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keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.
[youtu.be]
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keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.
[youtu.be]
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daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101
another clear reason we need to get people back to work...
[www.cbsnews.com]
getting people back to work is one way to flatten that curve.
IMO.
We are trying this in Georgia and Florida, so lets see. Calling this stupid is an understatement.
In all sincerity (and a calm, neutral, non-confrontational voice which wishes to discuss without fighting): I don't think that "stupid" is the correct choice of word...
the evaluation of "risk vs. rewards" is not an easy or simple one for many people...hence, the choice to re-open is not a simple one either.
Think of people who will lose their businesses or homes without a paycheck..or those who can't put food on the table w/o a paycheck....millions of Americans live on this razor-sharp edge.
I suppose they could go work at the supermarket bagging groceries or wait in line for handouts and charity or whatever....but that doesn't really reduce their risk of getting sick or spreading the virus anyway....
I know if I could lose my home or business by forced closure, I would 100% support re-opening the economy.
I am very blessed not to be in that position.
It seems to me that people are self-regulating anyway....which is good.
[www.wsj.com]
we'll see...I hope it's the "right" call...b/c we have to get back to work....nothing is going to be "perfect" that's for sure....nothing ever is.
stay safe!
Is asinine, idiotic, clueless more applicable? You seem awfully cavalier about other people's lives. Boris Johnson sure has changed his tune after coming close to death. I wonder how you would feel after a bad case?
The government should be doing more to help people not have to work. Waiting in your car at a food bank is less risk than working at a restaurant. Also, do you really think people are going to rush out the the hairdresser, tattoo parlor, restaurant or movie theater?
I hope you plan to go spend your money at these businesses you say should be open. No need for a mask or hand sanitizer either. Keep us apprised on your heath.
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bvQuote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.
[youtu.be]
I am so sorry to see such fake info here on IORR !!!!! But I can not delete it, as some people do believe it, just like some people do still thing it is ok to inject bleach.
Look into the data. They are all lying with numbers. This guy is making false statistis. He claim to be an expert but he is in fact not. Anyone are able to make fake videos with false background data.
Erickson is, in fact, a physician, although not an MD. He is not an infections disease expert, immunologist, epidemiologist, or researcher. He’s also not in active practice. But we must evaluate claims on their merits, and the argument presented in this video has no merits. It is complete bunk (to use a technical term).
Dr. Erickson’s viral “COVID-19 Briefing” video is dangerously wrong (The Prepared April 27, 2020)
In a viral YouTube video that many on our social feeds are citing as proof that the lockdowns were a costly mistake, a California osteopath named Daniel Erickson uses testing results from his chain of emergent care clinics to make the following familiar (and wrong) claim: we don’t have to worry about COVID-19 because it’s less dangerous than the seasonal flu.
But like most viral “science” videos on YouTube that aim to prove everything you know is a lie, the video doesn’t hold up to analysis. You’ll be dangerously misinformed if you buy what this clip is selling.
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bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
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keithsmanQuote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.
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bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
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bvQuote
keithsmanQuote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.
I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.
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keithsmanQuote
bvQuote
keithsmanQuote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.
I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.
Sorry BV i mean that the guy who is debunking the video Ari Allyn Feur is an Artificial Intelligence engineer for the major pharmaceutical company, not the doctors in the video.
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bvQuote
keithsmanQuote
bvQuote
keithsmanQuote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.
An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.
Example - if you do it the osteopath way:
I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).
There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).
Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.
Right?
I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.
I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.
Sorry BV i mean that the guy who is debunking the video Ari Allyn Feur is an Artificial Intelligence engineer for the major pharmaceutical company, not the doctors in the video.
keithsman:
Do you understand what they are saying about Norway and Sweden corona virus numbers? And do see what I am saying? What are your comments on the facts here?
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TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?
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TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?
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StoneageQuote
TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?
You have to ask Anders Tegnell - he's our state epidemiologist. He's the one running the show now. I'm sure he has a plan...
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keithsman
I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.
I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.
For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.
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bvQuote
keithsman
I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.
I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.
For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.
I don't think you get it.
Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million
The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.
You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?
If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.
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keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.
[youtu.be]
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keithsmanQuote
bvQuote
keithsman
I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.
I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.
For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.
I don't think you get it.
Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million
The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.
You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?
If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.
If i can try this another way BV, and I fully understand what you are saying, but there are other factors to consider, first of all without an economy due to extended lockdown the world will be in unchartered territory, the consequences are unthinkable, just today British Airways let 12000 employers go, this is like a stack of dominoes, businesses will collapse if this continues.
Secondly in Britain a week ago or so we had the largest amount of death's in recorded history since WW3 that week, and only 20% of those deaths were due to covid. That is because people are too frightened to go to hospital, the over reaction through the media is causing so many problems, hospitals are half empty, people are not receiving cancer treatments, people experiencing heart attacks and strokes but refuse to go to hospital for fear of catching covid . These issues are causing more deaths than covid. It's just become apparent that in the UK 8000 people have died in care homes, basically old people have been left to die because the NHS want to save hospital beds for people with potentially more chance of recovery. I spoke to a nurse today, she said it's the fewest amount of people on ventilators that she has ever seen this time of year at her particular hospital
Something is wrong about all this, the numbers are being exaggerated in many people's professional opinions. The best thing is as i said, ease very slowly and cautiously into lifting lockdown, if the numbers jump then act accordingly.
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keithsmanQuote
bvQuote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.
[youtu.be]
I am so sorry to see such fake info here on IORR !!!!! But I can not delete it, as some people do believe it, just like some people do still thing it is ok to inject bleach.
Look into the data. They are all lying with numbers. This guy is making false statistis. He claim to be an expert but he is in fact not. Anyone are able to make fake videos with false background data.
Erickson is, in fact, a physician, although not an MD. He is not an infections disease expert, immunologist, epidemiologist, or researcher. He’s also not in active practice. But we must evaluate claims on their merits, and the argument presented in this video has no merits. It is complete bunk (to use a technical term).
Dr. Erickson’s viral “COVID-19 Briefing” video is dangerously wrong (The Prepared April 27, 2020)
In a viral YouTube video that many on our social feeds are citing as proof that the lockdowns were a costly mistake, a California osteopath named Daniel Erickson uses testing results from his chain of emergent care clinics to make the following familiar (and wrong) claim: we don’t have to worry about COVID-19 because it’s less dangerous than the seasonal flu.
But like most viral “science” videos on YouTube that aim to prove everything you know is a lie, the video doesn’t hold up to analysis. You’ll be dangerously misinformed if you buy what this clip is selling.
With all due respect you must have started writing your reply within minutes of me posting it, did you watch it before i posted the link, it's over an hour long and goes into a lot of new data coming in from their sources, these guys are very well informed by the sound of it and in a position to have an opinion.
It's good to hear other peoples opinion in a democracy, they are entitled to comment on the data in front of them and discuss it i think
Delete it if you wish BV.
Also fear of covid is proving to be more costly to lives than the virus itself, there are many considerations to take into account that need discussion, and completely collapsed world economy is going to cost lives for many years longer after we have a vaccine.
I don't believe the youtube clip has been debunked, rather a lousy attempt to discredit their calculations, it ends up who do you believe, there is no proof that these two doctors are not who they say they are, I'm happy for you to delete this, I'd like to do more research before this gets left on iorr, i don't know who to believe anymore, it just becomes one man's word against another's. The truth probably lies somewhere in between the two extremes.
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crholmstrom
Colorado & Nevada join west coast reopening alliance. Not necessary for this but it would be good if we could get Hawaii & Alaska in the alliance. Maybe united, the western US could stand up more to the east coast bias. When the virus broke out in Washington & California, people I know on the east coast didn't take it seriously because it wasn't affecting them. Of course, their tune changed rather quickly.
Western state alliance
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jumpontopofmebabyQuote
keithsmanQuote
bvQuote
keithsman
I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.
I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.
For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.
I don't think you get it.
Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million
The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.
You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?
If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.
If i can try this another way BV, and I fully understand what you are saying, but there are other factors to consider, first of all without an economy due to extended lockdown the world will be in unchartered territory, the consequences are unthinkable, just today British Airways let 12000 employers go, this is like a stack of dominoes, businesses will collapse if this continues.
Secondly in Britain a week ago or so we had the largest amount of death's in recorded history since WW3 that week, and only 20% of those deaths were due to covid. That is because people are too frightened to go to hospital, the over reaction through the media is causing so many problems, hospitals are half empty, people are not receiving cancer treatments, people experiencing heart attacks and strokes but refuse to go to hospital for fear of catching covid . These issues are causing more deaths than covid. It's just become apparent that in the UK 8000 people have died in care homes, basically old people have been left to die because the NHS want to save hospital beds for people with potentially more chance of recovery. I spoke to a nurse today, she said it's the fewest amount of people on ventilators that she has ever seen this time of year at her particular hospital
Something is wrong about all this, the numbers are being exaggerated in many people's professional opinions. The best thing is as i said, ease very slowly and cautiously into lifting lockdown, if the numbers jump then act accordingly.
It is time to get back to work. People that are most at risk need to do what is best for them.
It is getting very close to the cure being worse than the disease.