Tell Me :
Talk
Stoneage, you read bv's response, I guess. About Japan and it's masks. BV is right. I have an almost 47 years history with Japan, lives there for several years, worked for a Japanse company, paid countless family visits, travelled all over the country and asked already more than 46 years ago why they use masks. Never anybody said that it was against airpolution! No, when someone has a cold or related illness, but still capable of working, he/she uses the mask to protect others!
I always found it a great weakness of our western society not using masks to protect others. Very, very selfish and arrogant! Look at the 2017/2018 influenza in both Europe and North America: several hundred thousand people died! Ah, no masks. So maybe you can imagine that I already said to friends and relatives almost three month ago ... "the only real way out of the corona disaster will be ... masks". A RELIABLE vaccin may take years to surface and poor people in poor countries will be the very very last to profit from it. And it's those people that cover the world to do the dirty and shitty jobs and will carry the virus around, at airports, building constructions, offices, etc. whether we like it or not.
So my suggestion to you is ... carry a mask with you whereever you go, not to protect others ... but yourself. And don't forget to wash your hands.
Lol.
I have learned to get in early am and then concede the thread to the political combatants in the evening here in the US. Occasionally I throw a punch or two, but this thread is too good to risk losing over some utter ridiculously false nonsense like "he has done more for Afro Americans in 3 years".
Who even talks like that?.. It's like the 50's all over again
See how easy it is to get caught up in it?? Lol.
On one of my visits to your country I wandered around beautiful Yellowstone NP. I couldn't get my mind of the caldera that's hidden underneath. To both the reds and blues in your country I would say "be nice to eachother because one day you will need eachother's help and support badly".
One day, and no politician or economic genius can do anything about it, it will explode. The tiny 1995 Kobe earthquake messed up Japan's economy badly, Yellowstone caldera will mess up this whole planet ... and it will.
It's good to know that the sound of all the music created on our (tiny, shitty litle) planet has long found its way across the Universe. Someone or something out there may think "that must have been a beautiful place to live on". Really?
If one digs statistics, it usually helps interpreting them by adding a bit of reality there. Most important is a thing called timeline, which I've seen seems to be a thing those not taking responsibility ignore big time.
Italy and Spain are the hot spots in where the virus hitted first and caught the whole Europe - and Western world - unrepaired (since the virus emerged in China). But that bought time for the rest Western countries to react and save lives. For those reacting fast and ordering social distancing and other measures, the situation didn't really turn out so bad. There were two big exceptions, which both have a one feature in common: a populistic leader not taking the virus seriously. Those two are UK and USA. One can look at the statistics of those two now to understand the scale of this drastic non-action. One can blame China for causing all this happen in the first place, but one cannot blame them for own chosen fatal politics.
I know some people are not liking facts these days - and even there are leaders being vocal about not taking any responsibility - but those who an ability to take the reality seriously (majority in the world), this really isn't any rocket science to understand. One day when all of this is hopely gone, the historians will tell what really happened. And it will not be a nice story for certain figures in charge now - no matter how little responsibility they now take. One can fool people with alternative facts for a next election but not historians.
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 09:19 by Doxa.
Javadave, what is the name of your store? I live in West Seattle & would like to check your store out when the madness abates, provided I can escape West Seattle haha. I might be blinded but I read your original post & didn't see it.
Thanks. I guess what I wrote is stating a rather obvious for those who are not blinded by some particular kind of political agenda.
But yeah, true what you say about alternative "facts" vs. "views". I guess an accurate expression would be "alternative views, which are not based on facts or ignore them tactically". For economical reasons I prefer to use 'alternative facts' as it belongs to a common usage these days... (and we remember from it derives from, being like a paradigm case for the rest to come...)
Personally it bugs me how much the authority of facts or truth is decreased during the era we now live in. Surely those two notions are anything but non-problematic, especially if we try to define them philosophically, but the banal brutality of raping those these days is terrible. It hurts common sense. It's all "differing opinions" now.
One American philosopher already back in the 80's defined 'bullshitting' as a way of talk in which truth and falsity has no any role. That is to say people when people bullshit they are are not even lying, since what is uttered - the statement - has no truth-value at all - that of corresponding to a fact or not, and uttered honestly. It is meant to satisfy some other conditions, such as sounding good or giving an impression of things desirable, or wanted it to be believed in, fitting to prejudices or some presuppsed scheme, being entertaining, etc. Surely, this has been a code of political talk for centuries, but the level of bullshitting, not by just politicians but by the very people following them and repeating their bullshit, probably even believing in that, is simply out of this world nowadays. And we supposedly should know better by now.
Some people optimistically thought that the corona virus crisis will re-assure the respect for a factual truth - reality bites, so to say - but seemingly that is not the case. The faith to believe whatever bullshit is stronger than realism. This already has have and it will have drastic consequences. I would not say this disrespect for a factual truth - a realm best captured by science - is the only reason for people behaving irresponsible and making short-sighted and terrible decisions (mostly it is to do with morally questionable, but psychologically understable 'me first' attitude), but it has an important role in it.
Anyway, this is just my view on the terrible crisis we are now living in. I try to view it in a larger perspective - I'd like to call it philosophical - than on daily political oppositions between 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' or whatever. Of course, by those preferring to see anything in those oddly-laden terms, I very well belong to a certain corner in a political map (I would call it 'anti-populistic'). Like everyone taking science, the notion of truth and Western civilization seriously.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 13:19 by Doxa.
- Doxa
Frankly, that still should be the only way to react to it - 'are you joking?' - since so incredible claims one might hear nowadays (no need to look further than this thread, despite most of those are delated). But unfortunataly, in many cases they are not joking. But, as one famous person just a while ago did, when confronted by the real absurdity of his claims, he responded "I was just joking". Unfortunately, then no one get the joke (be it the people lacking a sense of humor or not expecting a person in such a position to joke around with things like that). But still, there is always that backdoor to joke-department when one is caught by ridiculousness of one's sayings. Thereby, bullshitting is a safe way to discuss politics, and easy too, since the realm of facts is not bothering one. And pretty succesfull too nowadays.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 14:16 by Doxa.
That's pretty universal now, Chris
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Javadave
()
Date: May 13, 2020 20:34
Some good suggestions here, thanks.
As far as the on-line selling question, my original post answers that. No Clash vinyl at the moment, Those usually sell quickly anyway. I do have cds and dvds for them, and some of the solo projects, but I don’t wish to, nor feel that it is appropriate to use this forum for vending.
As far as the on-line selling question, my original post answers that. No Clash vinyl at the moment, Those usually sell quickly anyway. I do have cds and dvds for them, and some of the solo projects, but I don’t wish to, nor feel that it is appropriate to use this forum for vending.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
cmc
()
Date: May 13, 2020 20:48
I work in hospital laboratories. Most days I am in the lab of a hospital, in my area.
For the past five or six weeks a new process has been in place at all hospitals in order to gain entrance to the building. Hospitals have sealed off all but a few doors to the building. At an entry door you will find a team, usually two people, who screen each person who wants to enter. A variety of questions are asked: recent travel/contact with anyone positive/feeling symptoms/why are you here? Depending on the hospital, your temperature might be checked. But one thing that is consistent at ALL of the hospitals I visit - a mask must be worn to enter.
Everyone wears a mask inside the building. These people, the hospital employees, are in the loop. They recognize risks from covid and they know how to protect themselves as they are trained medical personnel.
I am in the lab of a major hospital as I write this. Understand that there are no covid patients in the area. They are far away on some other floor. Despite this, everyone I see is wearing a mask.
In my opinion, the people not wearing masks at Target or Wal-Mart are not well informed, to put it nicely. They have no formal education in micro-biology or any other areas of science or medicine.
Until leadership (political leaders, police, etc) forces compliance, the mask-deniers will continue to go mask less in public, likely leading to continued community spread.
One other item that I saw mentioned earlier in the thread: Many of the hospitals that I visit have furloughed lab personnel due to low volume. The normal patient sample volume has decreased substantially due to clinics being closed and no elective surgeries. Hospitals are ghost towns now. Parking ramps are deserted. Cafeterias often closed.
People in the medical field are educated and trained. They wear masks when they are around others indoors. It’s a rule. Doesn’t that tell you something?
For the past five or six weeks a new process has been in place at all hospitals in order to gain entrance to the building. Hospitals have sealed off all but a few doors to the building. At an entry door you will find a team, usually two people, who screen each person who wants to enter. A variety of questions are asked: recent travel/contact with anyone positive/feeling symptoms/why are you here? Depending on the hospital, your temperature might be checked. But one thing that is consistent at ALL of the hospitals I visit - a mask must be worn to enter.
Everyone wears a mask inside the building. These people, the hospital employees, are in the loop. They recognize risks from covid and they know how to protect themselves as they are trained medical personnel.
I am in the lab of a major hospital as I write this. Understand that there are no covid patients in the area. They are far away on some other floor. Despite this, everyone I see is wearing a mask.
In my opinion, the people not wearing masks at Target or Wal-Mart are not well informed, to put it nicely. They have no formal education in micro-biology or any other areas of science or medicine.
Until leadership (political leaders, police, etc) forces compliance, the mask-deniers will continue to go mask less in public, likely leading to continued community spread.
One other item that I saw mentioned earlier in the thread: Many of the hospitals that I visit have furloughed lab personnel due to low volume. The normal patient sample volume has decreased substantially due to clinics being closed and no elective surgeries. Hospitals are ghost towns now. Parking ramps are deserted. Cafeterias often closed.
People in the medical field are educated and trained. They wear masks when they are around others indoors. It’s a rule. Doesn’t that tell you something?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: May 13, 2020 21:56
Today NRK1 - the main TV station in Norway - broadcasted a documentary about what happened when Norway closed down. In 40 minutes they follow patient number one into hospital, the political leader in Oslo city day-to-day lockdown works, a health worker isolated from her family, and other people, during March and early April.
When I look at this documentary, I am so glad and proud all these people worked so hard into getting us where we are now. Sorry it is in Norwegian, but it is a brilliant documentary about what happened.
Da Norge Stengte (When Norway Closed) (NRK TV documentary)
Bjornulf
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-13 22:41 by bv.
When I look at this documentary, I am so glad and proud all these people worked so hard into getting us where we are now. Sorry it is in Norwegian, but it is a brilliant documentary about what happened.
Da Norge Stengte (When Norway Closed) (NRK TV documentary)
Bjornulf
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-13 22:41 by bv.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: May 13, 2020 23:08
Judy Mikovits is a liar, yet, hilariously, some people on FB are screaming about YouTube 'censoring' the stupid video, the video which some mentally idled people call "information", as if it's some kind of violation of free speech.
Gonna be a long year.
Gonna be a long year.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: May 13, 2020 23:55
Quote
Stoneage
I don't get this fixation with masks. Masks are often false security. The Corona virus is not airborne. Most of them aren't good enough and most people can't handle them the right way.
In fact they could be counterproductive. They are essential in the health sector though. They need to be of medical standard (FFP3 or N95). And they need to be handled professionally.
Stoneage, you read bv's response, I guess. About Japan and it's masks. BV is right. I have an almost 47 years history with Japan, lives there for several years, worked for a Japanse company, paid countless family visits, travelled all over the country and asked already more than 46 years ago why they use masks. Never anybody said that it was against airpolution! No, when someone has a cold or related illness, but still capable of working, he/she uses the mask to protect others!
I always found it a great weakness of our western society not using masks to protect others. Very, very selfish and arrogant! Look at the 2017/2018 influenza in both Europe and North America: several hundred thousand people died! Ah, no masks. So maybe you can imagine that I already said to friends and relatives almost three month ago ... "the only real way out of the corona disaster will be ... masks". A RELIABLE vaccin may take years to surface and poor people in poor countries will be the very very last to profit from it. And it's those people that cover the world to do the dirty and shitty jobs and will carry the virus around, at airports, building constructions, offices, etc. whether we like it or not.
So my suggestion to you is ... carry a mask with you whereever you go, not to protect others ... but yourself. And don't forget to wash your hands.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 14, 2020 00:17
I hear you Georgie 48. Thanks for your info. I have seen images of how they pack people onto trains in Japan. So I always thought the density of the population had something to do with the masks.
But maybe not. Personally, I will not wear mask unless I'm recommended to do so (like when visiting old people). The area I live in isn't that deeply affected by the virus anyway.
But I do take other precautions. Like distance and a lot of hand washing. And avoiding crowds of course.
But maybe not. Personally, I will not wear mask unless I'm recommended to do so (like when visiting old people). The area I live in isn't that deeply affected by the virus anyway.
But I do take other precautions. Like distance and a lot of hand washing. And avoiding crowds of course.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 14, 2020 00:17
The brothers daspyknows and jumpontopofmebaby are breaking about every rule here but I need to say that I find their exchange most entertaining... American political reality seems to such a mess these days that a comedy seems to be the only way to grasp it without losing one's mind... (extra kudos to Skippy - that Orangevirus stuff really made me laugh my ass off...). Could be there an addition to rules that political posts are allowed if they are done humorously or contain some sort of wit?
More seriously, this thread has 151 pages. Without censorship it might have been over 300... The most delated thread in the history of IORR by a huge mile for sure and BV is working hard. Usually the 'best' stuff comes during the night time here in Europe when we sleep, and Americans really let it go. But it is gone by morning...
Love you, guys!
- Doxa
P.S. I hope my tone doesn't dishonour the topic of this thread. This is toughest shit we ever had come through here, but we still are human beings, and Rolling Stones fans, right?
More seriously, this thread has 151 pages. Without censorship it might have been over 300... The most delated thread in the history of IORR by a huge mile for sure and BV is working hard. Usually the 'best' stuff comes during the night time here in Europe when we sleep, and Americans really let it go. But it is gone by morning...
Love you, guys!
- Doxa
P.S. I hope my tone doesn't dishonour the topic of this thread. This is toughest shit we ever had come through here, but we still are human beings, and Rolling Stones fans, right?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: May 14, 2020 00:30
Quote
Doxa
The brothers daspyknows and jumpontopofmebaby are breaking about every rule here but I need to say that I find their exchange most entertaining... American political reality seems to such a mess these days that a comedy seems to be the only way to grasp it without losing one's mind... (extra kudos to Skippy - that Orangevirus stuff really made me laugh my ass off...). Could be there an addition to rules that political posts are allowed if they are done humorously or contain some sort of wit?
More seriously, this thread has 151 pages. Without censorship it might have been over 300... The most delated thread in the history of IORR by a huge mile for sure and BV is working hard. Usually the 'best' stuff comes during the night time here in Europe when we sleep, and Americans really let it go. But it is gone by morning...
Love you, guys!
- Doxa
P.S. I hope my tone doesn't dishonour the topic of this thread. This is toughest shit we ever had come through here, but we still are human beings, and Rolling Stones fans, right?
Lol.
I have learned to get in early am and then concede the thread to the political combatants in the evening here in the US. Occasionally I throw a punch or two, but this thread is too good to risk losing over some utter ridiculously false nonsense like "he has done more for Afro Americans in 3 years".
Who even talks like that?.. It's like the 50's all over again
See how easy it is to get caught up in it?? Lol.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: May 14, 2020 01:56
Two headlines eleven days apart...
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: May 14, 2020 03:12
Funny how they toured the USA in 2012, 2013 and 2015, then. Why was that, I wonder.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: May 14, 2020 05:08
This is why I was speculating that if any of the Stones gigs were to be rescheduled, Vancouver would be the most likely.
Still not very likely, I realize, but the most likely.
______________________________________________________________________
Vancouver could be hub city for NHL's return, B.C. premier confirms
British Columbia is in the running to host NHL games if hockey is able to return this season.
"Premier John Horgan confirmed Wednesday the province spoke with league commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly late Tuesday.
He said he could see Vancouver as a potential hub city and also floated the possibility of other B.C. rinks hosting more games if the league wanted to centralize in one province.
"The sky's really the limit," Horgan said. "I wanted to let the commissioner know that British Columbia stands ready to assist in looking at a plan brought forward by the players and the NHL. If we can make it work, I think it would be great for B.C. and great for the NHL."
[www.cbc.ca]
Still not very likely, I realize, but the most likely.
______________________________________________________________________
Vancouver could be hub city for NHL's return, B.C. premier confirms
British Columbia is in the running to host NHL games if hockey is able to return this season.
"Premier John Horgan confirmed Wednesday the province spoke with league commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly late Tuesday.
He said he could see Vancouver as a potential hub city and also floated the possibility of other B.C. rinks hosting more games if the league wanted to centralize in one province.
"The sky's really the limit," Horgan said. "I wanted to let the commissioner know that British Columbia stands ready to assist in looking at a plan brought forward by the players and the NHL. If we can make it work, I think it would be great for B.C. and great for the NHL."
[www.cbc.ca]
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
5stringTele
()
Date: May 14, 2020 05:26
What's truly very interesting is that the clearest difference between the two bitterly opposed sides is highlighted by Hogan's Heroes reruns. I do hope that everybody here understands that Hogan's Heroes was an American situation comedy in the late 1960s, and that there never really was a Col. Klink or a Sgt. Schultz; they were fictional characters. It seems that people on one side watch those reruns, while the people on the other side watch programs like Nova (which was about Covid-19 tonight).
The most recent models are predicting 147,000 American deaths by August. That's still in the first wave. The second wave is predicted to be far worse, and was even described as "the darkest Winter in modern history."
But the trolls are out in force again. They spent days preaching, "Give me liberty, even if means many pointless deaths." Now they've moved on in a coordinated attack on masks. Arguing against masks during a global pandemic!?!?!? Wow.
All of those evil scientists, who apparently are conspiring to bring us all mortal harm, say this is an extremely contagious respiratory virus. Yet, a few pages back, someone posted that masks were unnecessary, because "this virus is not airborne." What junk science source are they getting that from? Did they read it in Pravda? See it on RT?
In reality, the loudest minority isn't arguing with Democrats. They aren't arguing with liberals. They aren't even arguing with those dastardly scientists. In the end, they are arguing with a virus.
It amazes me how stupid stupid can get.
The most recent models are predicting 147,000 American deaths by August. That's still in the first wave. The second wave is predicted to be far worse, and was even described as "the darkest Winter in modern history."
But the trolls are out in force again. They spent days preaching, "Give me liberty, even if means many pointless deaths." Now they've moved on in a coordinated attack on masks. Arguing against masks during a global pandemic!?!?!? Wow.
All of those evil scientists, who apparently are conspiring to bring us all mortal harm, say this is an extremely contagious respiratory virus. Yet, a few pages back, someone posted that masks were unnecessary, because "this virus is not airborne." What junk science source are they getting that from? Did they read it in Pravda? See it on RT?
In reality, the loudest minority isn't arguing with Democrats. They aren't arguing with liberals. They aren't even arguing with those dastardly scientists. In the end, they are arguing with a virus.
It amazes me how stupid stupid can get.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Javadave
()
Date: May 14, 2020 07:17
If you’re looking for politicians to save you, good luck with that.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: May 14, 2020 07:26
*Deleted as longer relevant.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 19:42 by Hairball.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 19:42 by Hairball.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: May 14, 2020 08:00
Quote
jumpontopofmebaby
WHEN THE WHIP COMES DOWN!!!
On one of my visits to your country I wandered around beautiful Yellowstone NP. I couldn't get my mind of the caldera that's hidden underneath. To both the reds and blues in your country I would say "be nice to eachother because one day you will need eachother's help and support badly".
One day, and no politician or economic genius can do anything about it, it will explode. The tiny 1995 Kobe earthquake messed up Japan's economy badly, Yellowstone caldera will mess up this whole planet ... and it will.
It's good to know that the sound of all the music created on our (tiny, shitty litle) planet has long found its way across the Universe. Someone or something out there may think "that must have been a beautiful place to live on". Really?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 14, 2020 09:08
Quote
wonderboy
Europe has more deaths than the US but good to pop in here from time to time and read that once Trump is gone everything will be fine.
Trump is definitely an idiot but he's not in charge of Italy or France or the UK.
And the unchecked, forum sponsored anti-American bigotry rolls on.
We should go back to discussing what trousers Keith was wearing when he woke up on June 23 1973 before this forum disappears like most do when they go this far off topic.
If one digs statistics, it usually helps interpreting them by adding a bit of reality there. Most important is a thing called timeline, which I've seen seems to be a thing those not taking responsibility ignore big time.
Italy and Spain are the hot spots in where the virus hitted first and caught the whole Europe - and Western world - unrepaired (since the virus emerged in China). But that bought time for the rest Western countries to react and save lives. For those reacting fast and ordering social distancing and other measures, the situation didn't really turn out so bad. There were two big exceptions, which both have a one feature in common: a populistic leader not taking the virus seriously. Those two are UK and USA. One can look at the statistics of those two now to understand the scale of this drastic non-action. One can blame China for causing all this happen in the first place, but one cannot blame them for own chosen fatal politics.
I know some people are not liking facts these days - and even there are leaders being vocal about not taking any responsibility - but those who an ability to take the reality seriously (majority in the world), this really isn't any rocket science to understand. One day when all of this is hopely gone, the historians will tell what really happened. And it will not be a nice story for certain figures in charge now - no matter how little responsibility they now take. One can fool people with alternative facts for a next election but not historians.
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 09:19 by Doxa.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 14, 2020 10:03
Can we use the term "alternative views"? Facts are... well, facts
Otherwise, a brilliant post Doxa!
Otherwise, a brilliant post Doxa!
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: May 14, 2020 10:43
Quote
Javadave
If you’re looking for politicians to save you, good luck with that.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: May 14, 2020 11:57
It appears that some "christmas trees" got trimmed?
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: May 14, 2020 12:08
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
crholmstrom
()
Date: May 14, 2020 12:10
Quote
Javadave
Some good suggestions here, thanks.
As far as the on-line selling question, my original post answers that. No Clash vinyl at the moment, Those usually sell quickly anyway. I do have cds and dvds for them, and some of the solo projects, but I don’t wish to, nor feel that it is appropriate to use this forum for vending.
Javadave, what is the name of your store? I live in West Seattle & would like to check your store out when the madness abates, provided I can escape West Seattle haha. I might be blinded but I read your original post & didn't see it.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 14, 2020 12:13
The blaming game. Let's wait a while before we start pointing out other countries and bragging about others. This thing won't go over in a fortnight. And there are many factors
involved explaining why some countries are hit harder than others. And it isn't always leadership. Some even say this virus will take its toll whatever we do.
involved explaining why some countries are hit harder than others. And it isn't always leadership. Some even say this virus will take its toll whatever we do.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 14, 2020 13:02
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Can we use the term "alternative views"? Facts are... well, facts
Otherwise, a brilliant post Doxa!
Thanks. I guess what I wrote is stating a rather obvious for those who are not blinded by some particular kind of political agenda.
But yeah, true what you say about alternative "facts" vs. "views". I guess an accurate expression would be "alternative views, which are not based on facts or ignore them tactically". For economical reasons I prefer to use 'alternative facts' as it belongs to a common usage these days... (and we remember from it derives from, being like a paradigm case for the rest to come...)
Personally it bugs me how much the authority of facts or truth is decreased during the era we now live in. Surely those two notions are anything but non-problematic, especially if we try to define them philosophically, but the banal brutality of raping those these days is terrible. It hurts common sense. It's all "differing opinions" now.
One American philosopher already back in the 80's defined 'bullshitting' as a way of talk in which truth and falsity has no any role. That is to say people when people bullshit they are are not even lying, since what is uttered - the statement - has no truth-value at all - that of corresponding to a fact or not, and uttered honestly. It is meant to satisfy some other conditions, such as sounding good or giving an impression of things desirable, or wanted it to be believed in, fitting to prejudices or some presuppsed scheme, being entertaining, etc. Surely, this has been a code of political talk for centuries, but the level of bullshitting, not by just politicians but by the very people following them and repeating their bullshit, probably even believing in that, is simply out of this world nowadays. And we supposedly should know better by now.
Some people optimistically thought that the corona virus crisis will re-assure the respect for a factual truth - reality bites, so to say - but seemingly that is not the case. The faith to believe whatever bullshit is stronger than realism. This already has have and it will have drastic consequences. I would not say this disrespect for a factual truth - a realm best captured by science - is the only reason for people behaving irresponsible and making short-sighted and terrible decisions (mostly it is to do with morally questionable, but psychologically understable 'me first' attitude), but it has an important role in it.
Anyway, this is just my view on the terrible crisis we are now living in. I try to view it in a larger perspective - I'd like to call it philosophical - than on daily political oppositions between 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' or whatever. Of course, by those preferring to see anything in those oddly-laden terms, I very well belong to a certain corner in a political map (I would call it 'anti-populistic'). Like everyone taking science, the notion of truth and Western civilization seriously.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 13:19 by Doxa.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 14, 2020 13:05
<I prefer to use 'alternative facts' as it belongs to a common usage these days>
I remember who launched that term, hence I'm trying to avoid that, hehe.
To knitpick a bit, "alternative to facts" would be more precise
I remember who launched that term, hence I'm trying to avoid that, hehe.
To knitpick a bit, "alternative to facts" would be more precise
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 14, 2020 13:19
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I remember who launched that term, hence I'm trying to avoid that, hehe.
To knitpick a bit, "alternative to facts" would be more precise
- Doxa
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: May 14, 2020 13:23
One American philosopher already back in the 80's defined 'bullshitting' as a way of talk in which truth and falsity has no any role. That is to say people when people bullshit they are are not even lying, since what is uttered - the statement - has no truth-value at all
Bullshitting may have alterior motives. Usually, in American culture one may demean someone on communication that is faceless just to get in their minds. In most cases, bullshitting is synonymous with joking. It is not associated with lying to gain a means,
Really, No bullshit
I must add that we say "We're not bs-ing you. This avoids cursing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 13:52 by Chris Fountain.
Bullshitting may have alterior motives. Usually, in American culture one may demean someone on communication that is faceless just to get in their minds. In most cases, bullshitting is synonymous with joking. It is not associated with lying to gain a means,
Really, No bullshit
I must add that we say "We're not bs-ing you. This avoids cursing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 13:52 by Chris Fountain.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 14, 2020 13:59
Quote
Chris Fountain
In most cases, bullshitting is synonymous with joking.
Frankly, that still should be the only way to react to it - 'are you joking?' - since so incredible claims one might hear nowadays (no need to look further than this thread, despite most of those are delated). But unfortunataly, in many cases they are not joking. But, as one famous person just a while ago did, when confronted by the real absurdity of his claims, he responded "I was just joking". Unfortunately, then no one get the joke (be it the people lacking a sense of humor or not expecting a person in such a position to joke around with things like that). But still, there is always that backdoor to joke-department when one is caught by ridiculousness of one's sayings. Thereby, bullshitting is a safe way to discuss politics, and easy too, since the realm of facts is not bothering one. And pretty succesfull too nowadays.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 14:16 by Doxa.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: May 14, 2020 14:19
Sometimes "Bullshit" can be used in a derogatory manner. For example, If a referee makes a questionable call in a sporting event - one may shout "Bullshit!!!" although delivery may not mean any malice to recipient. It happens a lot.
The most common slang, however, these days in America is "He or She is Full of Shit"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 14:21 by Chris Fountain.
The most common slang, however, these days in America is "He or She is Full of Shit"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-14 14:21 by Chris Fountain.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 14, 2020 14:26
Quote
Chris Fountain
Sometimes "Bullshit" can be used in a derogatory manner. For example, If a referee makes a questionable call in a sporting event - one may shout "Bullshit!!!" although delivery may not mean any malice to recipient. It happens a lot.
The most common slang, however, these days in America is "He or She is Full of Shit"
That's pretty universal now, Chris
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