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MisterDDDD

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Hairball
Sounds like an evil plot from Dr. Evil to wipe everyone off the face of the earth.
Or a lame joke by a bad Vegas comedian making light of the situation.

Is this Mayor serious?!!!

Just did a google search and she's all over the place making controversial statements...complete loony tune...

Viva Las Vegas...

Not to spark any further media debate, but this shot from her appearance today on CNN says it all

You really can't fix stupid.

LOCKDOWN FACTS BY NUMBERS:

HUBEI/WUHAN CHINA lockdown history:
Hubei/Wuhan China was in complete and extended lockdown for 76 days, i.e. 2.5 months. On 23 January 2020, the central government of China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan and other cities in Hubei. On April 8, 2020, the Wuhan lockdown officially ended. The peak in China was on Feb 12, with 146 deaths/day. The accumulated number of deaths increased from 1,200 at the date of the peak, into 3,000 by the end of February. Later on, in April, an accumulated number of some 1,290 deaths were added in China, but that number does not affect the peak, and the death rate during the following weeks. In short, the total deaths, during lockdown, is 2.5 the times of the total deaths at the peak date.

ITALY lockdown history:
Italy has been in lockdown for 45 days, and will still be in lockdown until at least May 4, i.e. 66 days. On March 9, the Italian prime minister ordered a national lockdown in Italy. On that date there were 463 deaths from the corona virus in Italy. Then on March 27, 18 days after the lockdown, Italy reached the peak in deaths, with 919 deaths per day, and accumulated total of 9,000 deaths. Then at April 22, the total number of deaths is at 25,000. The lockdown is still in operation, now valid until May 4, and it may be extended further. In short, the total deaths, during lockdown, is 2.7 the times of the total deaths at the peak date.

USA lockdown history:
USA do have a state by state lockdown, some states have had a lockdown for 32 days, others for 20 days. On March 22, NY state ordered "stay at home order". Washington state did did the same the day after, March 23. Georgia, Florida, Nevada and other states did "stay-at-home" orders April 1-3. There is no federal lockdown date in USA, and the rules of lockdown vary, but many heavily populated states have been in lockdown since late March. USA had a peak of 2,804 deaths/day two days ago April 21, and a total number of deaths of 45,000. In short, if USA continue a complete lockdown for 2-3 weeks more, the 2.6 rate as seen in China and Italy during the 2-3 weeks following the peak will result in a total of 117,000 deaths by May 10 or so.

References:

2020 Hubei lockdowns (Wikipedia)

2020 Italy coronavirus lockdown (Wikipedia)

U.S. state and local government response to the 2020 coronavirus pandemic (Wikipedia)

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-23 13:01 by bv.

UK coronavirus deaths more than double official figure, according to FT study | Free to read (Financial Times 22 April 2020)

The coronavirus pandemic has already caused as many as 41,000 deaths in the UK, according to a Financial Times analysis of the latest data from the Office for National Statistics.

The estimate is more than double the official figure of 17,337 released by ministers on Tuesday, which is updated daily and only counts those who have died in hospitals after testing positive for the virus.



Bjornulf

Here is LegalEagle's take on the prospects of success of suing China (or Trump, or Fox News):

[www.youtube.com]

Harbin, a city with a population of 10 million people in the north east of China, goes into lockdown, following a student age 22 returning with the virus from New York USA.

Harbin goes into lockdown after returning student spreads coronavirus to over 70 people (Shanghaiist April 22, 2020)

The student had gone through 14 days of quarantine and tested negative for the virus.

The country’s new area of concern has become the city of Harbin where one woman has unknowingly caused the virus to spread to more than 70 people.

The woman, a 22-year-old student surnamed Han, returned to China from New York last month. She went through 14 days of quarantine, tested negative for the Covid-19 virus, and showed no symptoms.

China's Harbin imposes lockdown amid virus outbreak (Kyodo News Tokyo 22 April 2020)

Authorities in the northeastern Chinese city of Harbin further tightened restrictions on inbound traffic and private gatherings on Wednesday to contain its second wave of coronavirus infections blamed on imported cases.

Harbin, the capital of Heilongjiang Province with a population of some 10 million, has banned all nonresidents and their vehicles from entering residential compounds, according to local authorities.

Heilongjiang, a northeastern province on the border with Russia, has become the epicenter of the second wave of infections in China, confirming 57 additional symptomatic COVID-19 patients in the past 10 days.

Bjornulf

Getting ready to do the weekly grocery shopping today, mask on.
Increasingly difficult to ignore those that choose not to wear one while shopping here in Washington, as the majority now do. As we know, more to protect others,
particularly the clerks who have to get close to hundreds of people per shift.


Stores struggle to get shoppers to wear masks

"New York (CNN Business) A handful of states and cities have mandated that shoppers wear coverings in grocery stores and other public places as they try to contain the spread of the coronavirus pandemic.

But retailers are struggling with how to convince their customers to follow the requirements. Major chains have yet to ban those who don't put on masks, even as labor advocates push for more protections for frontline workers.

"Keeping grocery stores safe for both customers and workers means everyone must wear masks," said Marc Perrone, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers union. "We are urging both elected leaders and grocery chains to make masks mandatory for both customers and workers."
[www.cnn.com]

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MisterDDDD
Getting ready to do the weekly grocery shopping today, mask on.
Increasingly difficult to ignore those that choose not to wear one while shopping here in Washington, as the majority now do. As we know, more to protect others,
particularly the clerks who have to get close to hundreds of people per shift.


Stores struggle to get shoppers to wear masks

"New York (CNN Business) A handful of states and cities have mandated that shoppers wear coverings in grocery stores and other public places as they try to contain the spread of the coronavirus pandemic.

But retailers are struggling with how to convince their customers to follow the requirements. Major chains have yet to ban those who don't put on masks, even as labor advocates push for more protections for frontline workers.

"Keeping grocery stores safe for both customers and workers means everyone must wear masks," said Marc Perrone, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers union. "We are urging both elected leaders and grocery chains to make masks mandatory for both customers and workers."
[www.cnn.com]

this is simply absurd....they should just hire private security...no mask, no entry.

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Hairball

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stickyfingers101

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Hairball

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stickyfingers101

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Hairball
The beaches in my city have just officially opened, after neighboring cities' beaches opened over the weekend. News sort of went under the radar thankfully, and since our beaches are already quite isolated and spread out compared to overcrowded L.A. beaches, things should work out. Certain rules that apply includes social distancing, no large groups, etc., but swimming/surfing, running, walking the dogs, etc. are all allowed while keeping a safe distance. First real heatwave of the season is about to hit so that might be a test of how many people will show up at the beaches, but again we're semi-isolated/spread out, and most "crowds" don't appear until June/July/August.

EDIT/PS - Mixed feelings about this as I think it might be too soon to take any risks (?), but wide open spaces on the edge of the Pacific Ocean seems to be safer than going in to a supermarket!

this is an interesting one I can't quite wrap my head around....

"beaches open...stores/businesses closed".....

isn't that kinda inviting everybody to go to the beach?

I live in a beach area on the Northern LEast Coast...but, it's still f'n cold here. Beaches never closed in the first place (except for one town)...crowds are very light. But, I still only go when it is rainy...and they are empty.

weird...my whole routine is backward now...I only run, bike & go to the beach when it rains and I pick the sunniest/nicest day to go to the supermarket.

go figure.

Good luck either way! Vitamin D is good for ya!

Opening an uncrowded, massive, spread out, semi-isolated beach should be alot easier to wrap your head around than opening a golf course which you yourself said is "common sense".
Born and raised on the southern California coast, and wouldn't have it any other way.

I wasn't saying I was opposed to it.

I just think that "nice weather + no work (or businesses open) + (free) beach = crowded beach".....and people have proven over and over they don't/won't listen to "recommendations"

Simply put, when the weather gets nice here, the weekends are always 5-10x as crowded due to "no work"....

golf courses are easily controlled b/c there is clear oversight (ie. # of people allowed on, groups of 2-4 max, scheduled and spaced-out tee times....the written rules prevent people from "playing on top of each other")....plus, far fewer people golf than go to the beach to begin with.

beaches are a free-for all....take a look at Florida. No golf course in the world ever looks like that.

and...unless people pay to go to the beach, opening them adds nothing to the economy....which was part of my point about "common sense"...open things that are low-risk and create (some) economic growth.

as stated...I'm not opposed to it, I just think it is an open invitation for crowds at the beach if there is "nothing else to do" (ie. work) and the weather is getting nicer.

that's what I can't wrap my head around....if we can open the beach w/ essentially unenforceable "recommendations" then we might as well open parts of the economy w/ enforceable ordinances and get people back to work....

That being said: SoCal is sweet. Good waves. It's late-April and we still have to wear a 6mm wetsuit + boots + gloves up here.

no crowds though.

enjoy!!

stay safe!

I guess you missed the parts where I wrote "our beaches are already quite isolated and spread out compared to overcrowded L.A. beaches", then "semi-isolated/spread out", followed by "wide open spaces on the edge of the Pacific Ocean" in my first post, along with "uncrowded, massive, spread out, semi-isolated beach" in my second post, but evidently you just like to debate and/or disagree for the sake of it as seen throughout this thread . But that's cool with me as I know isolation can lead to boredom lol.

Surfs up, and don't forget to wear your 6mm wetsuit + boots + gloves.

PS - I've seen the Florida beach pics, and in fact I was the one that posted the story here the other day.
I can promise you - we're no crowded Florida beach up here where I live (60 miles north of L.A.), especially this time of year.

First of all, I'll bet we agree on more things than we disagree. So, let's keep it light. I'm not here just to disagree or argue for the sake of argument. I'm here to express my opinion, like everybody else. I'm really not a bad or combative person and I'm sorry if I come across that way.

I wasn't referring solely to your stretch of sand...nor was I saying you are wrong...obviously you know your area better than me...

I was just stating a general thought on a "cause-effect" relationship between "work, weather and beach-crowds"....I'm not claiming it stands for every beach everywhere...I can find empty stretches out here too...even in summer on the weekend.

However, if LA's beaches get/are "overcrowded"...that's a problem....simply put, if there's no cholrine in the pool and more and more kids are pissing the shallow end, eventually the deep end gets gnarly too.

and...again - I don't oppose the beaches being open....as stated previously, I just don't understand why if beaches are gonna be open we can't start having some common-sense openings of the economy and put people back to work.

from what I've seen of your posts over the years, you seem like a good dude w/ a good sense of humor and a rational person. So I'm hoping you see my point(s) without taking them as an invitation to argue....that's not my intent at all.

either way...we had a great swell 3 days ago. 5ft @16 seconds, light offshore breeze...2 people in the water (I was one of them)....air-temp of 55F, which is "warm" for here right now...haha!

today is flat. oh well.

You're always welcome out here...I'll take you to the secret spots...though we do have tons of Great Whites...yikes!

take care...stay safe!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-23 15:48 by stickyfingers101.

Interesting article on Italy's experience

[jamanetwork.com]

C

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treaclefingers

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MisterDDDD

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Hairball
Sounds like an evil plot from Dr. Evil to wipe everyone off the face of the earth.
Or a lame joke by a bad Vegas comedian making light of the situation.

Is this Mayor serious?!!!

Just did a google search and she's all over the place making controversial statements...complete loony tune...

Viva Las Vegas...

Not to spark any further media debate, but this shot from her appearance today on CNN says it all

You really can't fix stupid.

put this guy in charge!!

[3.bp.blogspot.com]

"lots of holes out in the desert...and lots of problems are buried in those holes"

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treaclefingers

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MisterDDDD

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Hairball
Sounds like an evil plot from Dr. Evil to wipe everyone off the face of the earth.
Or a lame joke by a bad Vegas comedian making light of the situation.

Is this Mayor serious?!!!

Just did a google search and she's all over the place making controversial statements...complete loony tune...

Viva Las Vegas...

Not to spark any further media debate, but this shot from her appearance today on CNN says it all

You really can't fix stupid.

Vegas city politics are always "interesting". Her husband was mayor before her. They have a limit of 3 terms in office in Vegas & he served all of those. She's on her third term now. Before being mayor, Oscar Goodman gained some notoriety as a lawyer who's primary clients were associated with organized crime.

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treaclefingers

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MisterDDDD

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Hairball
Sounds like an evil plot from Dr. Evil to wipe everyone off the face of the earth.
Or a lame joke by a bad Vegas comedian making light of the situation.

Is this Mayor serious?!!!

Just did a google search and she's all over the place making controversial statements...complete loony tune...

Viva Las Vegas...

Not to spark any further media debate, but this shot from her appearance today on CNN says it all

You really can't fix stupid.

I'm more concerned about Anderson touching his face. Is he trying to hide?

Who said it was ok to discuss global politics related to USA, China, EU etc here on IORR? Certainly not the editor. Political posts will be deleted.

Bjornulf

Memo from Bill Gates, published today.

Memo from Bill Gates

[www.foxnews.com]



Hearing more and more stories like this.

Cuomo Says 21% of Those Tested in N.Y.C. Had Virus Antibodies: Live Updates (New York Times April 23, 2020)

More than 21 percent of around 1,300 people in New York City who were tested for coronavirus antibodies this week were found to have them, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Thursday.

The results were from a state program that tested 3,000 supermarket customers across New York State. Nearly 14 percent of the tests came back positive, Mr. Cuomo said.

It was unclear just how telling the preliminary data was, as Mr. Cuomo acknowledged. And the accuracy of the antibody testing available in the United States in general has been called into question.

Bjornulf

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bv
Cuomo Says 21% of Those Tested in N.Y.C. Had Virus Antibodies: Live Updates (New York Times April 23, 2020)

More than 21 percent of around 1,300 people in New York City who were tested for coronavirus antibodies this week were found to have them, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Thursday.

The results were from a state program that tested 3,000 supermarket customers across New York State. Nearly 14 percent of the tests came back positive, Mr. Cuomo said.

It was unclear just how telling the preliminary data was, as Mr. Cuomo acknowledged. And the accuracy of the antibody testing available in the United States in general has been called into question.

I saw this...if this is correct and applied to the wider population, it means like 2.7 million people in NY had the virus....

weird, weird, weird.

I want to get tested so bad.

and...please folks...if you get tested and have the antibodies...PLEASE consider donating blood!!!

I sincerely believe blood-donors are our best hope moving forward.

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stickyfingers101

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bv
Cuomo Says 21% of Those Tested in N.Y.C. Had Virus Antibodies: Live Updates (New York Times April 23, 2020)

More than 21 percent of around 1,300 people in New York City who were tested for coronavirus antibodies this week were found to have them, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Thursday.

The results were from a state program that tested 3,000 supermarket customers across New York State. Nearly 14 percent of the tests came back positive, Mr. Cuomo said.

It was unclear just how telling the preliminary data was, as Mr. Cuomo acknowledged. And the accuracy of the antibody testing available in the United States in general has been called into question.

I saw this...if this is correct and applied to the wider population, it means like 2.7 million people in NY had the virus....

weird, weird, weird.

I want to get tested so bad.

and...please folks...if you get tested and have the antibodies...PLEASE consider donating blood!!!

I sincerely believe blood-donors are our best hope moving forward.

Keep bugging your doctor or whoever you are trying to get tested by. This was early days but it took me about 2 weeks before I could finally get tested & another week to get results.

Its going to get crazier. Georgia says heck with it time to get back to life.

Illinois will remain shut down thru the end of may.

That is 37 more days!

Wow Wee

I don't know who either of these people are or the organizations they represent, but it sure is interesting:

video: [youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-24 00:25 by kovach.

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jumpontopofmebaby
Its going to get crazier. Georgia says heck with it time to get back to life.

Illinois will remain shut down thru the end of may.

That is 37 more days!

Wow Wee

It’s time to get back to living, everyone. Are we all seriously going to hibernate for an eternity?

My wife and I will continue to be very, very, very cautious...and I mean VERY cautious w/masks, distancing, etc., etc., etc. In fact after a month or so of this crazy business, it's been so ingrained in me now that I practically jump 10 feet out of the way when someone enters "my zone" if I have to go to the supermarket for necessities, and then I stare them down with the evil stare until they cower away ha....wondering if things will ever truly get back to normal or have I become a paranoid freak for life? lol We made it down to the beach earlier for a quick walk along the shore, and it was just what the Dr. ordered...fresh sea breeze, and nice cool refreshing ocean water...hardly anybody down there at all probably because not many people even know the restrictions have been lifted. On top all those "good vibrations", the Stones released a brand new tune!!!! Life is great!!! WTF!!!
Still though, we're going to remain very, very cautious, and I would hope everyone would feel the same...not only for our sake, but for everyone's sake. It ain't over until it's over...................

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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kovach
I don't know who either of these people are or the organizations they represent, but it sure is interesting:

video: [youtu.be]

Some things they say can not be verified. But the six weeks and the WHO stuff is real

Eventually people around the world will wake up and react



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-24 01:39 by jumpontopofmebaby.

I’m taking it as a positive sign that this thread has become unstuck.

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Big Al

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jumpontopofmebaby
Its going to get crazier. Georgia says heck with it time to get back to life.

Illinois will remain shut down thru the end of may.

That is 37 more days!

Wow Wee

It’s time to get back to living, everyone. Are we all seriously going to hibernate for an eternity?

If you'd like to imitate the second half of the Spanish Flu go ahead.

When Louisiana "opens" I won't be participating: there are too many rednecks that are, uh huh, gee, so dumb, imagine that, and those idiots will bring the virus back with a severe number of deaths.

WHO is concerned. They have good reason.

I will have plenty of popcorn to watch the ignorant population dwindle.

Enjoy your popcorn, I would not

I think nobody really knows what is going on...

Scenario 1: The numbers of spread seem to be in line with what we know now. Good news from one point of view. Bad news because of herd immunity (or slowing spreading) and high death rate

Scenario 2: The numbers of spread we know are way to low. Bad news is that the infection rate is way higher than expected and containment is impossible. Good news because of the low death rate and herd immunity.

A lot of conflicting news items...

A few things which concern me:

1) Do antibodies work well enough to keep your immune?
2) Why are some countries hit way worse than others ? What about Africa?
3) Are the fears of a second wave justified ?

In the Netherlands we have a semi lockdown situation. Which basicly means we can do whatever we want, but not in groups (social distancing) and no events. The ICU capacity is rising again so the pressure on the healthcare system is being relieved. BIG problem with this virus is that you can only see results of actions after 2/3 weeks. So we are opening schools now, and only after a month we can see what the effects are.

And then there is the economy... The question if it is justified to shut down the economy is one of the biggest questions if have ever seen. For me it also depends on scenario 1 or 2. With scenario one it should be possible to keep the ICU levels okay by just protecting the elderly and risk groups. But with scenario 2 even the care needed in the 'healthy' age groups would mean the healthcare system would collapse. So in that case a very slow release of measures would be needed.

I think we are following scenario 2 at the moment. One of the big problems for the future (both in the country itself but also between countries) is that the rate of infection (and immunity) is very much divided. In NYC (with 21%) there could be herd immunity in a few weeks (for example) but in rural areas they may still be extremely vunerable. So i fear travelling will be out of the question till there is a vaccin.

Strange days indeed.

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GasLightStreet

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Big Al

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jumpontopofmebaby
Its going to get crazier. Georgia says heck with it time to get back to life.

Illinois will remain shut down thru the end of may.

That is 37 more days!

Wow Wee

It’s time to get back to living, everyone. Are we all seriously going to hibernate for an eternity?

If you'd like to imitate the second half of the Spanish Flu go ahead.

When Louisiana "opens" I won't be participating: there are too many rednecks that are, uh huh, gee, so dumb, imagine that, and those idiots will bring the virus back with a severe number of deaths.

WHO is concerned. They have good reason.

I will have plenty of popcorn to watch the ignorant population dwindle.

Agree. I'm in Louisiana too. There are too many people not just in our state but nationwide who don't even understand that wearing masks is not so much to protect them, as to protect the rest of us FROM them. They're just convinced they don't have any symptoms so they're fine.

What is going on here? Where are the experts when we need them?

Trump, ever the salesman, is peddling dangerous cures for coronavirus (CNN April 24, 2020)

'It's irresponsible and it's dangerous': Experts rip Trump's idea of injecting disinfectant to treat COVID-19 (NBC April 24, 2020)

President Donald Trump on Thursday suggested exploring disinfectants as a possible treatment for coronavirus infections — an extremely dangerous proposition that medical experts warn could kill people.

After a Homeland Security official mentioned the ability of disinfectants like bleach to kill the coronavirus on surfaces, Trump remarked on the effectiveness.

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?" Trump said during his daily briefing at the White House. "Because, you see, it gets on the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So that you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."

Bjornulf

South Korea to track coronavirus quarantine violators with wristbands (New York Post April 11, 2020)

South Korea will strap tracking devices to the wrists of people who disobey quarantine mandates.

Production of the wristbands has been underway for two weeks after government monitors discovered phone records indicating some South Koreans had ventured out from their homes, The Associated Press reported.



Health workers disinfect a street to curb the spread of coronavirus in Daegu, South Korea (EPA)

Bjornulf

"They include not only deaths that are confirmed to be virus-related, but even those suspected of being linked, whether the victim was tested or not.
As of Wednesday, Belgium, with a population of over 11.4 million, has counted a total 6,262 deaths from COVID-19 — roughly 540 per million citizens — and more than half of those deaths were in nursing homes. Of those 52%, just 4.5% were confirmed as having been infected, yet all are counted in the national tally."

[www.npr.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-24 12:10 by Happy24.