Quote
dcba
In the race to the bottom France has just taken the lead : on top of the 1000's of deaths caused by Covid-19, lack of medical supplies and economic crisis we just had another terrorist attack.
A Sudanese refugee who couldn't continue living in a country of "disbelievers" stabbed 7 people in the street. 2 died.

This is just the beginning! France is getting ready to free 5-6000 prisoners to keep prison popluations under control in light of the Coronavirus situation...

[www.huffingtonpost.fr]

Needless to say, I prefer the Phillipine approach to keeping people in line, freeing criminals just sends out the worst message!

About masks.

I live in Norway. The current - as of today Sunday April 5 - recommendation from our health authorities, is NOT to wear masks.

By understanding the mask vs no mask issue, you need to use your brain and you need to read all the pro's and con's and understand that this is not a singular question.

Japan have been using masks for many years, and when I travel to Japan, I sure see why it makes sense. The metro in Tokyo is packed. Your face is less than a hand from many other faces. There is no way you may have two meters i.e. 6 feet or more from other faces. So Japan have been using masks for decades, not for protecting from others, but in order to prevent others from getting the cold or the flu they do have at present.

WHO just issued a statement saying that wearing masks is recommended. Then, at the same time, you need to know that using a mask do need skills. In Japan they have been using masks for many years, they know how to wear them, how to put them oin, and how to take them off. If you plan to wear a mask, then you must read the following, otherwise you make it worse:

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) advice for the public: When and how to use masks (WHO)

Some say WHO and the authorities have been misleading about masks. Then you forget one important information. It was not until March when the western world learned how fast the virus move on. We also learned that the virus move on BEFORE you feel sick, BEFORE you get a fever, so that taking the forehead temperature or wearing a mask when you feel sick is simply too late. May be 30% to 40% do carry - and pass on - the corona virus WITHOUT feeling sick. That is why WHO now recommend wearing masks. The virus move on when people talk, not just by sneezing or coughing. That is simply new information we did not have back in Jan/Feb 2020.

If you still do not understand how fast the virus spread, this is two great articles worth reading:

A Mount Vernon choir went ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens have coronavirus and 2 are dead. (Seattle Times March 29, 2020)

How two funerals helped turn one small Georgia city into a hotspot for coronavirus (CNN April 3, 2020)

So we do know one important thing by now, which we did not know in Jan, Feb or March 2020: The virus spread through people talking. Also, the closer you talk, and the more minutes you spend together, the more virus you get into your mouth and throat, and the more fatal the outcome will be.

If you pick up just a small microbit of the virus from a paper, then touch your mouth, then the virus will spend hours and days moving into your throat, and down to your lungs. Your body will have lots of time to build antibodies, and the covid-19 disease might touch you lightly, because it takes time before your lungs get the hard fight. On the other hand, if you stay close in a metro/tube with sick people for half an hour, you do get an overdose, deep down in your throat, and the chance of getting pneumonia or other serious side effects is much larger, The virus hit you like a hammer within 24 - 48 hours.

Then back to masks:

If you live in a highly populated city, or if you have to move around in a packed metro/tube, elevator or other places, then wearing a mask is great. It will slow down the virus.

If you live in Norway, where almost every single person now keep 3 meter i.e. 10 feet apart, and there are may be one person or just three persons on the bus or on the metro van, then there is a large distance, and no need to wear masks.

Some say the US president should wear a mask. He does not take the metro, he does not take the elevator with lots of strangers, so even if it might be a nice gesture as making an example, there is no real medical need for it. You do not wear a mask at home, and you do not wear a mask if you work in your garden, if you have a large garden on your own.

Finally, masks is a limited item. The real masks used at hospitals are needed at hospitals. There is no need to take away those masks from the hospitals. If you really want to use a mask, then find a needle and a thread, and make one on your own. It may not be perfect, i.e. it might not take away 90% of the virus, but say if you use a scarf type of 2-3 layers of some high density textile, you may block 70% of the virus you might pass on to others, which would be great.

Finally, I just wish people could think and read and understand a bit, before they claim or state something about masks. New information is getting available every day. We do know more about the virus every day. If people understand and act like the experts say, then we will contain the virus and keep on with our lives a lot faster than otherwise.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 12:32 by bv.

I'm using mask & gloves the few times I go out per both of my main doctors' orders. Since I am high risk with immune system issues, it is a sensible precaution. I do know that they do not make me invincible. Also, I have to keep a supply of both around because after chemo I am especially vulnerable so I didn't have any sort of effect on the supply chain. Have had the current stash for months. I post on the Cure (band) Community Forum & 1 of my friends there is a nurse for neurosurgery in Denmark. Her name is ninja & she recently went through pandemic training in case she is needed there. Following are her thoughts on using mask & gloves in the current situation. She wanted to share with as many people as she can.

PLEASE!!! If you decide to wear gloves, please be careful!!!
You will still contaminate with gloves on, but of course your hands will be (almost) virus free!
Be very carefull when taking the gloves (and if you use masks) off. The risk for getting virus on your hands is extremely high during the process of taking it off, if you don’t know how to do it correct!!!

I’m only using gloves at the hospital, but outside the hospital, I’m not using anything but water, soap and occationally hand sanitizer - if I don’t have access to soap and water!

BUT IF YOU WEAR MASKS AND GLOVES, THIS IS THE CORRECT WAY TO TAKE IT OFF:

First gloves off, then hand sanitize for 10 sec.
Then the mask the following way:
First the upper band. Tie it up as far away from the face as possible and the the same with the lower band.
Hand sanitize again for 10-20 sec.

Every time you use handsanitizer, make sure to use plenty, so your hands are generously covered and pretty wet.
Rub hands until they are totally dry! Don’t let them air dry, but rub!

An ordinary surgical mask will probably not protect enough agains aerosoles, then you need a ffp2 or 3 mask, and you can max use that 3-5 hrs a day, or else they can cause serious lung damages!

COVID 19 is mostly drop born, and will not be in the air for more than a few secs. Then it will fall to the ground, so think that everything from the ground and aprox 20 cm up is “unclean”

In Denmark, at least the part of denmark I’m living in, we have really good statistics alteady.
I went to pandemic training last week, and that was so amazing!
I’m now a group 4, so that means that I’m a part of the last group to participate.
I don’t hope it will be realistic, because we have plenty at my uaual ward, and only one respirator, because the rest are at the pandemic wards.

I hope people will behave during easter, so Denmark can come back to normal again.

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

Some are saying that there are several strains of COVID-19.

In my city here in Wa they have started drive thru testing for the virus.
Glad to finally see it. The more testing and distancing the quicker we flatten the curve.

Whatcom opens drive-through site to test high-risk populations for coronavirus

“By creating these opportunities for priority population testing, the health department aims to free up capacity at other medical provider or clinical agency testing locations for the public,” said Cindy Hollinsworth, communicable disease and epidemiology manager for the health department, in a news release."
[www.bellinghamherald.com]?

Quote
Chris Fountain

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

Some are saying that there several strains of COVID-19.

There are 8 strains currently identified
There are a few reports of individuals becoming reinfected

No politics. No politics. Delete. Delete. Delete. OK?

Bjornulf

Quote
MisterDDDD
Under Fire For Coronavirus Response, Trump Officials Defend Disbanding Pandemic Team

"Anticipating the likely investigation into their handling of the coronavirus outbreak, current and former Trump Administration officials are starting to push back on widespread allegations that the Administration’s cuts to critical global health staffing and funding may have hampered its response. Much of that attention has focused on the 2018 disbanding of a National Security Council unit focused on pandemic preparedness, which critics say left a leadership vacuum in global health security at the White House.

“We worked very well with that office,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Congress on March 11. “It would be nice if the office was still there.”
[time.com]

Why is this not a political message? It is filled with half truths,unsubstantiated information and insignificant conclusions all criticizing the US government

Quote
Chris Fountain

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

Some are saying that there are several strains of COVID-19.

"Some are saying ... several strains"? Documentation?

FACT:

The coronavirus mutates more slowly than the flu — which means a vaccine will likely be effective long-term (Business Insider Mar 26, 2020)

Bjornulf

Excellent Article !! Thanks for posting. Apologies for not citing source but there have been repeat cases as the original poster reported.It is common knowledge at this point. However, as the article states - that doesn't necessarily mean it is due to a different strain. At least that is how I interpret the article.

Thanks for the clarification.

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Taylor1

Quote
MisterDDDD
Under Fire For Coronavirus Response, Trump Officials Defend Disbanding Pandemic Team

"Anticipating the likely investigation into their handling of the coronavirus outbreak, current and former Trump Administration officials are starting to push back on widespread allegations that the Administration’s cuts to critical global health staffing and funding may have hampered its response. Much of that attention has focused on the 2018 disbanding of a National Security Council unit focused on pandemic preparedness, which critics say left a leadership vacuum in global health security at the White House.

“We worked very well with that office,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Congress on March 11. “It would be nice if the office was still there.”
[time.com]

Why is this not a political message? It is filled with half truths,unsubstantiated information and insignificant conclusions all criticizing the US government

There is a big difference in facts based posts and personal political opinions. I think it is important for everyone to know what their leaders have done in the past. I am NOT going to accept a discussion about republicans vs democrats in USA, and I am NOT going to accept any discussions on who is better or who is worse in politics, but there are some facts that may not be disputed, like these, all reports in leading news:

'Gross misjudgment': Experts say Trump's decision to disband pandemic team hindered coronavirus response (USA Today Mar 18, 2020)

In May 2018, President Donald Trump’s biodefense preparedness adviser warned that a flu pandemic was the country’s No. 1 health security threat, and the U.S. was not prepared.

“We know that it cannot be stopped at the border,” Luciana Borio, director of medical and biodefense preparedness at the National Security Council, said at a symposium that day.

Borio left the Trump administration in 2019. Other high-level global health experts headed for the exits even earlier, after the White House dismantled the National Security Council’s global health security office.

The US Just Proposed Massive Cuts to Funding for World Health Organization (Global Citizen FEB. 12, 2020)

The Trump administration's newly unveiled budget proposal cuts nearly $65 million in funding to the World Health Organization (WHO). This cut would equate to more than a 50% decrease in funding from the US compared to the previous fiscal year, according to CNN.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 14:39 by bv.

Since the infection and death rate in Western Europe and Uk is as bad as the United States none of the “ lack of preparedness “ was unique to the United States.May e the fact this was a new virus with no vaccine which is unprecedented in its contagiousness and China withholding necessary information about it was the reason for the pandemics deadly spread

Italy and Spain may have reached the top of the curve, after weeks of terrible numbers:

Italy coronavirus deaths pass 15,000 but intensive care numbers drop for first time (The Local Italy / AFP / 4 April 2020)

Coronavirus outbreaks plateau in Italy and Spain (Financial Times APRIL 3 2020)

Bjornulf

Yes BV ,Richard form italy ....

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Taylor1
Since the infection and death rate in Western Europe and Uk is as bad as the United States none of the “ lack of preparedness “ was unique to the United States.May e the fact this was a new virus with no vaccine which is unprecedented in its contagiousness and China withholding necessary information about it was the reason for the pandemics deadly spread

Agreed!

here in italy the factors of the propagation of the covid are manifold, many errors by the institutions, everything had to be closed when oms raised the alarm in italy on 22 january, milan arrived 3 flights from china and the virus spread everywhere, we have a very long-lived population with serious pathologies in hospitals despite good health, but unfortunately the virus has been walking for a month undisturbed amid seasonal flu, here is a virus and economic disaster ...

Quote
Taylor1
Since the infection and death rate in Western Europe and Uk is as bad as the United States none of the “ lack of preparedness “ was unique to the United States.May e the fact this was a new virus with no vaccine which is unprecedented in its contagiousness and China withholding necessary information about it was the reason for the pandemics deadly spread

China told WHO i.e. the world on Dec 31, 2019 about the virus. Sure they held back information for 6 weeks or so, but everyone in the world, all world leaders, all health authorities, knew about the virus as from the very first day this year i.e. from Jan 1, 2020.

I think it is about time to stop blaming China, who took immediate action, after 6 weeks of trying to figure out what to do and what to say. Many western countries, who in fact do have well functioning leaders in politics and health, were told more than three - 3 - months ago, but many did little or nothing for more than two - 2- months, until mid to late March 2020.

Meanwhile, WHO have been saying for months and months since January: Test, test, test, keep a distance, still many places in the world do not test a lot, and people do still meet up in restaurants, they do still have schools open, business as usual. Blame the mess in the west on China? Pretty far fetched, in my opinion.

Timeline of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic from November 2019 to January 2020 (Wikipedia)

Bjornulf

Here in the U.K. there are a growing number of conspiracy theorists claiming the virus did not start in China but is in fact a man made disease being omitted from 5G telephone masts in order to kill off the older generation.


Nate

A lot of countries in the world have been sleeping in class, when it comes to taking action on the virus, but there are big differences in the numbers:

South Korea:
Located very close to China, as close as it gets, but they test a lot and took action immediately. A country of 51 million people, they have a total of 183 deaths from the corona virus, i.e. 0.36 per 100,000 people in the population.

Finland:
Population of 5.5 million, 25 deaths from the virus, i.e. 0.45 per 100,000 people in the population.

Spain and Italy have got 25 deaths per 100,000 people in their population, i.e. sixty - 60 - times more fatalities vs South Korea and Finland.

Germany:
A large country of 83 million people, having 1,446 deaths, i.e. 1.7 of 100,000 people, i.e. Spain and Italy have 15 times the fatalities vs Germany.

We all got the info about the virus early January. Still, the problem is 15-60 times bigger in some countries. This is for sure based on how fast the leaders acted in each country, and what actions they took. Still, in some countries, people mingle in restaurants, still, people do not care. I am shattered shattered shattered, but please do not blame China, when people have been stacking up toilet paper for weeks and weeks, while the leaders have done little or nothing except talking without actions.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 15:40 by bv.

Quote
Nate
Here in the U.K. there are a growing number of conspiracy theorists claiming the virus did not start in China but is in fact a man made disease being omitted from 5G telephone masts in order to kill off the older generation.


Nate

Ha ha bonkers!

Quote
bv

Quote
Taylor1
Since the infection and death rate in Western Europe and Uk is as bad as the United States none of the “ lack of preparedness “ was unique to the United States.May e the fact this was a new virus with no vaccine which is unprecedented in its contagiousness and China withholding necessary information about it was the reason for the pandemics deadly spread

China told WHO i.e. the world on Dec 31, 2019 about the virus. Sure they held back information for 6 weeks or so, but everyone in the world, all world leaders, all health authorities, knew about the virus as from the very first day this year i.e. from Jan 1, 2020.

I think it is about time to stop blaming China, who took immediate action, after 6 weeks of trying to figure out what to do and what to say. Many western countries, who in fact do have well functioning leaders in politics and health, were told more than three - 3 - months ago, but many did little or nothing for more than two - 2- months, until mid to late March 2020.

Meanwhile, WHO have been saying for months and months since January: Test, test, test, keep a distance, still many places in the world do not test a lot, and people do still meet up in restaurants, they do still have schools open, business as usual. Blame the mess in the west on China? Pretty far fetched, in my opinion.

Timeline of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic from November 2019

yes BV ... it had to close all January 1 ... the whole world ... in 2 months the problem was solved .. all over the world .... instead of health the governments have thought about the economy. ..and now we are dealing with the dead ... and all the disaster that will come in the coming months and years until the vaccine or cure covid 19 ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 15:42 by bv.

More than 40 spring breakers who ignored public health advice test positive for coronavirus

(CNN) — Dozens of spring breakers from Texas boarded a plane for fun and came home with coronavirus.
About 70 people in their 20s chartered a plane from Austin, Texas, to Mexico for spring break two weeks ago. They went against the advice of White House officials who asked that people avoid gathering in groups of more than 10 and nonessential air travel.
Now 44 of those people have tested positive for coronavirus -- all of them University of Texas at Austin students, a university spokesman told CNN on Wednesday."
[edition.cnn.com]

Hopeful that news of this hits home with the younger generation. Between this and the choir incident here in Wa, it is obvious that any large gatherings are extremely unsafe regardless of age.
I live in what is considered a hot spot, and my two next door neighbors are young and continue to have gatherings in their homes, back yard bbq's etc.
Doesn't worry me personally, but I do get resentful as I am following the guidelines and haven't seen many family members since this started. My wife is an emergency dispatcher, and the vast majority of virus related calls are people snitching on others for non compliance. Would never do that but can understand the frustration. Everyone really does need to follow the guidelines.

Not true.China did not give the gene sequence to the rest of the world until January 13 .The world knew there was a virus but not its contagiousness.China in December muzzled the brave Chinese doctors from telling the world what they knew.Moreover the defense of China is specious.They didn’t tell the world it could be transferred from person to person until the end of January.China then kicked out all western journalists who were investigating the origin of the Coronavirus s in Wuhan .Did it come from the food market? From the Wuhan Lab.OXFORD RESEARCH said in a study that hadChina govt not delayed in letting the world know all abou the virus,95 percent of the world would not have been infected

Quote
stones2

Quote
bv

Quote
Taylor1
Since the infection and death rate in Western Europe and Uk is as bad as the United States none of the “ lack of preparedness “ was unique to the United States.May e the fact this was a new virus with no vaccine which is unprecedented in its contagiousness and China withholding necessary information about it was the reason for the pandemics deadly spread

China told WHO i.e. the world on Dec 31, 2019 about the virus. Sure they held back information for 6 weeks or so, but everyone in the world, all world leaders, all health authorities, knew about the virus as from the very first day this year i.e. from Jan 1, 2020.

I think it is about time to stop blaming China, who took immediate action, after 6 weeks of trying to figure out what to do and what to say. Many western countries, who in fact do have well functioning leaders in politics and health, were told more than three - 3 - months ago, but many did little or nothing for more than two - 2- months, until mid to late March 2020.

Meanwhile, WHO have been saying for months and months since January: Test, test, test, keep a distance, still many places in the world do not test a lot, and people do still meet up in restaurants, they do still have schools open, business as usual. Blame the mess in the west on China? Pretty far fetched, in my opinion.

Timeline of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic from November 2019

yes BV ... it had to close all January 1 ... the whole world ... in 2 months the problem was solved .. all over the world .... instead of health the governments have thought about the economy. ..and now we are dealing with the dead ... and all the disaster that will come in the coming months and years until the vaccine or cure covid 19 ...

South Korea did not close. Singapore did not close. China did not close. However, they contained the areas and the people infected. This is only possible through testing. Testing a lot. Testing, then location every sick person, who they met, then isolating these people and so on.

Imagine you have 100,000 snipers in the country, and you do not bother to locate them, you just add road blocks. Will you stop all snipers? Not really. You need to locate and isolate. Closing down countries 100% will ruin the economy. Testing is imperial, wide spread testing, then isolation of every sick person 100%. That is the only way to re-open the countries for business.

Bjornulf

500 people here in Italy stopped at home with the covid, turned undisturbed in supermarkets, were stopped and arrested, they certainly infected, we have the usual idiots who do not understand the big and serious problem, if we do not all cooperate, the virus will remain among we ...

Quote
Taylor1
Not true.China did not give the gene sequence to the rest of the world until January 13 .The world knew there was a virus but not its contagiousness.China in December muzzled the brave Chinese doctors from telling the world what they knew.Moreover the defense of China is specious.They didn’t tell the world it could be transferred from person to person until the end of January.China then kicked out all western journalists who were investigating the origin of the Coronavirus s in Wuhan .Did it come from the food market? From the Wuhan Lab.OXFORD RESEARCH said in a study that hadChina govt not delayed in letting the world know all abou the virus,95 percent of the world would not have been infected

WHO had a test ready mid January. USA i.e. CDC wanted to make their own test so it took a while (two months) until it worked out properly.

WHO and CDC never discussed providing international test kits to the US, global health agency says (CNN March 18, 2020)

As the United States struggled to launch testing for the novel coronavirus using kits developed by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the World Health Organization shipped hundreds of thousands of tests to countries around the world. The United States, Jasarevic confirmed, doesn't ordinarily rely on WHO for tests because the US typically has the capacity to manufacture its own diagnostics.

Diagnostic detection of 2019-nCoV by real-time RT-PCR (WHO Jan 17, 2020)

Testing for COVID-19 (CDC Mar 21, 2020)

Bjornulf

U.S. ‘wasted’ months before preparing for virus pandemic

WASHINGTON (AP) — As the first alarms sounded in early January that an outbreak of a novel coronavirus in China might ignite a global pandemic, the Trump administration squandered nearly two months that could have been used to bolster the federal stockpile of critically needed medical supplies and equipment.

A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.
[apnews.com]

"Waited until mid march to begin placing bulk orders"

When will a coronavirus vaccine be ready?

“Like most vaccinologists, I don’t think this vaccine will be ready before 18 months,” says Annelies Wilder-Smith, professor of emerging infectious diseases at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. That’s already extremely fast, and it assumes there will be no hitches.

When will a coronavirus vaccine be ready? (The Guardian UK - Sun 5 Apr 2020)

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 16:20 by bv.

Positive Times during Pandemic:



1. Your Dog is Happy.
2. The Cat my not be.
3. Watching Movies missed.
4. More time outside - to exercise ( run wind sprints- jump rope, do planks , etc..) Extend the workouts and don't "lolly -gag"
5. Listen to 60s Pop Music on XM and dance with wife and dog
6. Read books even old ref books to brush up on work skills
7. Call old friends or send e-mails!
8. Grill out food everyday!

Deleted - didn't see the other thread



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-05 21:51 by ohotos.