Hi Matt just e mail at charlie100lucas@yahoo.com and I will gladly send you a picture of it.I also have a short letter sent from Charlie to David agreeing to the picture for the charity.Sadly David kept the original letter and gave me the copy.

I like those signatures by the way!Cheers Simon Emmerson

The Australian in house record awards must be from a record division on a tight budget. Great for a log cabin though...

Quote
swimtothemoon
The Australian in house record awards must be from a record division on a tight budget. Great for a log cabin though...

By the way, no offense intended to the Australians as I’m sure they have
improved their Record Awards over the last fifty years! Only a joke and
no doubt a bad one!

.... I'm totally offended ....
Gonna ring Toby Mitchell and his Mongol mates right now ....




Thats Toby on the left .....



ROCKMAN

If Toby there took a hike, then we might have something!

jb

Cha Cha -- BOOM Deeeeaye ...



ROCKMAN

Ah lady in red to chase off my morning blues.Kind of like the natural look!

HaHa - Thanks Rockman the Lady in Red will be fine. She can teach me a lesson or two about Australian record awards.

For those interested in the pinball machine, received a condition report from them today on it and it appears they may be scrambling to make sure it works by auction time.. fyi.

"The display lights of the pinball machine are currently only partially lit and the functionality of the machine has not been tested yet though we are having it checked and repair work executed to make sure it is."

If I were them, I would not attempt any repairs at all. For one thing it is modifying the machine from its original configuration, assuming it is still original inside. For another that's just not the way it is at this point in time. Don't mess with it; in my mind it lessens the value. If the new buyer wants to screw with it or hire someone to do so, so be it. But as it is, its like scrawling an autograph on something right now and then selling it which I am sure all would agree would be pretty bogus.

jb

She can teach me a lesson or two about Australian record awards.



Yeah swim ... Toby's only good with police records ...



ROCKMAN

Hi Jbwelda it’s an interesting point that you raise about the pin ball machine.Yes you are robbing it of it’s originality.But if you don’t repair and service mechanical items they soon become obsolete.I just spent a considerable amount of money on servicing and reconditioning my 1943 RAF navigators Omega watch.It’s now fit for purpose and a great historical item which I wear every day.
I think the pin ball machine needs reconditioning by Juliens.Other wise you don’t know the cost that will be incurred,or whether it will ever be fully restored.
I would not fancy an obsolete pin ball machine in my home.I don’t fancy the shipping costs back to the UK either.Bill obviously thought he was gonna get big bucks for all these items from the US market,other wise he would have never shipped them over.

Now if that lady in red can cook,clean and garden ETC I might be tempted to have her as a house mate

Cook yes but she boils everything .....
Gardening I doubt ....



ROCKMAN

Nice one Rockman.Cheers

Quote
stargroover
Hi Jbwelda it’s an interesting point that you raise about the pin ball machine.Yes you are robbing it of it’s originality.But if you don’t repair and service mechanical items they soon become obsolete.I just spent a considerable amount of money on servicing and reconditioning my 1943 RAF navigators Omega watch.It’s now fit for purpose and a great historical item which I wear every day.
I think the pin ball machine needs reconditioning by Juliens.Other wise you don’t know the cost that will be incurred,or whether it will ever be fully restored.
I would not fancy an obsolete pin ball machine in my home.I don’t fancy the shipping costs back to the UK either.Bill obviously thought he was gonna get big bucks for all these items from the US market,other wise he would have never shipped them over.

Interesting point about the cost of the items being shipped to the US.
Gotta think everything shipped over in a couple shipping containers, probably not a tremendous cost considering the overall value.
The shipping costs going back overseas individually could be steep though. Scratched my head a little over his car, shipping it back to the UK would be spendy.
Whoever buys it with only 19k miles will likely not be driving it much wherever it lands..

Only 19 k now that’s quite tempting.Second thoughts I will stick with my trusty Beetle.

Stargroover, you should look into the cases of people who had their Rolex chronometers factory refurbished in the 80s and 90s when Rolex was encouraging people to send in their watches for updating or just cleaning. They typically sent back a new Rolex to replace the vintage ones, or replaced pieces internally or externally with new stuff. Totally ruined the value as vintage timepieces. You see it again and again, an original untouched Rolex even in kind of decrepit condition is worth many times over what a newer or repaired one goes for. So in that case, even with the work and parts being free, taking advantage of the offer reduced the value of the pieces significantly.

As for the specific case of the pin ball machines (the Stones ones are not all that rare really, I have seen them in person before at pinball machine conventions etc), perhaps what would be a better compromise would be to have the machine checked out, and vintage parts sourced to fix whatever might be wrong, and include those parts with the purchase to allow the new owner to repair it or not. That would save money up front and also allow the new owner to preserve the worth if they care about that above having a working machine at home. As it is, you are paying about 50% for the machine and 50% for the fact it was owned by one of the Rolling Stones. Worth it to some; not so much for others.

jb

Quote
jbwelda
Stargroover, you should look into the cases of people who had their Rolex chronometers factory refurbished in the 80s and 90s when Rolex was encouraging people to send in their watches for updating or just cleaning. They typically sent back a new Rolex to replace the vintage ones, or replaced pieces internally or externally with new stuff. Totally ruined the value as vintage timepieces. You see it again and again, an original untouched Rolex even in kind of decrepit condition is worth many times over what a newer or repaired one goes for. So in that case, even with the work and parts being free, taking advantage of the offer reduced the value of the pieces significantly.

As for the specific case of the pin ball machines (the Stones ones are not all that rare really, I have seen them in person before at pinball machine conventions etc), perhaps what would be a better compromise would be to have the machine checked out, and vintage parts sourced to fix whatever might be wrong, and include those parts with the purchase to allow the new owner to repair it or not. That would save money up front and also allow the new owner to preserve the worth if they care about that above having a working machine at home. As it is, you are paying about 50% for the machine and 50% for the fact it was owned by one of the Rolling Stones. Worth it to some; not so much for others.

jb

If we were talking a new paint job or something aesthetic then I can see your point. Mechanically, of course the machine is much more valuable to collectors or anyone if it works... Sourcing and fixing the problem(s) of whatever electrical (or other) issue is too complicated to send someone off with a part. Been there, done that. Like the car, cool that it belonged to Bill, but if the motor and transmission were seized up, a lot less desirable and valuable.

Realize the sale is "as-is" so to speak, but I think they may have to revise the listing if they are unable to get in working condition.
There are plenty of other less heavy/bulky/complicated items to bid on if one is just looking for the "art" or owned by Bill factors.

Selling away legacy and heritage from future family generations is simply wrong IHO.

jbwelda I understand what your saying with those particular Rolexes.Often it depends on the individual watch and if you want the watch to keep accurate time.My RAF navigators watch from 1943 is regularly serviced and when it needs a part,which is very rare,authentic pieces are used.I personally Prefer the watch in good working order as opposed to a non working,rusting time piece.Each to their own.
Authenticity is a fascinating topic.
And if I was looking for that pin ball machine I would definitely purchase it in the UK.Not sure where I would put it though.

These days, mechanical watches are completely redundant, they are antiques and treasures only. Think about it, your phone updates its time from the atomic clock with regularity, like every second or something. No analog watch, Rolex or otherwise, can beat that. Hell every modern car or appliance has the same capability. But you can't wear them on your wrist.

I still think they are making a mistake making repairs on the box, indirectly for exactly the reasons you cite in favor of doing so. For one thing you got who knows who working on it (the auction house MIGHT be diligent about it but why should they? They are just moving it on and want it to "work" to fetch more cash...that means they might be taking it to the lowest bidder who may well hack it up inside). As an electronics person, I would want the best job done inside and usually that means sourcing your own technician. Then there is the thing about "fetching the most cash", a KNOWLEDGABLE bidder will want the thing to be as original as possible, and that might mean it doesnt work but its original. They could then decide whether they wanted to actually get it working and also decide the level of cash outlay they want to invest...for instance the corner shop versus taking it to the factory for factory refurbishment (if that is an option). Personally, again, I would rather have it original and not working than sort of working and be hacked up inside.

The exterior is a whole other matter...but again I personally would go for leaving it alone. Every mark and cigarette burn might tell a story. So if it wasn't totally trashed, I am all for original patina and inner workings.

But you know what I think is immaterial as I will not be bidding on it, for more reasons than one, I can think of a half dozen right offhand. I was just suggesting they should save themselves some pain and just sell it as is. It was put up for auction like that, sell the blasted thing like that. If Bill Wyman would have wanted it operating, I think he could have come up with the cash to get it there. And I think ultimately it will hurt and not help the final outcome to have persons unknown twiddling with it.

Don't mean to be arguing, just stating my case. And yeah, I been there and done that too, often to my disappointment.

jb

I have seen several of these stones 1970’s pinball machines on ebay for around
$3,000 - $5,000. Shipping would be extra.

Interesting rare early versions of this one out there where the colors were messed up resulting in the pic below..



Also like the catalogues/manuals for it.. some of those would be almost as cool as the machine


[www.ipdb.org]

Quote
Chris Fountain
Selling away legacy and heritage from future family generations is simply wrong IHO.

Why is that? It's Bill's collection, he's free to do what he wants with it. Heritage, by definition, only comes into play after he passes.

I’m sure Bill and family are keeping some select items. As most collectors can
relate to - sometimes you have to “thin the heard”. This is best done while Bill
is alive and well. A thoughtful, but maybe not easy, thing to do for his family.

New pinball machines are quite expensive. I think they are around $8k to $10k. Used ones aren't cheap either. And to buy one who doesn't work just to look at it would not be a good deal.
Especially not financially. I don't think it will increase in value due to the fact Wyman owned it. Unless you buy it cheap. Which is probably impossible at this auction...

Now I might well bid on that catalogue if it were available. Thats gotta be pretty rare.

jb

All of this depends on why you want it or what you plan on doing with it. If it is for an investment then you might want to just leave it as is. If you want to use it, then have it repaired. Not everyone buys these things as an investment.


plexi