to reflect an aging US demographic, 173,300 (79.5%) of the 218,000 excess deaths from March through August were related to COVID, according to the Annals study. Without this adjustment, 57.5% of 301,400 excess deaths were COVID related, but the absolute number of COVID-attributable deaths stayed the same.
Thousands of COVID deaths in young adults
During the first 5 months of the pandemic, 76,088 all-cause deaths occurred among young adults, with each month showing excess, according to the JAMA research letter. The researchers found 11,899 more Americans ages 25 through 44 have died than expected (18%), with 4,535 (38%) of the deaths caused by COVID-19.
A New York Times opinion article written by three US experts notes that, over the past 20 years, 11,000 young adults have died in July. This year, more than 16,000 did.
BV, totally agree with you and the voracity of this disease. And I believe the stats you share are sadly bearing this out. I hope the horizon gets a little brighter for us all with the vaccines that are on the way!!
I did want to point out that your 1% stat (US population) is off, would be closer to 3.3M or 3.4M people, but nonetheless, 1 life perishing due to this disease is 1 too many.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 29, 2020 14:45
Would the rest (220.000) have died anyway, according to the CDC? I can't find that info anywhere...
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:02
Quote
stone4everQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
In the same vein as Dandelion.
Have you, stone4ever, read your own link through and really reflected on it?
There according to a reality check by Axios:
" ............, , this does not mean that the virus was not a contributing factor or, indeed, the leading cause in the other 94%".
And you give out these other people as alternatively "very sick dying persons or people that suffered from some sort of accident". A somewhat biased presentation, one may think.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
steffialicia
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:12
Quote
MileHighQuote
steffialiciaQuote
MileHighQuote
steffialicia
So stupid isn't only an American phenomenon unfortunately.
Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that.
As an American, who is frightened to death of what is going on in this country, the only shame I have concerns the ignorance being shown by some of my fellow citizens.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I was getting a "let's bash America/all Americans are stupid" sense and I stand corrected.
No worry.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:13
Those in favour of no lockdown often pointed to Sweden as the model of success to emulate. But now Sweden is on the verge of introducing a (temporary) pandemic law giving more lockdown powers, so someone somewhere has changed their mind about the virtues of that model or was this also partly prompted by the King's recent comments? It would be interesting to hear from any Swedes on here who can enlighten us.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:14
Quote
IrelandCalling4Quote
stone4everQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
We have the same problem here, no thorough analysis, just absolutes. Of the 2,100 listed as covid deaths, according to Central Statistics Office 100 have covid 19 listed as cause of death, 300 were not tested and assumed covid 1,700 covid with comorbidities. 50% over age of 83 with comorbidities. No cycle threshold analysis with any PCR test.
We are in level 5 lockdown, with lowest ICU admittance in last few years, 22 ICU with suspected covid as opposed to 155 ICU in March. PCR cases fluctuate wildly, with no proportionate increase in ICU from May to December.
HSE warned of serious backlog of untreated conditions due to hospitals cancelling treatments since March. MSM wont have any medical professional on air with a view that differs from prevailing narrative, those views from Irish doctors are on Twitter though.
Yes it is a problem, what and who to believe, thanks for your statistics, it's all a leap of faith what to believe, when you know we are being lied to it opens up a can of worms, when the statistics that the media report are in question, where do you go, you have to go deeper, i spent months on this during the first lockdown and between the government official prevailing account of covid and all the conspiracy loonies you just don't know what the facts are.
My view is that Covid has been highjacked by politics, it's being used to fulfil certain worrying agendas, it's become a tool to control people and their freedom, especially freedom of speech. That worries me when anyone who questions the official narrative effectively becomes a conspiracy theorists or a right wing nut job, that is such a lazy argument, to say someone who disagrees with you is batshit crazy when you haven't even bothered to do any research beyond MSM FACT CHECKING. The amount of people banned from social media for trying to reveal what some doctors and nurses are saying concerning covid strikes alarm bells to me, at least let these people link a video of have an opinion on special media, that sounds fair to me, that's democracy.
I just want the truth, not right wing or left wing bias.
The trouble is you can't get the truth between all the division in people, I guess somewhere in the middle lies the truth, that this is a killer virus, of that we have no doubt, but does treating it justify a breakdown in world economies through lockdowns, I'm not so sure, i will say this though, China's GDP is looking healthy this year end.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:16
there's more than one way to die because of COVID-19. An infection weakens the immune system. Thus an infection with COVID-19 opens pathways for 'opportunistic' infections, i.e. infections that a healthy immune system is usually able to cope with.
It's a little bit like with HIV/AIDS – people aren't/weren't always killed by the virus itself but by other infections (like pneumonia) that their weakened immune system couldn't cope with anymore.
It's a little bit like with HIV/AIDS – people aren't/weren't always killed by the virus itself but by other infections (like pneumonia) that their weakened immune system couldn't cope with anymore.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:23
WHO warns Covid-19 pandemic is 'not necessarily the big one'
Experts tell end of year media briefing that virus is likely to become endemic and the world will have to learn to live with it
World Health Organization experts have warned that even though the coronavirus pandemic has been very severe, it is “not necessarily the big one”, and that the world will have to learn to live with Covid-19.
The “destiny” of the virus is to become endemic, even as vaccines begin to be rolled out in the US and UK, says Professor David Heymann, the chair of the WHO’s strategic and technical advisory group for infectious hazards.
“The world has hoped for herd immunity, that somehow transmission would be decreased if enough persons were immune,” he told the WHO’s final media briefing for 2020.
But Heymann, who is also an epidemiologist with the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said the concept of herd immunity was misunderstood.
“It appears the destiny of SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] is to become endemic, as have four other human coronaviruses, and that it will continue to mutate as it reproduces in human cells, especially in areas of more intense admission.
“Fortunately, we have tools to save lives, and these in combination with good public health will permit us to learn to live with Covid-19.”
The head of the WHO emergencies program, Dr Mark Ryan, said: “The likely scenario is the virus will become another endemic virus that will remain somewhat of a threat, but a very low-level threat in the context of an effective global vaccination program.
“It remains to be seen how well the vaccines are taken up, how close we get to a coverage level that might allow us the opportunity to go for elimination,” he said. “The existence of a vaccine, even at high efficacy, is no guarantee of eliminating or eradicating an infectious disease. That is a very high bar for us to be able to get over.”
That was why the first goal of the vaccine was to save lives and protect the vulnerable, Ryan said. “And then we will deal with the moonshot of potentially being able to eliminate or eradicate this virus.”
Ryan warned that the next pandemic may be more severe. “This pandemic has been very severe … it has affected every corner of this planet. But this is not necessarily the big one,” he said.
“This is a wake-up call. We are learning, now, how to do things better: science, logistics, training and governance, how to communicate better. But the planet is fragile.
“We live in an increasingly complex global society. These threats will continue. If there is one thing we need to take from this pandemic, with all of the tragedy and loss, is we need to get our act together. We need to honour those we’ve lost by getting better at what we do every day.”
WHO chief scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan told the briefing that being vaccinated against the virus did not mean public health measures such as social distancing would be able to be stopped in future.
The first role of the vaccine would be to prevent symptomatic disease, severe disease and deaths, she said. But whether the vaccines would also reduce the number of infections or prevent people from passing on the virus remains to be seen.
“I don’t believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it’s going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on,” Swaminathan said. “So I think we need to assume that people who have been vaccinated also need to take the same precautions.”
The WHO director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said the end of the year was a time to reflect on the toll the pandemic had taken, but also the progress made. He said the year ahead would see new setbacks and new challenges.
“For example, new variants of Covid-19, and helping people who are tired of the pandemic continue to combat it,” he said.
“New ground has been broken, not least with the extraordinary cooperation between the private and public sector in this pandemic. And in recent weeks, safe and effective vaccine rollout has started in a number countries, which is an incredible scientific achievement.
“This is fantastic, but WHO will not rest until those in need everywhere have access to the new vaccines and are protected.”
[www.theguardian.com]
Experts tell end of year media briefing that virus is likely to become endemic and the world will have to learn to live with it
World Health Organization experts have warned that even though the coronavirus pandemic has been very severe, it is “not necessarily the big one”, and that the world will have to learn to live with Covid-19.
The “destiny” of the virus is to become endemic, even as vaccines begin to be rolled out in the US and UK, says Professor David Heymann, the chair of the WHO’s strategic and technical advisory group for infectious hazards.
“The world has hoped for herd immunity, that somehow transmission would be decreased if enough persons were immune,” he told the WHO’s final media briefing for 2020.
But Heymann, who is also an epidemiologist with the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said the concept of herd immunity was misunderstood.
“It appears the destiny of SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] is to become endemic, as have four other human coronaviruses, and that it will continue to mutate as it reproduces in human cells, especially in areas of more intense admission.
“Fortunately, we have tools to save lives, and these in combination with good public health will permit us to learn to live with Covid-19.”
The head of the WHO emergencies program, Dr Mark Ryan, said: “The likely scenario is the virus will become another endemic virus that will remain somewhat of a threat, but a very low-level threat in the context of an effective global vaccination program.
“It remains to be seen how well the vaccines are taken up, how close we get to a coverage level that might allow us the opportunity to go for elimination,” he said. “The existence of a vaccine, even at high efficacy, is no guarantee of eliminating or eradicating an infectious disease. That is a very high bar for us to be able to get over.”
That was why the first goal of the vaccine was to save lives and protect the vulnerable, Ryan said. “And then we will deal with the moonshot of potentially being able to eliminate or eradicate this virus.”
Ryan warned that the next pandemic may be more severe. “This pandemic has been very severe … it has affected every corner of this planet. But this is not necessarily the big one,” he said.
“This is a wake-up call. We are learning, now, how to do things better: science, logistics, training and governance, how to communicate better. But the planet is fragile.
“We live in an increasingly complex global society. These threats will continue. If there is one thing we need to take from this pandemic, with all of the tragedy and loss, is we need to get our act together. We need to honour those we’ve lost by getting better at what we do every day.”
WHO chief scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan told the briefing that being vaccinated against the virus did not mean public health measures such as social distancing would be able to be stopped in future.
The first role of the vaccine would be to prevent symptomatic disease, severe disease and deaths, she said. But whether the vaccines would also reduce the number of infections or prevent people from passing on the virus remains to be seen.
“I don’t believe we have the evidence on any of the vaccines to be confident that it’s going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on,” Swaminathan said. “So I think we need to assume that people who have been vaccinated also need to take the same precautions.”
The WHO director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said the end of the year was a time to reflect on the toll the pandemic had taken, but also the progress made. He said the year ahead would see new setbacks and new challenges.
“For example, new variants of Covid-19, and helping people who are tired of the pandemic continue to combat it,” he said.
“New ground has been broken, not least with the extraordinary cooperation between the private and public sector in this pandemic. And in recent weeks, safe and effective vaccine rollout has started in a number countries, which is an incredible scientific achievement.
“This is fantastic, but WHO will not rest until those in need everywhere have access to the new vaccines and are protected.”
[www.theguardian.com]
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: December 29, 2020 15:39
Quote
stone4everQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
stone4ever
According to the government figures in Britain only 6% of covid deaths have been a direct result of covid.
Can you cite the source of that data?
TIA.
[www.dailywire.com]
As i said above the Dailywire along with 90% of MSM have done their best to cover up the facts shown by the CDC, the fact remains that the figures we receive are a scam, the CDC found that out of 235000 covid deaths only 15000 were actually covid deaths. The others were already very very sick dying people or people that suffered some sort of accident.
Facts:
The Daily Wire is a completely biased news site. They make their own news, not based on facts, but upon politics. This is what Wikipedia is saying about The Daily Wire:
The Daily Wire (Wikipedia)
The Daily Wire is an American right-wing news and opinion website founded in 2015 by political commentator Ben Shapiro and director Jeremy Boreing.
According to Snopes, "DailyWire.com has a tendency to share stories that are taken out of context or not verified", including reports on protesters digging up Confederate graves, Democratic congresspeople refusing to stand for a fallen Navy SEAL's widow, and Harvard University holding segregated commencement ceremonies.[17] The credibility checker NewsGuard assessed that The Daily Wire "severely violates basic standards of credibility and transparency", "often misstates facts to advance partisan opinion" and "frequently publishes false and misleading information, particularly in stories about abortion".
.....
Then to this out of context 6% only from covid-19 claim:
From the "The Daily Wire" report:
Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published an update on the data regarding U.S. deaths linked to the China-originated novel coronavirus, or COVID-19. The report included a portion on “comorbidities” and stated that of all the deaths attributed to COVID, a mere 6% of those deaths had COVID alone
This is the actual CDC report, as linked up from the Daily Wire quote above:
Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) (CDC Updated: December 23, 2020)
Then this is what is taken completely out of contect:
Comorbidities
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of mentions for each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups.
Facts:
Covid-19 is the underlying reason for death, often with many complicating factors, as explained here:
Death certificate data: COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death (CEBT - Oxford University Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine)
World Health Organisation guidelines state that “COVID-19 should be recorded on the medical certificate of cause of death for ALL decedents where the disease, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death, i.e. COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death”. Such an example would be someone who has developed pneumonia as a result of COVID-19, dies from acute respiratory distress. Alternatively, COVID-19 may be present on the death certificate as a significant condition contributing to death but not the underlying cause.
Bjornulf
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: December 29, 2020 16:04
Covid-19 is typically a multi-organ failure disease. It will attack your body, it will result in lungs and respiratory system collapse, and it will attack any weakness you might have. This is why some times young people die from covid-19, even if they are said to have no underlying conditions. Well, young people do not always have a complete health check. They may have some unknown weakness, they may live with that weakness for many many years, but covid-19 will attack that weakness and make a fatal outcome.
Compare to a fatal car crash. Your entire body will collapse. You might die from heart failure or pneumonia or other organ failure, but the real reason for the fatality is the car crash. Without that car crash, you might have a long normal life.
It is time to stop twisting statistics. Please do not quote false news sites making their own stories saying covid-19 is just like the flu. It is not. The world is currently fighting off the worst pandemic in one hundred years, since 1918. We will be able to fight the pandemic for sure, but false information is not making anything better, just worse.
Bjornulf
Compare to a fatal car crash. Your entire body will collapse. You might die from heart failure or pneumonia or other organ failure, but the real reason for the fatality is the car crash. Without that car crash, you might have a long normal life.
It is time to stop twisting statistics. Please do not quote false news sites making their own stories saying covid-19 is just like the flu. It is not. The world is currently fighting off the worst pandemic in one hundred years, since 1918. We will be able to fight the pandemic for sure, but false information is not making anything better, just worse.
Bjornulf
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: December 29, 2020 16:09
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 16:11 by stone4ever.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 16:11 by stone4ever.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: December 29, 2020 16:37
Quote
Beast
Those in favour of no lockdown often pointed to Sweden as the model of success to emulate. But now Sweden is on the verge of introducing a (temporary) pandemic law giving more lockdown powers, so someone somewhere has changed their mind about the virtues of that model or was this also partly prompted by the King's recent comments? It would be interesting to hear from any Swedes on here who can enlighten us.
It is interesting to observe the five Nordic countries Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, and how their politics and actions related to the corona pandemic have been working. In a year or two from now, scientists and researchers will tell us what was right, what was wrong, and what we should learn from this. Meanwhile, these are some personal thoughts and observations, as seen from my side, living in Norway.
The Nordic countries are all very similar. We have a strong public health system. If you get sick, the state hospitals will take care of you, with excellent skilled doctors and nurses, at no cost, except for a very small fee like $10 or so. We have been on the top ten list of countries in the world where people feel safe and happy, due to social security. We trust the governments, we trust our politicians, and we trust our health authorities.
Sweden have been running a more relaxed attitude vs the corona virus than the other Nordic countries. Anders Tegnell is the current state epidemiologist of Sweden. He is just as popular in Sweden, as Anthony Fauchi is popular in USA. Example of his popularity: The man with the epidemiologist tattoo - a very Swedish tribute.
In Australia you may get a fine of AUS $20,000 for breaking the corona laws. In Norway, you get a fine of US $2,000 for the same. In Sweden, there is no law to be broken, they planned to make a law by March 2021, but now they try to do it faster. Some people will never follow any advice or recommendation until there is a law, and a hefty fine to be paid if you break the law.
One of my brothers have a summer cabin in the Skåne area, south of Sweden. Every time he visit his cabin, he have to stay in a ten days quarantine when coming home to Norway, so naturally he haven't been there many times since March 12 this year. Still, when he go there, he is surprised how people in Sweden act vs the corona virus. They do not wear masks, they do not keep the same distances we have in Norway, and they are now blod red by the covid-19 numbers, ten times more people in hospital, ten times more deaths, by the million people in the population, and their prime minister Stefan Löfven is now a lot more active in press conferences, and in taking control of the situation.
I have many friends in Sweden. I would not say anything bad about my friends or our neighbor country. I wish them the best. There are different ways of handling a problem. I just hope they will find a good and safe way of fighting the pandemic.
Reference:
Coronaviruset: Här är de senaste siffrorna (Aftonbladet - latest corona virus numbers in Sweden)
Bjornulf
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 29, 2020 16:37
Quote
Beast
Those in favour of no lockdown often pointed to Sweden as the model of success to emulate. But now Sweden is on the verge of introducing a (temporary) pandemic law giving more lockdown powers, so someone somewhere has changed their mind about the virtues of that model or was this also partly prompted by the King's recent comments? It would be interesting to hear from any Swedes on here who can enlighten us.
I'm only partly Swede, but I gotta say that Sweden handled this pandemic in a disastrous manner - from the neglecting of the elderly in the beginning, through irresponsible behaviour, a naive goal about getting herd immunity in Stockholm in May, and way too few restrictions and actions to avoid spreading the virus.
The numbers of deceased and infected are horrifying for such a small country.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
kovach
()
Date: December 29, 2020 16:46
Quote
daspyknowsQuote
MingSubuQuote
Green LadyQuote
stone4ever
Sorry but I think it's ridiculous to lock down countries and cause millions to lose jobs and businesses when all that was needed was to protect the old and the sick from the virus, the cure to this virus is causing more harm than the virus.
And the powers that be will not let this go away, this is too good an opportunity to implement control over us.
MisterDDDD I hope for all our sakes I'm batshit crazy because this year is George Orwells 1984 on steroids.
My friend in her 70s, currently on a Covid ward after collapsing at home, would no doubt count as one of your "old and sick". How would you have protected her from the son and daughter she lives with, both of whom still need to go out to work and earn their living? All three currently have the virus: one symptom free, one ill, one very ill.
The son and daughter are to blame. If they really needed to work, they should have stayed in a hotel.
Wow, and who pays for that hotel? Hotels by me are only available to essential workers in town visiting /quarantining.
And staying in one for a couple weeks might be like a 2nd house payment.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: December 29, 2020 17:08
Interesting studying the data from the different states over the last few months.
Numbers will undoubtably rise in a few weeks across all states with all the traveling and socializing done over the holidays.
Here in Washington state, people for the most part have been following the guidelines and mandates, and it has paid off in lower numbers than most.
I think the fact that we were the first epicenter in the US actually helped in terms of people taking it a bit more seriously. That, and excellent state and local governments that have responded well.
Washington has one of the lowest COVID-19 spreads in US
Washington, once the epicenter of the pandemic, had the fourth-lowest rate of average daily COVID-19 cases in the country as of Sunday, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The only states to report lower average daily cases per 100,000 over the past week are Oregon, Vermont and Hawaii. Puerto Rico also had a lower rate.
Washington sat at 26.5 cases per 100,000, while the top state, Tennessee, sat at 119.7 cases per 100,000. Until numbers updated Sunday afternoon, California had the highest rate of cases per 100,000 over the past seven days. California had been experiencing significant surges during December and had a crisis over dwindling numbers of ICU beds.
[www.seattlepi.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 17:31 by MisterDDDD.
Numbers will undoubtably rise in a few weeks across all states with all the traveling and socializing done over the holidays.
Here in Washington state, people for the most part have been following the guidelines and mandates, and it has paid off in lower numbers than most.
I think the fact that we were the first epicenter in the US actually helped in terms of people taking it a bit more seriously. That, and excellent state and local governments that have responded well.
Washington has one of the lowest COVID-19 spreads in US
Washington, once the epicenter of the pandemic, had the fourth-lowest rate of average daily COVID-19 cases in the country as of Sunday, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The only states to report lower average daily cases per 100,000 over the past week are Oregon, Vermont and Hawaii. Puerto Rico also had a lower rate.
Washington sat at 26.5 cases per 100,000, while the top state, Tennessee, sat at 119.7 cases per 100,000. Until numbers updated Sunday afternoon, California had the highest rate of cases per 100,000 over the past seven days. California had been experiencing significant surges during December and had a crisis over dwindling numbers of ICU beds.
[www.seattlepi.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-29 17:31 by MisterDDDD.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: December 29, 2020 17:13
Quote
NICOSQuote
daspyknows
I just find it interesting that those who blame the media are more likely to be Covid deniers and/or anti vaxxers. Why is that?
Don't count me in(*) ........but those think it's just an ordinary flew.
(*) I'm not an expert and I actually I don't know nothing about this virus only what I read and hear and sometimes that makes me wander.....I guess within a few years we will know what it is or was.............
Daspyknows, I think your remark is a bit blunt, but never mind. A couple of mails earlier I mentioned that current communication is chaotic in a sense that Facebook and the likes (also part of the media, right?) have a very negative impact on people in terms of unbiased information coming to them. Its not about blaming the media in general, but "in specific". Too many people prefer to use popular media sources which don't care about filtering out nonsence. One can blame the media objectively or subjectively. Objective people are not Civid-19 and/or vaccination deniers. It's the jubjective people who use a "useful" part (for them) of the media to support their anti Covid-19/vaccination attitude.
Adding things up to me the total sum of what the media say = chaos.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: December 29, 2020 17:50
Do not trust vaccine deniers, even if they are "leaders":
Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro bizarrely suggests COVID-19 vaccines could turn people into crocodiles or bearded ladies (business Insider)
Bjornulf
Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro bizarrely suggests COVID-19 vaccines could turn people into crocodiles or bearded ladies (business Insider)
Bjornulf
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: December 29, 2020 18:16
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MAF
()
Date: December 29, 2020 19:09
Exactly!Quote
bv
Do not trust vaccine deniers, even if they are "leaders":
Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro bizarrely suggests COVID-19 vaccines could turn people into crocodiles or bearded ladies (business Insider)
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 29, 2020 19:28
Quote
MisterDDDD
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: December 29, 2020 21:24
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MisterDDDD
__________________________
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: December 29, 2020 21:42
I used to eat cookies, but now my cookies are watching me.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
IrelandCalling4
()
Date: December 29, 2020 21:52
The incomprehensible part, at least in Ireland, is the unquestioned, seemingly infallible nature of how cases are collated. No questions, analysis, or debate, is allowed and altering viewpoints are not aired on RTE/TV3. The case numbers are collated purely as a result of the RT-PCR test. Our Deputy Leader, Leo Varadkar (a doctor), tweeted (in his capacity as a doctor) that restrictions cannot be based upon the PCR tests - retrictive measures should only be based upon ICU admittances and deaths. This has been completely disregarded, is not brought up by the press or the Government, as the latest restrictions come when ICU admittances and deaths are miniscule.
This is the aspect I do not understand, why analysing or questioning is discouraged. One of our leading medics, Dr. Martin Feeley, former Clinical Head of Dublin/Monaghan Hospital Group, was sacked from his position after going on TV (the only guest in 6 months on the flagship investigative new show Prime Time to offer a differing view). Among other points, he asked for those in society losing their jobs, their business's, their livelihoods, and their lives (as secondary deaths in this country are thought to be a multiple of the deaths attributed to covid 19), do they also not deserve the respect of having these figures properly analysed? This is a first in our country, and possibly internationally - figures utilised to shut down society, which will have devastating effects, are not debated or analysed. They are accepted as an absolute with no chance at all that they may be incorrect, whether partially or substantially.
The British Medical Journal of the 21st Dec (this is a highly respected publication not given to sensationalism or unconsidered writing) calls into question, or at least points to analysis required, on the validity of the RT-PCR test. That report is worth reading in full, Part IV in full:
"It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use. As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious"
- Again, I am simply stating why, if there is doubt on the validity of this test, is it deemed off-limits and its results accepted without question.
I cannot speak for other countries, as I do not know the level of cases 'diagnosed' from this RT-PCR test, I can only speak for this country. I agree with social distancing, I wear the mask, we take additional care around the members of my family in the most at-risk category. But universal lockdows, in this country anyway, is wrong.
ICU admittances, 155 in March when Ireland was not ready for covid 19. Deaths and admittances plumetted to almost zero in late April, and from May to December have not risen in any proportion. This is why so many doctors on twitter are asking how continual lockdown (following a short period of re-opening) can be justified as those policies are not based upon ICU or deaths, they are based entitrely and wholly upon test results from a test that may or may not be correct. Surely analysing this is a fair question when the result is universal.
NPHET (Public Health advisory board) have risen to policy makers in effect, even subverting the Government by leaking information. They admitted to the Cabinet Committee in September that of the 1,700 listed as covid deaths, all had co-morbities, and crucially, that covid may or may not be a predominant or even influencing factor in death. That of course is a crucial difference. But that difference was not reported nor discussed on mainstream TV or print media.
The Central Stats Office figures prove that Ireland had a virtual zero covid from May-September. Average weekly death rate in Ireland is 650 per week (30,000 per year). Average death rate from people with covid 19 was 1.2 per week. ICU admittances fell dramatically in April, and have fluctuated between 15-45 every month since, with most months being 25-35. It was 155 in March. Total ICU capacity is 297, with an additional 100 ICU beds available if needs be. With 1.2 deaths on average, the CSO figures show that suicide rate in every month May-September was approximately 4 times that of covid 19 related deaths. Yet we had daily apocalyptic news briefings, lockdowns..etc. One of the doctors who spoke out with these facts, was sacked from his position as Head of ShannonDoc facility here in the West.
My neighbour is a Manager at the largest hospital in this region, and has said the hospital has been at full capacity every year except for2020. The 99k cancelled Cervical checks, the tens of thousands of cancelled cancer checks, the tens of thousands of postponed treatments for cancer, lung/heart/liver and respiratory diseases, will lead to secondary deaths far in excess of covid 19.
The CSO figures in black and white display covid 19 as minimal since May, but this has not or will not be discussed or detailed on any mainstream platform. The RT-PCR test, declared by the Lisbon Court of Appeal on 11/11 as illegal to order someone to quarantine if it has a cycle threshold (CT) value of above 30. To my knowledge the only European Court to do so.
Is it not worth asking the question; as Dr. Feeley did here and as NPHET were asked by the Cabinet Committee - why are we not mandating CT results with these positive results, as the higher the CT the more arguable, ambiguous, and potentially incorrect the result is. Our best friends here lost their business last month, and are probably going to lose their home, they submitted an FOI request to the HSE to declare what the CT value is for all tests, and why the CT value is not being made known. IF a large enough percentage of 'cases' positive have a CT of 40-45 those results are possibly meaningless and they are not infectious nor carrying active, replicating virus.
Family members are in the at-risk category, but they feel the suppression of any questioning, or any meaningful analysis of these figures, which are being used wholly to implements lockdown's, is wrong. We take the additional care measures, social distance, wear masks, but what is happening here - universal lockdown, censorship, supression of altering views or thoughts - even they feel is wrong. Questioning surely will add more understanding to the actual figures, and whether they are right, or whether they are wrong, and to what degree.
This is the aspect I do not understand, why analysing or questioning is discouraged. One of our leading medics, Dr. Martin Feeley, former Clinical Head of Dublin/Monaghan Hospital Group, was sacked from his position after going on TV (the only guest in 6 months on the flagship investigative new show Prime Time to offer a differing view). Among other points, he asked for those in society losing their jobs, their business's, their livelihoods, and their lives (as secondary deaths in this country are thought to be a multiple of the deaths attributed to covid 19), do they also not deserve the respect of having these figures properly analysed? This is a first in our country, and possibly internationally - figures utilised to shut down society, which will have devastating effects, are not debated or analysed. They are accepted as an absolute with no chance at all that they may be incorrect, whether partially or substantially.
The British Medical Journal of the 21st Dec (this is a highly respected publication not given to sensationalism or unconsidered writing) calls into question, or at least points to analysis required, on the validity of the RT-PCR test. That report is worth reading in full, Part IV in full:
"It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use. As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious"
- Again, I am simply stating why, if there is doubt on the validity of this test, is it deemed off-limits and its results accepted without question.
I cannot speak for other countries, as I do not know the level of cases 'diagnosed' from this RT-PCR test, I can only speak for this country. I agree with social distancing, I wear the mask, we take additional care around the members of my family in the most at-risk category. But universal lockdows, in this country anyway, is wrong.
ICU admittances, 155 in March when Ireland was not ready for covid 19. Deaths and admittances plumetted to almost zero in late April, and from May to December have not risen in any proportion. This is why so many doctors on twitter are asking how continual lockdown (following a short period of re-opening) can be justified as those policies are not based upon ICU or deaths, they are based entitrely and wholly upon test results from a test that may or may not be correct. Surely analysing this is a fair question when the result is universal.
NPHET (Public Health advisory board) have risen to policy makers in effect, even subverting the Government by leaking information. They admitted to the Cabinet Committee in September that of the 1,700 listed as covid deaths, all had co-morbities, and crucially, that covid may or may not be a predominant or even influencing factor in death. That of course is a crucial difference. But that difference was not reported nor discussed on mainstream TV or print media.
The Central Stats Office figures prove that Ireland had a virtual zero covid from May-September. Average weekly death rate in Ireland is 650 per week (30,000 per year). Average death rate from people with covid 19 was 1.2 per week. ICU admittances fell dramatically in April, and have fluctuated between 15-45 every month since, with most months being 25-35. It was 155 in March. Total ICU capacity is 297, with an additional 100 ICU beds available if needs be. With 1.2 deaths on average, the CSO figures show that suicide rate in every month May-September was approximately 4 times that of covid 19 related deaths. Yet we had daily apocalyptic news briefings, lockdowns..etc. One of the doctors who spoke out with these facts, was sacked from his position as Head of ShannonDoc facility here in the West.
My neighbour is a Manager at the largest hospital in this region, and has said the hospital has been at full capacity every year except for2020. The 99k cancelled Cervical checks, the tens of thousands of cancelled cancer checks, the tens of thousands of postponed treatments for cancer, lung/heart/liver and respiratory diseases, will lead to secondary deaths far in excess of covid 19.
The CSO figures in black and white display covid 19 as minimal since May, but this has not or will not be discussed or detailed on any mainstream platform. The RT-PCR test, declared by the Lisbon Court of Appeal on 11/11 as illegal to order someone to quarantine if it has a cycle threshold (CT) value of above 30. To my knowledge the only European Court to do so.
Is it not worth asking the question; as Dr. Feeley did here and as NPHET were asked by the Cabinet Committee - why are we not mandating CT results with these positive results, as the higher the CT the more arguable, ambiguous, and potentially incorrect the result is. Our best friends here lost their business last month, and are probably going to lose their home, they submitted an FOI request to the HSE to declare what the CT value is for all tests, and why the CT value is not being made known. IF a large enough percentage of 'cases' positive have a CT of 40-45 those results are possibly meaningless and they are not infectious nor carrying active, replicating virus.
Family members are in the at-risk category, but they feel the suppression of any questioning, or any meaningful analysis of these figures, which are being used wholly to implements lockdown's, is wrong. We take the additional care measures, social distance, wear masks, but what is happening here - universal lockdown, censorship, supression of altering views or thoughts - even they feel is wrong. Questioning surely will add more understanding to the actual figures, and whether they are right, or whether they are wrong, and to what degree.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
daspyknows
()
Date: December 29, 2020 22:06
^ Look at the US for your answer. As someone over here I would gladly trade our situations. Consider your country lucky.
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