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Taylor1
It is a shame there is no audio product that captures a good 1972 tour in great quality. Ladies and Gentlemen sounds awful , particularly the guitars, and the Philadelphia shows are pretty bad too. They should give the tapes to Bob Clearmountain. It would great if Clearmountain could get Ladies and Gentleman to sound like Flashpoint or Still Life, rather than the muffled garbage it is now. Clearmountain did a great job with the sound on Tops. And a dream would be Madison Square Garden, July 25, 1972, second show sounding like Flashpoint or Tokyo 1990

I really doubt that they have the Fort Worth / Houston-tapes. The release was most likely a fold-down of the poor quadrophonic recording.

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jbwelda
If and since Brussels is a proven, already mastered and released in certain areas and for a lot of $, I think its a no brainer to think it is going to get wider release, which makes it pretty certain we will see it here.

That would make me happy, otherwise I will finally buy the Ward issue which I have been hold off of in anticipation it will be included in GHS. Because of course if I were to buy the Ward version right now, it will certainly be included in the GHS version.

I wish now I had bought the Deluxe (or super deluxe or whatever the heck its called) version of SF instead of the 2 cd version. I hate rebuying the rebought and rebought again stuff. There is so much redundancy it is ridiculous.

PS: I loved the SF, SG and EOMS releases, the bonus tracks are good enuff for me.

jb

It strongly depends on the price range. It is quite possible that deluxe will hit the mark 140-150 Euros. In that case simple 1DVD+3CD version from WARD would be cheaper.

Ward is sold out, so you have to buy it at third parties.

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jbwelda
If and since Brussels is a proven, already mastered and released in certain areas and for a lot of $, I think its a no brainer to think it is going to get wider release, which makes it pretty certain we will see it here.

That would make me happy, otherwise I will finally buy the Ward issue which I have been hold off of in anticipation it will be included in GHS. Because of course if I were to buy the Ward version right now, it will certainly be included in the GHS version.

I wish now I had bought the Deluxe (or super deluxe or whatever the heck its called) version of SF instead of the 2 cd version. I hate rebuying the rebought and rebought again stuff. There is so much redundancy it is ridiculous.

PS: I loved the SF, SG and EOMS releases, the bonus tracks are good enuff for me.

jb

I looked at the 2 disc edition at Best Buy or Target and passed on it - only 5 studio tracks? It's cool hearing early versions of CYHMK and Bitch but they have other stuff they could've put on it. That's ridiculous.

But having just found it for under $20 on Amazon... free download with the purchase, which is nice.

I listen to it on Spotify once in a while (Jumpin' Jack Flash is hilarious since they sing the chorus like the single version, which they didn't in 1969). As usual Midnight Rambler is awesome - both of them, the Buddy Hollyish beginning.

The part about give Clearmountain the tapes to L&G and see what he can do with them: wouldn't be anything he could do with them would be my bet. Perhaps he could put a little bit of "studio sheen" on them but I don't think many would appreciate that. The cold hard fact is, if your masters sound like crap then you cannot really do much unless you somehow re-record them. And we know that aint gonna happen and it would be illegitimate as heck anyhow even if it did happen. You cannot "restore" what was never there in the first place and that document sounded poor from the get go, and the processing for quadraphonic in theatres does nothing but damage it further. My bet is whatever "masters" they have have been totally corrupted over the years and so what you got is the best its gonna get, for that item anyway.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I doubt it will happen

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-04 00:22 by jbwelda.

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jbwelda
Also looks like there is a 2 LP vinyl version too, if this TBC thing applies. I don't know what "TBC" means. I am assuming its some acronym for arriving soon.

TBC in vinyl

thing is, the cd edition says its 7 disks and that conflicts with the 4 disk report, although they may have thrown in a couple of 7" or something to make the total come out to 7.

looks exciting anyway.



jb

That link is Bobbie Gentry's The Delta Sweete, which is being re-released in a 2-LP version.

Unfortunately whatever Clearmountain does mix wise will be made moot by the awful brickwalling hack job of mastering that Stephen Marcussen will do.

That's probably the state of the master anyhow: brickwalled, no dynamic range, all compressed and then the amplitude increased to near clip. Hence, less than optimum sound no matter which wizard of the day touches them.


jb

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jbwelda
The part about give Clearmountain the tapes to L&G and see what he can do with them: wouldn't be anything he could do with them would be my bet. Perhaps he could put a little bit of "studio sheen" on them but I don't think many would appreciate that. The cold hard fact is, if your masters sound like crap then you cannot really do much unless you somehow re-record them. And we know that aint gonna happen and it would be illegitimate as heck anyhow even if it did happen. You cannot "restore" what was never there in the first place and that document sounded poor from the get go, and the processing for quadraphonic in theatres does nothing but damage it further. My bet is whatever "masters" they have have been totally corrupted over the years and so what you got is the best its gonna get, for that item anyway.

I hope I am proven wrong, but I doubt it will happen

jb

With today's technology one could work wonders even on old multitracks. The real question imo is did they have access to the original multitrack tapes at all or were they just too lazy to work with them because the soundtrack mixes sounded "ok enough" for them?

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GasLightStreet
Unfortunately whatever Clearmountain does mix wise will be made moot by the awful brickwalling hack job of mastering that Stephen Marcussen will do.

...and you're right

According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

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TravelinMan
According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

Only a very few DVDs are quad mixes?

I think pretty much every show from '72 was recorded. Someone on here posted that a '72 from the Vault either from Phili or NY was started but was abandoned mid way through to work on the Miami Voodoo release instead.

I stopped buying this trash "brickwalled, no dynamic range, all compressed and then the amplitude increased to near clip."

The Talk is cheap bonus cd makes my ears bleed ...

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glimmertwin1
I stopped buying this trash "brickwalled, no dynamic range, all compressed and then the amplitude increased to near clip."

The Talk is cheap bonus cd makes my ears bleed ...

I don't know, sometimes it's not good to be an audiophile...glad to have the bonus tracks nonetheless

I agree Mainfender, some of the mixes are odd but still worth buying. The only one that has really bad sound quality in my opinion is L&G. The other releases have odd mix choices but are listenable.

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TumblinDice76
I agree Mainfender, some of the mixes are odd but still worth buying. The only one that has really bad sound quality in my opinion is L&G. The other releases have odd mix choices but are listenable.

Miami '94 sounds incredible bad...still don't know how it passed any quality check, if there's one at all.

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Maindefender
glad to have the bonus tracks nonetheless

The very definition of "wasted opportunity" imo.
I mean KR has sessions with Don Covay in his vaults and he gives us a bunch of so-so covers and half-baked jams instead. Ouch!

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Maindefender

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glimmertwin1
I stopped buying this trash "brickwalled, no dynamic range, all compressed and then the amplitude increased to near clip."

The Talk is cheap bonus cd makes my ears bleed ...

I don't know, sometimes it's not good to be an audiophile...glad to have the bonus tracks nonetheless

So true :-) But I can enjoy things like Foxes in the boxes ! So it's the compression my ears don't like.

Spend forty years specializing in reggae music after styling yourself an audiophile for the previous 20, and your perspectives may change a bit. That's where I am coming from. I went from appreciating delicate little tympani sounds to preferring wall-of-bass-and-thunder sound mixes during those years.

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-04 21:33 by jbwelda.

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dcba

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Maindefender
glad to have the bonus tracks nonetheless

The very definition of "wasted opportunity" imo.
I mean KR has sessions with Don Covay in his vaults and he gives us a bunch of so-so covers and half-baked jams instead. Ouch!

What we got on EOMS was pretty much stuff we've heard as instrumentals, Aladin Song, Dancing In the Light, Pass The Wine....can you detail the KR Don Covay sessions a little?

I'm looking forward to the stories about how the tapes were a disaster and Mick had to get back in that time and write from a 1972 point of view and, well, they used some songs from later sessions because, you know, if you're going to bother... and hopefully there won't be any new overdubs from Keith because what he did for the EOMS extra tracks was horrible.

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dcba

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Maindefender
glad to have the bonus tracks nonetheless

The very definition of "wasted opportunity" imo.
I mean KR has sessions with Don Covay in his vaults and he gives us a bunch of so-so covers and half-baked jams instead. Ouch!

How do we know the Covay-sessions aren't "so so"?

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TravelinMan
According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

You mean the Blu Ray edition? I got rid of my original DVD once I had it on Blu Ray. It's still not all that great, but is better than the original DVD.

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24FPS

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TravelinMan
According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

You mean the Blu Ray edition? I got rid of my original DVD once I had it on Blu Ray. It's still not all that great, but is better than the original DVD.

Do you listen in surround sound?

I'm saying that's how it was mixed to be heard. I don't believe there is a dedicated stereo mix. A surround sound mix is made to be compatible in stereo (just like stereo is compatible in mono), but is not as good as an actual stereo mix.

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TravelinMan

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24FPS

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TravelinMan
According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

You mean the Blu Ray edition? I got rid of my original DVD once I had it on Blu Ray. It's still not all that great, but is better than the original DVD.

Do you listen in surround sound?

I'm saying that's how it was mixed to be heard. I don't believe there is a dedicated stereo mix. A surround sound mix is made to be compatible in stereo (just like stereo is compatible in mono), but is not as good as an actual stereo mix.

Like I said, it's still not all that great. It's not a full surround sound, but the original DVD has such crap sound that it is an improvement.

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24FPS

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TravelinMan

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24FPS

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TravelinMan
According to Andy Johns, a bunch of shows on the 1972 tour were recorded.

The best way to listen to Ladies & Gentlemen is the surround sound DVD. I believe the mix on the CD is exactly the same as listening to the DVD on stereo, hence they never made a dedicated stereo mix. Why? They might not have had a choice or they might not care.

You mean the Blu Ray edition? I got rid of my original DVD once I had it on Blu Ray. It's still not all that great, but is better than the original DVD.

Do you listen in surround sound?

I'm saying that's how it was mixed to be heard. I don't believe there is a dedicated stereo mix. A surround sound mix is made to be compatible in stereo (just like stereo is compatible in mono), but is not as good as an actual stereo mix.

Like I said, it's still not all that great. It's not a full surround sound, but the original DVD has such crap sound that it is an improvement.

Probably because it's a fold-down.

Thanks for the surround tip, i had never thought of that. So i listened to the surround DVD last night, hoping it might be good enough to isolate some channels (i have a device that does that, which is great to make your own remix on the fly from 5.1 sources). However there is little difference from the CD. It's the same soup, the guitars are buried. I tried to isolate Taylor on YCAGWYW: no luck. Just compare some soundboard tapes from STP with this: it's night and day. What a shame. I really doubt they didn't have multichannel tapes. My guess is they just didn't care.

So is the GHS reissue confirmed officially?

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Father Ted

So is the GHS reissue confirmed officially?

Officially only in the sense of the announcement on 6-Feb-2020 - [iorr.org] .