Just for clarification, are we talking about a sick person just breathing or coughing?

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Chris Fountain
Just for clarification, are we talking about a sick person just breathing or coughing?

The virus travel through drops and droplets when an infected person cough, sing, or simply talk. I have seen video scans of drops and droplets as filmed when a person is talking. Some are large, they fall quick, some are small, they travel far. Especially when you talk and say words with the letter "t", like "spit" or "stones", it is easy to see that the "t" do travel further away, because of the way we speak.

I don't think breathing will be much of a problem, as long as you keep one meter away i.e. 3ft. Everybody have had a friend, who have been too close to your face when talking, sort of breaking the "privacy distance", by talking into your face. Some times you actually feel a drop on your skin. It might have been the "f" or the "t" while talking.

Just getting one of these small droplets into your face, might not give you the covid-19. Your immune system might kill it, or it might never make it into your mouth, nose or eyes. But... if you are close to an infected person for more than 15 minutes, you get another one, and another one, and then you may get the covid-19. This is why our national health authorities state 1m distance outdoor, while they say 2m indoor, and if you have been closer to an infected person than 2m for 15 minutes, you have to go into quarantine for ten days.

Bjornulf

This is an interesting topic because based on facts provided by this discussion, languages, which contain many consonants such as German (Deutch) for example, would make the respective population more susceptible to virus transmission?

Swedish Covid-19 expert says other Scandinavian countries will be hit just as badly when they lift restrictions and New Zealand faces DECADES of quarantining foreigners if they wipe virus out (Daily Mail 8 May 2020)

* Swedish expert Johan Giesecke believes coronavirus lockdowns are 'futile'

* Lack of a vaccine means that everyone will be exposed eventually, he argues

* That means strict measures are only delaying mass infection, not preventing it

* He defended Sweden's lockdown-free strategy, saying other countries will catch up with its case and death tolls whether they went into lockdown or not

Johan Giesecke, Sweden's former top virus expert, believes lockdowns in place around the world are merely delaying a wave of coronavirus - not preventing it

That could take a decade or more, he told Swedish newspaper DN, with the effectiveness of such vaccines as-yet unproven.

In the face of such uncertainty, it is better to let the virus run its course provided infections can be suppressed enough to stop hospitals being overwhelmed, he said.

Reference:

The invisible pandemic (The Lancet, Johan Giesecke, Published:May 05, 2020)

(The Lancet, Johan Giesecke In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a proportion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care.

Bjornulf

I don't think there will be large differences in the virus spread, based on language or way of speaking. This is controlled by the large numbers and statistics. May be in two years time, they have some sort of evidence, but roughly, a drop is a drop, it may travel 1m or 2m, all languages do have consonants.

Just imagine a football crowd. It is 10 minutes left of the game, and everybody is shouting and creaming like crazy. The crowd is packed. They are standing on top of each other, and the drops fly from person to person. Or a family party with many guests, many talking loud, spitting out words, with smaller and larger drops, the virus just love it, many people close by each other. You don't have 2m i.e. 6ft distance at a football game or a family party...

Norway got the first 500 or so cases from one single source in Tyrol Austria. They were traced back to an after-ski bar in Ischgl. The bartenders at the bar Kitzloch used a whistle to make room, when they carried beer into the packed crowd. Later on 15 of the 22 whistle blowing bartenders tested positive. By then thousands of ski tourists were back in Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and so on, spreading the virus further on, while people in Austria actually denied the fact, even here in this very thread.

Inside 'ground zero' of Europe's coronavirus pandemic, the Austrian ski resort under investigation for spreading the coronavirus across 6 countries and allegedly trying to cover it up (Business Insider Apr 24, 2020)



Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 15:27 by bv.

Swedish expert Johan Giesecke believes coronavirus lockdowns are 'futile'

Thanks for the informative yet scary post.

Many Americans ponder punishing China by sanctions or not paying back the billions or trillions owed. Some even think about moving manufacturing back to the States, which I think is far -reaching as the world economy is too integrated. In any event, maybe prevention over revenge is the solution. Removal of Wet Markets and Labs may be a necessity at this point as we do not want any new viruses materializing during this pandemic. At this time We must deal with both the current virus and any future pandemic occurrences simultaneously.

CF



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 15:26 by Chris Fountain.

Meet the robot dog promoting safe distancing in Singapore's parks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 15:48 by curt.

We need robot dogs in our community as some neighbors are not cleaning up the poop as required.

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Chris Fountain
Just for clarification, are we talking about a sick person just breathing or coughing?

This is why people need to wear a f'in mask. Not to spread to others. Two issues, the selfish people who refuse to wear them and how do you wear a mask eating at a restaurant?

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daspyknows

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Chris Fountain
Just for clarification, are we talking about a sick person just breathing or coughing?

This is why people need to wear a f'in mask. Not to spread to others. Two issues, the selfish people who refuse to wear them and how do you wear a mask eating at a restaurant?

Does appear that a restaurant would be a breeding ground for COVID -19- Forks, Spoons and Knives - even table cloth, salt & pepper shakers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 18:32 by Chris Fountain.

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bv

Reference:

The invisible pandemic (The Lancet, Johan Giesecke, Published:May 05, 2020)

Thanks for the link, a very interesting point of view.

There was a movie called "As Good As It Gets" with Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt. One of my favorites. Melvin (Jack Nicholson) was a bit crazy about catching a disease at the restaurant, so he brought is own plastic knife and fork every day. I don't think we need to be that crazy about virus protection these days. Still, I have not been dining out yet, and I don't think I will be dining out for a while.

We had our first private family party Friday. Outdoor, at home. We were 12 in total, four family groups, they call it "cohorts" these days, i.e. groups with the same characteristics. Pizza and sushi, nobody cross-touching anything etc. Personally, I don't think I will be dining out for a while. May be a beer, but who knows where the waiter is touching the glass. It's a mad world, and the virus travel both by surface and air.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 19:16 by bv.

If Giesecke’s hypothesis is correct, and a lockdown is an exercise in futility, then why are we doing this?

It makes sense to me that we should take precautions via good hygiene and other safe health practices. What he’s saying is we’re all likely to contract the virus anyway. Maybe it’s better that people focus their energy on strengthening their immune systems. Eat healthier, exercise, quit smoking cigarettes. If you are very old or have a compromised immune system, and are worried about catching the virus and dying, then find ways to isolate yourself.

There are some very important reasons why there was a lockdown all over the world mid March:

- Most countries had very limited supplies of masks and other protective items for doctors and nurses
- Hospitals were not ready
- Nursing homes for the elderly were not prepared
- Knowledge of the virus was limited
- Very limited testing capacity in many countries

Now two months later we know more. A lot more. We know how fast the virus travel. We know how sick people may get. We know roughly the fatality rate to be 0.5% on average, but much much higher at age 70+, at 80+, and at 90+.

Also, countries do have more capacity for treating those who need care. Other patients with cancer, hip problems, and need for routine surgery, may now be taken care of, because the virus is under control most places. Masks, PPE and everything needed for treating covid-19 patients are more available. Testing capacity is now much higher. We are more prepared for more cases, and better control.

At one point Sweden was close to the limit. NYC was close to the limit. Italy was way past the limit, with sick people in corridors, sick people dead at home and so on. That is not something you want to happen all over. Most countries and most leaders do want to have a certain control over diseases, and their health systems.

With a limited spread of the virus, it will take 2-5 years, and most of us will get the virus, over time. The elderly homes will be protected. People in risk groups are better protected.

Nobody want to have the virus out of control. Now it will be possible to control the R = Reproduction factor. If it is 0.5 - 1.1 then we have control. It was 3.5 in March for several countries, which means 100 sick people transmitted the virus on to 350 others. A wild and uncontrolled pandemic.

Many people may go back to work, but travel industry, entertainment, sports, large concerts and any kind of activity where more than 5-50 people are close, will have to wait until 2021 or 2022.

The world will go on, but in a different way. Those who think the Stones will tour next year don't understand how this virus work, and they don't understand how long time it takes to make a vaccine. Nobody can walk on water, nobody can make wine out of water, and nobody can make a vaccine for the entire world population in less than a year.

Bjornulf



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 19:56 by bv.

Where states are reopening after America’s shutdown
At least 100 million people can move around again. Public health officials warn a deadly surge may follow.

Most states and U.S. territories have begun to ease restrictions on businesses and social activity, moving to reopen economies battered by the covid-19 pandemic and weeks of stay-at-home orders that affected some 315 million Americans.

Public health experts warn this increased activity is likely to cause a surge of new infections. Cases are continuing to rise in many of the states where governors have been most aggressive in opening public spaces and businesses that rely on close personal contact, like salons and gyms. None have met the federal government’s core recommendation of a two-week decline in reported cases.
[www.washingtonpost.com]



Closed- Orange
Scheduled to reopen- Striped
Partially opened- Yellow

A United Airlines flight yesterday in the US.
This would be a hard pass for me.

Coronavirus case cluster tied to California party and 'selfish behavior,' officials say

[www.sfgate.com]

Bet this happens a lot today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 20:18 by daspyknows.

72 got COVID-19 after being at large event

MADISON, Wis. — More than 70 people who tested positive for the coronavirus since an April 24 rally at the Wisconsin state Capitol indicated they had attended a large gathering, but the state Department of Health Services cant’ say if they were at the rally because it is not tracking specific events.

Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Goodsitt said Friday that when someone tests positive for COVID-19 they are asked if they attended any large gatherings. But the department did not add the April 24 rally, which attracted about 1,500 people, to the list of specific questions.
[www.channel3000.com]

We just need for all of us to be exposed to it and let the chips fall where they may. As far as I know, human beings have not made any endangered species lists, shedding a few millions will do the world good. Doing anything else is just hiding your head in the sand, or, more likely, political posturing. Take for instance this bit from Donald "its all a hoax" Trump: its all China's fault for not doing something more about it (while I was claiming it was a hoax manufactured by the Democrats) and we should sanction them. Yeah, right, then who will sanction YOU?

But I don't expect a Nobel prize for this little observation, more likely to be cursed out of the room. People don't like to hear truth, they need it sugar coated with an obvious villain to blame it all on.

jb

Looks terrifying....

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MisterDDDD
A United Airlines flight yesterday in the US.
This would be a hard pass for me.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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jbwelda
We just need for all of us to be exposed to it and let the chips fall where they may. As far as I know, human beings have not made any endangered species lists, shedding a few millions will do the world good. Doing anything else is just hiding your head in the sand, or, more likely, political posturing. Take for instance this bit from Donald "its all a hoax" Trump: its all China's fault for not doing something more about it (while I was claiming it was a hoax manufactured by the Democrats) and we should sanction them. Yeah, right, then who will sanction YOU?

But I don't expect a Nobel prize for this little observation, more likely to be cursed out of the room. People don't like to hear truth, they need it sugar coated with an obvious villain to blame it all on.

jb

If you feel that way I hope you get a case like I had. I am sure you will feel differently after a few weeks. If you really feel that way go catch it. Not really that hard to find the virus.

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Hairball
Looks terrifying....

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MisterDDDD
A United Airlines flight yesterday in the US.
This would be a hard pass for me.

Very. I refuse to fly United because of many bad experiences. This would be one.

Pence had CEOs remove masks before meeting with him — hours after his press secretary tested positive for COVID-19

On Friday Vice President Mike Pence flew aboard Air Force Two to Des Moines, Iowa, to meet with food industry CEOs. His flight was delayed after his press secretary, Katie Miller, tested positive for coronavirus. Several staffers were forced to exit the plane before it took off. Also board were Iowa Republican Senators Chuck Grassley and Joni Ernst, and Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue.

Pence held a roundtable discussion at the headquarters of the Hy-Vee supermarket chain. As The Intercept reports, five industry executives, seated at the table, all wearing masks, were approached by a staffer who asked them to remove their masks before the Vice President would come to the table (video below.)

“The strange request underscored just how committed the White House is to ignoring federal health advice intended to slow the spread of the pandemic coronavirus,” The Intercept observes.
[www.rawstory.com]

<We just need for all of us to be exposed to it and let the chips fall where they may>

Thanks!

Like most things in life, use some common sense and you should be safe.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. Don't be STUPID!

I think Jbwelda has a point, and name-calling is just the pot calling the kettle black.

Daspy, I am so sorry you had such a rough experience. The good news is you survived, which we should all be grateful for. I know a little of what you’ve been through. A few years ago I caught the worst flu of my life on New Year’s Eve. For the first ten days I thought I might die. It took a good three weeks to feel a semblance of “normal”. It sucked and I wouldn’t wish it on myself or anyone.

The simple fact, though, is that not everyone who gets this virus will develop severe symptoms. Some will, and we should make sure that the medical system has what they need to help them. It’s essentially a risk we each need to decide if we want to take. We each take numerous calculated risks in the course of our lives. If we each don’t want to take that risk, then we each can remain isolated, but to mandate that to all is an affront to the principle of free will.

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jbwelda
We just need for all of us to be exposed to it and let the chips fall where they may. As far as I know, human beings have not made any endangered species lists, shedding a few millions will do the world good. Doing anything else is just hiding your head in the sand, or, more likely, political posturing. Take for instance this bit from Donald "its all a hoax" Trump: its all China's fault for not doing something more about it (while I was claiming it was a hoax manufactured by the Democrats) and we should sanction them. Yeah, right, then who will sanction YOU?

But I don't expect a Nobel prize for this little observation, more likely to be cursed out of the room. People don't like to hear truth, they need it sugar coated with an obvious villain to blame it all on.

jb

Utter ignorance. At a (fairly soon) point hospital capacities would be met, then what? Who you going to turn away? Young? Old? Actually don’t bother answering that I’m really not interested. The lack of humanity in this post is incredible

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Elmo Lewis
Like most things in life, use some common sense and you should be safe.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. Don't be STUPID!

I'm with Elmo, here, but I would add - BE NICE TO ONE ANOTHER and stop politicizing the f@#&ing virus!

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

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Javadave
I think Jbwelda has a point, and name-calling is just the pot calling the kettle black.

Daspy, I am so sorry you had such a rough experience. The good news is you survived, which we should all be grateful for. I know a little of what you’ve been through. A few years ago I caught the worst flu of my life on New Year’s Eve. For the first ten days I thought I might die. It took a good three weeks to feel a semblance of “normal”. It sucked and I wouldn’t wish it on myself or anyone.

The simple fact, though, is that not everyone who gets this virus will develop severe symptoms. Some will, and we should make sure that the medical system has what they need to help them. It’s essentially a risk we each need to decide if we want to take. We each take numerous calculated risks in the course of our lives. If we each don’t want to take that risk, then we each can remain isolated, but to mandate that to all is an affront to the principle of free will.

At some point many people will have to decide whether to go back to work, if their job can't be done from home. If we don't want to take that risk, then yes, we can remain isolated - but not if we want to keep our jobs. This is going to be a particular problem for older or vulnerable workers in the UK, who were told to self quarantine for twelve weeks, and have been obediently doing so, but now suddenly find after eight weeks that Boris Johnson says their employers should "encourage" workers to un-quarantine themselves and get back to work as from tomorrow! Some employers may be understanding - and some may not.

Edited to remove gibberish caused by premature posting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-10 21:52 by Green Lady.

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jbwelda
We just need for all of us to be exposed to it and let the chips fall where they may. As far as I know, human beings have not made any endangered species lists, shedding a few millions will do the world good. Doing anything else is just hiding your head in the sand, or, more likely, political posturing. Take for instance this bit from Donald "its all a hoax" Trump: its all China's fault for not doing something more about it (while I was claiming it was a hoax manufactured by the Democrats) and we should sanction them. Yeah, right, then who will sanction YOU?

But I don't expect a Nobel prize for this little observation, more likely to be cursed out of the room. People don't like to hear truth, they need it sugar coated with an obvious villain to blame it all on.

jb

What is an acceptable percentage of preventable deaths in the world? Does that include members of your family & friends? As someone who is high risk through no fault of mine I find your post highly offensive. It's similar to sending someone to the gas chamber because they don't have the same beliefs as you. I know old people & ill people are a drain on society but by that logic people like Stephen Hawking wouldn't have been allowed to contribute to the world.