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daspyknows
^ There is an idiot Covid denier on another site I am on who views the above picture as showing the US is flattening the curve and winning. Not sure I see that.

Things are bad in the US and in about 3 weeks it will be far worse as millions are traveling for Thanksgiving despite the warnings. I know many smart people who are traveling and justifying it in various ways. Unfortunately, some (many?) will regret their decision.

With vaccines coming soon there is no need to take the extra risk IMHO.

I've been following the USA situation for several months now and I'm with you that the current situation is very, very bad. What surprises me is that a worldometers link reports about 5-6000 more casualties than the New York Times. How come? I experienced Thanksgiving a couple of times while in the USA and I know it's a very big thing. And because it's such a big think, right now it's also a big time bomb. I'm really a lifelong optimist, so I hope my current pessimism means nothing. People should be thankful for the hard work vaccin researchers have done to made it possible to start vaccination soon, so forget that one time Thanksgiving ...
Europe in many countries is also in a messy state. People know, but among them many somehow don't want to know. It's like if they have the urge to escape from reality and act like living in a dream (which in fact is a nightmare).
Despite all kinds of measures in the Netherlands still the R factor is above 1.0 (before the summer it was below, so our government acted a bit too relaxed).
There is a lot of tension, because certain people are afraid that the government is going to "ruin" the Christmas season with more strict measures. They are so desperate that they don't see that instead they may ruin the lives of themselves, their loved ones and good friends forever. What's one Christmas in a lifetime? How many Christmasses do people actually really remember, looking back 20 or 30 years?
We have plenty of beer in the house ... I going to have one NOW

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kovach
Adding to the mask debate even more (not to take sides, as I'm still pro-mask, but interesting reading):

Masks in lab vs. community

It seems to be going around - policies rather than doing. Obviously the effectiveness of policies can only work if there are participants. Why that is so difficult - why would anyone want to get COVID?

So dumb.

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daspyknows
Wearing a mask to save lives is like wearing a seatbelt in a car or a helmet while riding a motorcycle. When the laws were implemented people complained about personal liberty. Examples of the science didn't matter to some. Once there were penalties, the adherence to the rules changed and now only a small subset complains and fights it. These people also are some refusing to wear masks. Common thread in this is stupidity and lack of self preservation.

Well written and thought out. Spot on.

Rod

From the graphs on worldometer, Norway's policies are working as the trend on cases is downward now. But the Norway overall case rates and death rates are so low as to be laughable compared to USA, or California (lower than USA), or even my own Ventura county (lower still than California).

Nick Saban Football Coach of Alabama has tested positive- it is everywhere.


No travelling here.

The situation is serious - so love and strength to you all. One can only hope that things will get better next year.

Some promising news, pending FDA emergency approval.

Covid vaccines start next month in Washington state. Regular shipments start at new year

The first people in Washington state will likely start getting Covid vaccines next month.

High-risk healthcare workers will be first in line. The state expects to receive about 60,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine in mid-December, as long as the FDA approves it for emergency use.

That’s enough for only a fraction of Washington’s health care workers.

The state expects to receive 200,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine by the end of December, and expects regular shipments to begin in January.

State officials say they’ll know in early December how many doses of the separate Moderna vaccine to expect, and when they’ll arrive – enough doses for 30,000 of the state’s health care workers, or about one in every eight health care workers in the state.

The Pfizer vaccine does need to be kept very cold (-94 degrees Fahrenheit), but Pfizer will ship the doses in a container that keeps them cold for about two weeks, so even facilities that don’t have ultra-cold storage capacity will be able to receive and administer vaccines.
[www.kuow.org]

Any idea why it's going to start in Washington and not, well, a state or states with the highest cases? California has the most cases in totality as well as the last seven days, with Texas quite close, at least as of right now.

I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think that article is saying the vaccine will start exclusively in Washington.
It's from a Washington based news source, so it's just stating the vaccines will start there next month, among other states.

From a Sacramento, California based news source published today: COVID Vaccine

"California is in the throes of another COVID-19 surge — cases are skyrocketing and hospital beds are filling up quickly.
On Tuesday, hospitals had 3,300 more COVID patients than at the beginning of this month, state health officials said.

But a glimmer of hope has emerged in the last leg of 2020: The first batch of vaccines could arrive in early December".

Followed by:

"Dr. Frances Collins, director at the National Institutes of Health, has said that if all goes to plan, he expects 40 million doses to become available nationwide in December.
Both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, which are first in line, require two doses, meaning 20 million people could be vaccinated that month. California gets just a slice of that.

Manufacturers and the federal government will likely distribute doses based on state conditions and population size, said Dr. Mark Ghaly, the state’s Health and Human Services Secretary.
“So California should get a significant and even the highest amount of vaccination based on those distribution plans,” he said Tuesday"'.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-26 05:47 by Hairball.

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Hairball
I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think that article is saying the vaccine will start exclusively in Washington.
It's from a Washington based news source, so it's just stating the vaccines will start there next month, among other states.

Ah. I hear all this stuff on the radio and it's gotten so diluted - oh it will be by the end of the year, oh the third week of December, oh it will be first responders in January, it won't be until March... but I haven't heard anything about where, so maybe that's why I read it that way, apparently nobody really knows yet and there's nothing but speculation with all kinds of possibilities, maybe just to take up air time and have it sound busy to get spirits up? I suppose that's realistic to figure.

Washington Post published a highly informative article on the vaccine procedures three days ago, on Nov 23:

What you need to know about the AstraZeneca, Moderna and Pfizer vaccines



The US government projects that Pfizer and Moderna will provide 40 million doses, enough for 20 million people, by the end of the year. AstraZeneca has said the first 4 million doses could be ready in December, and 40 million could be delivered in the first quarter of 2021.

The vaccines could begin to be distributed as soon as mid-December to those in high-risk groups — an estimated 200 million people in USA — who will receive priority, according to a framework devised by an advisory committee to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Government officials said that if both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are authorized, they anticipate having enough doses for 20 million people by year’s end.

Bjornulf

World Bank Approves $12 Billion for COVID-19 Vaccines (The World Bank Oct 13, 2020)

The World Bank’s Board of Executive Directors today approved an envelope of $12 billion for developing countries to finance the purchase and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, tests, and treatments for their citizens.

The financing, which aims to support vaccination of up to a billion people, is part of an overall World Bank Group (WBG) package of up to $160 billion through June 2021 to help developing countries fight the COVID-19 pandemic. It adds new financing to the World Bank’s COVID-19 emergency response programs that are already reaching 111 countries. This financing package helps signal to the research and pharmaceutical industry that citizens in developing countries also need access to safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines. It will also provide financing and technical support so that developing countries can prepare for deploying vaccines at scale, in coordination with international partners. In implementing the program, the World Bank will support multilateral efforts currently led by WHO and COVAX.

Bjornulf

Norway National Institute of Public Health: Hope to vaccinate everyone in Norway over the age of 65 during the spring of 2021.

The first Norwegians may get corona vaccine in January. But EU must approve it first. The elderly and other vulnerable will get the vaccine first.

Folkehelseinstituttet: Håper å vaksinere alle over 65 år i løpet av våren (Aftenposten Nov 23, 2020)

Bjornulf

I work nationally for the NHS in England - the scale of the vaccination plans here is staggering, looking to have 120,000 vaccinators recruited or redeployed and ready to vaccinate in early 2021.

Also interesting the cost of these things. Pfizer and Moderna about 20gbp per dose, Oxford/Zeneca is 3gbp.

England wise NHS is obviously free at the point of access but thought worth sharing the Oxford one is ‘not for profit’

Recovered infected Doctor says from experience that Covid-19 wants you to stop breathing!

Source: [www.msn.com]

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yorkshirestone
I work nationally for the NHS in England - the scale of the vaccination plans here is staggering, looking to have 120,000 vaccinators recruited or redeployed and ready to vaccinate in early 2021.

Also interesting the cost of these things. Pfizer and Moderna about 20gbp per dose, Oxford/Zeneca is 3gbp.

England wise NHS is obviously free at the point of access but thought worth sharing the Oxford one is ‘not for profit’

I work in the NHS and we were advised by CEO yesterday that vaccine (understood to be the Pfizer-BioNTech variant) would, provisionally, be available for all staff from Tuesday 02/12/20.

Pfizer News Release 18/11/20

Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - 06:59am
Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group
Efficacy was consistent across age, gender, race and ethnicity demographics; observed efficacy in adults over 65 years of age was over 94%
Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) has been achieved
Data demonstrate vaccine was well tolerated across all populations with over 43,000 participants enrolled; no serious safety concerns observed; the only Grade 3 adverse event greater than 2% in frequency was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0%
Companies plan to submit within days to the FDA for EUA and share data with other regulatory agencies around the globe
The companies expect to produce globally up to 50 million vaccine doses in 2020 and up to 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021
Pfizer is confident in its vast experience, expertise and existing cold-chain infrastructure to distribute the vaccine around the world

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Hairball
I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think that article is saying the vaccine will start exclusively in Washington.
It's from a Washington based news source, so it's just stating the vaccines will start there next month, among other states.

Nah.. a Washington news source is all. I'm sure each state has similar timelines.
Wasn't the point of posting the article, sorry if confusing.

Good news and something to look forward to



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-26 15:01 by MisterDDDD.

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Chris Fountain
Recovered infected Doctor says from experience that Covid-19 wants you to stop breathing!

Source: [www.msn.com]

From my personal experience I concur. I know a couple of people just coming through it and they also agree.

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GasLightStreet

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Hairball
I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think that article is saying the vaccine will start exclusively in Washington.
It's from a Washington based news source, so it's just stating the vaccines will start there next month, among other states.

Ah. I hear all this stuff on the radio and it's gotten so diluted - oh it will be by the end of the year, oh the third week of December, oh it will be first responders in January, it won't be until March... but I haven't heard anything about where, so maybe that's why I read it that way, apparently nobody really knows yet and there's nothing but speculation with all kinds of possibilities, maybe just to take up air time and have it sound busy to get spirits up? I suppose that's realistic to figure.

Yeah, lots of info. everywhere - some of it contradicting, and that headline was sort of a misleading/badly written, hence the confusion.
But again, this link clears it up: COVID Vaccine

"Manufacturers and the federal government will likely distribute doses based on state conditions and population size"

EDIT: And then according to this video, the Health Dept. says each state will then determine and prioritize their own distribution of the vaccine regarding who gets it first, etc. Coronavirus vaccine distribution

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-26 21:54 by Hairball.

Every state for themselves as it has been, until a National plan sometime after Jan 20th. no doubt.

The timeline the manufacturers put out is likely pretty precise, as all they're waiting for is the emergency FDA approval, which is expected.
Earliest that happens is Dec. 11th or 12th, and initial product rolls a day or two after that.

For the first approved vaccine Pfizer (needing extreme refrigeration) UPS has started implementing the infrastructure to handle.

UPS is making dry ice and supplying portable freezers for vaccine distribution

Federal officials announced this week distribution of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine could begin in mid-December.
The United Parcel Service (UPS) has established its own dry ice production in its U.S. facilities and will distribute ultra-cold temperature freezers to help in the distribution efforts for COVID-19 vaccines over the coming months.

Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar announced this week the distribution of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine could begin in mid-December pending emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
[thehill.com]

I hope the vaccines will be distributed fairly. Definitely doctors, nurses, EMTs, hospital orderlies, police, firefighters, paramedics, etc should be first. Then the vulnerable. Professional athletes should be last. It was so annoying professional athletes could get tested back when tests were impossible to get for regular people.

These three vaccines are very promising and I hope all goes well with approvals and distribution worldwide.

Various UK musicians (not Stones, so far) have donated guitars and memorabilia to an auction to help roadies and other staff thrown out if work by Covid restrictions:

[www.theguardian.com]

We all learned yesterday which English areas will be in which tier of restrictions for (probably) the rest of the winter, once the month's "firebreak" lockdown is over on 2nd December. Although the steep rise in cases is slowing down a bit, most places are still in the higher tiers, with a very few exceptions for remote or isolated areas.
The government has decided to allow a five day break to allow up to three households to get together for Christmas ( which is the big time for families to get together here, as we don't do Thanksgiving). Expect a big spike in infections three weeks down the line...

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Green Lady
Various UK musicians (not Stones, so far) have donated guitars and memorabilia to an auction to help roadies and other staff thrown out if work by Covid restrictions:

[www.theguardian.com]

We all learned yesterday which English areas will be in which tier of restrictions for (probably) the rest of the winter, once the month's "firebreak" lockdown is over on 2nd December. Although the steep rise in cases is slowing down a bit, most places are still in the higher tiers, with a very few exceptions for remote or isolated areas.
The government has decided to allow a five day break to allow up to three households to get together for Christmas ( which is the big time for families to get together here, as we don't do Thanksgiving). Expect a big spike in infections three weeks down the line...

The US will be a good example after Thanksgiving. I am afraid what it will be like by the end of the year here.

Ventured out to get a salad and a couple beers at my local pasta place last night, mask on, social distancing, plenty of hand sanitizer, "Scarlet" was playing on the background music system they had. Was a pleasant surprise.

I checked the current status of the USA (330 million) (325 million) with that of the five biggest West European countries (around about the same number of people in total).
The USA (wordometers) 270 thousand deaths, EU-5 225 thousand deaths (wordometers). The difference is mostly because Germany is doing relatively very well in comparison with the U.K. (1), Italy (2), France (3) and Spain (4). So basically it's disaster on both sides of the Atlantic.
Latin America is in a dreadful state as well with Brazil and Mexico way on top (together 280 thousands deaths on a total of 340 million people).
Asia (Japan, S-Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaisia, Filipines and Indonesia (around 640 million people or around twice as many as the above cases) have had a total of ..... 30 thousand casualties.
Facemasks, discipline, genes? Whatever, the difference with Europe and the Americas is shocking!

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georgie48
I checked the current status of the USA (330 million) (325 million) with that of the five biggest West European countries (around about the same number of people in total).
The USA (wordometers) 270 thousand deaths, EU-5 225 thousand deaths (wordometers). The difference is mostly because Germany is doing relatively very well in comparison with the U.K. (1), Italy (2), France (3) and Spain (4). So basically it's disaster on both sides of the Atlantic.
Latin America is in a dreadful state as well with Brazil and Mexico way on top (together 280 thousands deaths on a total of 340 million people).
Asia (Japan, S-Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaisia, Filipines and Indonesia (around 640 million people or around twice as many as the above cases) have had a total of ..... 30 thousand casualties.
Facemasks, discipline, genes? Whatever, the difference with Europe and the Americas is shocking!

Not genetics as Asian people dying like other races over here in the US. Masks, precautions and a lower percentage of stupid people crying about their liberty to be stupid. Death rates lower in Australia and New Zealand too.

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daspyknows

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georgie48
I checked the current status of the USA (330 million) (325 million) with that of the five biggest West European countries (around about the same number of people in total).
The USA (wordometers) 270 thousand deaths, EU-5 225 thousand deaths (wordometers). The difference is mostly because Germany is doing relatively very well in comparison with the U.K. (1), Italy (2), France (3) and Spain (4). So basically it's disaster on both sides of the Atlantic.
Latin America is in a dreadful state as well with Brazil and Mexico way on top (together 280 thousands deaths on a total of 340 million people).
Asia (Japan, S-Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaisia, Filipines and Indonesia (around 640 million people or around twice as many as the above cases) have had a total of ..... 30 thousand casualties.
Facemasks, discipline, genes? Whatever, the difference with Europe and the Americas is shocking!

Not genetics as Asian people dying like other races over here in the US. Masks, precautions and a lower percentage of stupid people crying about their liberty to be stupid. Death rates lower in Australia and New Zealand too.

I'm with you there all the way. In the past two decades I visited different Asian countries many time (during SARS in 2003 I was even in Beijing). The "western" individualism is the basis for lots of stupid thinking and acting indeed. It's tough to live in the middle of it ...

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georgie48

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daspyknows

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georgie48
I checked the current status of the USA (330 million) (325 million) with that of the five biggest West European countries (around about the same number of people in total).
The USA (wordometers) 270 thousand deaths, EU-5 225 thousand deaths (wordometers). The difference is mostly because Germany is doing relatively very well in comparison with the U.K. (1), Italy (2), France (3) and Spain (4). So basically it's disaster on both sides of the Atlantic.
Latin America is in a dreadful state as well with Brazil and Mexico way on top (together 280 thousands deaths on a total of 340 million people).
Asia (Japan, S-Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaisia, Filipines and Indonesia (around 640 million people or around twice as many as the above cases) have had a total of ..... 30 thousand casualties.
Facemasks, discipline, genes? Whatever, the difference with Europe and the Americas is shocking!

Not genetics as Asian people dying like other races over here in the US. Masks, precautions and a lower percentage of stupid people crying about their liberty to be stupid. Death rates lower in Australia and New Zealand too.

I'm with you there all the way. In the past two decades I visited different Asian countries many time (during SARS in 2003 I was even in Beijing). The "western" individualism is the basis for lots of stupid thinking and acting indeed. It's tough to live in the middle of it ...

What really blows my mind is the stupidity of many Americans who still

1. Insist its no worse than the flu after 265,000
2. Think it is OK to go out without a mask to protect others. I know many Americans are selfish f^cks but really?
3. Think the pandemic is a hoax even when infected.
4. Think a 2% death rate is not enough to change behavior.
5. Feel their right to do what they want is more important than public health. and equate getting groceries to going out for drinking at bars, going to packed concerts and other non essential activities.
6. Consider state and local governments are authoritarian governments when they try and prioritize public health.

I can go on and on

I feel like I'm sheltering from an inevitable incoming storm - the mother of all corona storms...
We're already hitting record highs in various categories here in the US, and can't imagine it getting worse, but with all the recent travel and gatherings surrounding Thanksgiving, time to buckle up and hunker down.
Haven't felt this uncertainty since the initial restrictions began, and the thought of going to the store for necessities doesn't really seem to be necessary right now. Not being paranoid, but the vaccine can't get here soon enough. Hang tough everyone, and at the very least, wear a mask for the sake of yourself and others!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......