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I may be confusing Hide Your Love with another song but... wasn't that done at the Los Angeles 1973 sessions because Ahmet requested it? They had done it earlier but then did it again and that is the more laid back version done in California? I thought that was posted somewhere earlier this year or last year.
From our modern vantage point, I agree with you that GHS is the most underrated album in the discography. If Exile was Keith’s (basement) record, this was Mick (J)’s attic response. And I’m more of a Keef guy.
Andy Johns said the original version of Hide Your Love started with just Jagger banging away at a piano. So that is definitely the version that made Goats Head Soup. I’ve read the Ahmet story, but I don’t remember where. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t the last song added. The original track listing had Through the Lonely Nights and Criss Cross, but not Coming Down Again and Winter, IIRC.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 04:39 by TravelinMan.
Could be, but I think this kind of confusion in selling physical stuff seems to be a norm in record business nowadays. I cannot but help thinking that they are pretty careful in producing material in order to keep the possible losses in control (the material costs, the costs of storage, distribution, etc.). Also all the stuff comes in so many forms, that the logistics are more complex than back in the day.
- Doxa
Yeah, that sounds likely to me also. So there is probably two years gap between the versions (or the backing tracks). That said, I understand their decision: the original, raw, Mick's piano-driven version (from Stargroves?) has such an unique feel in it that the new take misses in capturing, no matter how nice Keith's and Taylor's guitars are to listen. The Jamaican version at least to me sounds more standard or even 'by-the-numbers' take on blues. Still great, though (naturally: you put the Stones to jam blues, and it is always exciting).
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 09:35 by Doxa.
A good site for comparing different versions and prices is here:
[www.superdeluxeedition.com]
Wasn't that 'Keith started to miss sessions' more like a STICKY FINGERS era problem? Something they sorted out in EXILE sessions by recording in his basement (that at least what Bill has claimed, by making sure that he at least will be present - however, Bill himself started to be a problem by not willing to settle to Keith's 'junkie time'). I think we need to see the context and reference there: before STICKY FINGERS there probably wasn't any (except famous EDWARD sessions) Stones sessions in where Keith wasn't present, and a kind of natural musical leader and director in sessions, so that was a new situation for them, and surely presented a true problem.
But if I have understood rightly, the GHS Jamaican sessions were pretty compact package, them working hard and within a relatively short time framework. And Keith was there. (Well, if "Winter" was the first cut there, probably he missed a bit the start...
)
Probably the idea that Keith's not that present in GHS derives from his guitar not having such a prominant role as before (especially if one compares it to EXILE). But that most likely was an artistic choice. For example, the riff of "Heartbreaker" is his guitar innovation - and probably the whole song - but they let Preston to play it in recording. And then Taylor to shine, etc.
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 10:22 by Doxa.
The Complete Recording Guide to The Rolling Stones -- James Karnbach
ROCKMAN
Rehearsals for the 1973 European Tour: [dbboots.com] .
I agree with the notion that The Hide Your Love that was included on Goats Head Soup is superior. In fact I think this reissue shows that the right decissions were made, when chosing tracks and versions back then. I would have love Cross Cross to have been included, but not instead of for instance Hide Your Love or anything else. The bonus tracks are interesting as an addition and it is a surprising delight to hear the instrumental versions of Heartbreaker and Dancing, due to the underlying jazzyness. The inclussion of these bonusses might have been decided under influence of Mike Edisons interesting book Sympathy for the drummer - why Charlie Watts matters, which underlines the jazz elements in Stones.
Taylor.
Recording date: October 1970 & May-June 1973
Recording locations: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Mick Jagger's home, Newbury, England; Olympic Sound Studios & Island Recording Studios, London, England
only mention of Fast Walking i can see
The Complete Recording Guide to The Rolling Stones -- James Karnbach
ROCKMAN
[StonesSessions.com] - Session List as well as [Aeppli.ch] - (0.204) say mid/end of 1971, Rolling Stones Mobile, Nellcôte.
In a footnote Felix Aeppli says about 'Fast Talking Slow Walking' also:
"Cut 8: Not to be confused with the later version from Dynamic Studios, Jamaica, November 25-30 or December 6-13, 1972 with Billy Preston omnipresent on overdubbed organ".
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 17:20 by Irix.
Interesting. The Leslie speaker and what sounds like Billy Preston lead me to believe the version we know wasn’t done in the South of France.
According to the footnote by Felix Aeppli, it looks like it's the overdubbed organ by Billy Preston which makes the difference between the two versions (mid/end of 1971 vs. end of 1972).
Looks like there's also only one Bootleg of the 1971 recording: [dbboots.com] .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 17:35 by Irix.
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Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: September 8, 2020 03:44
Quote
TravelinMan
I think the original Hide Your Love on GHS is the early version from the Sticky Fingers sessions. The alternate take sounds like they recorded it in Jamaica and probably relearned it. Ultimately, they preferred the earlier, raw take more and added overdubs.
I may be confusing Hide Your Love with another song but... wasn't that done at the Los Angeles 1973 sessions because Ahmet requested it? They had done it earlier but then did it again and that is the more laid back version done in California? I thought that was posted somewhere earlier this year or last year.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Donnebr
()
Date: September 8, 2020 03:59
Ok I am going to buy GHS. Is there a deluxe package? Is Amazon the best place to get it in the US. Thanks but my eyes won’t let me scroll through 84 pages & a few vinos
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
plusplusjames
()
Date: September 8, 2020 04:07
Quote
JordyLicks96
The new mix of Goats Head Soup, while taking away it's original murkiness at times, provides a much more clear listening experience in accordance to the lead vocals and instruments. I noticed a lot less reverb in the 2020 mix as well. The bonus material is a real treat. While we already know about 'Scarlet' and 'Criss Cross', 'All The Rage' is a catchy, cowbell-rocker with new vocals from Jagger. The instrumentals of 'DWMD' and 'Heartbreaker' give us an inside look at the recordings in Jamaica of how these two songs evolved into the songs they would become. The album lists the bonus 'Hide Your Love' as an alternate mix, but it is clearly an alternate version, one that is much more bluesy and hard-hitting than it's finished version counterpart. The Glyn Johns 1973 mixes of 'DWMD' and 'Heartbreaker' give us another look at how differently these songs could have sounded on the original album. The 'Silver Train' version on here sounds like it has early lead vocals too. Saving the best for last, the '100 Years Ago' piano demo gets the recognition of the standout bonus track. Nicky Hopkins plays a stunningly beautiful piano along with Mick's wistful and wonderfully sung vocals.
I'd rank the Goats Head Soup reissue at #1 of the 4 reissues released thus far. It's a whole new listening experience of the original album and gives us the best batch of bonus material of the 4 reissues. Plus, we get the entire Brussels Affair concert as an added bonus. Goats Head Soup is the most underrated Stones album in their long, extensive catalogue, and this reissue is the appreciation it rightfully so deserves.
JordyLicks96 Rating: 10/10
From our modern vantage point, I agree with you that GHS is the most underrated album in the discography. If Exile was Keith’s (basement) record, this was Mick (J)’s attic response. And I’m more of a Keef guy.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: September 8, 2020 04:39
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
TravelinMan
I think the original Hide Your Love on GHS is the early version from the Sticky Fingers sessions. The alternate take sounds like they recorded it in Jamaica and probably relearned it. Ultimately, they preferred the earlier, raw take more and added overdubs.
I may be confusing Hide Your Love with another song but... wasn't that done at the Los Angeles 1973 sessions because Ahmet requested it? They had done it earlier but then did it again and that is the more laid back version done in California? I thought that was posted somewhere earlier this year or last year.
Andy Johns said the original version of Hide Your Love started with just Jagger banging away at a piano. So that is definitely the version that made Goats Head Soup. I’ve read the Ahmet story, but I don’t remember where. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t the last song added. The original track listing had Through the Lonely Nights and Criss Cross, but not Coming Down Again and Winter, IIRC.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 04:39 by TravelinMan.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
quietbeatle
()
Date: September 8, 2020 05:41
Thanks. A nods as good as a wink eh?..
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: September 8, 2020 07:00
I hope they release Through the Lonely Nights as a remixed/remastered standalone single. Give it a video as well.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: September 8, 2020 09:02
Mister D instrumental, fantastic.
Who plays side guitar ?
Heartbreaker great too.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 09:04 by powerage78.
Who plays side guitar ?
Heartbreaker great too.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 09:04 by powerage78.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 8, 2020 09:07
Quote
Chris Fountain
It seems like that the Stones are surprised by this unexpected global interest! Universal excitement may have led to current marketing and distribution confusion.
Could be, but I think this kind of confusion in selling physical stuff seems to be a norm in record business nowadays. I cannot but help thinking that they are pretty careful in producing material in order to keep the possible losses in control (the material costs, the costs of storage, distribution, etc.). Also all the stuff comes in so many forms, that the logistics are more complex than back in the day.
- Doxa
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 8, 2020 09:32
Quote
TravelinMan
I think the original Hide Your Love on GHS is the early version from the Sticky Fingers sessions. The alternate take sounds like they recorded it in Jamaica and probably relearned it. Ultimately, they preferred the earlier, raw take more and added overdubs.
Yeah, that sounds likely to me also. So there is probably two years gap between the versions (or the backing tracks). That said, I understand their decision: the original, raw, Mick's piano-driven version (from Stargroves?) has such an unique feel in it that the new take misses in capturing, no matter how nice Keith's and Taylor's guitars are to listen. The Jamaican version at least to me sounds more standard or even 'by-the-numbers' take on blues. Still great, though (naturally: you put the Stones to jam blues, and it is always exciting).
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 09:35 by Doxa.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Topi
()
Date: September 8, 2020 10:03
Quote
Donnebr
Ok I am going to buy GHS. Is there a deluxe package? Is Amazon the best place to get it in the US. Thanks but my eyes won’t let me scroll through 84 pages & a few vinos
A good site for comparing different versions and prices is here:
[www.superdeluxeedition.com]
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 8, 2020 10:10
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Good to hear Keith kicking off the alternate Hide Your Love and Heartbreaker, as well as his acoustic on the latter in the Glyn Johns-mix.
This lays the 'Keith was absent during the GHS-sessions' to rest once and for all.
Wasn't that 'Keith started to miss sessions' more like a STICKY FINGERS era problem? Something they sorted out in EXILE sessions by recording in his basement (that at least what Bill has claimed, by making sure that he at least will be present - however, Bill himself started to be a problem by not willing to settle to Keith's 'junkie time'). I think we need to see the context and reference there: before STICKY FINGERS there probably wasn't any (except famous EDWARD sessions) Stones sessions in where Keith wasn't present, and a kind of natural musical leader and director in sessions, so that was a new situation for them, and surely presented a true problem.
But if I have understood rightly, the GHS Jamaican sessions were pretty compact package, them working hard and within a relatively short time framework. And Keith was there. (Well, if "Winter" was the first cut there, probably he missed a bit the start...
)Probably the idea that Keith's not that present in GHS derives from his guitar not having such a prominant role as before (especially if one compares it to EXILE). But that most likely was an artistic choice. For example, the riff of "Heartbreaker" is his guitar innovation - and probably the whole song - but they let Preston to play it in recording. And then Taylor to shine, etc.
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 10:22 by Doxa.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 10:29
The Complete Recording Guide to The Rolling Stones -- James Karnbach
ROCKMAN
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 8, 2020 10:52
Okay, according to Karnbach (cheers Rockie!), "Hide Your Love" was about the last track they recorded for the album, even though initially about the first one crafted for it. So its story began in October 1970 at Olympic and, after a full cicle, ended there in May 1972. Supposedly the 'alternate mix' is what they tried in Jamaica, but seemingly weren't satisfied, so gave it another go again at Olympic. Was this closer to the initial jam in October 1970 or was the piano-driven version something they come up at last minute in May 1972, who knows.
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 11:05
Quote
exilestones
Do we have a list of the songs rehearsed for the '73 tour of Europe? Do we have recordings to compare Hide You Love rehearsal? I'd bet we'd find this version of Hide Your Love.
Rehearsals for the 1973 European Tour: [dbboots.com] .
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 11:11
Okay, according to Karnbach (cheers Rockie!)
Pleasure ole son ...
ROCKMAN
Pleasure ole son ...
ROCKMAN
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: September 8, 2020 11:56
Quote
Doxa
Okay, according to Karnbach (cheers Rockie!), "Hide Your Love" was about the last track they recorded for the album, even though initially about the first one crafted for it. So its story began in October 1970 at Olympic and, after a full cicle, ended there in May 1972. Supposedly the 'alternate mix' is what they tried in Jamaica, but seemingly weren't satisfied, so gave it another go again at Olympic. Was this closer to the initial jam in October 1970 or was the piano-driven version something they come up at last minute in May 1972, who knows.
- Doxa
I agree with the notion that The Hide Your Love that was included on Goats Head Soup is superior. In fact I think this reissue shows that the right decissions were made, when chosing tracks and versions back then. I would have love Cross Cross to have been included, but not instead of for instance Hide Your Love or anything else. The bonus tracks are interesting as an addition and it is a surprising delight to hear the instrumental versions of Heartbreaker and Dancing, due to the underlying jazzyness. The inclussion of these bonusses might have been decided under influence of Mike Edisons interesting book Sympathy for the drummer - why Charlie Watts matters, which underlines the jazz elements in Stones.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 11:57
Quote
powerage78
Mister D instrumental, fantastic.
Who plays side guitar ?
Heartbreaker great too.
Taylor.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 11:59
Quote
DoxaQuote
TravelinMan
I think the original Hide Your Love on GHS is the early version from the Sticky Fingers sessions. The alternate take sounds like they recorded it in Jamaica and probably relearned it. Ultimately, they preferred the earlier, raw take more and added overdubs.
Yeah, that sounds likely to me also. So there is probably two years gap between the versions (or the backing tracks). That said, I understand their decision: the original, raw, Mick's piano-driven version (from Stargroves?) has such an unique feel in it that the new take misses in capturing, no matter how nice Keith's and Taylor's guitars are to listen. The Jamaican version at least to me sounds more standard or even 'by-the-numbers' take on blues. Still great, though (naturally: you put the Stones to jam blues, and it is always exciting).
- Doxa
Recording date: October 1970 & May-June 1973
Recording locations: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Mick Jagger's home, Newbury, England; Olympic Sound Studios & Island Recording Studios, London, England
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: September 8, 2020 12:29
Ok. We got new location for recording of Scarlet. Keith told in an interview today that it was his basement
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 12:30
I've been listening through the 4 LP GHS-set many times now. I gotta say that this is one of the best Deluxe-releases so far. The new mix really brought life to this album, and the demos, mixes and alternate versions are ace.
Btw, what happened on Silver Train? On one of the choruses, Mick stops singing on "and I did not know her name". Never noticed that before.
I don't miss a booklet or liner notes on the vinyl release. They are so full of mistakes anyway, so one less thing to be bothered about
The piano version of 100 Years Ago is fantastic! The slide guitar on the Mr D-demo bores me to tears, but is extremely well-played. Would probably have been great with another guitar to play off it. Hide Your Love is a gem. Heartbreaker is clearly not fully developed (Keith kicks it off in E major, which sounds a bit awkward to my ears).
Sound is important. Where the UMG-remasters took away some of the joy of listening, Giles Martin gave us new insights to this album. Well done!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 15:41 by DandelionPowderman.
Btw, what happened on Silver Train? On one of the choruses, Mick stops singing on "and I did not know her name". Never noticed that before.
I don't miss a booklet or liner notes on the vinyl release. They are so full of mistakes anyway, so one less thing to be bothered about
The piano version of 100 Years Ago is fantastic! The slide guitar on the Mr D-demo bores me to tears, but is extremely well-played. Would probably have been great with another guitar to play off it. Hide Your Love is a gem. Heartbreaker is clearly not fully developed (Keith kicks it off in E major, which sounds a bit awkward to my ears).
Sound is important. Where the UMG-remasters took away some of the joy of listening, Giles Martin gave us new insights to this album. Well done!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 15:41 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: September 8, 2020 14:04
I was pretty impressed with this new edition . I of course like the 3 newly released tracks . I also liked the alternate mix tracks esp. Heartbreaker Doo Doo Doo alternate mix . Good stuff !
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: September 8, 2020 14:30
Hey Rockman, when/where does that book say Fast Talking Slow Walking was recorded?
Unless it went by an alternate title, I see no evidence of it being recorded in Jamaica on the tape notes.
Unless it went by an alternate title, I see no evidence of it being recorded in Jamaica on the tape notes.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 14:42
....eeeeerrrr I dont think it gets a mention ...
Oh yes it does ...hang on I'' scan for ya ...
ROCKMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 14:44 by Rockman.
Oh yes it does ...hang on I'' scan for ya ...
ROCKMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 14:44 by Rockman.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: September 8, 2020 14:58
Thanks (slide guitar)
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
(slide guitar)Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
powerage78
Mister D instrumental, fantastic.
Who plays side guitar ?
Heartbreaker great too.
Taylor.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 8, 2020 14:59
only mention of Fast Walking i can see
The Complete Recording Guide to The Rolling Stones -- James Karnbach
ROCKMAN
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: September 8, 2020 15:16
Thanks.
It doesn’t have an Exile vibe to me. Maybe it’s from Olympic and they overdubbed in LA.
It doesn’t have an Exile vibe to me. Maybe it’s from Olympic and they overdubbed in LA.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 16:40
Quote
TravelinMan
It doesn’t have an Exile vibe to me. Maybe it’s from Olympic and they overdubbed in LA.
[StonesSessions.com] - Session List as well as [Aeppli.ch] - (0.204) say mid/end of 1971, Rolling Stones Mobile, Nellcôte.
In a footnote Felix Aeppli says about 'Fast Talking Slow Walking' also:
"Cut 8: Not to be confused with the later version from Dynamic Studios, Jamaica, November 25-30 or December 6-13, 1972 with Billy Preston omnipresent on overdubbed organ".
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 17:20 by Irix.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: September 8, 2020 17:14
Quote
IrixQuote
TravelinMan
It doesn’t have an Exile vibe to me. Maybe it’s from Olympic and they overdubbed in LA.
[StonesSessions.com] - Session List as well as [Aeppli.ch] - (0.204) say end of 1971, Rolling Stones Mobile, Nellcôte.
In a footnote Felix Aeppli says about 'Fast Talking Slow Walking' also: "Cut 8: Not to be confused with the later version from Dynamic Studios, Jamaica".
Interesting. The Leslie speaker and what sounds like Billy Preston lead me to believe the version we know wasn’t done in the South of France.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue - out September 4
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 17:25
Quote
TravelinMan
The Leslie speaker and what sounds like Billy Preston lead me to believe the version we know wasn’t done in the South of France.
According to the footnote by Felix Aeppli, it looks like it's the overdubbed organ by Billy Preston which makes the difference between the two versions (mid/end of 1971 vs. end of 1972).
Looks like there's also only one Bootleg of the 1971 recording: [dbboots.com] .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-08 17:35 by Irix.
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