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DandelionPowderman

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Irix

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DandelionPowderman

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Thommie

Impressive! With Seven decades from 60’s to 20’s - which decade did they NOT top any chart?

The 00s.

A Bigger Bang - 10x Number 1 - [en.Wikipedia.org] .

Forty Licks - 6x Number 1 - [en.Wikipedia.org] .

In the UK was the question. ABB and 40 Licks made it to #2.

Don't forget SHINE A LIGHT, closest of them missing #1...

- Doxa

Thinking about number ones. And of wasted opportunities. If they managed to top the charts with a not-so-well-praised album like GHS, what if they had put all that effort to 50th Anniversary editions of BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED? But, of course, we know that it is what it is... It more looks like they sapotaged ABKCO's effort to make money with those albums...

That said, I think it is great that they (probably due to circumstances) are giving spotlight to their not so famous, but still great albums. GHS surely deserves all the recognition it gets now.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-14 12:35 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Thinking about number ones. And of wasted opportunities. If they managed to top the charts with a not-so-well-praised album like GHS, what if they had put all that effort to 50th Anniversary editions of BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED? But, of course, we know that it is what it is... It more looks like they sapotaged ABKCO's effort to make money with those albums...

That said, I think it is great that they (probably due to circumstances) are giving spotlight to their not so famous, but still great albums. GHS surely deserves all the recognition it gets now.

- Doxa

My random thoughts

These reissues are addressed mainly to those who already are fans and, as far as possible, to people who love this genere of music but are not into the Stones.

Bonus tracks, improved sound quality, limited editions for collectors etc are the usual tricks to convince fans to buy the umpteenth copy of the same old record they already own in multiple formats and releases

Bombastic multimedia promo for the rest of the world.

Reason why the reissues of Beggars and Bleed didn't chart well, I think, are the lack of bonus tracks (that were included in the more successful repackaging of Ya Ya), poor promo efforts and, last but not least, the possibility that also lots of non fans already own those records, as they belong to the short list of must have stones records (I am not a fan of the Beatles, but sure I have my good old copy of Sgt Pepper!)

I don't think that the Stones camp can be held responsible for any of the above nor have any interest in sabotaging ABKCO's reissues. I think that ABKCO's marketing division is the sole responsible of the sales (or lack of sales) of their products and for sure they cannote expect promo activity from Mick and co unless they pay for it!

At the end of the day, I think, not so famous old releases potentially have more market than the big names: less people own them and out of context, it is easier to assess the value of these lesser albums (as opposed to being judged in comparison to their then successful predecessors - Exile, in the case of GHS).

C

Yet the best Angie was played in Brussels during the 1st (afternoon) show

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ironbelly
Yet the best Angie was played in Brussels during the 1st (afternoon) show

Definitely. And that's one of the reasons why I don't join the praising choir for the official "Brussels Affair". Even this one is not a complete concert, but a compilation of both Brussels shows while the original "Brussels Affair" bootleg had tracks from the first show mixed with a handful of tracks from Wembley. Why? Simply because these were overall better performances compared to their Brussels counterparts. That was the selection Jagger selected for KBFH in September 1974 when he actually listened, compared and decided what version of a certain song was actually the best.

I've said it before and say it again: "Brussels" is a myth just like the myth that "Exile" was done at Nellcote when actually only a handful of tracks derived from there. For an official physical release as part of the GHS box I would have wished for a "Europe 1973" compilation with the best performances only. It simply bugs me to listen to "Heartbreaker" for instance with the slightly out of tune Richards guitar glaringly obvious during the jam part while knowing the Wembley "Heartbreaker" was overall a much more inspired performance or the ok performances of Gimme Shelter or Angie from the second show while being aware that their Wembley (for Shelter) and 1st show (for Angie) counterparts were definitely more inspired and haunting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-14 18:47 by retired_dog.

There are Brussels boots with the entire first show.

I just put together a London show with available SBD and good AUD and I like it better than official Brussels.
love poems god gave me you

All these years and all the GHS stuff I never realized how fun and seductive Keith's riff on DWMR D is sort of like the seductive riff on TD. Hammer on A string and 3rd and then hammer on D string at 2nd then play D and G strings at 2nd
and then open back and hammer on to A string and open back to A chord. The chorus
is A chord with nice funky rhythm to D chord.

Mick did a good job at promoting GHS Reissue because he had probably the time he needed to do the promo. Normally he would have been touring,and working in the studio with the band.
Rockandroll,
Mops

The tour, as originally scheduled, would have ended in July, rollmops...

Wrote an article about GHS (Swedish, sorry)

[www.rockbladet.se]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-15 09:01 by krkhamster.

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liddas

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Doxa
Thinking about number ones. And of wasted opportunities. If they managed to top the charts with a not-so-well-praised album like GHS, what if they had put all that effort to 50th Anniversary editions of BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED? But, of course, we know that it is what it is... It more looks like they sapotaged ABKCO's effort to make money with those albums...

That said, I think it is great that they (probably due to circumstances) are giving spotlight to their not so famous, but still great albums. GHS surely deserves all the recognition it gets now.

- Doxa

My random thoughts

These reissues are addressed mainly to those who already are fans and, as far as possible, to people who love this genere of music but are not into the Stones.

Bonus tracks, improved sound quality, limited editions for collectors etc are the usual tricks to convince fans to buy the umpteenth copy of the same old record they already own in multiple formats and releases

Bombastic multimedia promo for the rest of the world.

Reason why the reissues of Beggars and Bleed didn't chart well, I think, are the lack of bonus tracks (that were included in the more successful repackaging of Ya Ya), poor promo efforts and, last but not least, the possibility that also lots of non fans already own those records, as they belong to the short list of must have stones records (I am not a fan of the Beatles, but sure I have my good old copy of Sgt Pepper!)

I don't think that the Stones camp can be held responsible for any of the above nor have any interest in sabotaging ABKCO's reissues. I think that ABKCO's marketing division is the sole responsible of the sales (or lack of sales) of their products and for sure they cannote expect promo activity from Mick and co unless they pay for it!

At the end of the day, I think, not so famous old releases potentially have more market than the big names: less people own them and out of context, it is easier to assess the value of these lesser albums (as opposed to being judged in comparison to their then successful predecessors - Exile, in the case of GHS).

C

Good points. Thanks sharing them!

Yeah, I don't think the Stones truely are sapotaging ABKCO's reissues. That was sarcastic word to describe the lack of Stones input and interest to do exactly what those reissues would need to be more interesting and reach bigger audience: bonus tracks and promo activity. For any extra, non-yet officially released material ABKCO needs to co-operate with the Stones, since (a) the Stones possess mostly of the material; (b) the Stones have a veto right to prevent any release of such material. Sometimes that do happen - ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS, GET YER YA-YA'S OUT!, CHARLIE IS MY DARLING, ON AIR - although that might not just happen out of good will; I guess mostly that it is a business deal: 'I give you that, and you give me that', etc. As far as I am understood right, the Stones also need some permission from ABKCO or co-operate with them for certain releases, such as ABKCO-era live material until 1975, and, of course, career-covering compilations (FORTY LICKS and GRRR).

I don't think it is a case to blame anyone. Like I said, it is what it is: it is a reality one needs to cope with that the Stones catalogue has a dualist existence - ABKCO Era and Tongue Era - and both right holders take of their own half as good as they can. Even both belonging nowadays to UMG doesn't seem to have changed much. ABKCO seemingly is a pretty small company, and for them the Stones catalogue is the heart or milk cow of their business (for example, just from streaming they get a nice money out of it). They should be forever grateful to Allan Klein. The lack of proper promotion of reissues like BEGGARS and BLEED probably is something to do with the lack of resources. Which probably is not such a big deal for ABKCO (which might hold true for their release policy over-all: they might be doing just fine without putting that much effort to fancy reissues, which is to say, they don't actually need bonus tracks or unnecessary co-operation with the Stones, etc).

But I think the biggest losers are us, the fans. Just think of the scenario if the Stones (Promotone) would own ABKCO era: what had been the reissues of, say, BEGGARS BANQUET or LET IT BLEED like, had it them treated like EXILE, SOME GIRLS, STICKY FINGERS and GHS? Bonus tracks and huge promotion....

But an interesting thought that the lesser known albums might sell better than the obvious ones nowadays. That might have a point. At least the success of GHS seem to indicate that. However, Universal did not think in those terms when they started doing these new editions. They started with the Promotone era crown jewels: EXILE, SOME GIRLS and STICKY FINGERS. EXILE was a huge success, SOME GIRLS flopped and STICKY FINGERS did alright. So with that experience one could conclude anything... For example, even though EXILE is probably their most legendary album and anyone digging rock music should own a copy by now or then, they managed to make it #1 with all that hype. And it did ten years ago when records still were selling much better than they do now. It was a million seller. Neither SOME GIRLS or STICKY FINGERS were promoted that strongly, but still the weak chartings and sales of SOME GIRLS are pretty surprising - was it that in 2011 people ('casual fans') were thinking 'aah, just another Stones reissue, I just bought EXILE, and that's enough for me... Besides, I think I have a copy of it somewhere I haven't listened for years...' (Anyway, I do have an impression that the era that interests 'casual fans' doesn't cover the era of SOME GIRLS any longer - The Stones were 'passengers' by the end of the 70's, not any longer representatives of the era breathing the zeitgeist - some magic was gone).

Anyway, I could easily imagine that they could easily build such a hype over BEGGARS and BLEED - who knows even AFTERMATH - that it could match that of EXILE. Those albums are a piece of rock history and they breath more than ever the zeitgest. There are stories to tell... from the year of revolution to Altamont.... They should took their piece of the 60's cake, too - and not giving it all to the Beatles (who seem to own the 60's nostalgia nowadays)... Altogether I think the 60's - ABKCO era - is pretty downplayed (or treated badly) in the Stones story, especially compared to the Beatles (who, of course, doesn't have anything else to promote...)

But thank you again, liddas. Inspiring thoughts. Mine as random as yours.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-15 10:15 by Doxa.

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ironbelly
Yet the best Angie was played in Brussels during the 1st (afternoon) show

Absolutely! I heard the bastardised 'official' Brussels Affair for the first time recently, and the performance of Angie particularly stood out. A more subdued effort from Keith, in my opinions. Also, Mick's croaky vocals. Don't get me entirely wrong: it's an enjoyable rendition; just not as memorable as the earlier show's performance. Perhaps it's the lack of familiarity?

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Big Al
Absolutely! I heard the bastardised 'official' Brussels Affair for the first time recently, and the performance of Angie particularly stood out. A more subdued effort from Keith, in my opinions. Also, Mick's croaky vocals. Don't get me entirely wrong: it's an enjoyable rendition; just not as memorable as the earlier show's performance. Perhaps it's the lack of familiarity?

I do not know either... Angie from the 1st show is more familiar and definitively is played better. but it is missing from the official release.
Funny question is - why they used image of the box with tape from the 1st show?

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ironbelly

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Big Al
Absolutely! I heard the bastardised 'official' Brussels Affair for the first time recently, and the performance of Angie particularly stood out. A more subdued effort from Keith, in my opinions. Also, Mick's croaky vocals. Don't get me entirely wrong: it's an enjoyable rendition; just not as memorable as the earlier show's performance. Perhaps it's the lack of familiarity?

I do not know either... Angie from the 1st show is more familiar and definitively is played better. but it is missing from the official release.
Funny question is - why they used image of the box with tape from the 1st show?

Absolutely no idea. I mentioned in another thread that I believe the Stones should've titled this official release differently. The reason? It isn't the Brussels Affair that everybody knew. It isn't the release that gained such legendary status.

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Big Al


Absolutely no idea. I mentioned in another thread that I believe the Stones should've titled this official release differently. The reason? It isn't the Brussels Affair that everybody knew. It isn't the release that gained such legendary status.

But I recall that still at the time they had the policy that they don't want to relaese stuff that is too familiar from the bootlegs. At least that was the criterion they used for selecting EXILE bonus material. So they wanted to attract the hardcore fan circles who 'had it all' to maximise the interest and sales. However, that criteria loosened later.

Anyway, I wonder if BRUSSELS AFFAIR - the first release of vaults series - still had some of that idea there? They used the legendary title of the bootleg for promotional reasons but still offered something novel to excite the ears of hardcore fans to make a difference?

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-15 11:23 by Doxa.

I really don't know why i love so much this song!! Someone help me please!!!
[youtu.be]

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Doxa

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Big Al


Absolutely no idea. I mentioned in another thread that I believe the Stones should've titled this official release differently. The reason? It isn't the Brussels Affair that everybody knew. It isn't the release that gained such legendary status.

But I recall that still at the time they had the policy that they don't want to relaese stuff that is too familiar from the bootlegs. At least that was the criterion they used for selecting EXILE bonus material. So they wanted to attract the hardcore fan circles who 'had it all' to maximise the interest and sales. However, that criteria loosened later.

Anyway, I wonder if BRUSSELS AFFAIR - the first release of vaults series - still had some of that idea there? They used the legendary title of the bootleg for promotional reasons but still offered something novel to excite the ears of hardcore fans to make a difference?

- Doxa

Yeah I agree Doxa, just received the Super Deluxe in the mail and I would've felt cheated if it was the afternoon show in the box. At least there's most of the evening show to look forward to as I only got the download in 2012. Imagine the horror had they released ALL the stuff we already had only officially!!!

A bit surprising they don't put everything in a proper box as with Some Girls, Sticky Fingers and Exile. This is more like the Totally Stripped package IMHO.

are they going to release the Brussels Affair vinyl in color or is it impossible

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mick64
are they going to release the Brussels Affair vinyl in color or is it impossible

What reason for? Will it sound any better or contain different mixes/show?

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ironbelly

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mick64

are they going to release the Brussels Affair vinyl in color or is it impossible

What reason for? Will it sound any better or contain different mixes/show?

Good idea - Brussels complete 1st Show on Color-Vinyl as Limited Edition, only available in RS No. 9 Carnaby-Street ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-15 16:55 by Irix.

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Irix

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ironbelly

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mick64

are they going to release the Brussels Affair vinyl in color or is it impossible

What reason for? Will it sound any better or contain different mixes/show?

Good idea - Brussels complete 1st Show on Color-Vinyl as Limited Edition, only available in RS No. 9 Carnaby-Street ....

I have no doubt that stuff like this will come ... Paradiso 2nd show 1995, El Mocambo...

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Doxa

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Big Al


Absolutely no idea. I mentioned in another thread that I believe the Stones should've titled this official release differently. The reason? It isn't the Brussels Affair that everybody knew. It isn't the release that gained such legendary status.

But I recall that still at the time they had the policy that they don't want to relaese stuff that is too familiar from the bootlegs. At least that was the criterion they used for selecting EXILE bonus material. So they wanted to attract the hardcore fan circles who 'had it all' to maximise the interest and sales. However, that criteria loosened later.

Anyway, I wonder if BRUSSELS AFFAIR - the first release of vaults series - still had some of that idea there? They used the legendary title of the bootleg for promotional reasons but still offered something novel to excite the ears of hardcore fans to make a difference?

- Doxa

All good and well to think about the hardcore fans every once in a while, and while this policy was perfectly ok for the initial download series, I still find it a bit strange if a strict policy effectively leads to the inclusion of weaker performances on official physical releases (see also my post above).

Therefore, the official Brussels Affair is not my go-to version if I want to listen to Europe 1973 live Stones.

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Irix

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ironbelly

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mick64

are they going to release the Brussels Affair vinyl in color or is it impossible

What reason for? Will it sound any better or contain different mixes/show?

Good idea - Brussels complete 1st Show on Color-Vinyl as Limited Edition, only available in RS No. 9 Carnaby-Street ....

Limited to 20 units, 1 set per customer, first come to the store, first served. Let's make colored vinyl lovers happy

It is known as "bait and switch" in some circles. Bait it with "Brussels Affair", then switch to substandard versions from different shows.

jb

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TravelinMan
There are Brussels boots with the entire first show.

Yes, I have this boot. It is better than the official release in my opinion. The version of Tumbling Dice on that boot is incredible (check out Mick T's solo)

Has anyone seen a track by track comparison between 1973 and 2020 mixes? I’d love to read one. I personally think Giles Martin should receive a knighthood.

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john lomax

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TravelinMan
There are Brussels boots with the entire first show.

Yes, I have this boot. It is better than the official release in my opinion. The version of Tumbling Dice on that boot is incredible (check out Mick T's solo)

Which boot is that? The entire show, nothing from London?

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DandelionPowderman

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john lomax

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TravelinMan
There are Brussels boots with the entire first show.

Yes, I have this boot. It is better than the official release in my opinion. The version of Tumbling Dice on that boot is incredible (check out Mick T's solo)

Which boot is that? The entire show, nothing from London?

Brussels Affair - Definitive Edition and The Lost Brussels all have the nearly complete 1st Show. @#$%& always audience.

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hockenheim95

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DandelionPowderman

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john lomax

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TravelinMan
There are Brussels boots with the entire first show.

Yes, I have this boot. It is better than the official release in my opinion. The version of Tumbling Dice on that boot is incredible (check out Mick T's solo)

Which boot is that? The entire show, nothing from London?

Brussels Affair - Definitive Edition and The Lost Brussels all have the nearly complete 1st Show. @#$%& always audience.

And Heartbreaker?