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Nate
Am I correct in thinking that here in the UK we haven’t actually put a stop to accepting any foreign visitors at all through our borders?

Just this past week we had 3000 football fans from Spain attending a game in Liverpool and the fact that the Cheltenham horse racing festival that lasts four days with many international attendees and a total attendance of around a quarter of a million people over the four days was allowed to go ahead is just stunningly stupid.

Nate

UK has got an interesting approach where they isolate people age 70+. I just wonder how all these old people will be living for the next six months, when the rest of the population is having the virus. UK will be a battleground for the virus. You can not segregate old people, they need food, care, visits, medication, from people who will carry the virus.

Bjornulf

I am absolutely flabbergasted at my own country’s (U.K.) approach, totally at odds with our neighbours in Continental Europe.

We are still allowing travel to any European countries without a lockdown and some events with large numbers of spectators took place all last week and some at the weekend too. My friend and his son saw Morrissey At Wembley Arena on Saturday night with 12,000 people present. Another friend caught a flight from London to Stockholm this morning.

I really don’t understand it and it’s a reckless gamble with innocent lives. Over 70s and those with health conditions are advised to stay indoors and “self isolate”. This includes my parents, who aI haven’t seen for 3 weeks. Other than the usual hand washing advice, Basically their plan is for life to go on as normal for everyone else and for the population to develop “herd immunity”. Legislation will soon be passed to effectively put over 70s under house arrest with everyone else free to carry on as normal. Schools and workplaces are still open. I’m off to work myself shortly.
The Government here say they are being guided by the Chief Medical & Chief Scientific officers, who are not politicians. However, many of us get the feeling that it’s all a political stunt to show that we’re independent of Europe and free to go our own way.
Last Week the Prime Minister told the nation for some of us to be prepared to lose loved ones.
For the sake of the country I hope the approach is a success but I have my doubts.

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grzegorz67
I am absolutely flabbergasted at my own country’s (U.K.) approach, totally at odds with our neighbours in Continental Europe.

Yes, very strange.

Now Argentina is closing the borders and schools.
Others will follow.

New York City: shops, restaurants, theatres and cinemas to be closed.

I am hearing that the White House is giving very serious consideration to grounding all passenger flights for between 14 and 30 days with only cargo flights being allowed apparently an announcement for this could come today Monday or Tuesday.

This comes from a very reliable source in aviation.

Nate

Conservative people do have a problem with understanding and taking action on the big problem with this virus. They try to keep life as it is, and they don't want changes. If the coronavirus was just another flu, everything would be ok. Only problem, it is not.

Our local paper printed some stories as told by corona positive people in quarantine today. They say it is like a mild flu, but it is grabbing their lungs in a scary way. A woman in the 40's was on winter holiday with 8 friends in a holiday cabin here in Norway, a large cabin with space for everyone. One of these 9 friends had just previously been on ski holiday in Tyrol Austria, where we later know that St Anton is a major coronavirus cluster. Each and every one of the nine friends are now tested positive...

Ask yourself this question: If nine grown up people stay at a large holiday cabin for a short holiday, and just one of them have the flu. Will all of them, each and every one of them, end up having the flu the week after?

The coronavirus is VERY fast in moving from person to person. We don't know how fast it is, but sure it is moving from person to person via door handles, shared bathrooms, towels, shared magazines, air drops in space probably as much as 1-2 meters i.e. 3-6 feet.

Bjornulf

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dimrstone

We do not need to point out Boris Johnson adventurism. The very serious possibility that the health system and all state structures will collapse in the United Kingdom.

Well the idea behind the "herd imunity" theory is based on the supposition that the virus will come back every year like the common flu. Therefore it seems more logical to let he virus do its (killing) job once and for all during year #1, with the promise it won't kill much on year #2 #3 etc.

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dcba

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dimrstone

We do not need to point out Boris Johnson adventurism. The very serious possibility that the health system and all state structures will collapse in the United Kingdom.

Well the idea behind the "herd imunity" theory is based on the supposition that the virus will come back every year like the common flu. Therefore it seems more logical to let he virus do its (killing) job once and for all during year #1, with the promise it won't kill much on year #2 #3 etc.

One of the problems with this is that it is supposition with no hard science backing it up. Far too much is still unknown about this virus. Also, who is going to play God & decide who lives & who dies. The "herd" theory is just so wrong morally & scientifically & on so many levels. I don't think very many people want to live in world that sinks to this level.

From The Guardian:

German ministers have reacted angrily following reports US president Donald Trump offered a German medical company “large sums of money” for exclusive rights to a Covid-19 vaccine.

“Germany is not for sale,” economy minister Peter Altmaier told broadcaster ARD, reacting to a front page report in Welt am Sonntag newspaper headlined “Trump vs Berlin”.

From Wikipedia:

CureVac has entered into various collaborations with organizations, including agreements with Boehringer Ingelheim, Sanofi Pasteur, Johnson & Johnson, Genmab, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Eli Lilly and Company, Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, and the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative.

On 11 March 2020, it was reported that CureVac AG's CEO Daniel Menichella was no longer the company's CEO, having been replaced by company founder Ingmar Hoerr. Menichella was reported to have met U.S. President Donald Trump on March 2. According to the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag, Trump had attempted to persuade CureVac to relocate to the United States. Reuters, CNBC, and the South China Morning Post reported that the German Health Ministry had confirmed Welt am Sonntag's claims. In a statement on March 15, it was announced that a possible vaccine should not be available to one nation, but to the whole world.

Links:

Coronavirus: anger in Germany at report Trump seeking exclusive vaccine deal (The Guardian)

Diese Erfahrung wird Europa so schnell nicht vergessen (WELT)

CureVac focuses on the development of mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine to protect people worldwide (CureVac)

About CureVac (Wikipedia)

Bjornulf

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grzegorz67
I am absolutely flabbergasted at my own country’s (U.K.) approach, totally at odds with our neighbours in Continental Europe.

We are still allowing travel to any European countries without a lockdown and some events with large numbers of spectators took place all last week and some at the weekend too. My friend and his son saw Morrissey At Wembley Arena on Saturday night with 12,000 people present. Another friend caught a flight from London to Stockholm this morning.

I really don’t understand it and it’s a reckless gamble with innocent lives. Over 70s and those with health conditions are advised to stay indoors and “self isolate”. This includes my parents, who aI haven’t seen for 3 weeks. Other than the usual hand washing advice, Basically their plan is for life to go on as normal for everyone else and for the population to develop “herd immunity”. Legislation will soon be passed to effectively put over 70s under house arrest with everyone else free to carry on as normal. Schools and workplaces are still open. I’m off to work myself shortly.
The Government here say they are being guided by the Chief Medical & Chief Scientific officers, who are not politicians. However, many of us get the feeling that it’s all a political stunt to show that we’re independent of Europe and free to go our own way.
Last Week the Prime Minister told the nation for some of us to be prepared to lose loved ones.
For the sake of the country I hope the approach is a success but I have my doubts.

To comment on the above, and BV's immediately prior on over 70's

The over 70s thing, if worked through properly, is not a bad idea at all. The death rate for the over 70s is standout dire. Look at this diagram [ourworldindata.org]

Yes, if they modify the (proposed) arrangements to 'strongly discourage' and add some organised support, it may well actually help.

On grzegorz67's points...

Yes. The UK's stand on this is indeed exactly the opposite of every one else's. They are not even trying to flatten the curve, they are allowing mass gatherings so that they maximise the existing infections, so that they get it over and done with.

Boris HAS seen the flattening the curve diagram so was aware of the consequences.

You have to ask yourself why Boris then adopted a policy that's 180 degrees at odds with the policy adopted everywhere I have ever heard of.

I'll end by adding that there's actually no convincing evidence so far that having COVID-19 once prevents you from having it again. Ouch.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

SPACE - It is all about space

If you see press briefings with any leader anywhere now, having other leaders and co-workers less than one meter i.e. three feet next to each other, or having the press sitting less than one meter apart, or sharing or touching the same microphone by hand, or shaking hands, or laying hands on shared tables, then you should know that these leaders have still not got it.

The coronavirus will easily travel one meter i.e. three feet in air. The coronavirus will also easily travel on any surface others have touched. Also, it may travel through your own cloths, which you may touch with your own hands, or your face. Guess why doctors and health workers are all covered up by highly protective measures all over their body.

Bjornulf

Today’s word is ‘prescient’.

adjective
having or showing knowledge of events before they take place.

Used in a sentence ... ‘My, this article from May 2018 was prescient...’

[t.co]

Austin closes racetrack. Stones gig in question now.

[motorsports.nbcsports.com]

Sorry - in German.
[www.motorsport-total.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 12:36 by schwonek.

I am getting nervous and my anxiety level is rising rapidly while the powers that be fiddle with our lives . Grocery store shopping over the weekend was an eye opener , I have never seen an entire aisle of toilet paper depleted , same with hand wipes and sanitizer , even Corned Beef on Saturday was gone . Sunday was better as they had a new supply of Corned Beef and most food products were restocked as the market will be closing daily at 1:00am -6:00am to restock . I spoke with the store manager and he told me that they get there weekly resupply shipment overnight Monday into Tuesday and I asked if this was from there large warehouses -which he replied yes , but the restock from the manufacturers will be a problem as that is where the supply chain is vulnerable and could be broken which is blowing my mind as I have never experienced anything like this ever in my lifetime . My Mom and my Grandmother warned of food shortages caused by the war and the resulting famine and hunger in Greece during the occupation .I used to tell them this will never happen in America and here we are as so many people are being directed to shelter in place and how can the infrastructure not be impacted across everywhere ? I work in Government and am beginning to feel not safe being in a large building with so many co workers and wish they would direct us to stay home , for which I don't see that happening . If one person tests positive for the COVID-19 Virus ,I could see our building being shut down and clean up crews brought in to clean and then we would have to report back in again . This is playing roulette with our lives . God Help us .

[www.spiegel.de]

"The shutdown begins in Germany"
(English language)

Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

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Nate
The European Union is seeking to restrict the export of ventilation equipment outside of the union and I don’t blame them why would they want to help us after we left but no need to worry we can all get a blue passport soon.

Nate

Yeah I agree, this crisis shows another good reason why Brexit is madness!

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EddieByword
Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

Not to mention most of the Rolling Stones fans? Ah, but they're probably doing OK with scrabble, tea and waffles, as long as they're at good health

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bv

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treaclefingers
.....
I think if you did this 'by country', you might find an even larger skewing of the death rate for some countries. Korea, Germany and Norway for instance seem to have relatively low death rates. That means it has to be even higher for other countries.

You are reading the numbers like the devil is reading the bible.

I'm not sure if that is a compliment or scorn, but all I will say is that I'm using simple math, with the published numbers.

With some further reflection, I also think it's possible that the numbers may skew because it takes a long time to test negative for the virus, even after you've become asymptomatic.

So in layman's terms, you won't show as being 'recovered' for some time, even after you have recovered, whereas people with weakened immune systems die sooner.

That would also possibly skew the numbers.

Plus, as you've indicated, in most countries they aren't testing as much as they need to, which means lots of people that already have it, or are asymptomatic, aren't being counted.

This means the death rate calculations would be higher than they actually are.

That's a good thing. But again, all I've done was calculate the numbers they are publishing. The 'trend' has been bad in "Rest of the World" overall, vs. China, which was my original point...and I apologize if that wasn't clear.

Finland reportedly (at least) closing schools. Government presser today at 4 pm local.

Ground Control to Major Tom,
in Italy we wait confidently at home for the days to pass.
It is hard to remain isolated but it is the only way and we would like to see the European brothers do the same prevention.
It serves to prevent hospitals from going overcrowding break.
The situation is very hard but missing only disinfectants and masks, not problems with food.
Isolation is only way at this moment
Sici

everything will be fine




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 14:36 by Sici.

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EddieByword
Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

Don't worry about them!

"Elites Are Buying These Emergency $5,000 Go-Bags To Survive Virus Crisis"
[www.zerohedge.com]

"The ultra-wealthy aren't running to Costco stores and or other big-box retailers to load up on supplies. They're hopping on private jets to disaster bunkers while the fast-spreading virus consumes the world"

Well, Isn't that the same kind of hoarding behaviour? The chances of them using it are just as small as the chances of running out of toiletpaper
The company making those packages cleverly anticipates on the sheep behaviour of us humans. Here we just deal with wealthy "sheep"

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Erik_Snow

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EddieByword
Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

Not to mention most of the Rolling Stones fans? Ah, but they're probably doing OK with scrabble, tea and waffles, as long as they're at good health

I don't know what the band thinks of it, but for a normally healthy and active 70 year old (me) the prospect of four months' house arrest is daunting - I have a part time job I won't be able to go to (it isn't one I can work at home on), and nobody can lay in enough supplies for four months (though Tesco this morning was full of greedy people having a damn good try). If I don't die of the virus I will probably go stir crazy - and I have a nice house with a garden. People stuck in a tiny flat are going to have a tough time.

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dcba

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EddieByword
Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

Don't worry about them!

"Elites Are Buying These Emergency $5,000 Go-Bags To Survive Virus Crisis"
[www.zerohedge.com]

"The ultra-wealthy aren't running to Costco stores and or other big-box retailers to load up on supplies. They're hopping on private jets to disaster bunkers while the fast-spreading virus consumes the world"

I did notice an unusual amount of Dassault Falcon & Bombardier Challenger Private jets heading to the US on Flightradar24 last night...........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 15:38 by EddieByword.

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shortfatfanny

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Ket

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doitywoik
Appears like Trump was clandestinely trying to get exclusive access to a Corona vaccine …

(English: )
[www.theguardian.com], [www.politico.eu], [www.newsweek.com]

Here's an additional detail from the SZ:
The Company [CureVac] has several vaccine candidates and announced first clinical tests for June. The majority shareholder of CureVac, with a stake of more than 80 percent, is SAP co-founder Dietmar Hopp through his holding company Dievini. On Sunday, [Dievini] gave Trump a rejection that could not have been clearer. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries", Dievini managing director Christof Hettich told the newspaper "Mannheimer Morgen." [www.sueddeutsche.de]

(German: )
[www.faz.net], [www.sueddeutsche.de], [www.merkur.de], [www.welt.de]

I read this in the Guardian website. If true it would be the most despicable act a world 'leader' could do in a world crisis of this magnitude.

First reports concerning this issue popped up yesterday in the evening.
Later on confirmed by the german ministry of health.
Statement of Hopp hopefully has been made without any backdoor.
Usually this kind of stuff is running behind the curtains.
Someone obviously had some interest to make it public...

The story has now also been covered on the Italian (TG3) 12 o'clock TV news. If I understood it correctly, it was the company (CureVac) themselves who informed the German government and also helped leaking it to the public. This was phrased a bit differently in the German papers. TG3 also confirmed the amount of one billion USD ($1.000.000.000) that Trump offered the company for the exclusive rights to the vaccine. (But my Italian is not so great, maybe they just quoted the German paper who had the story first.)

If it is correct that Menichella, the company's CEO until very recently, had something to do with it (as a fresh video of "Welt am Sonntag" hints at) the deal would certainly not have been to his disadvantage, and maybe someone wanted to make sure Menichella wouldn't get his way. Also, CureVac can now be even more sure the German government wouldn't let them starve.

Meanwhile there has been another leak disclosing how Trump had been informed about the Corona virus: [cdn.unitycms.io]

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Green Lady

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Erik_Snow

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EddieByword
Hmmm......4 months house arrest for the over 70's in the UK...........wonder what the band think of that or are they elsewhere?..........

Not to mention most of the Rolling Stones fans? Ah, but they're probably doing OK with scrabble, tea and waffles, as long as they're at good health

I don't know what the band thinks of it, but for a normally healthy and active 70 year old (me) the prospect of four months' house arrest is daunting - I have a part time job I won't be able to go to (it isn't one I can work at home on), and nobody can lay in enough supplies for four months (though Tesco this morning was full of greedy people having a damn good try). If I don't die of the virus I will probably go stir crazy - and I have a nice house with a garden. People stuck in a tiny flat are going to have a tough time.

Same as me - we'll, along with 8 million other house bounds will have the best looking gardens in town........... ..........you're right about people in flats though........not good .......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 15:51 by EddieByword.

Our grandparents went to war. We just need to stay on our couches. We got this. (to paraphrase a meme)

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Topi
Our grandparents went to war. We just need to stay on our couches. We got this. (to paraphrase a meme)

So, when the Corona crisis is over there'll be an even more massive obesity problem for the health service.....(Not a go at what you wrote), just a glimpse into the possible future.............this is going to be a memorable year no doubt -

Meanwhile, the stock markets are crashing rapidly everywhere. The UK FTSE 100 has fallen by 1/3 in just 3 weeks and the Dow, which has just opened for today is now only 1,000 points above where it was at the beginning of the current presidential term. Trading in the Dow has been temporarily suspended.

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grzegorz67
Meanwhile, the stock markets are crashing rapidly everywhere. The UK FTSE 100 has fallen by 1/3 in just 3 weeks and the Dow, which has just opened for today is now only 1,000 points above where it was at the beginning of the current presidential term. Trading in the Dow has been temporarily suspended.

It feels like today that you'll see one or two more suspensions of trading...people are selling everything indiscriminately to get liquidity.