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Elmo Lewis
Like most things in life, use some common sense and you should be safe.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. Don't be STUPID!

Agree

I agree CR.

Let me repost my comments in response to one of bv's newspaper articles:

Swedish expert Johan Giesecke believes coronavirus lockdowns are 'futile'

Thanks for the informative yet scary post.

Many Americans ponder punishing China by sanctions or not paying back the billions or trillions owed. Some even think about moving manufacturing back to the States, which I think is far -reaching as the world economy is too integrated. In any event, maybe prevention over revenge is the solution. Removal of Wet Markets and Labs may be a necessity at this point as we do not want any new viruses materializing during this pandemic. At this time We must deal with both the current virus and any future pandemic occurrences simultaneously.

CF

Most people in the world does not live on their own. You can't simply "expose yourself" to the corona virus, then get it, survive it, through 2-4 weeks of mild or severe complications, then, meanwhile, be outside the real world.

You need food, you have a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a mailman, a bus driver, a neighbor, a grandfather, friends, probably a network of many people, you pass them on the street, you touch a handle on the bus or on the tube. Then may be you will need care, you may end up on intensive car, and plenty of health personnel will work hard on your survival, putting their own health at risk.

Just the idea of "getting the virus" just like that, to get done with it, is pretty stupid, selfish, and best case stated out of lack of information. On average, every person pass on the virus to one other person today, if the R factor is 1, or two others if it is 2. Few countries in the world are at the level of R very low. So every person who get the virus will make another person sick too.

The virus is often mild for 8-10 days. Then the immune system really kicks in, and the bad part of the virus start "messing up" your own immune system. This is the dangerous part of the virus. At age 80+ or 90+ it is highly likely you might die. Even at age 40, 50 or 60, you might end up in a ventilator critically ill, and you may die.

Bjornulf

Okay, we'll take it again: There is no proof for the Corona virus to be airborne. However it spreads through droplets which can linger in the air for a short period of time.
The measles, for example, which is an airborne virus can remain contagious in the air for up to two hours. According to the WHO (and The Public Health Authority in Sweden)
SARS-CoV-2 is not airborne.

Death is neither acceptable or ultimately, unavoidable. That’s just reality. I’m sorry if some find that offensive, but no one is saying that those at high risk shouldn’t remain isolated. The question posited by the article BV posted is if it makes any sense for everyone who is not at high risk to do so.

Sure, Jadave. We will all die of something in the end. Every year thousands die in the common flue. Mostly the elderly. No one makes much fuzz about that.
But this virus is out of the ordinary though. So special steps needs to be taken.

Yes, Stoneage, I agree. Isolating the aged and immune-compromised is a special step. Practicing social distancing, wearing facemasks and washing our hands 20 times more a day than we used to are special steps. For some, eating healthy, exercising and eliminating destructive behaviors are special steps.

Completely shutting down society is an extraordinary step, and the question being raised here, is if it is a futile gesture? Didn’t someone once say the definition of insanity is to know something isn’t working but to keep repeating it?

Yes, Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Like attending large gatherings, opening up cities too soon, not having tested and contact traced those infected and isolated them, etc etc.

Repeating this would also be insanity,
"The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States."

If 80% of Americans Wore Masks, COVID-19 Infections Would Plummet, New Study Says

"It sounds too good to be true. But a compelling new study and computer model provide fresh evidence for a simple solution to help us emerge from this nightmarish lockdown. The formula? Always social distance in public and, most importantly, wear a mask.

If you’re wondering whether to wear or not to wear, consider this. The day before yesterday, 21 people died of COVID-19 in Japan. In the United States, 2,129 died. Comparing overall death rates for the two countries offers an even starker point of comparison with total U.S. deaths now at a staggering 76,032 and Japan’s fatalities at 577. Japan’s population is about 38% of the U.S., but even adjusting for population, the Japanese death rate is a mere 2% of America’s.

This comes despite Japan having no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses that have remained open—reportedly including karaoke bars, although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can. Nor have the Japanese broadly embraced contact tracing, a practice by which health authorities identify someone who has been infected and then attempt to identify everyone that person might have interacted with—and potentially infected. So how does Japan do it?

“One reason is that nearly everyone there is wearing a mask,” said De Kai, an American computer scientist with joint appointments at UC Berkeley’s International Computer Science Institute and at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. He is also the chief architect of an in-depth study, set to be released in the coming days, that suggests that every one of us should be wearing a mask—whether surgical or homemade, scarf or bandana—like they do in Japan and other countries, mostly in East Asia. "
[www.vanityfair.com]

THE AGE -- 11 May 2020



ROCKMAN

Murdoch media?

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Elmo Lewis
Like most things in life, use some common sense and you should be safe.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. Don't be STUPID!

This issue is someone else's stupidity can and will infect you. This isn't like a STD where you actually have to do something to catch it.

This is unbelievable to me.
People gathering like this is the reason the lockdown will last into the fall, at least, and obviously more deaths.
Selfish and reckless.

Castle Rock restaurant big crowds Sunday Mother’s Day 2020 | Castle Rock Colorado Mother’s Day 2020

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Javadave
I think Jbwelda has a point, and name-calling is just the pot calling the kettle black.

Daspy, I am so sorry you had such a rough experience. The good news is you survived, which we should all be grateful for. I know a little of what you’ve been through. A few years ago I caught the worst flu of my life on New Year’s Eve. For the first ten days I thought I might die. It took a good three weeks to feel a semblance of “normal”. It sucked and I wouldn’t wish it on myself or anyone.

The simple fact, though, is that not everyone who gets this virus will develop severe symptoms. Some will, and we should make sure that the medical system has what they need to help them. It’s essentially a risk we each need to decide if we want to take. We each take numerous calculated risks in the course of our lives. If we each don’t want to take that risk, then we each can remain isolated, but to mandate that to all is an affront to the principle of free will.

I have had a severe flu. This is not a severe flu. The medical system at this point is of little help. One person's stupidity will get innocent people sick. Again, from personal experience if you get it tell me your thoughts afterwards. This is Live Free AND Die.

If you talk to people who have not gotten it they are all for opening everything up. If you talk to people who have survived or have seen loved ones survive or die or front line medical worker they all say the same thing. This is not the flu and there really isn't any treatment at this time. A ventilator is not a treatment.

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MisterDDDD
Yes, Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Like attending large gatherings, opening up cities too soon, not having tested and contact traced those infected and isolated them, etc etc.

Repeating this would also be insanity,
"The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States."

I genuinely don't understand this sentence in the above posting...

Repeating this would also be insanity

Does that refer to the line above (attending gatherings etc), or to the paragraph below (which is very much how I understand the 1918 pandemic occurred)?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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Stoneage
Murdoch media?

What about the Murdoch media? Context is everything.

If you are referring to the immediately previous quote, that's from The Age which (thank your favourite deity) is not owned by The Dirty Digger.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

I genuinely don't understand this sentence in the above posting...

Repeating this would also be insanity

Does that refer to the line above (attending gatherings etc), or to the paragraph below (which is very much how I understand the 1918 pandemic occurred)?

Repeating the results of the 1918 pandemic.
675,000 in the US, 50 Million worldwide.

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MisterDDDD
This is unbelievable to me.
People gathering like this is the reason the lockdown will last into the fall, at least, and obviously more deaths.
Selfish and reckless.

Castle Rock restaurant big crowds Sunday Mother’s Day 2020 | Castle Rock Colorado Mother’s Day 2020

If it's any consolation, it's also pretty unbelievable and shocking to me! But then I don't match the age profile of those depicted, which probably says a lot - if not all. It looks similar to scenes filmed this weekend in my borough of London. These people seem to have an all-invincible "it-won't-happen-to-me" type of mentality. I hope they don't end up laughing on the other side of their face.

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MisterDDDD

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CaptainCorella

I genuinely don't understand this sentence in the above posting...

Repeating this would also be insanity

Does that refer to the line above (attending gatherings etc), or to the paragraph below (which is very much how I understand the 1918 pandemic occurred)?

Repeating the results of the 1918 pandemic.
675,000 in the US, 50 Million worldwide.

Thanks. Agreed! (with the insanity bit)

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
Beast

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MisterDDDD
This is unbelievable to me.
People gathering like this is the reason the lockdown will last into the fall, at least, and obviously more deaths.
Selfish and reckless.

Castle Rock restaurant big crowds Sunday Mother’s Day 2020 | Castle Rock Colorado Mother’s Day 2020

If it's any consolation, it's also pretty unbelievable and shocking to me! But then I don't match the age profile of those depicted, which probably says a lot - if not all. It looks similar to scenes filmed this weekend in my borough of London. These people seem to have an all-invincible "it-won't-happen-to-me" type of mentality. I hope they don't end up laughing on the other side of their face.

The word you are searching for is Darwinism.

Sadly though, they may not only make themselves ill, they may kill others.

Strangely I actually believe that Boris now understands that, but he's not actually able (for whatever many and complicated reasons) able to resist the pressure for loosening the lockdown.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
MisterDDDD
This is unbelievable to me.
People gathering like this is the reason the lockdown will last into the fall, at least, and obviously more deaths.
Selfish and reckless.

Castle Rock restaurant big crowds Sunday Mother’s Day 2020 | Castle Rock Colorado Mother’s Day 2020

Years ago I had read up a little bit about the speculated average of species extinctions. Not being able to make much sense of it, I decided it wasn't for me to get concerned about because, well, if you don't understand something how can you do or learn anything about it?

The numbers seemed bizarre.

But it nagged at me. I started to think about humans, supposedly the smartest animal on the planet.

I don't think there's much truth to that.

I started to wonder, what will make humans go extinct? At the time HIV was all over the place, and AIDS was the result. That didn't happen. A number of things came along that didn't happen.

I started to evaluate my thoughts and figured I was focusing in the wrong area - it's not what will kill humans, it's what will humans do to kill themselves?

My first realistic, almost emotional, response to finding something new was an overwhelming feeling of one thing:

GREED.


COVID-19 is certainly revealing that, like those morons in Colorado.

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bv
Brazil status vs the corona pandemic:

COVID-19 in Brazil: “So what?” (The Lancet May 8, 2020)

(Lancet) The biggest threat to Brazil's COVID-19 response is its president, Jair Bolsonaro.
When asked by journalists last week about the rapidly increasing numbers of COVID-19 cases, he responded: “So what? What do you want me to do?”

Bolsonaro continues to dismiss Covid-19 threat as cases skyrocket in Brazil (CNN May 8, 2020)

(CNN) Brazil's coronavirus cases have spiked to 135,106 including 9,146 deaths, according to numbers released Wednesday by the Brazilian Health Ministry. This surge comes as President Jair Bolsonaro's spokesman, Gen. Otavio Santana do Rego Barros, confirmed he tested positive for Covid-19.

Yet Bolsonaro said earlier this week he believed "the worst had passed" for the coronavirus pandemic, during a press conference outside the Alvorada presidential residence in Brasilia. But as the number of cases and deaths continue to climb, many health experts fear the worst is yet to come.

I'm terribly ashamed that this guy is the president of my country.

Thanks to him, Brazil is being a model for the whole world of how not to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.

Very interesting article - How Pandemics End

[www.nytimes.com]

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Cristiano Radtke

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bv
Brazil status vs the corona pandemic:

COVID-19 in Brazil: “So what?” (The Lancet May 8, 2020)

(Lancet) The biggest threat to Brazil's COVID-19 response is its president, Jair Bolsonaro.
When asked by journalists last week about the rapidly increasing numbers of COVID-19 cases, he responded: “So what? What do you want me to do?”

Bolsonaro continues to dismiss Covid-19 threat as cases skyrocket in Brazil (CNN May 8, 2020)

(CNN) Brazil's coronavirus cases have spiked to 135,106 including 9,146 deaths, according to numbers released Wednesday by the Brazilian Health Ministry. This surge comes as President Jair Bolsonaro's spokesman, Gen. Otavio Santana do Rego Barros, confirmed he tested positive for Covid-19.

Yet Bolsonaro said earlier this week he believed "the worst had passed" for the coronavirus pandemic, during a press conference outside the Alvorada presidential residence in Brasilia. But as the number of cases and deaths continue to climb, many health experts fear the worst is yet to come.

I'm terribly ashamed that this guy is the president of my country.

Thanks to him, Brazil is being a model for the whole world of how not to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.

We feel your pain in the U.S. Our two countries are showing what not to do in slightly different but deadly ways.

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daspyknows
We feel your pain in the U.S. Our two countries are showing what not to do in slightly different but deadly ways.

Ultimately it's a matter of personal responsibility isn't it? Oh right, it never is and the only solution to any problem is always more big government oversight.

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cmc
Very interesting article - How Pandemics End

[www.nytimes.com]

Interesting thanks, as is the image from the article of this large Sicilian fresco c.1445.


The Triumph of Death, anonymous Catalan painter - 600 cm × 642 cm or 20 x 21 ft. (Damage resulting from WWII and/or when it had to be moved).

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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StonedInTokyo

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daspyknows
We feel your pain in the U.S. Our two countries are showing what not to do in slightly different but deadly ways.

Ultimately it's a matter of personal responsibility isn't it? Oh right, it never is and the only solution to any problem is always more big government oversight.

I think that just about everyone would agree that it is a matter of personal responsibility.

And that responsibility includes not gathering in large crowds and so forth.

The responsibility also includes keeping an eye out for others in society (the weak and the vulnerable and the elderly) and not wilfully behaving in a way that egregiously endangers them.

Sadly not everyone behaves that way, and that's why Governments have to step in.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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StonedInTokyo

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daspyknows
We feel your pain in the U.S. Our two countries are showing what not to do in slightly different but deadly ways.

Ultimately it's a matter of personal responsibility isn't it? Oh right, it never is and the only solution to any problem is always more big government oversight.

I would agree that personal responsibility has it's part in this, however is not the case that a good form of governance has an objective the proper marshaling of resources for the sake of the welfare and benefit of its people?

Chinese city Harbin locked down after NYU student allegedly sparks outbreak
This is a little bit old (I meant to post it almost two weeks ago)but does seem to be something of a cautionary tale.

Interesting article how Covid-19 enters eyes.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]