Quote
MileHigh
It's totally ridiculous that the WHO, other health authorities, and the mainstream media are still not advising healthy people to wear N95 masks or better to protect themselves from sick people when they go out. They only talk about wearing a surgical-type mask so that you can protect others in case you are sick. It's totally counter-intuitive and unacceptable. We live in the Information Age and it's not easy to get the proper information. What does that say about us?

I agree but where are people going to get N95 masks? Hospitals are desperately trying to get them.

Quote
Rocknroll1969

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
Rocknroll1969
CNN said the United States is 4 percent of the worlds population. The United States has 28 percent of the Coronavirus cases. What does that say? I have been waiting for a Strong federal government response similar to what most European countries are doing.

I am totally baffled by your statement. Again, we live in the Information Age and at least with respect to this subject it's easy to find relevant information.

The US Military knew what was happening in China back in December. Trump was advised and did nothing. That’s what I call baffling.

He didn't do anything until late February. That's even more baffling.

Quote
Koen

Quote
Rocknroll1969

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
Rocknroll1969
CNN said the United States is 4 percent of the worlds population. The United States has 28 percent of the Coronavirus cases. What does that say? I have been waiting for a Strong federal government response similar to what most European countries are doing.

I am totally baffled by your statement. Again, we live in the Information Age and at least with respect to this subject it's easy to find relevant information.

The US Military knew what was happening in China back in December. Trump was advised and did nothing. That’s what I call baffling.

He didn't do anything until late February. That's even more baffling.

I agree that action could have been taken sooner. On the other hand there is a strong federal government response going on right now and there has been for some time.

Hindsight's always 20/20, hopefully we learn and are better prepared next time.

Quote
DGA35

Quote
MileHigh
It's totally ridiculous that the WHO, other health authorities, and the mainstream media are still not advising healthy people to wear N95 masks or better to protect themselves from sick people when they go out. They only talk about wearing a surgical-type mask so that you can protect others in case you are sick. It's totally counter-intuitive and unacceptable. We live in the Information Age and it's not easy to get the proper information. What does that say about us?

I agree but where are people going to get N95 masks? Hospitals are desperately trying to get them.

Not to be argumentative, but just like people complain about the government being late in taking action, if individuals took action early enough they would have had easy access to N95 masks. The writing was on the wall in January. Now that N95 masks are in mass production overdrive, I assume that production capacity will be greater than the needs of the medical professionals. They have to start selling N95 masks in volume to the public soon.

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
DGA35

Quote
MileHigh
It's totally ridiculous that the WHO, other health authorities, and the mainstream media are still not advising healthy people to wear N95 masks or better to protect themselves from sick people when they go out. They only talk about wearing a surgical-type mask so that you can protect others in case you are sick. It's totally counter-intuitive and unacceptable. We live in the Information Age and it's not easy to get the proper information. What does that say about us?

I agree but where are people going to get N95 masks? Hospitals are desperately trying to get them.

Not to be argumentative, but just like people complain about the government being late in taking action, if individuals took action early enough they would have had easy access to N95 masks. The writing was on the wall in January. Now that N95 masks are in mass production overdrive, I assume that production capacity will be greater than the needs of the medical professionals. They have to start selling N95 masks in volume to the public soon.

Production might be in overdrive but they're just scrambling to catch up. Nurses and doctors go through many throughout the day, not just a couple. It seems states in the US are competing with each other for limited supplies. And as far as the states goes, when the president says this will probably go away on its own by April, as well as they've got it under control, why would a person want to go out and try to buy them?

Quote
DGA35

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
DGA35

Quote
MileHigh
It's totally ridiculous that the WHO, other health authorities, and the mainstream media are still not advising healthy people to wear N95 masks or better to protect themselves from sick people when they go out. They only talk about wearing a surgical-type mask so that you can protect others in case you are sick. It's totally counter-intuitive and unacceptable. We live in the Information Age and it's not easy to get the proper information. What does that say about us?

I agree but where are people going to get N95 masks? Hospitals are desperately trying to get them.

Not to be argumentative, but just like people complain about the government being late in taking action, if individuals took action early enough they would have had easy access to N95 masks. The writing was on the wall in January. Now that N95 masks are in mass production overdrive, I assume that production capacity will be greater than the needs of the medical professionals. They have to start selling N95 masks in volume to the public soon.

Production might be in overdrive but they're just scrambling to catch up. Nurses and doctors go through many throughout the day, not just a couple. It seems states in the US are competing with each other for limited supplies. And as far as the states goes, when the president says this will probably go away on its own by April, as well as they've got it under control, why would a person want to go out and try to buy them?

Sometimes you have to listen to your own gut instincts. Trump was in wishful thinking and sales pitch mode. He was hoping that it would be under control but he was doing a sales pitch in stating it was going to be under control. When your words can affect markets and throw millions of people out of work you have to tread carefully. Eventually the switch gets flipped. If somebody acted when the Rhineland was remilitarized World War II could have been avoided. Just saying!

People are relying on their governments to provide accurate information and appropriate action to control the virus. Some will pass with flying colours and others will fail in varying degrees. Empty vessels make the most noise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 04:50 by rbp.

Quote
kovach
Hindsight's always 20/20, hopefully we learn and are better prepared next time.

This is 2020.

South Korea listened to the experts

(CNN)South Korea, "The US and the UK all reported their first Covid-19 cases around the same time: on January 20, January 21, and January 31, respectively. How things unfolded from there, unfortunately for the US and UK, has been strikingly different.

Today, South Korea is reporting less than 100 new cases a day, the UK is reporting around 4,000 new cases a day, and the US is reporting around 30,000.

On December 31, 2019, Chinese officials informed the World Health Organization they had identified an unknown pneumonia, and on January 10, with impressive speed, Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang of Fudan University, Shanghai, published the virus's RNA sequence. (An RNA sequence can be used as the basis of a diagnostic test.)

By February 4, Kogene Biotech of Seoul had not only developed one but had also had it approved by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC). And by February 10, was reporting its findings on the first 2,776 people to have been tested.

Yet the US and many of its peers could have been prepared.
President Barack Obama, for example, had established the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense within the National Security Council, specifically to anticipate pandemics such as Covid-19. But two years ago, the Trump administration forced out the directorate's leadership and fused its rump into a new directorate for counterproliferation.

Britain under Boris Johnson has been as insouciant. Johnson advocated striking a balance between restrictive measures and a strategy of "taking it on the chin," under which increasing numbers of people would become infected until the virus would "move through the population."
But, as the interviewers protested during the very interview at which Johnson revealed his strategy, his policy was bound to fail because Britain's hospitals, under its single-payer National Health Service, lacked the capacity to handle the influx."
[www.cnn.com]

Quote
Rocknroll1969

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
Rocknroll1969
CNN said the United States is 4 percent of the worlds population. The United States has 28 percent of the Coronavirus cases. What does that say? I have been waiting for a Strong federal government response similar to what most European countries are doing.

I am totally baffled by your statement. Again, we live in the Information Age and at least with respect to this subject it's easy to find relevant information.

The US Military knew what was happening in China back in December. Trump was advised and did nothing. That’s what I call baffling.

That ABC report about a Defense Intelligence Agency reporting "late November ... that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population" has prompted the Defense Intelligent Agency, which by policy does not comment on media reports, to take the unusual action of saying the report "is not correct. No such NCMI product exists".

Also, regarding when the Trump administration was briefed, the ABC report states that news did not reach the President "until early January". That was around the time, other news about the disease was reaching the administration, including non-alarming reports from the WHO through Jan 28th.

So if the ABC report is correct, that news makes China's behavior far, far worse. Their local officials would have known about it in November too. If the ABC report is true, China's response has been criminally negligent to the world.

I don't know if the ABC report is correct. I doubt if it is completely accurate, because the DIA would likely get caught if it was lying. But there might be some truth to the ABC report; and if so, that says a lot more about how China's terribly deceptive response has hurt the world.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 07:23 by IGTBA.

Quote
MisterDDDD
Britain under Boris Johnson has been as insouciant. Johnson advocated striking a balance between restrictive measures and a strategy of "taking it on the chin," under which increasing numbers of people would become infected until the virus would "move through the population."
But, as the interviewers protested during the very interview at which Johnson revealed his strategy, his policy was bound to fail because Britain's hospitals, under its single-payer National Health Service, lacked the capacity to handle the influx."
[www.cnn.com]

I'm sure that the quote is accurate, and that in turn it correctly describes Boris' policy at the time of the interview it reports.

I hate doing this, but in defence of Boris, he changed his policy on about 15th/16th March when he got the Imperial College modelling that revealed that his then policy (monitoring) could well lead to 250,000 deaths in the UK, and that a policy of shutdowns etc (supression) would lead to far fewer deaths.

ie His original policy was shown to be bad, he got evidence, he changed it.

In retrospect it can be argued that he changed it about a week too late. But I'm sure that plenty of books and PhD theses will be written about that nuance.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Special Report: Johnson listened to his scientists about coronavirus - but they were slow to sound the alarm (Reuters - April 8, 2020)

(URL link updated)

LONDON (Reuters) - It was early spring when British scientists laid out the bald truth to their government. It was “highly likely,” they said, that there was now “sustained transmission” of COVID-19 in the United Kingdom.

If unconstrained and if the virus behaved as in China, up to four-fifths of Britons could be infected and one in a hundred might die, wrote the scientists, members of an official committee set up to model the spread of pandemic flu, on March 2. Their assessment didn’t spell it out, but that was a prediction of over 500,000 deaths in this nation of nearly 70 million.

Yet the next day, March 3, Prime Minister Boris Johnson was his cheery self. He joked that he was still shaking hands with everyone, including at a hospital treating coronavirus patients.

Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 11:10 by bv.

BV, the link above leads to this NYT article:

Angry Fans Say First the Concerts Were Canceled, Then the Refunds

It’s a general report on the current status of the concert ticket industry and the lack of refunds.

Not that I didn’t mind reading it mind you.

Quote
KingmanBarstow
BV, the link above leads to this NYT article:

Angry Fans Say First the Concerts Were Canceled, Then the Refunds

It’s a general report on the current status of the concert ticket industry and the lack of refunds.

Not that I didn’t mind reading it mind you.

Here's the link. I put this up on the tour thread earlier. Won't hurt to have both places as many people are concerned about the situation.

[www.nytimes.com]

Morning grzegorz67,Yes, I remember the tram and meeting you..I hope you are well and you were off to Poland the next day....Funny getting near 2 Year's since the last European tour.....And this weekend more shops will be open...The Weather is perfect I went for a stroll last night along the river...Many people out but also lot's of Police making sure everyone has a mask on and keeping social distance....People here are taking it well and getting creative in spending there time...If all goes well by the end of the month we should be back to "Normal"On another note many people i know when this is done will be moving home .....Back to there country as Family is the most Important thing...Going to be a quiet Summer...Take Care ...Talk soon.M

Here's an article about the amount of time it is taking to get test results in Washington state. It is taking up to 11 days now to get test results, which is absurd. I was unhappy when it took 8 days to get my results. It appears to me that a more unified approach between the health care providers would be beneficial.

[www.seattletimes.com]

With all due respect to MileHigh, who was clearly ahead of the curve...
Masks in the UK have been unobtainable for the general public for some time, and the shortage of personal protection equipment of all kinds for even our health workers is a national scandal. What there is, is going to the NHS, as it should. Internationally, being a mask manufacturer at the moment is a licence to print money, with shipments being diverted (sometimes in transit) to the highest bidder - which is often the US.

This virus is never going away completely. What will happen is that it will become another annual nasty which may land you in intensivs care if you are unlucky, but with a much lower transmission rate, and eventually a vaccine, health services will be able to cope with it. The tragedy at the moment is not just the Covid deaths, but the other deaths of people whose intensive care bed was occupied by a Covid victim when they needed it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 10:59 by Green Lady.

Quote
KingmanBarstow
BV, the link above leads to this NYT article:

Angry Fans Say First the Concerts Were Canceled, Then the Refunds

It’s a general report on the current status of the concert ticket industry and the lack of refunds.

Not that I didn’t mind reading it mind you.

Thanks for telling. I updated the link.
I had both pages up next to each other.
Both very interesting reports.
The other one was posted in the Stones Tour 2020 pages by crholmstrom:

Angry Fans Say First the Concerts Were Canceled, Then the Refunds (New York Times - April 8, 2020)

Bjornulf

South Florida cases on the rise

[www.thedailybeast.com]

Quote
Kerryann

Quote
Aquamarine

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
In a show of leadership seldom demonstrated, Jacinda Ardern, PM of New Zealand responded to concerns expressed by children by signing a proclamation declaring the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy to be essential workers. Full props to her for realizing that kids need this kind of assurance or normalcy during a crisis, and not being afraid to sweat the small stuff to deliver that assurance. (Oh, they’re also flattening the curve like crazy... this is in addition to the big stuff, not instead of it...)

[www.washingtonpost.com]

She is a real leader--I've admired her ever since seeing her handling of the mosque killings.

Yes our NZ prime minister certainly is very good at self promotion. There were calls to shut our border weeks before she did but she was hell bent on having a one year memorial for the mosque shooting with all the bigwigs from the world media in attendance first. She was even promoting crowd gatherings and hand shaking. In the end she was forced to cancel the commemoration one day before it was due to take place due to pressure from the people to ban large gatherings and shut the border, but still managed some media coverage of her dressed in a headscarve. Being an Island if we had acted when we should have we likely wouldn't be in lockdown now with the economic carnage it is causing. Vast majority of our cases came from travellers. So yea, great prime minister whos main ambition is a seat on the UN and will do anything to get there. We need more substance than hugs and fairytales.

This post is just hilarious. Out of the Anglosphere, we definitely responded the best and with the most effective measures. Ardern has hardly put a foot wrong through this, and has acted on information given to her form the experts and scientists. It's very easy to sit back and say 'oh we should have done closed the borders earlier'. Everybody parroting that same line has an ideological axe to grind. I'm sure Bridges would have done a much better job (not).

The vast, vast majority of cases that came as a result of travellers is returning NZ citizens, whom you can't, and, should not be turning away from entering the country. So please, enlighten me as to how closing the border earlier would have had any effect on returning NZ citizens? You can't.

I'm willing to bet that if this was a National govt and not a Labour one you wouldn't be parroting this rhetoric.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 12:17 by erad.

Quote
IGTBA
The US is counting COVID 19 deaths, by counting anyone who tested, or is presumed, positive who dies. So those who are very old and/or have serious other conditions will be counted as COVID 19 deaths, if they tested or were were presumed to be positive for the virus. That will make US deaths look worse on a worldwide scale, but it is indicative of the seriousness of COVID 19.

Does anyone believe the US already has more than three times the deaths from COVID 19 as China??? That's what the numbers show! The WHO numbers! What does that say about the veracity of the WHO's numbers?

There is nothing extraordinary in the way the US counts COVID 19 deaths. That's the way it is done all over the world, and, for example, is also used in counting 'normal' influenza deaths. Plus there is the indirect effect, which does not show in stats, that of hot spots causing death for non-related emergency cases due to over-traffic in hospitals. Anyway, the numbers in Western & non-authoritian countries are rather comparable as far as deaths go (but, of course, the confirmed cases are not, since the testing policy differs from country to country). But yeah, there are countries offering numbers with which we should be a bit suspicious about (such as China, Russia, Turkey, etc). The WHO cannot be accountable for that, since it is up to the countries themselves what kind of information they offer and choose to share. With the limited resources they have, WHO are not any intelligence agency.

- Doxa

Please stop the blame game!

Let us look ahead, be creative, and then learn from the history. There are enough smart brains in the world to get our normal life back. First gradually, by opening up, then by a vaccine made in record time.

No One Wins the Blame Game (liberationist.org)

“You do not blame your shadow for the shape of your body: Just the same: Do not blame others for the shape of your experience.”?—?Gillian Duce

If something goes wrong, then someone other than myself must be blamed for causing the situation. That’s the rule of the blame game.

Bill Gates: This is how long it may take before Americans ‘can be completely safe’ from COVID-19 (CNBC - Apr 8 20201:23 PM EDT)

It might not be until fall 2021 that Americans “can be completely safe” from COVID-19, Bill Gates said in a Tuesday interview with Judy Woodruff on PBS Newshour.

That’s because it will take more than a year before a vaccine can be developed and deployed, according to researchers working to develop a treatment for COVID-19.

Bill Gates says he’ll spend billions on coronavirus vaccine development (The Wall Street Journal / Marketwatch / April 6, 2020)

Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates said his foundation will spend billions of dollars to fund the construction of factories for the most promising efforts to develop a vaccine to combat the novel coronavirus.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-09 13:34 by bv.

Trump scapegoating of WHO obscures its key role in tackling pandemic

[www.theguardian.com]

IHME_UW

We project that demand for hospital beds in many European countries will exceed supply. For example, we project that the UK will need 102,794 hospital beds at the peak, compared to 17,765 available, a shortage of 85,029 beds
[twitter.com]

Resources needed for COVID-19 patients on peak date
All beds needed
102,794beds

All beds available
17,765beds
[covid19.healthdata.org]

Coronavirus shuts down San Francisco Bay Area: Photos show how life has changed
(The San Francisco Chronicle - April 7, 2020)

Bjornulf

Quote
Beast
Trump scapegoating of WHO obscures its key role in tackling pandemic

[www.theguardian.com]

As pandemic deepens, Trump cycles through targets to blame

NEW YORK (AP) — First, it was the media that was at fault. Then, Democratic governors came under fire. China, President Barack Obama and federal watchdogs have all had a turn in the crosshairs. And now it’s the World Health Organization that’s to blame.

President Donald Trump is falling back on a familiar political strategy as he grapples with the coronavirus pandemic: deflect, deny and direct blame elsewhere"
[apnews.com]

Quote
Beast
Trump scapegoating of WHO obscures its key role in tackling pandemic

[www.theguardian.com]

CNN had an interview with the Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg yesterday. They asked her about the WHO defunding comment from the US president. She had a very clear message: Now it is even more import than ever to stand united all countries, and to INCREASE the funding of WHO, so that we may fight the corona virus pandemi together.

Norwegian PM: Defunding WHO the 'wrong decision' (CNN Video April 8, 2020)

Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg tells Amanpour how her country turned the tide on Coronavirus and why the WHO needs to be "built up" following this crisis.Source: CNN

Bjornulf

Quote
Beast
Trump scapegoating of WHO obscures its key role in tackling pandemic

[www.theguardian.com]

Great article Beast, thanks for sharing.

Outdoor activities require stricter social distancing, Belgian study suggests
People exercising outdoors during the coronavirus lockdown should apply social-distancing rules that are stricter than those officially recommended, a new study suggests.

"Researchers at KU Leuven and at the Eindhoven University of Technology created simulations showing how those working out outdoors could be exposing themselves to the new coronavirus (Covid-19) even when staying 1.5 metres apart.

The simulations show that the respiratory droplets of someone potentially infected with the virus could come into contact with anyone located behind them by travelling through what he referred to as a slipstream."
[www.brusselstimes.com]