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JadedFaded

The Pfizer vaccine requires minus 70 degrees Celsius. That is WAY colder than ice cream is stored. Very specialized freezers are needed for that low of a temperature.

Indeed. In a real world that would pretty much exclude it from significant consideration because that's frankly impractical large scale.

Of course it probably is OK for big central distribution points (major hospitals), but it ain't going to be easy to deal with in for example Aged Care facilities.

Not just my view, but I heard an interview on the radio this morning with the person in the UK charged with making the priority rules. Aged Care (and staff therein) very high up list, but he mentioned that practicality problem.

I predict that once more realistic vaccines come along (Moderna needs standard freezer temperatures, Oxford needs standard fridge temperatures) this expensive ($45 per dose) vaccine will be history.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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JadedFaded

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MileHigh
First of all, we already have a "cold chain" for the delivery of products like ice cream. Governments can commandeer those resources for the distribution of the vaccine. We can all do without ice cream for three months.

The Pfizer vaccine requires minus 70 degrees Celsius. That is WAY colder than ice cream is stored. Very specialized freezers are needed for that low of a temperature.

158° fahrenheit!!!!! Holy crap.

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steffialicia

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Big Al

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bv
It is hard to work from home if you are a bus driver, a taxi driver, a nurse or a doctor, or if you work in a low-paid factory meat line supplying cheap meat to the consumers. The pandemic is highly unfair when it comes to who is able to escape from it, and who is taking the toll.

I attended my place-of-work throughout lockdown. I do not want to work from home. I wouldn’t wish to work from home, even I were paid twice the rate.

And it's all about what you want, right Big Al? You're the poster child.

No, it absolutely isn’t. I genuinely recognise the risk the virus can potentially pose to the vulnerable. As I keep repeating: wearing a face-covering and social-distancing is fine if it is what we need to do. I just do not believe another lockdown is necessary in the U.K. The ramifications for people’s livelihoods is too immense. All we can reasonably do, is to take the necessary precautions as outlined: keep two meters - when not in you’re ‘bubble’ - and wear a covering when legally obliged.

No, I definitely do not want to work from home. That’s not entirely. Covid-issue, however.

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LeonidP

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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Big Al
Captain Corella: businesses have to survive and people need to go about their daily lives. The nation is sick of Covid-19 and, quite frankly, ludicrous 'tier systems' I'm all for social-distancing and wearing a facial-covering, but that should be it. We need to live. Those who are petrified are welcome to stay in their bunker until there's a vaccine and Covid-19 is under control. That's their choice.

Stupidity like this is why countries like the US and UK are not like Australia and New Zealand. The most ridiculous part of this statement is highlighted. There are many essential (sacrificial) workers who do not have the option of staying home in their bunker while Covidiots are out infecting them.

Hurling insults rarely works to convince people to listen to you.

generally, it has the opposite effect.

just saying.

It seems to be the only way he can argue. As stated before, there can't be a debate if he's just going to act like a little kid.

Well, some cannot debate without hurling insults, unfortunately. I have respect for my fellow posters; I just don’t always agree. The UK’s tier system is genuinely confusing and controversial. I am not a covid-denier and nor do I feel we should just go back to a complete normality: face-coverings will be with us for a while. I just don’t believe another shutdown is necessary.

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LeonidP

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daspyknows
Most of us do and others are trying to be Darwin award candidates. Following all 3 precautions is no guarantee one avoids the virus but disregarding it is like playing Russian roulette. Very glad to read your level headed postings about it, now if everyone will listen.

Your math is a bit off, w/ Russian roulette, you have typically 1 in 6 chances of dying.

I don't support hurling insults but what a way to pick your battles

Current World Sick Map

[www.arcgis.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-08 12:46 by Chris Fountain.

Covid-19 vaccine: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK (BBC)

A 90-year-old woman has become the first person to be given a Covid jab as part of the mass vaccination programme being rolled out across the UK.

Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present".

She was given the injection at 06:31 GMT - the first of 800,000 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that will be given in the coming weeks.

Up to four million more are expected by the end of the month.



Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-08 10:34 by bv.

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bv
Covid-19 vaccine: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK (BBC)

A 90-year-old woman has become the first person to be given a Covid jab as part of the mass vaccination programme being rolled out across the UK.

Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present".

She was given the injection at 06:31 GMT - the first of 800,000 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that will be given in the coming weeks.

Up to four million more are expected by the end of the month.

A picture that brings hope. Great!

Yes! I have been watching BBC News this morning and this very good news with the vaccine program in UK now very much underway.
Don't know how the UK were first to get the vaccine but I guess that they put their order in as soon as they heard about it.
A lot of credit for it must go to our top medical staff like Professor Van Tham and others who really have the final say when advising the UK government.

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Nate

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MisterDDDD
This breaking news isn't going to help.

Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. more vaccine doses.

"Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. government additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. Now Pfizer may not be able provide more of its vaccine to the United States until next June because of its commitments to other countries, they said."
[www.nytimes.com]

It’s amazing how these evil @#$%& end up in the halls of power they should be nowhere else but on the fringes of society.

Nate

Yeah...this looks bad NOW....but Monday Morning Quarterbacking is the easiest thing in the world to do (for non-Gringo-English speakers, "Monday Morning QB-ing" is the whole "hindsight is 20-20" thing).

This was all pre-testing and pre-90% efficiency rate and all of that....in other words, the purchase order in "late summer" was for a product that the entire world and every "expert" was unsure if it would even work....

a cautious approach was justified at that point....it's a new virus we still don't fully understand and a vaccine we understood even less (at that time)....

If he had bought them in "late summer" and it turned out the vaccine didn't work or was only 20% effective....or another vaccine came out that was far cheaper....or, or, or, or.....they'd be grumping about what a fool he was to buy it without knowing what he was buying....

OR...if the US bought up all the vaccine, he'd be called a "racist-imperialist" (or something) for putting Americans first and not "sharing" w/ the rest of the world....

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crawdaddy
Yes! I have been watching BBC News this morning and this very good news with the vaccine program in UK now very much underway.
Don't know how the UK were first to get the vaccine but I guess that they put their order in as soon as they heard about it.
A lot of credit for it must go to our top medical staff like Professor Van Tham and others who really have the final say when advising the UK government.

Professor Jonathon Van Tam, commonly known as JVT did a radio phone in show on BBC 5 live last week. The lines went into meltdown. His honest plain speaking style and sporting metaphors about scoring penalties etc have made him a huge hit with the public.

Prof JVT was just great on that phone in! With that on top of his earlier "mum test" comment, he effortlessly endeared himself even more to the public - including kids after he assured them that Santa was absolutely first in line for the vaccine! He's so down to earth and must surely be everyone's favourite public health figure.

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Beast
Prof JVT was just great on that phone in! With that on top of his earlier "mum test" comment, he effortlessly endeared himself even more to the public - including kids after he assured them that Santa was absolutely first in line for the vaccine! He's so down to earth and must surely be everyone's favourite public health figure.

Don’t really watch tv so I don’t know this guy I’m sure he’s great but my favourite public health figure has always been and will always be Keith ><

Nate

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stickyfingers101

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Nate

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MisterDDDD
This breaking news isn't going to help.

Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. more vaccine doses.

"Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. government additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. Now Pfizer may not be able provide more of its vaccine to the United States until next June because of its commitments to other countries, they said."
[www.nytimes.com]

It’s amazing how these evil @#$%& end up in the halls of power they should be nowhere else but on the fringes of society.

Nate

Yeah...this looks bad NOW....but Monday Morning Quarterbacking is the easiest thing in the world to do (for non-Gringo-English speakers, "Monday Morning QB-ing" is the whole "hindsight is 20-20" thing).

This was all pre-testing and pre-90% efficiency rate and all of that....in other words, the purchase order in "late summer" was for a product that the entire world and every "expert" was unsure if it would even work....

a cautious approach was justified at that point....it's a new virus we still don't fully understand and a vaccine we understood even less (at that time)....

If he had bought them in "late summer" and it turned out the vaccine didn't work or was only 20% effective....or another vaccine came out that was far cheaper....or, or, or, or.....they'd be grumping about what a fool he was to buy it without knowing what he was buying....

OR...if the US bought up all the vaccine, he'd be called a "racist-imperialist" (or something) for putting Americans first and not "sharing" w/ the rest of the world....

Yeah I’m sure most Americans are very grateful that their government didn’t waste money on a potential vaccine that could have saved many lives much better to spend it on bleach or vote recounts.

Nate

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crawdaddy
Yes! I have been watching BBC News this morning and this very good news with the vaccine program in UK now very much underway.
Don't know how the UK were first to get the vaccine but I guess that they put their order in as soon as they heard about it.
A lot of credit for it must go to our top medical staff like Professor Van Tham and others who really have the final say when advising the UK government.

Because it's 8 hours ahead of the US? It's not full of covidiots? The food is bad? There must be some explanation!

So great to see!
Those applauding her on her way out represent all of us.


photo-Jacob King/Pool via REUTERS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-08 16:33 by MisterDDDD.

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Nikkei

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LeonidP

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daspyknows
Most of us do and others are trying to be Darwin award candidates. Following all 3 precautions is no guarantee one avoids the virus but disregarding it is like playing Russian roulette. Very glad to read your level headed postings about it, now if everyone will listen.

Your math is a bit off, w/ Russian roulette, you have typically 1 in 6 chances of dying.

I don't support hurling insults but what a way to pick your battles

The purpose was two-fold, if you haven't followed us - he only responds to differing opinions w/ an insult for one (trump mentality, btw, which I am sure he's oblivious to), so I replied similarly. And the other is he accused me of twisting things around to support my POV, something he basically did here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-08 16:42 by LeonidP.

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GasLightStreet

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crawdaddy
Yes! I have been watching BBC News this morning and this very good news with the vaccine program in UK now very much underway.
Don't know how the UK were first to get the vaccine but I guess that they put their order in as soon as they heard about it.
A lot of credit for it must go to our top medical staff like Professor Van Tham and others who really have the final say when advising the UK government.

Because it's 8 hours ahead of the US? It's not full of covidiots? The food is bad? There must be some explanation!

Boris ordered next day delivery with amazon prime.

Nate

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Big Al

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LeonidP

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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Big Al
Captain Corella: businesses have to survive and people need to go about their daily lives. The nation is sick of Covid-19 and, quite frankly, ludicrous 'tier systems' I'm all for social-distancing and wearing a facial-covering, but that should be it. We need to live. Those who are petrified are welcome to stay in their bunker until there's a vaccine and Covid-19 is under control. That's their choice.

Stupidity like this is why countries like the US and UK are not like Australia and New Zealand. The most ridiculous part of this statement is highlighted. There are many essential (sacrificial) workers who do not have the option of staying home in their bunker while Covidiots are out infecting them.

Hurling insults rarely works to convince people to listen to you.

generally, it has the opposite effect.

just saying.

It seems to be the only way he can argue. As stated before, there can't be a debate if he's just going to act like a little kid.

Well, some cannot debate without hurling insults, unfortunately. I have respect for my fellow posters; I just don’t always agree. The UK’s tier system is genuinely confusing and controversial. I am not a covid-denier and nor do I feel we should just go back to a complete normality: face-coverings will be with us for a while. I just don’t believe another shutdown is necessary.

Shutdown is not necessary, I don't feel either. Safety precautions are great, wear the masks, practice social distancing, etc. but you can't cripple the economy.

I have a friend that owns a bar/restaurant who told me he was definitely going to have to shut down. Then he got some stimulus of some sort, $150,000! Which he said likely he will not have to pay back. I said "great" to him, but I am thinking to myself "jesus, how many bars are in my state and/or country getting similar? How many billions (trillion?) will this cost? Where is that money coming from? Our taxes I guess.

This is probably the best news day I can remember for a long,long time here in the UK and potentially throughout the world.

It's not gonna be an overnight sensation and only time will tell how it will go here in UK and around the world once other countries get this vaccine or any of the other ones,once the medical people give their approval.

Yes! Prof. JVT is a very trusted man in UK and he has a great way of making thing's clear and concise.
I also have a lot of respect for Dr Fauci from the USA who must have a very hard job with Mr Trump as his boss.
He was very apologetic for some of his comments about UK having the vaccine and stuff to do with approval etc.
So glad that President elect Joe Biden is keeping him on and I'm sure they will get on really well.

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Nate

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GasLightStreet

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crawdaddy
Yes! I have been watching BBC News this morning and this very good news with the vaccine program in UK now very much underway.
Don't know how the UK were first to get the vaccine but I guess that they put their order in as soon as they heard about it.
A lot of credit for it must go to our top medical staff like Professor Van Tham and others who really have the final say when advising the UK government.

Because it's 8 hours ahead of the US? It's not full of covidiots? The food is bad? There must be some explanation!

Boris ordered next day delivery with amazon prime.

Nate

Boris spread the UK's bets and ordered some of anything that looked promising.

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Nate

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stickyfingers101

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Nate

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MisterDDDD
This breaking news isn't going to help.

Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. more vaccine doses.

"Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. government additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. Now Pfizer may not be able provide more of its vaccine to the United States until next June because of its commitments to other countries, they said."
[www.nytimes.com]

It’s amazing how these evil @#$%& end up in the halls of power they should be nowhere else but on the fringes of society.

Nate

Yeah...this looks bad NOW....but Monday Morning Quarterbacking is the easiest thing in the world to do (for non-Gringo-English speakers, "Monday Morning QB-ing" is the whole "hindsight is 20-20" thing).

This was all pre-testing and pre-90% efficiency rate and all of that....in other words, the purchase order in "late summer" was for a product that the entire world and every "expert" was unsure if it would even work....

a cautious approach was justified at that point....it's a new virus we still don't fully understand and a vaccine we understood even less (at that time)....

If he had bought them in "late summer" and it turned out the vaccine didn't work or was only 20% effective....or another vaccine came out that was far cheaper....or, or, or, or.....they'd be grumping about what a fool he was to buy it without knowing what he was buying....

OR...if the US bought up all the vaccine, he'd be called a "racist-imperialist" (or something) for putting Americans first and not "sharing" w/ the rest of the world....

Yeah I’m sure most Americans are very grateful that their government didn’t waste money on a potential vaccine that could have saved many lives much better to spend it on bleach or vote recounts.

Nate

Wasting money is a national pastime for the gov't....agreed....so, sure...why not take a chance of wasting it on this?

I understand your point and see the logic....

However, when it comes to medical science, exercising caution in the face of uncertainty is completely understandable....especially when there are multiple companies working on vaccines at the same time....you don't go "all in" on ONE company's (Pfizer) un-tested vaccine in that scenario...

it turned out to be the wrong decision, which is frustrating....yep. But, certainly understandable in the context in which it was made.

so, we have to put on our mask and exercise caution for a little longer....big deal....it's what poor people all over the world will have to do anyway....

Besides...it's not like he bought them and flushed them down the toilet...somebody somewhere will get those vaccines and for THAT we should ALL be happy....for HUMANITY!

Somebody else, somewhere in the world will get those vaccines...it's too bad they aren't American, but I'm not an "America First Nationalist" so I'd rather be happy for the 90-year-old grandma in Botswana who gets it than complain that I should've gotten it before her.

So...Merry Christmas World: Thanks to Trumpy-Dumpy, OTHER people will get the vaccine before some of us do!

YOU'RE WELCOME!!!

U-S-A!

U-S-A!

To hear him tell it, he essentially invented the vaccine.
Awkward given that he didn't even order enough and America (is not) First with it


Got plenty of this though.
US stockpile stuck with 63 million doses of hydroxychloroquine
[www.cnn.com]

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bv
Covid-19 vaccine: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK (BBC)

A 90-year-old woman has become the first person to be given a Covid jab as part of the mass vaccination programme being rolled out across the UK.

Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present".

She was given the injection at 06:31 GMT - the first of 800,000 doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that will be given in the coming weeks.

Up to four million more are expected by the end of the month.

Amazing...I see this pic almost in a similar way to the pic of Neil Armstrong's first step on the moon - "...one giant leap for mankind".
A historic day for sure.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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stickyfingers101

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Nate

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MisterDDDD
This breaking news isn't going to help.

Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. more vaccine doses.

"Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. government additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. Now Pfizer may not be able provide more of its vaccine to the United States until next June because of its commitments to other countries, they said."
[www.nytimes.com]

It’s amazing how these evil @#$%& end up in the halls of power they should be nowhere else but on the fringes of society.

Nate

Yeah...this looks bad NOW....but Monday Morning Quarterbacking is the easiest thing in the world to do (for non-Gringo-English speakers, "Monday Morning QB-ing" is the whole "hindsight is 20-20" thing).

This was all pre-testing and pre-90% efficiency rate and all of that....in other words, the purchase order in "late summer" was for a product that the entire world and every "expert" was unsure if it would even work....

a cautious approach was justified at that point....it's a new virus we still don't fully understand and a vaccine we understood even less (at that time)....

If he had bought them in "late summer" and it turned out the vaccine didn't work or was only 20% effective....or another vaccine came out that was far cheaper....or, or, or, or.....they'd be grumping about what a fool he was to buy it without knowing what he was buying....

OR...if the US bought up all the vaccine, he'd be called a "racist-imperialist" (or something) for putting Americans first and not "sharing" w/ the rest of the world....

yeah but i bet he got his shot

From German News, 8-Dec-2020:

"The Mainz-based company Biontech and its US partner Pfizer have cleared an important hurdle in the emergency approval of their corona vaccine in the USA. In a document now published, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not expressed any concerns about the use of the vaccine. No new safety or efficacy issues have been identified during the investigations.

A two-dose vaccination has proven to be highly effective in preventing confirmed cases of Covid-19 at least seven days after the last dose, the FDA officials said. However, there was not yet enough data to draw conclusions on the safety of the vaccine in people under 16 years of age, pregnant women and people with a weakened immune system. It is expected that the FDA will decide on the emergency approval of the Biontech vaccine within the next days or weeks.

The US pharmaceutical company Pfizer and its German partner Biontech want to make their coronavirus vaccine easier to handle. 'We are working on a new formulation that will be able to avoid minus 70 degrees Celsius and that can be stored with simple refrigeration,' said Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla at an online industry event. Until now, the vaccine has had to be stored at minus 70 degrees because it only lasts five days in normal refrigerators.

On Tuesday, Britain became the first Western country to start mass vaccination against the corona virus. The UK had granted emergency approval for the vaccine of the two companies in view of the worsening corona crisis. By 2021, 1.3 billion will be distributed worldwide."

[www.Tagesschau.de]

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LeonidP

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Big Al

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LeonidP

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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Big Al
Captain Corella: businesses have to survive and people need to go about their daily lives. The nation is sick of Covid-19 and, quite frankly, ludicrous 'tier systems' I'm all for social-distancing and wearing a facial-covering, but that should be it. We need to live. Those who are petrified are welcome to stay in their bunker until there's a vaccine and Covid-19 is under control. That's their choice.

Stupidity like this is why countries like the US and UK are not like Australia and New Zealand. The most ridiculous part of this statement is highlighted. There are many essential (sacrificial) workers who do not have the option of staying home in their bunker while Covidiots are out infecting them.

Hurling insults rarely works to convince people to listen to you.

generally, it has the opposite effect.

just saying.

It seems to be the only way he can argue. As stated before, there can't be a debate if he's just going to act like a little kid.

Well, some cannot debate without hurling insults, unfortunately. I have respect for my fellow posters; I just don’t always agree. The UK’s tier system is genuinely confusing and controversial. I am not a covid-denier and nor do I feel we should just go back to a complete normality: face-coverings will be with us for a while. I just don’t believe another shutdown is necessary.

Shutdown is not necessary, I don't feel either. Safety precautions are great, wear the masks, practice social distancing, etc. but you can't cripple the economy.

I have a friend that owns a bar/restaurant who told me he was definitely going to have to shut down. Then he got some stimulus of some sort, $150,000! Which he said likely he will not have to pay back. I said "great" to him, but I am thinking to myself "jesus, how many bars are in my state and/or country getting similar? How many billions (trillion?) will this cost? Where is that money coming from? Our taxes I guess.

So if everybody bites the dust , what will it matter as long as you don't cripple the economy ? There has to be safety in society versus just winging it .

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TheGreek

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LeonidP

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Big Al

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LeonidP

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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Big Al
Captain Corella: businesses have to survive and people need to go about their daily lives. The nation is sick of Covid-19 and, quite frankly, ludicrous 'tier systems' I'm all for social-distancing and wearing a facial-covering, but that should be it. We need to live. Those who are petrified are welcome to stay in their bunker until there's a vaccine and Covid-19 is under control. That's their choice.

Stupidity like this is why countries like the US and UK are not like Australia and New Zealand. The most ridiculous part of this statement is highlighted. There are many essential (sacrificial) workers who do not have the option of staying home in their bunker while Covidiots are out infecting them.

Hurling insults rarely works to convince people to listen to you.

generally, it has the opposite effect.

just saying.

It seems to be the only way he can argue. As stated before, there can't be a debate if he's just going to act like a little kid.

Well, some cannot debate without hurling insults, unfortunately. I have respect for my fellow posters; I just don’t always agree. The UK’s tier system is genuinely confusing and controversial. I am not a covid-denier and nor do I feel we should just go back to a complete normality: face-coverings will be with us for a while. I just don’t believe another shutdown is necessary.

Shutdown is not necessary, I don't feel either. Safety precautions are great, wear the masks, practice social distancing, etc. but you can't cripple the economy.

I have a friend that owns a bar/restaurant who told me he was definitely going to have to shut down. Then he got some stimulus of some sort, $150,000! Which he said likely he will not have to pay back. I said "great" to him, but I am thinking to myself "jesus, how many bars are in my state and/or country getting similar? How many billions (trillion?) will this cost? Where is that money coming from? Our taxes I guess.

So if everybody bites the dust , what will it matter as long as you don't cripple the economy ? There has to be safety in society versus just winging it .

I have not seen anyone who lost their job or business also say shutdowns were a good idea. Its always people who were not effected.

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LeonidP

Shutdown is not necessary, I don't feel either. Safety precautions are great, wear the masks, practice social distancing, etc. but you can't cripple the economy.

In Germany we have a partial lockdown 2-Nov-2020 until 10-Jan-2021. Wearing masks, social distancing, etc, wasn't sufficient. The infection rates are still high and the number of people dying from COVID-19 is rising. Now they're discussing even a temporary full lockdown from 24-Dec-2020 until 10-Jan-2021. A full lockdown would deal a devastating blow to the economy. The state would again have to move in with massive sums to prop up businesses small and large. New net borrowing for the current fiscal year has already reached nearly €160 billion ($190 billion.) For 2021, that figure is already set to rise. - [www.DW.com] .