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MaindefenderQuote
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dcba
Yes I agree with myself...
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.
He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.
Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw
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Wow Jagger drinking JD on stage in '82.......interesting
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GasLightStreetQuote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
dcba
Yes I agree with myself...
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.
He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.
Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw
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Wow Jagger drinking JD on stage in '82.......interesting
That performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash is a perfect example of what's been wrong with it since 1972 - they fly through it yet play it way too long, yell and howl, it has no swagger - why bother. Horrible.
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Doxa
Nice reflections here about the album and especially of its opener.
To me "Dancing With Mr. D" has been always a difficult case. As a song it escapes all my classifications - what the hell it is - but that's not problem. So does, say, "Gimme Shelter". It is true that it sets the feel for the album, but it also kind of starts the album with a wrong foot. Since not being a very strong or distinctive song per se, all the chances to think the album as a candidate for a Big Four Era masterpiece-like are gone. There are lots of great elements there, such as a 'classical' Keith riff, a new interesting groove, the dark subject of the lyrics (inspired by "Lady in Black"?), but I cannot help it turning flat. The riff ain't that catchy after-all (but it sounded great in their latest live album), nor the groove as natural and tempting as the Stones do at their best, and the lyrics are a bit childish and cartoonish. It's not a bad song at all, quite contrary, but c'mon, it is no any "Gimme Shelter",or "Sympathy For The Devil", a kind of 'big song' they sound like aiming at, nor either any definitive rocker like "Brown Sugar" or "Rocks Off". Those I think are the songs it should be compared against to. Unfair for sure, but hey, that's the bloody standard they still had at the time. Forget any ifyoucantrockmes, hotstuffs, dances, onehits, sadsadsads, loveistrongs, fliptheswitchs, or any other rather forgettable mediocrities (compared to the Big Four starters) that were to be standards later.
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DandelionPowderman
It's funny how Keith is increasing the tempo gradually while he's playing the intro!
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Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
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Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
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Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
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TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.
very good point. This is true: there really isn't another cut from the GHS sessions that would work as opener.
The thing about "Dancing w/ Mr D" is that it is one of those songs that is always better when you actually hear it. When it is playing I'm always "Man this is pretty good". I love that low keyboard down there; can't quite tell if it s a clavinet or electric piano.
It's the chorus itself that is a little lame.
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Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
I couldn’t disagree with you more.The lyrics cry out for the fast JjFlash.There was nothing more invigorating when they closed the 1972 shows with the Speeded 3sond finale of Rip This Joint followed by JJ Flash andStreet Fighting ManQuote
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Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
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lem motlow
Goats Head Soup is a masterpiece.
The album was recorded on a break between the 1972 tour and the 1973 tour, not exactly a downturn in the bands playing abilities.
The ignorance displayed in knocking a song like Angie to me is just unforgivable.
A beautiful collaboration between Mick and Keith that takes you back to Lady Jane,Blue turns to Grey and Wild Horses.
That guitar that almost talks - can you hear the music.. the heartfelt singing “where are all my friends, coming down again.,,wish I was out out in California.,,
Went out walking through the woods the other day..
Dancing with Death, silly fools thought the D was devil,good lord listen to the damn song.
Classic rockers like Starfckr and Silver Train.if they released this today you’d be drooling so much you’d be standing in a puddle.
It's not a masterpiece. However, the best songs on GHS is up there with their best stuff ever. As an album it's natural to compare GHS with SF. Both have several slow and rather dreamy pieces of music that bring colour and set the vibe for their respective albums.
When comparing with SF it's evident for me that the rockers on GHS are not in the same league as the ones on SF. That goes for some of the ballads as well.
Rockers:
Brown Sugar vs. Dancing With Mr. D
Sway vs. Heartbreaker
Can't You Hear Me Knocking vs. Silver Train
Bitch vs. Star Star
Ballads:
Wild Horses vs. Coming Down Again
I Got The Blues vs. Angie
Moonlight Mile vs. Winter
Strong album, but not up there with SF, which IS a masterpiece, imo.
Nice try but you ultimately failed by getting lazy and going for the nuclear option i.e. using one of the big four.
I could use Sticky Fingers and destroy Abbey Road.
If you had used one of the other Stones masterpieces-December’s Children,Some Girls, Tattoo You or Out of Our Heads you would’ve had to work a little harder but you might’ve made your point.
That's a good point, actually. But I wasn't lazy. Quite the opposite actually, as I really was looking for a valid musical comparison in their catalogue. And after giving it some thought I think SF is the closest we get, when we compare the music and the overall album vibe.
December's Children, Out Of Our Heads or Some Girls would have been wrong.
Tattoo You is more interesting, but the sequencing on that album makes the vibe very different, imo (with the quiet b-side etc.).
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Taylor1I couldn’t disagree with you more.The lyrics cry out for the fast JjFlash.There was nothing more invigorating when they closed the 1972 shows with the Speeded 3sond finale of Rip This Joint followed by JJ Flash andStreet Fighting ManQuote
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Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
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Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
I think Dancing With Mr. D has somewhat of a Caribbean vibe, but more like a New Orleans/Haitian vibe.
Goats Head Soup could be a metaphor. It has a lot of different styles, unlike its predecessor, and that’s not a critique, just an observation.
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TravelinMan
I feel like Exile is a 50’s album recorded in the early 70’s by a band in their twenties, while Goats Head is thoroughly a 70’s album. The clav is a quintessential 70’s keyboard.
I don’t consider Dancing With Mr. D a rocker, but a druggy, swampy, blues. Star, Heartbreaker, Silver Train, and the latter part of 100 Years Ago Rock much harder than Mr. D.
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24FPS
They usually kicked off albums with a rocker, and there were only a handful to choose from on GHS, with Dancing With Mister D being closest to being a single. I think it's one of the things that make a lot of Stones fans consider this album uneven. Angie is simply head and shoulders above anything else on the album. Kind of like the Undercover album. Undercover of the Night simply blows away the rest of the album, although GHS, overall, was a much stronger work than Undercover.
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TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.
You are not alone here. I love "Dancing With Mr. D." It was different for the Stones starting an album off with a moody, dark and funk inspired tune rather than some rocker like "Rocks Off" from EXILE. I think it's a great representation of GOATS HEAD SOUP.
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Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.
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24FPS
Silver Train is kind of weak, a watered down All Down The Line. Dancing With Mr. D was fantastic live, in '73.
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frankotero
I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
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frankotero
If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
Perhaps I’m quibbling but up to now I don’t recall anyone referring to BB, LIB, EOMS and SF as the big 4 ‘masterpieces.’ And for good reason – crediting bands with multiple masterpieces begins to get silly and increases the likelihood of getting into even sillier conversations with Lem. It’s the BIG FOUR Period.
Goats is not part of the BIG FOUR Period. However, if you love Goats and are unable to resist the urge to call it a masterpiece I’ll allow it on two conditions: 1. that you qualify it as a ‘minor masterpiece’ and 2. that you don’t start a silly thread about which Stones albums should be classified as ‘minor masterpieces.’
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GasLightStreet
In regard to what could've been a better LP opener for GHS, what about Criss Cross?
Probably too slow. But it has a great intro.
Heartbreaker would've been the superior 'faster' opener.
If Jumpin' Jack Flash had been used on BEGGARS it would've definitely opened the album. It should've.
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frankotero
If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
Perhaps I’m quibbling but up to now I don’t recall anyone referring to BB, LIB, EOMS and SF as the big 4 ‘masterpieces.’ And for good reason – crediting bands with multiple masterpieces begins to get silly and increases the likelihood of getting into even sillier conversations with Lem. It’s the BIG FOUR Period.
Goats is not part of the BIG FOUR Period. However, if you love Goats and are unable to resist the urge to call it a masterpiece I’ll allow it on two conditions: 1. that you qualify it as a ‘minor masterpiece’ and 2. that you don’t start a silly thread about which Stones albums should be classified as ‘minor masterpieces.’
I always thought there were seven masterpieces between Beggars and Some Girls. Sticky Fingers comes in last if you want to have a contest.
Sticky Fingers has some of the very best Stones songs but it's a collection of songs more than an album. Just like Black and Blue. Let It Bleed and most of Goats Head has qualities about them the fit the songs together. It seems easy to see the songs on those albums are from a certain period with style and technique.
I love Goats Head Soup. Yum, Yum!
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Maindefender
What kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica?
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exilestones
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child.
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exilestones
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child.
I agree. The only real good "Criss Cross" is the one featured in a Japanese movie, can't recall the title - and it last for about 1:50.
It does not go anywhere after that
Goats Head Soup is one of my very very favourite RS albums. Silver Train might be the only weak track there - but there exist a better outtake version on bootleg