Herald Sun -- 3 April 2020



ROCKMAN

Quote
bv
There is a reason why people are asked to keep more than 2 meter / 6 feet distance. Still some leaders run PR conferences with a bunch of people a whole lot closer. History will tell how smart that is.

Yes, and if these leaders can not even get the social distancing correct in their own press conferences - how can we believe they are
competent enough to make the correct decisions to battle this virus!

anybody who has had Corona and recovered (or knows someone who has) should contact their doctor and ask about donating blood.

it may have valuable antibodies to help w/ research and/or help others....

[www.wsj.com]

or this post, if you don't wanna subscribe to WSJ:

[www.usatoday.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 00:19 by stickyfingers101.

This an hour long, but worth watching. A few technical glitches at the start, just keep watching. It is a NYC doctor who treats Covid-19 patients all day advising how to keep yourself and your family safe.

[youtu.be]

Political statements will be deleted. If they are repeated the posting access will be deleted. If you do not like WHO, or your prime minister, or your president, or somebody else, please do not start campaigns about that here. Thank you.

Bjornulf

Washington state stay at home order has been extended to May 4.

[www.seattletimes.com]

Latest chart for Washington shows plenty of reason to extend the stay at home order. Number of cases is still rising rapidly.

More and more health orgs are recommending a mask. NYC mayor advised all residents to wear them in public today. [www.politico.com]
I have a couple homemade ones I'm now wearing in stores etc.

Joked about these early on, and now also have a couple of these on the way.
Don't look too bad, a place to insert filter etc (which are readily available), without impacting supply for medical professionals etc.

Rolling Stones "novelty face mask"

[www.amazon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 13:09 by MisterDDDD.

I am reminded of a wise old Sage who Bless his Soul who is no longer with us who taught me long ago that Politicians don't care about us , as they only care about there pockets and themselves . It does not matter at all what their party affiliation is , and the way you can tell if there are lying or not is when there lips are moving ! We have to look out for our families and loved ones as best as we can , and we must remember this is a human crisis of epic proportions . The pain and suffering and dying of so many of our fellow human beings is so cruel and really it is hard to wrap your mind around the constant and daily death toll going on all around us . Take care of your families and your selves as best as you can and God Help us please !

Life with the corona virus on photos:

How can photographers capture human connection in the age of coronavirus? (CNN)



Bruno Taveira took this photo in Cascais, Portugal. Of the photo he wrote, "Many people turn to supermarkets to buy essential goods, after the Portuguese government decreed a state of emergency." Credit: Bruno Taveira/Public Source

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 13:35 by bv.

This will be my 3rd shopping report since the lockdown in Norway Thursday March 12.

I loved to bike to the shop as often as I could. Any day. Every day. My wife asked me if I did really want to bike for the newspapers, or for oranges or apples, but all those biking trips were part of my daily life. After my biking accident on Sept 7 last year, I don't know if I will ever bike, may be in a year, I don't know. I am still not recovered, but I am improving. No more biking this year, for sure. I use to have an accident per year, no worries, some scratches, I love riding fast like 60 km/h (40 miles/h) downhill, offroad, any place, but now the hospitals are full, they don't want to see a stupid biker with a broken bone or a head injury.

So I am down to shopping one day per week, by car. First week Saturday morning at 7am, then 9am at the big store last week. Very few are up at those hours. The shop has been untouched for 8-12 hours, since closing the evening before, and I don't have to be close to other people. My wife hate shopping, I love it, except I don't love being close to others, who may potentially be carrying the virus.

Easter Holidays in Norway are eleven days of holidays, the biggest and most important holiday of the year outside summertime. Today people stop working, they go shopping, and they they would have left for their mountain cabins, but not this year. There is a ban of using cabins outside your own county. Still, shops are expected to be crowded, so I did my shopping this morning a 8am.

Very very few in the parking lot and in the shop. I walk in large circles past people, and others do the same. They say 2m / 6 ft minimum, but I like it the double. T here are antibacterial hand was at every shop entrance, and I use it both at entrance at exit. Then I wash my hands many many many times at home, and shower, feel like I have got a deadly virus every time I touch a plastic bag or a bread or an orange or anything I brought home from the store.

I got my wine earlier this week, no queues Tuesday at 10am, then I have beer, toilet paper, we have food for all of Easter, it feels like a war zone but I live in a rich country, I have no worries really. I am thinking of the homeless I saw many places on tour last year in Denver, Portland, Chicago, Phoenix, all over, and I wonder how they are now. Where do they sleep? How do they avoid the virus? How can they feel safe now?

The sun is shining. Yesterday we had some snow in the air at freezing point, but spring is here. We see the first spring flowers, the blackbird is singing already by 4am, long time before the sun is up, and the flowers and birds does not really pay any attention to the human worldwide crisis.

The Easter Holidays will be very different, that is for sure. Most of us stay at home, we do our best to keep the rest of us safe from the virus. Please please keep a distance, a big big distance, 2-3 m i.e. 6-9 feet at least, wash your hands often, don't let the virus move on, we will get through this within the next months.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 14:12 by bv.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 14:52 by EddieByword.

Quote
bv
This will be my 3rd shopping report since the lockdown in Norway Thursday March 12.

I loved to bike to the shop as often as I could. Any day. Every day. My wife asked me if I did really want to bike for the newspapers, or for oranges or apples, but all those biking trips were part of my daily life. After my biking accident on Sept 7 last year, I don't know if I will ever bike, may be in a year, I don't know. I am still not recovered, but I am improving. No more biking this year, for sure. I use to have an accident per year, no worries, some scratches, I love riding fast like 60 km/h (40 miles/h) downhill, offroad, any place, but now the hospitals are full, they don't want to see a stupid biker with a broken bone or a head injury.

So I am down to shopping one day per week, by car. First week Saturday morning at 7am, then 9am at the big store last week. Very few are up at those hours. The shop has been untouched for 8-12 hours, since closing the evening before, and I don't have to be close to other people. My wife hate shopping, I love it, except I don't love being close to others, who may potentially be carrying the virus.

Easter Holidays in Norway are eleven days of holidays, the biggest and most important holiday of the year outside summertime. Today people stop working, they go shopping, and they they would have left for their mountain cabins, but not this year. There is a ban of using cabins outside your own county. Still, shops are expected to be crowded, so I did my shopping this morning a 8am.

Very very few in the parking lot and in the shop. I walk in large circles past people, and others do the same. They say 2m / 6 ft minimum, but I like it the double. T here are antibacterial hand was at every shop entrance, and I use it both at entrance at exit. Then I wash my hands many many many times at home, and shower, feel like I have got a deadly virus every time I touch a plastic bag or a bread or an orange or anything I brought home from the store.

I got my wine earlier this week, no queues Tuesday at 10am, then I have beer, toilet paper, we have food for all of Easter, it feels like a war zone but I live in a rich country, I have no worries really. I am thinking of the homeless I saw many places on tour last year in Denver, Portland, Chicago, Phoenix, all over, and I wonder how they are now. Where do they sleep? How do they avoid the virus? How can they feel safe now?

The sun is shining. Yesterday we had some snow in the air at freezing point, but spring is here. We see the first spring flowers, the blackbird is singing already by 4am, long time before the sun is up, and the flowers and birds does not really pay any attention to the human worldwide crisis.

The Easter Holidays will be very different, that is for sure. Most of us stay at home, we do our best to keep the rest of us safe from the virus. Please please keep a distance, a big big distance, 2-3 m i.e. 6-9 feet at least, wash your hands often, don't let the virus move on, we will get through this within the next months.

Thanks BV, really appreciate your words and perspective. And of course, everything you do in providing this forum

Quote
Nate
The government here in the U.K. keeps promising to get testing up to 25,000 tests a day but even at that rate it would take around 8 years to get everyone in the country tested.Of course not everyone in the country may need to be tested but it would certainly be smart to introduce much wider testing and also introduce a legacy test to know if people have had it and are now clear so we can get the economy moving in the right direction again.The current policy just proves how stupidly shortsighted the people in power are.

Nate

If they tested that many people and seperated normal deaths instead of lumping them altogether( meaning the test only shows someone having covid19 in their blood, not necessarily meaning cause of deaths ) the hysteria would be over. The way the virus is being handled is suspect. MILLIONS of us could be infected , that could bring the death rate right down on a par with flu and influenza deaths encountered this time of year. Basically the books could be cooked, and if so, why ??
Of course it is a highly contagious and deadly virus, I'm not saying it isn't, but is this situation being taken advantage of to further agenda's, with all due respect it's worth looking into and definitely helps to deal with the fear bring generated by the media. It's causing a lot of stress in people, and stress can bring on all kinds of sickness on people, myself a hypochondriac have been thinking this cold that won't go away is COVID19, it puts you through hell and messes with your mind. But it's worth doing some research to calm yourself down, these figures of deaths are still not unique.

Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 14:54 by EddieByword.

Quote
MisterDDDD
More and more health orgs are recommending a mask. NYC mayor advised all residents to wear them in public today. [www.politico.com]
I have a couple homemade ones I'm now wearing in stores etc.

Joked about these early on, and now also have a couple of these on the way.
Don't look too bad, a place to insert filter etc (which are readily available), without impacting supply for medical professionals etc.

Rolling Stones "novelty face mask"

[www.amazon.com]

Very nice but ..... they don't ship them to the Netherlands

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 15:29 by keithsman.

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

From memory I think there was a person in Washington State USA who got both the first coronavirus, and also the mutated one, which is now all over Europe and USA, i.e. sick two times.

Bjornulf

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.

Thanks but I think your assurances are a bit out of sync. I have emphysema and have a flu jab every year.
I understand that the yearly vaccine is only for the most common flu mutation prevailing in any given year but nevertheless it reduces my chances of dying from it, a lot, however, currently there is no vaccine for this little 'mother' so, if I get that, I could be in serious trouble.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 15:51 by EddieByword.

Quote
bv

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

From memory I think there was a person in Washington State USA who got both the first coronavirus, and also the mutated one, which is now all over Europe and USA, i.e. sick two times.

Cheers bv. I did suggest, tentatively, (not being a virologist) that she might be on the receiving end of a mutation................We'll seee I guess as more data comes in......

You will only be sick once, from the same virus, they say. Once you have survived the covid-19 disease, your will have antibody preventing a new serious disease. Next time you get infected, by the same corona virus, you might get a very mild disease, like a mild cold, but nothing serious.

They say once there is a large scale fast feedback antibody test, to find out who has been sick, these people will be immune to the disease, so they will be of great value in many ways.

A new type of coronavirus test could turn the tide by revealing who has already recovered. Those immune people could go back to work first.

Bjornulf

Although it's not clear how long immunity would last at this point, weeks, months, apparently not years for some reasin...The thought that it would be forever, like say for chicken pox, is not a given.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.

Thanks but I think your assurances are a bit out of sync. I have emphysema and have a flu jab every year.
I understand that the yearly vaccine is only for the most common flu mutation prevailing in any given year but nevertheless it reduces my chances of dying from it, a lot, however, currently there is no vaccine for this little 'mother' so, if I get that, I could be in serious trouble.

Point taken

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.

Thanks but I think your assurances are a bit out of sync. I have emphysema and have a flu jab every year.
I understand that the yearly vaccine is only for the most common flu mutation prevailing in any given year but nevertheless it reduces my chances of dying from it, a lot, however, currently there is no vaccine for this little 'mother' so, if I get that, I could be in serious trouble.

Point taken

.........I did re-read yours and thought maybe you were thinking I had no underlying/pre-existing health problems, in which case, of course, you would most likely be right and I would get away with it..................although a few fit youngsters have died in the UK recently.........anybody's guess which way this is going to...........so, as Keith said...."if your lucky, 'you'll' get old too"...................good luck to everyone.

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EddieByword

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.

Thanks but I think your assurances are a bit out of sync. I have emphysema and have a flu jab every year.
I understand that the yearly vaccine is only for the most common flu mutation prevailing in any given year but nevertheless it reduces my chances of dying from it, a lot, however, currently there is no vaccine for this little 'mother' so, if I get that, I could be in serious trouble.

Point taken

.........I did re-read yours and thought maybe you were thinking I had no underlying/pre-existing health problems, in which case, of course, you would most likely be right and I would get away with it..................although a few fit youngsters have died in the UK recently.........anybody's guess which way this is going to...........so, as Keith said...."if your lucky, 'you'll' get old too"...................good luck to everyone.

That's right i wrongly assumed you were in better health.
A lot of the publicised media articles concerning younger healthier people dying of covid19 fall to pieces under closer inspection. I truly believe this virus is intended to depopulate the elderly and sick. Hopefully in the coming weeks this virus will become less severe as it mutates, until then stay in and stay safe Eddie.

Coronavirus fatality numbers and measures country by country - an analysis:

The 200 or so countries and economical areas in the world have different ways of fighting the coronavirus. Some go into a complete, or very tight lockdown, a la Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, China, Hong Kong. Others let people still meet in groups of up to 500, with open bars, restaurants, schools etc.

I have made some calculations similar to the annual flu numbers, i.e. deaths per 100,000 in the population. There is one important error rate here, not significant, but worth mentioning: The total time span of the disease is not complete, i.e. we do not see the end yet. Also, the time of the first death vary from Mar 11-14 for the Nordic countries, and from Feb 15 or so to Mar 9 for the larger countries. Technically, the virus arrived more or less at the same time in Europe, Italy may be 1-2 weeks ahead of other countries, and USA slightly later. Different measures in different countries are part of the different death numbers. I think it is important to measure all these countries at the very same current date still. As time goes by, the start date is less important, while how the curve is flattened, or going steeper, is essential.

Numbers do not lie, as long as you know the complete picture. The number of deaths per 100,000 will tell how large the problem is or will be in a country, and it will tell something about the strategies in the various countries. By correlating totals of deaths with the population, it is easier to see how measures are working. The numbers are saying this:

Italy and Spain : 22-23 fatalities per 100,000 people, i.e. 100 times larger than the numbers we see in Finland.

Finland and Iceland : 0.2-0.6 fatalities per 100,000 people, a completely different picture.

Germany have got very low numbers, they are 20 times lower than Spain and Italy.

Later in April the start date of the virus for each country is not that important, and by then these numbers will tell a lot more about how the actouns each countri is taking are working.

Comment:

Germany and Finland do have exceptional numbers. It would be interesting to know what they are doing. If the point is to stop the virus, then they are doing a lot of things right.

Background data:

Larger countries:

USA : Feb 29 - Apr 2 : 6,070 deaths / 327 mill population => 1.9 per 100,000 population
Italy : Feb 21 - Apr 2 : 13,915 deaths / 60 mill population => 23 per 100,000 population
Spain : Mar 3 - Apr 2 : 10,348 deaths / 47 mill population => 22 per 100,000 population
France : Feb 15? - Apr 2 : 5,387 deaths / 67 mill population => 8.0 per 100,000 population
Germany : Mar 9 - Apr 2 : 1,107 deaths / 83 mill population => 1.3 per 100,000 population
UK : Mar 5 - Apr 2 : 2,921 deaths / 66 mill population => 4.4 per 100,000 population

Nordic countries:

Norway : Mar 12 - Apr 2 : 50 deaths / 5.4 mill population => 0.92 per 100,000 population
Sweden : Mar 11 - Apr 2 : 308 deaths / 10.1 mill population => 3.0 per 100,000 population
Denmark : Mar 14 : 123 deaths / 5.6 mill population => 2.2 per 100,000 population
Finland : ??? - Apr 2 : 11 deaths / 5.5 mill population => 0.2 per 100,000 population
Iceland : ??? - Apr 2 : 2 deaths / 0.36 mill population => 0.56 per 100,000 population

Background data:

[www.worldometers.info]

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-03 19:51 by bv.

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EddieByword

Quote
keithsman

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

So far i don't think anyone has had the infection twice. In 2009 in the UK about 13,000 people died of flue and influenza type viruses, i think people are worrying more than need be, if you are unlikely to die of flu in an ordinary year you are unlikely to die of covid19 this year. Just keep the elderly and sick in isolation, that's the priority.

Thanks but I think your assurances are a bit out of sync. I have emphysema and have a flu jab every year.
I understand that the yearly vaccine is only for the most common flu mutation prevailing in any given year but nevertheless it reduces my chances of dying from it, a lot, however, currently there is no vaccine for this little 'mother' so, if I get that, I could be in serious trouble.

Quite right. I have the flu jab every year. My wife does not because it doesnt give 100% cover. Yet she is being far more diligent than me at the current time. Any shopping which has a plastic cover is wiped down at home. She is very wary about handling the morning post...and so on.
I know of people who are/were lifelong smokers (and users of other substances) yet they too are being ultra cautious at the current time.
People are very contrary.

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

That's useful, thanks. My wife and I have both had it and still not quite back to normal but from the sound of it, it is possible to catch it again so we'd better not let our guard down. Bastard thing is just so unknown isn't it?

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exhpart

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EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

That's useful, thanks. My wife and I have both had it and still not quite back to normal but from the sound of it, it is possible to catch it again so we'd better not let our guard down. Bastard thing is just so unknown isn't it?

This is it but bv reckons (and I can see the sense of this) that if you get sick a second time, it's likely to be a mutation - not that that makes much difference when your sheets are soaking (or worse) ..........

Quote
EddieByword
Anybody heard anything about getting an infection twice?

A friend of mine was ill about a month ago. She recovered and went back to work. Then last week her husband got it and she also got sick again.............

The Health Secretary for the UK, Matt Hancock said on the BBC, last night, that the science on whether people were immune after recovering was "unclear"............

Anyone else have any personal experience or experience of someone you know of getting sick twice?

One can be infected more than once where it comes to virusses. A typical example is the "ordinary" flu. Over the decades I have experienced it several times. At first I was surprised, but indeed virusses can make modifications within themselves. It's not a scientific proof from my part, but the second infection was dealt with more effectively by the body every time (aparently anti bodies also have a kind of intelligence). What I also noticed was that after such a "double" infection I didn't catch the flu for many (6 to 8) years.
Anyone have had similar experiences?