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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 15:51

We got a special case in Norway now - corona virus among young people:

Karmøy kommune just got a case where one young adult person tested positive for corona virus late last week. As the test capacity is good now in our country, and this person is part of a "close contact" group og 26 young children and adults, they tested all the other 25 people. The day after the results said 23 of the 26 were in fact corona virus positive.

Half of the 26 people are children, and a few of them are in kindergarten i.e. age 1-5. Few knew they were sick, as they had few symptoms. They are now all in quarantine.

Link (Norwegian):
[www.karmoy.kommune.no]

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 16:00

So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Date: April 28, 2020 16:07

Quote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]



I agree the death rate will probably similar to the common flu. But it seems the coronavirus is many times more contagious. So more people will get it and in the big picture more people will die.

But ....I agree end the lock down. People at risk watch out for yourself.

It is time to get life moving forward again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 16:09 by jumpontopofmebaby.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 16:16

Quote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]

I am so sorry to see such fake info here on IORR !!!!! But I can not delete it, as some people do believe it, just like some people do still thing it is ok to inject bleach.

Look into the data. They are all lying with numbers. This guy is making false statistis. He claim to be an expert but he is in fact not. Anyone are able to make fake videos with false background data.

Erickson is, in fact, a physician, although not an MD. He is not an infections disease expert, immunologist, epidemiologist, or researcher. He’s also not in active practice. But we must evaluate claims on their merits, and the argument presented in this video has no merits. It is complete bunk (to use a technical term).

Dr. Erickson’s viral “COVID-19 Briefing” video is dangerously wrong (The Prepared April 27, 2020)

In a viral YouTube video that many on our social feeds are citing as proof that the lockdowns were a costly mistake, a California osteopath named Daniel Erickson uses testing results from his chain of emergent care clinics to make the following familiar (and wrong) claim: we don’t have to worry about COVID-19 because it’s less dangerous than the seasonal flu.

But like most viral “science” videos on YouTube that aim to prove everything you know is a lie, the video doesn’t hold up to analysis. You’ll be dangerously misinformed if you buy what this clip is selling.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 28, 2020 16:50

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
stickyfingers101
another clear reason we need to get people back to work...

[www.cbsnews.com]

getting people back to work is one way to flatten that curve.

IMO.

We are trying this in Georgia and Florida, so lets see. Calling this stupid is an understatement.

In all sincerity (and a calm, neutral, non-confrontational voice which wishes to discuss without fighting): I don't think that "stupid" is the correct choice of word...

the evaluation of "risk vs. rewards" is not an easy or simple one for many people...hence, the choice to re-open is not a simple one either.

Think of people who will lose their businesses or homes without a paycheck..or those who can't put food on the table w/o a paycheck....millions of Americans live on this razor-sharp edge.

I suppose they could go work at the supermarket bagging groceries or wait in line for handouts and charity or whatever....but that doesn't really reduce their risk of getting sick or spreading the virus anyway....

I know if I could lose my home or business by forced closure, I would 100% support re-opening the economy.

I am very blessed not to be in that position.

It seems to me that people are self-regulating anyway....which is good.

[www.wsj.com]

we'll see...I hope it's the "right" call...b/c we have to get back to work....nothing is going to be "perfect" that's for sure....nothing ever is.

stay safe!


Is asinine, idiotic, clueless more applicable? You seem awfully cavalier about other people's lives. Boris Johnson sure has changed his tune after coming close to death. I wonder how you would feel after a bad case?

The government should be doing more to help people not have to work. Waiting in your car at a food bank is less risk than working at a restaurant. Also, do you really think people are going to rush out the the hairdresser, tattoo parlor, restaurant or movie theater?

I hope you plan to go spend your money at these businesses you say should be open. No need for a mask or hand sanitizer either. Keep us apprised on your heath.

???

geez.

I simply disagreed w/ your word choice....(in a calm, neutral, non-confrontational voice which did not wish to fight, I might add)

no...I don't find any of those words "better," if you are wondering.

I am not being "cavalier"...I am simply addressing the reality for millions of Americans living on a razor-thin edge between economic survival and disaster.

...my wife's cousin is on a ventilator in a coma in NY...has been for 10 days...so, if you think I'm being "cavalier" or that I need to catch Corona myself to "understand" the reality, you are gravely and completely mistaken.

I suppose you and I simply see it differently...which is also fine.

as stated before: all of this is written in a calm, neutral non-confrontational tone....I think that's all that really matters b/c it's just my opinion, nothing more.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 17:13

Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]

I am so sorry to see such fake info here on IORR !!!!! But I can not delete it, as some people do believe it, just like some people do still thing it is ok to inject bleach.

Look into the data. They are all lying with numbers. This guy is making false statistis. He claim to be an expert but he is in fact not. Anyone are able to make fake videos with false background data.

Erickson is, in fact, a physician, although not an MD. He is not an infections disease expert, immunologist, epidemiologist, or researcher. He’s also not in active practice. But we must evaluate claims on their merits, and the argument presented in this video has no merits. It is complete bunk (to use a technical term).

Dr. Erickson’s viral “COVID-19 Briefing” video is dangerously wrong (The Prepared April 27, 2020)

In a viral YouTube video that many on our social feeds are citing as proof that the lockdowns were a costly mistake, a California osteopath named Daniel Erickson uses testing results from his chain of emergent care clinics to make the following familiar (and wrong) claim: we don’t have to worry about COVID-19 because it’s less dangerous than the seasonal flu.

But like most viral “science” videos on YouTube that aim to prove everything you know is a lie, the video doesn’t hold up to analysis. You’ll be dangerously misinformed if you buy what this clip is selling.

With all due respect you must have started writing your reply within minutes of me posting it, did you watch it before i posted the link, it's over an hour long and goes into a lot of new data coming in from their sources, these guys are very well informed by the sound of it and in a position to have an opinion.
It's good to hear other peoples opinion in a democracy, they are entitled to comment on the data in front of them and discuss it i think
Delete it if you wish BV.

Also fear of covid is proving to be more costly to lives than the virus itself, there are many considerations to take into account that need discussion, and completely collapsed world economy is going to cost lives for many years longer after we have a vaccine.

I don't believe the youtube clip has been debunked, rather a lousy attempt to discredit their calculations, it ends up who do you believe, there is no proof that these two doctors are not who they say they are, I'm happy for you to delete this, I'd like to do more research before this gets left on iorr, i don't know who to believe anymore, it just becomes one man's word against another's. The truth probably lies somewhere in between the two extremes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 17:39 by keithsman.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 17:27

I assume the osteopath named Daniel Erickson may be pissed off because he can not work 1:1 with patients, if that has been locked down in California. Or may be he is just one of those who deny the fact that the corona virus is a pandemic, and that soon 60,000 people in USA are now dead, in less than two months time, during a complete lockdown for a month in USA.

Anyway, his home made video do have so much false information, people need to know how much fake and misleading information there is around.

In USA there was reported a total of 34,200 deaths from the flu during the 2018-2019 season, i.e. during half a year or so, according to the CDC report. As we all know, the flu is around without any lockdown every year:

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season

I did not bother to listen through the entire hour of the denial video, because I have seen documentation about the false information as posted above. Still, there is a transcript, easy to read, as follows:

Open Up Society Now, Say Dr. Dan Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi

They use real numbers to make fake statistics. I do have 100% knowledge about Norway and Sweden, so it is easy to explain how these so called doctors lie about the virus. They are pretending experts, they say they follow the numbers, but it is all a big lie. This is what they say:

Dr. Dan Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi about Norway vs Sweden:

Norway has locked down; Sweden does not have lock down. What happened in those two countries? Are they vastly different? Did Sweden have a massive outbreak of cases? Did Norway have nothing? Let’s look at the numbers. Sweden has 15,322 cases of COVID—21% of all those tested came out positive for COVID. What’s the population of Sweden? About 10.4 million. So if we extrapolate out the data about 2 million cases of COVID in Sweden. They did a little bit of social distancing; they would wear masks and separate; they went to schools; stores were open. They were almost about their normal daily life with a little bit of social distancing. They had how many deaths? 1,765. California’s had 1,220 with isolation. No isolation: 1,765. We have more people. Norway: its next-door neighbor. These are two Scandinavian nations; we can compare them as they are similar. 4.9% of all COVID tests were positive in Norway. Population of Norway: 5.4 million. So if we extrapolate the data, as we’ve been doing, which is the best we can do at this point, they have about 1.3 million cases. Now their deaths as a total number, were 182. So you have a 0.003 chance of death as a citizen of Norway and a 97% recovery. Their numbers are a little bit better. Does it necessitate shutdown, loss of jobs, destruction of the oil company, furloughing doctors?

Fact check:

Sweden have a lock down, but not as tight as the rest of the Nordic countries. Every day, doctors in Stockholm Sweden fight hard to save lives. They work overtime, being close to the max capacity of treating intensive care patients. So far the death rate from corona virus in Sweden is 225 per million population. Sweden are number seven in the world (ignoring small states like Andorra, San Marino, Sint Maarten, Isle of Man) of the countries with the most deaths from the virus per million population.

Norway have a lockdown which has been including schools and kindergarten, and with more political control and policy on social distancing. All hospitals in Norway are back to "green" status, following two months of "red" and later "orange" state, to be prepared. Today there are 44 people in intensive care in Norway, out of a normal capacity of some 600, and an emergency capacity of 1,000+, i.e. Norway is not stressed by the corona virus at all now. So far Norway have got 38 deaths per million population. Sweden do have six times more deaths per million population.

In short, the way of using "cases" and "total population" is simply fake statistics. If you use non-relevant numbers like that, you may make any claims you like, but on false grounds. These guys try to make Sweden "healthy", but the corona situation in Sweden is certainly not healthy and "all calm" right now.

CNN do have a solid report on how Sweden is different from the other Nordic countries:

Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story (CNN April 28, 2020)



Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 28, 2020 17:29

A short digression: Just because someone can put a Dr before his name doesn't mean they always know what they are talking about.
On the contrary, some of them seem to be doctors in quackery. So don't be blinded by titles...

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 17:37

Just for the record, I am not saying Sweden is doing anything wrong vs the other Nordic countries. They have a policy of a more open country. May be they get immunity faster. May be they avoid a 2nd wave. It's just a different strategy.

What I am trying to say, is that using Sweden as a success story in fighting the virus with a open country policy is incorrect and simply false information.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 17:50

You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 17:51 by bv.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 18:06

Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 18:10

Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.

I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 18:25

Why is NYC hit so hard, while LA may be not so much, by the corona virus?

Manhattan have a highly efficient underground transportation system - the metro. Millions of people use it, and the metro takes you anywhere. You don't really need a car to get around there. As a tourist, I have never had a car in NYC, and I don't even take a taxi. I take the metro, wherever I go. The virus love a packed metro train with loads of people sharing the same air. Before the lockdown was in place, thousands of New Yorkers shared space with the virus on the metro, for weeks, without knowing.

LA does hardly have any public transportation, as compared to NYC. You need a car or a taxi to get around. The virus does not go that fast from car to car. Sure there are buses on Wilthshire Boulevard, I have taken them, also buses other places all over LA, but they don't have the same highly efficient NYC metro. The virus go much much slower on a bus vs a metro system.

Just a thought. I think metro, after ski parties, packed bars and pubs, football games packed with fans, concerts where people queue for seats, merchandise, seats, and in the pit, these places are main sources of multiplying up the virus from person to person. That is why they say max 5 people at the same place together, and separated at least 2 m i.e. 6 ft apart every person.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 28, 2020 18:31

Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I have more dandelions in my yard than hairs on my head.

sigh.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 20:03

Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.

I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.

Sorry BV i mean that the guy who is debunking the video Ari Allyn Feur is an Artificial Intelligence engineer for the major pharmaceutical company, not the doctors in the video.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 20:16

Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.

I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.

Sorry BV i mean that the guy who is debunking the video Ari Allyn Feur is an Artificial Intelligence engineer for the major pharmaceutical company, not the doctors in the video.

keithsman:
Do you understand what they are saying about Norway and Sweden corona virus numbers? And do see what I am saying? What are your comments on the facts here?

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 20:47

Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
You don't need to watch an entire hour of a video produced by a non-expert if you see - by their use of data - that what they say is completely false. Just read what they say about Norway vs Sweden, simply fake analysis.

An osteopath may know a bit about muscles and how to treat a person physically, but please give me a break. I have a master in science i.e. mathematics and statistical science. I have been working all my work life with statistics and analytics.

Example - if you do it the osteopath way:

I have one dandelion in my garden (I just tested, verified number).

There are 7,800,000,000 i.e. 8 billion people people in the world (correct verified number).

Therefore the Dandelion rate in the world per person must be 1 / 7,800,000,000 = 0.000000001.

Right?

I've done a bit of research and the guy doing the debunking has a bit of an agenda, he's an AI engineer in a major pharmaceutical company.
Just saying.

I don't really care if this guy is working with artificial intelligence. His works are simply false. Mind you Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was a former mathematics professor. Titles does not impress me, I am more interested in what people actually say and do.

Sorry BV i mean that the guy who is debunking the video Ari Allyn Feur is an Artificial Intelligence engineer for the major pharmaceutical company, not the doctors in the video.

keithsman:
Do you understand what they are saying about Norway and Sweden corona virus numbers? And do see what I am saying? What are your comments on the facts here?

I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.

I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.

For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 21:04 by keithsman.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Date: April 28, 2020 21:01

Why does Sweden take this approach ?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 28, 2020 21:03

I'm, of course, glad that our Scandinavian brothers are doing so well fighting this pandemic. When it comes to Sweden, who is not doing so well here,
there are some factors involved which can't be discussed. The cluster in Sweden is Stockholm. As it is New York in the USA. The rest of Sweden is less affected by the virus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 21:27 by Stoneage.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 21:08

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?

To save their economy ?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 28, 2020 21:11

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?

You have to ask Anders Tegnell - he's our state epidemiologist. He's the one running the show now. I'm sure he has a plan...

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Date: April 28, 2020 21:37

Quote
Stoneage
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Why does Sweden take this approach ?

You have to ask Anders Tegnell - he's our state epidemiologist. He's the one running the show now. I'm sure he has a plan...

Thanks, I must have been living behind the moon . thumbs up


[www.nature.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 28, 2020 22:16

Quote
keithsman

I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.

I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.

For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.

I don't think you get it.

Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million

The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.

You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?

If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.

Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 22:19 by bv.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 28, 2020 22:52

Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman

I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.

I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.

For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.

I don't think you get it.

Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million

The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.

You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?

If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.

If i can try this another way BV, and I fully understand what you are saying, but there are other factors to consider, first of all without an economy due to extended lockdown the world will be in unchartered territory, the consequences are unthinkable, just today British Airways let 12000 employers go, this is like a stack of dominoes, businesses will collapse if this continues.
Secondly in Britain a week ago or so we had the largest amount of death's in recorded history since WW3 that week, and only 20% of those deaths were due to covid. That is because people are too frightened to go to hospital, the over reaction through the media is causing so many problems, hospitals are half empty, people are not receiving cancer treatments, people experiencing heart attacks and strokes but refuse to go to hospital for fear of catching covid . These issues are causing more deaths than covid. It's just become apparent that in the UK 8000 people have died in care homes, basically old people have been left to die because the NHS want to save hospital beds for people with potentially more chance of recovery. I spoke to a nurse today, she said it's the fewest amount of people on ventilators that she has ever seen this time of year at her particular hospital
Something is wrong about all this, the numbers are being exaggerated in many people's professional opinions. The best thing is as i said, ease very slowly and cautiously into lifting lockdown, if the numbers jump then act accordingly.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 28, 2020 23:07

Quote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]

You have cognition issues.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Date: April 28, 2020 23:08

Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman

I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.

I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.

For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.

I don't think you get it.

Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million

The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.

You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?

If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.

If i can try this another way BV, and I fully understand what you are saying, but there are other factors to consider, first of all without an economy due to extended lockdown the world will be in unchartered territory, the consequences are unthinkable, just today British Airways let 12000 employers go, this is like a stack of dominoes, businesses will collapse if this continues.
Secondly in Britain a week ago or so we had the largest amount of death's in recorded history since WW3 that week, and only 20% of those deaths were due to covid. That is because people are too frightened to go to hospital, the over reaction through the media is causing so many problems, hospitals are half empty, people are not receiving cancer treatments, people experiencing heart attacks and strokes but refuse to go to hospital for fear of catching covid . These issues are causing more deaths than covid. It's just become apparent that in the UK 8000 people have died in care homes, basically old people have been left to die because the NHS want to save hospital beds for people with potentially more chance of recovery. I spoke to a nurse today, she said it's the fewest amount of people on ventilators that she has ever seen this time of year at her particular hospital
Something is wrong about all this, the numbers are being exaggerated in many people's professional opinions. The best thing is as i said, ease very slowly and cautiously into lifting lockdown, if the numbers jump then act accordingly.



It is time to get back to work. People that are most at risk need to do what is best for them.

It is getting very close to the cure being worse than the disease.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 23:09 by jumpontopofmebaby.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 28, 2020 23:14

Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman
So now we get the data and facts my instincs initially were right, death ratios similar to influenza flu . Does this information mean we get the lockdowns lifted and also hopefully people won't be too scared to go hospital now for lifesaving treatments.

[youtu.be]

I am so sorry to see such fake info here on IORR !!!!! But I can not delete it, as some people do believe it, just like some people do still thing it is ok to inject bleach.

Look into the data. They are all lying with numbers. This guy is making false statistis. He claim to be an expert but he is in fact not. Anyone are able to make fake videos with false background data.

Erickson is, in fact, a physician, although not an MD. He is not an infections disease expert, immunologist, epidemiologist, or researcher. He’s also not in active practice. But we must evaluate claims on their merits, and the argument presented in this video has no merits. It is complete bunk (to use a technical term).

Dr. Erickson’s viral “COVID-19 Briefing” video is dangerously wrong (The Prepared April 27, 2020)

In a viral YouTube video that many on our social feeds are citing as proof that the lockdowns were a costly mistake, a California osteopath named Daniel Erickson uses testing results from his chain of emergent care clinics to make the following familiar (and wrong) claim: we don’t have to worry about COVID-19 because it’s less dangerous than the seasonal flu.

But like most viral “science” videos on YouTube that aim to prove everything you know is a lie, the video doesn’t hold up to analysis. You’ll be dangerously misinformed if you buy what this clip is selling.

With all due respect you must have started writing your reply within minutes of me posting it, did you watch it before i posted the link, it's over an hour long and goes into a lot of new data coming in from their sources, these guys are very well informed by the sound of it and in a position to have an opinion.
It's good to hear other peoples opinion in a democracy, they are entitled to comment on the data in front of them and discuss it i think
Delete it if you wish BV.

Also fear of covid is proving to be more costly to lives than the virus itself, there are many considerations to take into account that need discussion, and completely collapsed world economy is going to cost lives for many years longer after we have a vaccine.

I don't believe the youtube clip has been debunked, rather a lousy attempt to discredit their calculations, it ends up who do you believe, there is no proof that these two doctors are not who they say they are, I'm happy for you to delete this, I'd like to do more research before this gets left on iorr, i don't know who to believe anymore, it just becomes one man's word against another's. The truth probably lies somewhere in between the two extremes.

WRONG opinions are a wrong opinions, especially when they wag their fake news/alternative facts flag, like the moron in the video. The problem with beliefs is it can be deadly, especially in this era of agreeable narrative flat earthing gullible headline readers.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: April 29, 2020 00:14

Not trying to swing anyone's opinion one way or another, just giving the perspective of a physician who is in a much better position to express his sentiments than many people: "I’ve worked the coronavirus front line — and I say it’s time to start opening up" Note he says "start opening up".

[nypost.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 29, 2020 00:17

Quote
crholmstrom
Colorado & Nevada join west coast reopening alliance. Not necessary for this but it would be good if we could get Hawaii & Alaska in the alliance. Maybe united, the western US could stand up more to the east coast bias. When the virus broke out in Washington & California, people I know on the east coast didn't take it seriously because it wasn't affecting them. Of course, their tune changed rather quickly.

Western state alliance

Count Alaska out of it. There seems to be concerts for June that are on as is the State Fair. An idiot I know of up there is bragging how Alaska is great because they are wide open.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 29, 2020 00:25

Quote
jumpontopofmebaby
Quote
keithsman
Quote
bv
Quote
keithsman

I take it you have watched the video now, from memory he said something like Sweden 1700 deaths Norway 170 deaths, small amount of death's, if my memory serves me right, sounds about right i suppose.

I think the point they were making was that the lockdowns were understandable because it was feared millions could die, but they remarked that on the data coming in now a continued lockdown can't really be justified on these numbers.
Personally I think it's time to start to gradually lift the lockdowns and keep a close eye on things, it's a tough one to call and no government wants to be held responsible for unessesary deaths but at the same time a continued lockdown is going to cause deaths one way or another.

For your information they are virologist and biologists not osteopaths.

I don't think you get it.

Norway have today 206 deaths with a 5 million population i.e. 41 deaths per million
Sweden have today 2,355 deaths with a 10 million population i.e. 235 deaths per million

The people you support state that Sweden is doing just as fine as Norway. With 5 times more deaths per million then that would be right if the highest death rate is the goal. It is not.

You don't listen to what they say, you just like what they say, right? Open up and you will be fine, right?

If we open up now, and keep open for months to go, then 0.5% of the population might die. For Norway that is 0.5% of 5 million which is 25,000 people. For Sweden that is 50,000 people. For USA that is 1.7 million dead people. There is a reason why 90% of the world now is in a lockdown. Africa. Asia. America. Europe. The lot.

If i can try this another way BV, and I fully understand what you are saying, but there are other factors to consider, first of all without an economy due to extended lockdown the world will be in unchartered territory, the consequences are unthinkable, just today British Airways let 12000 employers go, this is like a stack of dominoes, businesses will collapse if this continues.
Secondly in Britain a week ago or so we had the largest amount of death's in recorded history since WW3 that week, and only 20% of those deaths were due to covid. That is because people are too frightened to go to hospital, the over reaction through the media is causing so many problems, hospitals are half empty, people are not receiving cancer treatments, people experiencing heart attacks and strokes but refuse to go to hospital for fear of catching covid . These issues are causing more deaths than covid. It's just become apparent that in the UK 8000 people have died in care homes, basically old people have been left to die because the NHS want to save hospital beds for people with potentially more chance of recovery. I spoke to a nurse today, she said it's the fewest amount of people on ventilators that she has ever seen this time of year at her particular hospital
Something is wrong about all this, the numbers are being exaggerated in many people's professional opinions. The best thing is as i said, ease very slowly and cautiously into lifting lockdown, if the numbers jump then act accordingly.



It is time to get back to work. People that are most at risk need to do what is best for them.

It is getting very close to the cure being worse than the disease.

Talk to me after you get it. Boris Johnson sure seemed to change his tune. Your wife's cousin has it and is on a ventilator isn't someone who is close family. Those who survived a serious case of this virus feel differently than people who are just sitting at their keyboard.

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