Keith's influence to and standing within the Stones is far more than from a musical point of view. He embodies everything the Stones stand for.
It might be true that his musical role on stage has changed since he's suffering from arthrosis. His playing developed more into sort of accompanying contributions after he nailed his riffs at the sons' beginnings. When in older days the band followed Keith, they follow Chuck now.
But Keith has extremely heavy influence, otherwise every Stones show would turn into a Mick Jagger show. I'm saying that as a true Mick Jagger admirer.

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Meise
Keith's influence to and standing within the Stones is far more than from a musical point of view. He embodies everything the Stones stand for.
It might be true that his musical role on stage has changed since he's suffering from arthrosis. His playing developed more into sort of accompanying contributions after he nailed his riffs at the sons' beginnings. When in older days the band followed Keith, they follow Chuck now.
But Keith has extremely heavy influence, otherwise every Stones show would turn into a Mick Jagger show. I'm saying that as a true Mick Jagger admirer.

Nice thoughtfull post, so true, Keith is so much more than the sum of his parts, he brings more to the stage than the man himself, he kind of brings hope, a belief, je ne sais quoi beyond the music, beyond even the legend. And at other times he can only be described as completely cringy and crap. But before the arthritis, what can i say, so many moments of magic.
Err sorry who are the Eagles? ?

Again, no one would argue that Keith isn't fundamental to the Rolling Stones. I've said repeatedly a million times that you can't have a Stones show without Keith. I'd never accept it. But if you were literally observing what happens on stage, again NOT a knock to him, does he really do much more than days than stand there and smile? He opens each song with the iconic riff (not nothing at all, I'll give him that) and then he essentially stands there strumming the same way Mick Taylor did with an acoustic guitar on Satisfaction. I truly wasn't aware we had to make it into something more than that. I personally have no problem with it! He's Keith Richards, I literally need nothing more from him at this point! But I didn't know we weren't really admitting it.

I've said the same about Glenn Frey, which is why I don't think he is replaceable either. They have different strengths. Keith is the face of the Stones and is responsible for all those iconic riffs. Glenn on the other hand sings a good amount of the Eagles biggest hits (Take It Easy, Already Gone, Heartache Tonight) that are played every single night and was literally the one who started that group and before his death no one would have ever conceived of having the band without him, Henley or Walsh ALL being present. The two hold a very similar standing for different reasons in both band's history and live on stage, and I'm just surprised some would argue one band could continue without that while the other couldn't. I really do think they're just saying that because that other band HASN'T yet, and at this age probably never will. But it seems like a strange argument besides those that just don't like the Eagles. Otherwise, I'd clearly argue they're very comparable.

I'm sure Glenn is just as beloved to die-hard Eagles fans as Keith is to die-hard Stones fans, but two things:

1. Keith is a pop culture icon in a way that Glenn was not, and his fame (or infamy) extends even beyond the Stones, with his haggard appearance, ever-present cigarette and drink glass, and drunken, loopy demeanor (staged Dean Martin-style or not).

2. Keith does much more than strum, even today. If anything, Keith and Ronnie are simply on a more even footing playing-wise. It used to be Keith was responsible for filling out the sound, while Ronnie tinkered on the margins, but now they're both playing at more equal volume. Ronnie is playing more driving, consistent chord patterns in conjunction with Keith rather than just sporadic lead fills or goofing off.

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TornAndFried

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daspyknows

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TornAndFried

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MKjan
Rock'n' Roll would be better off if The Eagles and U2 never existed.

That's as dumb of a quote as I've ever read on here.

Second dumbest. The dumbest one was last week. Don't worry, we will get more dumb ones on here.

What was the other dumb quote on here last week?

Related to Stones and politics so noo need to rehash.

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RollingFreak

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
most eagles fans are upset frey isn't there . the stones could concerts now seemed to be a majority of general public fans anyways

And somehow you know this as fact? Seems the opposite to me - perhaps you missed his post, but even Woz stated it makes no difference and they're still excellent.
In his words, "a rotating cast from the beginning"....and they're just as good now as when he first saw them in '78.

But so why does Woz' words mean more than ours? Its all opinion.

In the end, we all know what the real Eagles band was. It was never a rotating cast. It was 4 guys, which became 5 and 6 when they added Don and replaced Bernie. Thats really it. Not sure how we've started pushing the idea they're the Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac or something. Thats a falsehood, if we're trying to bring facts into this. There were 6 members up through Hotel, and only 2 of them currently still exist or are allowed to play with the band. And only one of them is original when it was clearly a two headed leadership. Thats not enough for some.

A lot of people saw Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. In fact, they were massively successful. Cause the concert buying public is dumb and just wants to see a name. Try as they might, it was never Floyd without Roger. Its not really the Eagles without Frey, but as has happened for decades, people will convince themselves otherwise.

Huh, what do you mean the Grateful Dead was a rotating cast of characters. Dead and Company is NOT the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead ceased to exist when Jerry died. The Grateful Dead was Jerry, Bobby, Phil, Mickey, Billy and Pigpen. Mickey left briefly when his dad swindled the band but returned. The only other changres were at keyboard. When Pigpen got sick Keith took over with Donna tagging along to provide blood curdling wails, they were replaced by Brent who was replaced when he died by Vince and Bruce (temporarily).

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RollingFreak

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
most eagles fans are upset frey isn't there . the stones could concerts now seemed to be a majority of general public fans anyways

And somehow you know this as fact? Seems the opposite to me - perhaps you missed his post, but even Woz stated it makes no difference and they're still excellent.
In his words, "a rotating cast from the beginning"....and they're just as good now as when he first saw them in '78.

But so why does Woz' words mean more than ours? Its all opinion.

In the end, we all know what the real Eagles band was. It was never a rotating cast. It was 4 guys, which became 5 and 6 when they added Don and replaced Bernie. Thats really it. Not sure how we've started pushing the idea they're the Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac or something. Thats a falsehood, if we're trying to bring facts into this. There were 6 members up through Hotel, and only 2 of them currently still exist or are allowed to play with the band. And only one of them is original when it was clearly a two headed leadership. Thats not enough for some.

A lot of people saw Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. In fact, they were massively successful. Cause the concert buying public is dumb and just wants to see a name. Try as they might, it was never Floyd without Roger. Its not really the Eagles without Frey, but as has happened for decades, people will convince themselves otherwise.

Exactly, it's all opinion. I miss Frey......I never said it's not different or that I don't care who is on stage. But,much like Generalissimo Francisco Franco.....Glen Frey is still dead. The band touring now is quite competent and they have one of the greatest catalogues in rock and roll at their disposal. So it all has to stop because Glenn kicked the bucket?? That seems silly and not consistent with the human experience that life goes on. I get a kick out of the "holier than thou" people that believe that fans at the show don't know the band history and so they are somehow superior fans - LOL! My first hand experience talking to folks at AT&T park last year revealed just the opposite, A well informed, knowledgeable fan base that were very much living in the present and having a good time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-11 21:04 by Woz.

I don't personally think the Grateful Dead was a rotating cast of characters but I feel to the larger public they always saw a lot of people in that band coming and going.

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Woz

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RollingFreak

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
most eagles fans are upset frey isn't there . the stones could concerts now seemed to be a majority of general public fans anyways

And somehow you know this as fact? Seems the opposite to me - perhaps you missed his post, but even Woz stated it makes no difference and they're still excellent.
In his words, "a rotating cast from the beginning"....and they're just as good now as when he first saw them in '78.

But so why does Woz' words mean more than ours? Its all opinion.

In the end, we all know what the real Eagles band was. It was never a rotating cast. It was 4 guys, which became 5 and 6 when they added Don and replaced Bernie. Thats really it. Not sure how we've started pushing the idea they're the Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac or something. Thats a falsehood, if we're trying to bring facts into this. There were 6 members up through Hotel, and only 2 of them currently still exist or are allowed to play with the band. And only one of them is original when it was clearly a two headed leadership. Thats not enough for some.

A lot of people saw Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. In fact, they were massively successful. Cause the concert buying public is dumb and just wants to see a name. Try as they might, it was never Floyd without Roger. Its not really the Eagles without Frey, but as has happened for decades, people will convince themselves otherwise.

Exactly, it's all opinion. I miss Frey......I never said it's not different or that I don't care who is on stage. But,much like Generalissimo Francisco Franco.....Glen Frey is still dead. The band touring now is quite competent and they have one of the greatest catalogues in rock and roll at their disposal. So it all has to stop because Glenn kicked the bucket?? That seems silly and not consistent with the human experience that life goes on. I get a kick out of the "holier than thou" people that believe that fans at the show don't know the bands history and so they are superior LOL! My first hand experience talking to folks at AT&T park last year revealed just the opposite, A well informed, knowledgeable fan base that were very living in the present and having a good time.

That's a good perspective, and I appreciate that.

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Woz

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RollingFreak

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
most eagles fans are upset frey isn't there . the stones could concerts now seemed to be a majority of general public fans anyways

And somehow you know this as fact? Seems the opposite to me - perhaps you missed his post, but even Woz stated it makes no difference and they're still excellent.
In his words, "a rotating cast from the beginning"....and they're just as good now as when he first saw them in '78.

But so why does Woz' words mean more than ours? Its all opinion.

In the end, we all know what the real Eagles band was. It was never a rotating cast. It was 4 guys, which became 5 and 6 when they added Don and replaced Bernie. Thats really it. Not sure how we've started pushing the idea they're the Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac or something. Thats a falsehood, if we're trying to bring facts into this. There were 6 members up through Hotel, and only 2 of them currently still exist or are allowed to play with the band. And only one of them is original when it was clearly a two headed leadership. Thats not enough for some.

A lot of people saw Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. In fact, they were massively successful. Cause the concert buying public is dumb and just wants to see a name. Try as they might, it was never Floyd without Roger. Its not really the Eagles without Frey, but as has happened for decades, people will convince themselves otherwise.

Exactly, it's all opinion. I miss Frey......I never said it's not different or that I don't care who is on stage. But,much like Generalissimo Francisco Franco.....Glen Frey is still dead. The band touring now is quite competent and they have one of the greatest catalogues in rock and roll at their disposal. So it all has to stop because Glenn kicked the bucket?? That seems silly and not consistent with the human experience that life goes on. I get a kick out of the "holier than thou" people that believe that fans at the show don't know the bands history and so they are superior LOL! My first hand experience talking to folks at AT&T park last year revealed just the opposite, A well informed, knowledgeable fan base that were very living in the present and having a good time.

The vast majority of so-called fans are actually pretty ignorant when it comes to being knowledgeable about the music and history of the band they supposedly follow. I find this especially true for Rolling Stones fans. Of course we are in the minority here but by and large most casual fans I encounter at a Stones show knows just the basic radio hits and little more. I suppose Eagles fans are similar. How can you pay to see a band that's missing half of its original voice?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-11 20:21 by TornAndFried.

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keefriff99
I'm sure Glenn is just as beloved to die-hard Eagles fans as Keith is to die-hard Stones fans, but two things:

1. Keith is a pop culture icon in a way that Glenn was not, and his fame (or infamy) extends even beyond the Stones, with his haggard appearance, ever-present cigarette and drink glass, and drunken, loopy demeanor (staged Dean Martin-style or not).

2. Keith does much more than strum, even today. If anything, Keith and Ronnie are simply on a more even footing playing-wise. It used to be Keith was responsible for filling out the sound, while Ronnie tinkered on the margins, but now they're both playing at more equal volume. Ronnie is playing more driving, consistent chord patterns in conjunction with Keith rather than just sporadic lead fills or goofing off.

Believe me, I'm no cheerleader for Keith (or the Stones), but he certainly does more than strum.

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RollingFreak
But if you were literally observing what happens on stage, again NOT a knock to him, does he really do much more than days than stand there and smile? He opens each song with the iconic riff (not nothing at all, I'll give him that) and then he essentially stands there strumming the same way Mick Taylor did with an acoustic guitar on Satisfaction. I truly wasn't aware we had to make it into something more than that. I personally have no problem with it! He's Keith Richards, I literally need nothing more from him at this point! But I didn't know we weren't really admitting it.

As someone whose played guitar for over 40+ years, I closely observed Keith during four shows this past summer, and can tell you he does much more than just stand there and smile - in fact his playing is better than it's been for quite some time.
You think he just stands there strumming mindlessly like some puppet, and he's "really not necessary" (as you stated before), but you seem to be missing some of the intricacies and/or idiosyncracies of his actual playing and what that means to the sound of the Stones. Our viewpoints are at odds and completely different which is why "we weren't really admitting it" (in other words agreeing with you), but trust me, if his playing was as bad as you make it out to be and he just stood there like some mindless zombie puppet, I'd be the first to admit it. And I certainly wouldn't be paying any money to see them live again if that was the case, but the fact is it's really not true - at least not from my perspective. Yes Keith's an old man and is far from his peak, but the Stones sound would never be the same without him - he's irreplaceable and completely necessary in every way - even to this day.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-11 19:27 by Hairball.

I always loved the Eagles especially Glenn and Joe Walsh,but when i watched that documentary and saw what a complete ass hole Glenn was the way he fired Randy Meisner it completely put me off Glenn, what a bully, such an ignorant human being.

I'm very curious to see how Keith sounds when the tour kicks off this year. I wonder if it'll be back to square one, with him being a little tentative and stiff to start out.

That's the disadvantage to these short touring cycles...he seems to really start kicking when the tour ends.

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keefriff99

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Woz

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RollingFreak

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
most eagles fans are upset frey isn't there . the stones could concerts now seemed to be a majority of general public fans anyways

And somehow you know this as fact? Seems the opposite to me - perhaps you missed his post, but even Woz stated it makes no difference and they're still excellent.
In his words, "a rotating cast from the beginning"....and they're just as good now as when he first saw them in '78.

But so why does Woz' words mean more than ours? Its all opinion.

In the end, we all know what the real Eagles band was. It was never a rotating cast. It was 4 guys, which became 5 and 6 when they added Don and replaced Bernie. Thats really it. Not sure how we've started pushing the idea they're the Grateful Dead or Fleetwood Mac or something. Thats a falsehood, if we're trying to bring facts into this. There were 6 members up through Hotel, and only 2 of them currently still exist or are allowed to play with the band. And only one of them is original when it was clearly a two headed leadership. Thats not enough for some.

A lot of people saw Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. In fact, they were massively successful. Cause the concert buying public is dumb and just wants to see a name. Try as they might, it was never Floyd without Roger. Its not really the Eagles without Frey, but as has happened for decades, people will convince themselves otherwise.

Exactly, it's all opinion. I miss Frey......I never said it's not different or that I don't care who is on stage. But,much like Generalissimo Francisco Franco.....Glen Frey is still dead. The band touring now is quite competent and they have one of the greatest catalogues in rock and roll at their disposal. So it all has to stop because Glenn kicked the bucket?? That seems silly and not consistent with the human experience that life goes on. I get a kick out of the "holier than thou" people that believe that fans at the show don't know the bands history and so they are superior LOL! My first hand experience talking to folks at AT&T park last year revealed just the opposite, A well informed, knowledgeable fan base that were very living in the present and having a good time.

That's a good perspective, and I appreciate that.

Agreed.

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keithsman
I always loved the Eagles especially Glenn and Joe Walsh,but when i watched that documentary and saw what a complete ass hole Glenn was the way he fired Randy Meisner it completely put me off Glenn, what a bully, such an ignorant human being.

I watched that documentary a few years ago, and I expected to come out really hating Frey and Henley based on what I'd read, but I don't recall being THAT put off by their behavior. Maybe I expected it to be way worse than what it was.

I felt very bad for Don Felder though.

Its all about the franchise. Just like Lynyrd Skynyrd. If people go to see the show and have a good time, whats the harm?

Never a huge fan but Ive gained some appreciation for the original Leadon-Meisner-Frey-Henley line up, basically following the path Poco blazed with their proto-country rock. Seems kinda corporate now. Bernie Leadon and Don Felder were not asked to participate which would have made it alot more authentic. But most concert goers dont seem to care about who is original and who isnt.

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roryfaninva
Its all about the franchise. Just like Lynyrd Skynyrd. If people go to see the show and have a good time, whats the harm?

Never a huge fan but Ive gained some appreciation for the original Leadon-Meisner-Frey-Henley line up, basically following the path Poco blazed with their proto-country rock. Seems kinda corporate now. Bernie Leadon and Don Felder were not asked to participate which would have made it alot more authentic. But most concert goers dont seem to care about who is original and who isnt.

Bernie Leadon was on the 2015 History of the Eagles Tour. Fantastic.

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kv2915

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roryfaninva
Its all about the franchise. Just like Lynyrd Skynyrd. If people go to see the show and have a good time, whats the harm?

Never a huge fan but Ive gained some appreciation for the original Leadon-Meisner-Frey-Henley line up, basically following the path Poco blazed with their proto-country rock. Seems kinda corporate now. Bernie Leadon and Don Felder were not asked to participate which would have made it alot more authentic. But most concert goers dont seem to care about who is original and who isnt.

Bernie Leadon was on the 2015 History of the Eagles Tour. Fantastic.

Yes, and Randy Meisner was invited as well, but declined due to health issues.

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Jah Paul

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kv2915

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roryfaninva
Its all about the franchise. Just like Lynyrd Skynyrd. If people go to see the show and have a good time, whats the harm?

Never a huge fan but Ive gained some appreciation for the original Leadon-Meisner-Frey-Henley line up, basically following the path Poco blazed with their proto-country rock. Seems kinda corporate now. Bernie Leadon and Don Felder were not asked to participate which would have made it alot more authentic. But most concert goers dont seem to care about who is original and who isnt.

Bernie Leadon was on the 2015 History of the Eagles Tour. Fantastic.

Yes, and Randy Meisner was invited as well, but declined due to health issues.

Meisner is such a mess, it's really sad.

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daspyknows

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TornAndFried

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daspyknows

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TornAndFried

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MKjan
Rock'n' Roll would be better off if The Eagles and U2 never existed.

That's as dumb of a quote as I've ever read on here.

Second dumbest. The dumbest one was last week. Don't worry, we will get more dumb ones on here.

What was the other dumb quote on here last week?

Related to Stones and politics so noo need to rehash.

I should add Springsteen to the list...never liked them,so never listen to them.

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steffialicia

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24FPS
This is so sad. Rock and Roll is on its last legs. Only the Museum groups are left, playing their Greatest Hits over and over. At higher prices yet. I guess U2 will have been the last relevant rock group.

I think you're looking at this in the wrong way. Many of these songs are out and out masterpieces. Would you ever get tired of hearing Bach, Beethoven, etc.

Agreed. 24FPS's quote could apply to our favorite band you too you know from some folks point of view...

Mike


[www.flickr.com]

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keefriff99
I'm very curious to see how Keith sounds when the tour kicks off this year. I wonder if it'll be back to square one, with him being a little tentative and stiff to start out.

That's the disadvantage to these short touring cycles...he seems to really start kicking when the tour ends.

That's the problem isn't it, Keith has always taken 10 or 15 shows to get going even when he was in his prime. It is what it is i guess and we take what we get from him. He is trying so hard these past two years since he sobered up, who knows he might come out of the starting blocks on the B of the Bang, he's the come back guy.

People are paying Eagles prices for a Don Henley solo show. Don has toured with the Eagles musicians for years (Steuart Smith on lead guitar included). The last time I saw Don (2016) the top ticket prices were less than $150, and the venue capacity was less than 10,000. I'm not sure it sold out. It was a very good show that was on par with Eagles show quality (the harmonies sounded just like the records even using mostly female backing singers). Don sang one of Glenn's leads, and I'm sure he could have done more if he wanted to do that. Joe Walsh was touring around the same year, and anyone could have attended both shows for less than half of the current Eagles shows, and even thrown in seeing Timothy on a small club tour for low ticket prices. I don't think Vince Gill and Glenn's son could add that much to make it worth higher ticket prices than when Glenn was still around.

Prime early Eagles with Bernie- its not half bad..

[www.youtube.com]

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marianna
People are paying Eagles prices for a Don Henley solo show. Don has toured with the Eagles musicians for years (Steuart Smith on lead guitar included). The last time I saw Don (2016) the top ticket prices were less than $150, and the venue capacity was less than 10,000. I'm not sure it sold out. It was a very good show that was on par with Eagles show quality (the harmonies sounded just like the records even using mostly female backing singers). Don sang one of Glenn's leads, and I'm sure he could have done more if he wanted to do that. Joe Walsh was touring around the same year, and anyone could have attended both shows for less than half of the current Eagles shows, and even thrown in seeing Timothy on a small club tour for low ticket prices. I don't think Vince Gill and Glenn's son could add that much to make it worth higher ticket prices than when Glenn was still around.

so its a don Henley solo show with about a dozen songs featuring joe, tim or vince on vocals?

Hotel California

New Kid in Town

Life in the Fast Lane

Wasted Time

Wasted Time
(Reprise)

Victim of Love

Pretty Maids All in a Row

Try and Love Again
(Vince Gill on lead vocals)

The Last Resort

Set 2:
Seven Bridges Road
(Steve Young cover)

Take It Easy

One of These Nights

Take It to the Limit

Tequila Sunrise

Witchy Woman

In the City
(Joe Walsh song)

I Can't Tell You Why

Lyin' Eyes

Best of My Love

Peaceful Easy Feeling

Love Will Keep Us Alive

Walk Away
(James Gang cover)

Those Shoes

Life's Been Good
(Joe Walsh song)

The Boys of Summer
(Don Henley song)

Funk #49
(James Gang cover)

Already Gone

Heartache Tonight

Encore:
Rocky Mountain Way
(Joe Walsh song)

Desperado

The Long Run

Hotel California
(Reprise)

Hardly a Don Henley solo show...I'd love to see that setlist live personally.

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keefriff99
Hardly a Don Henley solo show...I'd love to see that setlist live personally.

I would too. With Glenn Frey and Don Felder lol. Randy Meisner as well but he's just too sick. I'd go see that show with those 4 guys (Henley, Frey, Felder, Walsh). Otherwise, just doesn't seem like the real thing to me, even if it'll be tight and technically right. So are cover bands but they're just not my thing.

so Hollywood.

jb

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RollingFreak

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keefriff99
Hardly a Don Henley solo show...I'd love to see that setlist live personally.

I would too. With Glenn Frey and Don Felder lol. Randy Meisner as well but he's just too sick. I'd go see that show with those 4 guys (Henley, Frey, Felder, Walsh). Otherwise, just doesn't seem like the real thing to me, even if it'll be tight and technically right. So are cover bands but they're just not my thing.

You could have seen that show in 2015 with Frey and Leadon. Except for maybe three songs from Hotel California it is the exact show in almost the exact order they were running before his death. I saw this in Knoxville. No need to see it now with Frey jr. and Gill.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-12 01:19 by tonyc.