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jumpontopofmebaby

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StonedInTokyo

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daspyknows
If YOU smoke YOU will kill YOU. If you are infected with coronavirus YOU will kill OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE. How is that the same? It is like drunk driving. Are you ok with that too?

You don't lock a nation of 330 million people down for a virus that by and large is NOT a mortal threat to anyone under 55 with no serious underlying medical conditions. If for whatever reason the virus is a mortal threat to YOU, then YOU may CHOOSE to STAY HOME and STAY SAFE. Let's face the fact that virus prevention has become VASTLY more damaging than the damn virus itself.

If you are a person at risk. Then you better watch out for you. Period. Does not matter if the shut down is over or not. The corona virus is obviously a lot more contagious than the flu. But.... when it is all said and done the death rate percentage will be about the same if not less than the flue. The problem is more people will get the corona virus because it is more contagious than the flu. So. I choose to assume if I get it...it will not be good. But there are many people that are not the least bit worried. So i will not allow someone else to infect me. I am responsible for me ! Life goes on. Right or wrong. People need to get back to work save their business etc.

And it is already proven that thousands of people have / had the virus and has ZERO symptoms. So bottom line. You have to make your own decisions. Take care of your self

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StonedInTokyo

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TheflyingDutchman
I agree, but I don't go into politics, cause BV won't allow it. The picture he posted says it all though.

Bv did post that photo, as well as the tabloid trash article "Gun-toting Trump voters march against US lockdown despite world's highest deaths"
(MIRROR UK 17 APR 2020)

So let's not kid ourselves about what is not allowed here.

You're absolutely correct because everyone has an agenda. You, me, Bjornulf. We all have opinions we believe make sense. What's the difference if we all have an agenda? The difference is this is Bjornulf's site. His time, his money. I wouldn't pay for it if I had the time or money. He does. House rules apply. The House always wins. How he chooses to enforce the rules is his call and is largely to stop arguments. Not unreasonable. If we find ourselves on the wrong side of the House, you either sober up and try to be more polite next time or we find another virtual establishment to hold court in. I like the place and the people so I try not to irritate the nice man behind the bar too much.

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Nate
Yes I agree the cure is incredibly damaging and is unsustainable but what do you think is going to happen when things open up and people start mixing again. I’m sorry but it’s obvious that this is only round one of a fight that could go twelve rounds. Anyone betting on an early knockout is delusional.
Nate

No, I'm not betting on an early knockout. In fact, what I'm suggesting here is a new paradigm called Life + COVID-19. We get on with our lives, understanding we can add COVID-19 to a long list of POTENTIAL threats to our lives. Fortunately, if one is under 55 with no serious underlying medical conditions the odds are if one does contract COVID-19 they'll shake it off and recover. On the other hand, if one is under 55, loses their business, career, credit and/or home as we all go into a prolonged economic recession/global depression one may wish they were dead.

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SomeTorontoGirl
If anyone gets the Smithsonian channel, there is a series called America’s Hidden Stories and tonight’s episode deals with the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, including what happens when the curve isn’t quite flattened and society reopens. Someone who has already seen it recommended it for me, I have it set to record.

Thanks for the tip! I just finished watching the show - fascinating.
For those interested:
Smithsonian channel. America’s Hidden Stories. Pandemic 1918

Look it up. I was able to watch it “on demand”.

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MisterDDDD

I sometimes get frustrated with people that just don't seem to get it, then I realize some people are just visual learners.

I hope this clarifies what is going on for everyone that wasn't quite there yet.

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MisterDDDD

Oh, please. Ok, I'll play. First of all, the "COVID-19" death stats are grossly exaggerated because since February nearly everyone with COVID-19 that dies in hospital is categorized as a COVID-19 death. Guy has a massive heart attack and dies in the ER? wait, he had COVID-19? Cause of death: COVID-19. Another guy was diagnosed with COVID-19 in hospital and died? Wait, he got run over by a bus on his way home? Cause of death: COVID-19.

All COVID-19 humor aside, what's disingenuous about that chart is it reflects weekly averages as opposed to annual averages. On that note, do you know how many people died from influenza in the United States last year? 80,000. Mic drop.

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cmc

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SomeTorontoGirl
If anyone gets the Smithsonian channel, there is a series called America’s Hidden Stories and tonight’s episode deals with the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, including what happens when the curve isn’t quite flattened and society reopens. Someone who has already seen it recommended it for me, I have it set to record.

Thanks for the tip! I just finished watching the show - fascinating.
For those interested:
Smithsonian channel. America’s Hidden Stories. Pandemic 1918

Look it up. I was able to watch it “on demand”.

Just looked at the channel guide for Smithsonian, and tonight's episode of America’s Hidden Stories is titled "CIA Cyber Attack" about some 1982 CIA/Russian/computer virus conspiracy ...sounds semi-interesting.
Looked up Smithsonian On Demand, and for some reason that show is not even listed...there's Aerial America, Air Disasters, America in Color, etc., etc., etc....hmmm...guess I'll watch the CIA Cyber Attack episode....

In other news, just heard that Kim Jong Un is in possible grave danger after a mystery surgery...intriguing... [www.cnn.com]

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-21 05:11 by Hairball.

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Hairball
In other news, just heard that Kim Jong Un is in possible grave danger after a mystery surgery...intriguing... [www.cnn.com]

I take that report with a huge grain of salt. Some said he skipped the Apr 15th celebrations because he now wants to be seen as breaking away from past legacies to establish a legacy of his own. He did send a wreath. He is relatively young. Perhaps he had an add-a-dick-to-me procedure done. Unsure if I spelled correctly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-21 05:20 by StonedInTokyo.

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StonedInTokyo

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Nate
Yes I agree the cure is incredibly damaging and is unsustainable but what do you think is going to happen when things open up and people start mixing again. I’m sorry but it’s obvious that this is only round one of a fight that could go twelve rounds. Anyone betting on an early knockout is delusional.
Nate

No, I'm not betting on an early knockout. In fact, what I'm suggesting here is a new paradigm called Life + COVID-19. We get on with our lives, understanding we can add COVID-19 to a long list of POTENTIAL threats to our lives. Fortunately, if one is under 55 with no serious underlying medical conditions the odds are if one does contract COVID-19 they'll shake it off and recover. On the other hand, if one is under 55, loses their business, career, credit and/or home as we all go into a prolonged economic recession/global depression one may wish they were dead.

Give someone a choice between starting a business from nothing or taking on Covid-19 and I think most people would take the former.
In times of crisis there will be many opportunities for those that have the determination.
Take one dollar and double it twenty times and you’re a millionaire.

Nate

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treaclefingers
I hope this clarifies what is going on for everyone that wasn't quite there yet.

Sonny Bono said it best in his last words, which were "That tree will move".

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StonedInTokyo

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MisterDDDD

Oh, please. Ok, I'll play. First of all, the "COVID-19" death stats are grossly exaggerated because since February nearly everyone with COVID-19 that dies in hospital is categorized as a COVID-19 death. Guy has a massive heart attack and dies in the ER? wait, he had COVID-19? Cause of death: COVID-19. Another guy was diagnosed with COVID-19 in hospital and died? Wait, he got run over by a bus on his way home? Cause of death: COVID-19.

All COVID-19 humor aside, what's disingenuous about that chart is it reflects weekly averages as opposed to annual averages. On that note, do you know how many people died from influenza in the United States last year? 80,000. Mic drop.

Covid-19 humor? I'm not getting it. Hope you or someone you know doesn't get it. It's a spectacularly unfunny disease.

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StonedInTokyo

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MisterDDDD

Oh, please. Ok, I'll play. First of all, the "COVID-19" death stats are grossly exaggerated because since February nearly everyone with COVID-19 that dies in hospital is categorized as a COVID-19 death. Guy has a massive heart attack and dies in the ER? wait, he had COVID-19? Cause of death: COVID-19. Another guy was diagnosed with COVID-19 in hospital and died? Wait, he got run over by a bus on his way home? Cause of death: COVID-19.

All COVID-19 humor aside, what's disingenuous about that chart is it reflects weekly averages as opposed to annual averages. On that note, do you know how many people died from influenza in the United States last year? 80,000. Mic drop.

Pick up your mic and post sources for your "stats".

These US stats on the flu are from the entire year.
We've had 42,514 deaths directly related to coronavirus in 51 days.
[www.worldometers.info]

"CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season"
[www.cdc.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-21 05:49 by MisterDDDD.

I hear Tucker Carlson say old people are on their last leg anyway, and I read some of the posts in this thread implying younger people should have the right to ignore restrictions and older people can just stay home. Maybe they're right. We should just kill all of the old people. They just drive slow and smell funny and the only thing they have to offer society is their wisdom and compassion -- two things obviously lacking in the noisy minority.

The restrictions are in effect in the name of public health, which means it's bigger than the individual. I'd like to see those who want those restrictions lifted sign a release ensuring they will waive any medical treatment if/when they fall ill with Covid-19. If you want to risk your own health, you should have no right to take hospital beds away from innocent victims of Covid-19 (not to mention all of the patients needing other life-saving surgeries or treatments). You may have the right to risk your own health to cover for the fact that you didn't save enough money to survive a drought, but you don't have the right to wreck the healthcare system for everybody else.

THE AGE --- 21 April 2020



ROCKMAN

Virgin Australia enters bankruptcy among Coronavirus woes.

Virgin Australia has been in deeeeep deeeep debt for some time now ...

It's 90% owned by foreign companies such as
Singapore Airlines ...Etihad and a couple of filthy rich Chinese companies



ROCKMAN

I was thinking about just that, and also about the forest-fire, that is not in the media now, how Australia are going to deal with this?

Not to mention Asia or Africa

I remember I asked my grand-mother what she remembers from world war II.
She said: "once, there was a german soldier, biking along the road, 500 meters from their house!"

And it's about the same this time. It's the poorer countries that get into a disaster. Poorer, not only in the case of economy, but also in the case of [many things] (edited, don't want to get into politics)

Well sadly with Covid 19 being front & centre
most of the fire victims have virtually been forgotten ....



ROCKMAN

Yes, they have, I can hardly find any information when searching my very best on the internet.

That fire, it really hurted.

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Erik_Snow
I was thinking about just that, and also about the forest-fire, that is not in the media now, how Australia are going to deal with this?

Not clear exactly what you refer to?

If you wonder how Australia is dealing with the Covid-19 virus, then (overview), as of 21st April we have had 6,642 cases, and 71 deaths. About 10% of the cases and 30% of the deaths are as a direct result of one cruise ship (Ruby Princess). For a very good overview of this see [www.covid19data.com.au].

New Zealand is another country that is doing very well [www.worldometers.info]

Plus both nations' governments are openly talking about eliminating the virus - which is actually plausible, but a bit of a stretch.

If you wonder about the bush fires. Indeed. Seems like a millennium ago, but it was 3 months. Rebuilding continues, but the lockdown makes that hard.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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MisterDDDD
Pick up your mic and post sources for your "stats".

These US stats on the flu are from the entire year.
We've had 42,514 deaths directly related to coronavirus in 51 days.
[www.worldometers.info]

"CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season"
[www.cdc.gov]

Nope. I still win, because your stats further support my argument and here's the CDC stats for 2017-2018: 80,000 US deaths from the flu. Thanks for playing!

[www.webmd.com]

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5stringTele
The restrictions are in effect in the name of public health, which means it's bigger than the individual. I'd like to see those who want those restrictions lifted sign a release ensuring they will waive any medical treatment if/when they fall ill with Covid-19. If you want to risk your own health, you should have no right to take hospital beds away from innocent victims of Covid-19 (not to mention all of the patients needing other life-saving surgeries or treatments). You may have the right to risk your own health to cover for the fact that you didn't save enough money to survive a drought, but you don't have the right to wreck the healthcare system for everybody else.

By this logic, homosexuals should have been signing medical release waivers during the AIDS epidemic. Mic drop.

In regard to those 'freedom-fighters' marching in the streets... if their leader and hero is not showing any responsibility for his actions or non-actions (and is even vocal about it), why should his idiotic followers either? It's not 'health first' or even 'economy first', but just 'me first'. It is not just the crisis, but Trump and his opportunist politics that brings the worst out of people.


- Doxa

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StonedInTokyo

All COVID-19 humor aside, what's disingenuous about that chart is it reflects weekly averages as opposed to annual averages. On that note, do you know how many people died from influenza in the United States last year? 80,000. Mic drop.

More than 38,000 people die every year USA from road accidents. If you divide by 12 that is 3,200 per month. During the past four weeks more than 40,000 people died from Covid-19 in USA, of which may be 1/3 in NY state alone. It does not take a master of science to understand that large numbers in a short time frame in a small geographic region is a complete crisis.

While the flu, car accidents, and all other fatal events are all spread out during the year, the corona "accidents" do all pile up at the same time. That is why it is important do see the accumulating real time curves. The health system is in overload, and people die, not just because of corona, but also because there is no hospital capacity.

Are there still some out there calling Covid-19 just another flu? With the economy broken, social life at halt, and the crude oil prize at zero? Not to mention all the dead bodies in nursing homes and freezers outside hospitals? This is a corona crisis. It is not just a flu.

Bjornulf

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StonedInTokyo

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TheflyingDutchman
I agree, but I don't go into politics, cause BV won't allow it. The picture he posted says it all though.

Bv did post that photo, as well as the tabloid trash article "Gun-toting Trump voters march against US lockdown despite world's highest deaths"
(MIRROR UK 17 APR 2020)

So let's not kid ourselves about what is not allowed here.

I posted these two items because they are in the news headlines all over the world. Americans with large automatic guns on the streets, and a president saying on twitter he support these people. May be the news in USA have a different story, but these are the stories we see on the main news where I live.

Tabloid trash? The Guardian is probably one of the most respected UK newspapers. It has been named "newspaper of the year" four times at the annual British Press Awards: most recently in 2014, for its reporting on government surveillance.[

Bjornulf

Here's something else that is starting to rear it's ugly head. The link is for an article in the Seattle Times regarding COVID-19 amongst the homeless here. Sorry my view is mostly concentrated on the local matters but since I'm living with it is where I need to focus. Seattle has a large homeless problem & most likely the same thing is going to happen in other cities with the same. Substitute third world for homeless & sadly it looks like the virus is not going away any time soon.

Coronavirus cases skyrocket among homeless...

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StonedInTokyo

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MisterDDDD

Oh, please. Ok, I'll play. First of all, the "COVID-19" death stats are grossly exaggerated because since February nearly everyone with COVID-19 that dies in hospital is categorized as a COVID-19 death. Guy has a massive heart attack and dies in the ER? wait, he had COVID-19? Cause of death: COVID-19. Another guy was diagnosed with COVID-19 in hospital and died? Wait, he got run over by a bus on his way home? Cause of death: COVID-19.

All COVID-19 humor aside, what's disingenuous about that chart is it reflects weekly averages as opposed to annual averages. On that note, do you know how many people died from influenza in the United States last year? 80,000. Mic drop.

That's not how we count Covid-19 deaths here, and I'm sure that applies for many other countries as well.

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bv
More than 38,000 people die every year USA from road accidents. If you divide by 12 that is 3,200 per month. During the past four weeks more than 40,000 people died from Covid-19 in USA, of which may be 1/3 in NY state alone. It does not take a master of science to understand that large numbers in a short time frame in a small geographic region is a complete crisis.

Fair enough, bv. However, I would ask that you consider how inflated that 38,000 figure is and, even if we accept 38,000 as true, how small that figure is in a nation of over 330 million. Of course, NY and the adjacent states are in crisis. Wyoming, for example? Not so much. So you see, I'm not suggesting COVID-19 is the flu, or that ALL measures be lifted. However these draconian "lockdown everyone from coast to coast" dictates masquerading as essential public safety measures are doing more harm than the virus itself. With the except of Japan, where I am, the rest of this region is already moving forward on reopening their nations. It does become inevitable one way or the other.

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StonedInTokyo

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bv
More than 38,000 people die every year USA from road accidents. If you divide by 12 that is 3,200 per month. During the past four weeks more than 40,000 people died from Covid-19 in USA, of which may be 1/3 in NY state alone. It does not take a master of science to understand that large numbers in a short time frame in a small geographic region is a complete crisis.

Fair enough, bv. However, I would ask that you consider how inflated that 38,000 figure is and, even if we accept 38,000 as true, how small that figure is in a nation of over 330 million. Of course, NY and the adjacent states are in crisis. Wyoming, for example? Not so much. So you see, I'm not suggesting COVID-19 is the flu, or that ALL measures be lifted. However these draconian "lockdown everyone from coast to coast" dictates masquerading as essential public safety measures are doing more harm than the virus itself. With the except of Japan, where I am, the rest of this region is already moving forward on reopening their nations. It does become inevitable one way or the other.

May be it is time to listen to the experts, like Dr. Anthony Fauci? There must be a reason why Dr Fauchi is standing next to the US president at the press briefings. This is in short his background:

Dr Fauci is widely recognized as one of the world's leading experts on infectious diseases. As a physician with the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Fauci has served American public health in various capacities for over 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan. He has been at the forefront of US efforts to contend with viral diseases like HIV, SARS, the 2009 swine flu pandemic, MERS, Ebola and COVID-19.

This is what Dr Fauchi just said:

Dr. Fauci Says Reopening Economy Too Quickly Could ‘Backfire’ (Time APRIL 20, 2020)

(WASHINGTON) — The top infectious-disease expert in the United States has a message for protesters who are ignoring their governors’ stay-at-home orders and calling for him to be fired over his guidelines.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says the message is “this is something that is hurting from the standpoint of economics, from the standpoint of things that have nothing to do with the virus.”

He added on ABC’s “Good Morning America” that “unless we get the virus under control, the real recovery economically is not gonna happen. So what you do if you jump the gun and go into a situation where you have a big spike, you’re gonna set yourself back.”

Fauci says as painful as it is to follow guidelines of gradually phasing into a reopening “it’s gonna backfire. That’s the problem.”

Bjornulf