Tell Me :
Talk
That performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash is a perfect example of what's been wrong with it since 1972 - they fly through it yet play it way too long, yell and howl, it has no swagger - why bother. Horrible.
It's funny how Keith is increasing the tempo gradually while he's playing the intro!
In regard to what could've been a better LP opener for GHS, what about Criss Cross?
Probably too slow. But it has a great intro.
Heartbreaker would've been the superior 'faster' opener.
If Jumpin' Jack Flash had been used on BEGGARS it would've definitely opened the album. It should've.
It's called a "kick-in"...
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
I think Dancing With Mr. D has somewhat of a Caribbean vibe, but more like a New Orleans/Haitian vibe.
Goats Head Soup could be a metaphor. It has a lot of different styles, unlike its predecessor, and that’s not a critique, just an observation.
And Sweet Black Angel was more Caribbean than Mr D, imo.
I like Dancing with Mr. D but I think Star Star or Heartbreaker would have worked as an opener. Star Star would have been a kick right out of the gate.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 19:40 by boogaloojef.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 23:25 by TravelinMan.
I see , but just the fact that you had to use Sticky should tell you something, no?
As usual,we disagree but are never far apart.
Could you see the Stones naming their album Callaloo? Gumbo? Probably not.
Goats Head Soup is quirky and right in line with Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers... it's probably the last LP title that's a bit derogatory, a bit oblique in its subject AND another Stones album cover that has nothing to do with the title!
I love your feel for Exile and Goats Head. For some reasons I don't understand, it makes sense. I agree!
People expect a rocker to open the album. GHS is a different kind of animal than other Stones albums. Silver Train could have kicked off the album but that as Goats Heads Soup-ish as other songs on the album. I love Mr D. I love it as the opener.
Star Star could have kicked-off the album but that song isn't very Goats Head Soup-ish either.
Could have Angie have been the opener. Probably but I remember reading the Keith didn't want to release it as a single. Do I remember that correctly?
Jordy, you said exactly what I was feeling but couldn't get in to words.
ah, man. I feel bad for you. I love this song. One of their best. Put some headphones on and watch the video a few times. Good luck!
Especially the London version on Europe 1973 - The Ultimate Live Document
Yes, it's a masterpiece. Maybe a master piece with some bonus tracks that fit well. Silver Train and Star Star are not very Goats Head Soup-ish but the others are a very strong Goats Head Soups.
Through the Lonely Nights is more Goats Head Soup-ish than most or all of Goats Head Soup.
Goats Head Soup is a mood, a feel, styles. It's like a artist that is a painter and they have different periods in the styles and techniques. It's the same with the Stones music.
Goats Head Soup would not be Goats Head Soup if it didn't start with Mr D.
I don't think Goats Head Soup tries to compete with any other album. It's it's own thing.
I always thought there were seven masterpieces between Beggars and Some Girls. Sticky Fingers comes in last if you want to have a contest.
Sticky Fingers has some of the very best Stones songs but it's a collection of songs more than an album. Just like Black and Blue. Let It Bleed and most of Goats Head has qualities about them the fit the songs together. It seems easy to see the songs on those albums are from a certain period with style and technique.
I love Goats Head Soup. Yum, Yum!
Keep in mind that back in the days of GHS there were LPs with two sides, so the artist probably kept in mind the opener and closer of each side of the album.
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child. Great stuff but... I did and edit version of Criss Cross which I enjoy much better than the whole song.
And if there ever was an album that could in and of itself qualify as it's own 'greatest hits' package, that would have to be Sticky Fingers, with Let it Bleed a close second.
"What kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup?" Great question. I've wondered the answer for years. I guess it's kind of like a Jamaican Witch's Stew.
I agree. The only real good "Criss Cross" is the one featured in a Japanese movie, can't recall the title - and it last for about 1:50.
It does not go anywhere after that
Goats Head Soup is one of my very very favourite RS albums. Silver Train might be the only weak track there - but there exist a better outtake version on bootleg
People say Silver Train is weak. I've heard that statement many times. I've even heard great arguments as to why it's weak and they make sense. I love the song, I guess it's a lot like All Down the Line but to me, someone who doesn't play an instrument, it's a lot different. I love this song. I love to sing along. I love when that first snap of the drum kicks in. I live the harmonica train whistle. I love the Taylor solo. I love the story of the lyrics. There's more I love about it. A weak song. Not to me but I get why people say so.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:52
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
dcba
Yes I agree with myself...
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.
He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.
Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw
[www.youtube.com]
Wow Jagger drinking JD on stage in '82.......interesting
That performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash is a perfect example of what's been wrong with it since 1972 - they fly through it yet play it way too long, yell and howl, it has no swagger - why bother. Horrible.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
WorriedAboutYou
()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:56
Horrible. Doesn't even sound like the same song.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:56
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
dcba
Yes I agree with myself...
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.
He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.
Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw
[www.youtube.com]
Wow Jagger drinking JD on stage in '82.......interesting
That performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash is a perfect example of what's been wrong with it since 1972 - they fly through it yet play it way too long, yell and howl, it has no swagger - why bother. Horrible.
It's funny how Keith is increasing the tempo gradually while he's playing the intro!
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 28, 2020 16:00
Nice reflections here about the album and especially of its opener.
To me "Dancing With Mr. D" has been always a difficult case. As a song it escapes all my classifications - what the hell it is - but that's not problem. So does, say, "Gimme Shelter". It is true that it sets the feel for the album, but it also kind of starts the album with a wrong foot. Since not being a very strong or distinctive song per se, all the chances to think the album as a candidate for a Big Four Era masterpiece-like are gone. There are lots of great elements there, such as a 'classical' Keith riff, a new interesting groove, the dark subject of the lyrics (inspired by "Lady in Black"?), but I cannot help it turning flat. The riff ain't that catchy after-all (but it sounded great in their latest live album), nor the groove as natural and tempting as the Stones do at their best, and the lyrics are a bit childish and cartoonish. It's not a bad song at all, quite contrary, but c'mon, it is no any "Gimme Shelter",or "Sympathy For The Devil", a kind of 'big song' they sound like aiming at, nor either any definitive rocker like "Brown Sugar" or "Rocks Off". Those I think are the songs it should be compared against to. Unfair for sure, but hey, that's the bloody standard they still had at the time. Forget any ifyoucantrockmes, hotstuffs, dances, onehits, sadsadsads, loveistrongs, fliptheswitchs, or any other rather forgettable mediocrities (compared to the Big Four starters) that were to be standards later.
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
Which is a shame, since I think GOATS HEAD SOUP contains some very strong material, "Angie" being, of course, a timeless classic and a perfect recording by all means. But over-all the quality is rather high.
"Winter" I think is probably their best hidden gem ever, reflecting such emotions, maturity and instrumental excellence (Taylor in particular, but Jagger's vanmorrisonique vocals too) that no any other tracks of theirs they do. Another song showing untypical maturity, "100 Years Ago", is also pure gold, unique piece in their catalogue. To show what they creatively were like back then, and offer some context, there are more sublime musical elements and ideas, and fine nuances, going on in that one particular song than in the whole VOODOO LOUNGE and A BIGGER BANG put together.
"Silver Train" and "Hide Your Love" with their Americana-vibe sound like EXILE rejects, but I think had they included in that album, in a right context, they would have worked in the follow of that masterpiece album, and the over-all vibe of that album would not have been much weaker. When I recently was watching the trailor for their upcoming tour, "Silver Train" was used as a soundtrack, and damn, how great it sounded (interestingly, many songs from the album have been used as such soundtrack pieces in their recent films and clips - they seem to echo suitable sentiments needed). For me "Hide Your Love" has a similar, almost hypnotic vibe like "Just Wanna See His Face" has.
"Heartbreaker" is a dark rocker, still enough of novelty and brilliance, sounding unlike any rocker prior in their catalogue (and to me it works much better than "Mr. D", a similar effort trying to reach novelty). "Star Star", for sure, is a Berry-pastishe, telling rather evidently that their creative saga starts to be over, and they are starting to caricature-like repeat themselves than going forward, but still the song has a point. Like a reminder that no matter how much rock music has artistically evolved, all of this basically is Chuck Berry. And those over-the-top lyrics are hilarous, another reminder, this time what being a rock star is all about. If "Heartbreaker" still tries something social commentary-like, "Star Star" is nothing but a reflection of hedonistic and egoistic life style of a rock star.
There is still two numbers left, full of GOATS HEAD SOUP uniqueness. "Can Your Hear the Music?" is, whatever it is, a Monty Pythonian moment of the album. And I love Monty Python.
But then "Coming Down Again" - that one could be the true theme or key song of the album. I think it alone is the biggest reason how and why the album is viewed as a mellow, non-rocking, reflective, mature effort. Placed as a third song (after two not so high-energetic pieces, although the rich "100 Years Ago" jams at that direction), lasting over five minutes, played by slower tempo by any their song by then - that's a helluva statement how they want the album to sound like. And nobody was used to 'Keith ballads' at the time (in later years they would place such a song to finish an album). One could say, if we forget high-octanic start of EXILE, their previous masterpieces also had 'slow' songs placed similarly. But both BEGGARS and LET IT BLEED are started dramatically with such an era-defining masterpiece songs which beg one get some shelter to cool down a bit. Both "Sympathy" and "Shelter" are songs that after which there is no need to ask anything more - the Stones shoot you on head with a cannon, and all you can do is to survive somehow. The drama of those albums is builded wonderfully by being followed by such slow, reflective cuts like "No Expectations" and "Love In Vain", and then by humorous "Dear Doctor" and "Country Honk". In STICKY FINGERS the argument is already laid down with "Brown Sugar" and "Sway", so wonderful "Wild Horses" - which is easy-listening country music stuff compared to a true deep album cut like "Coming Down Again" - is a deserved moment for a rest. But for a person asking a Stones album to get one's rocks off, GOAT HEADS SOUP is doomed by its third song. Where is the party? No, it's over, all there is is a hangover left. But that's exactly that makes GOATS HEAD SOUP such an unique piece in their calatogue.
Altogether, I think GOATS HEAD SOUP is just an inch from a masterpiece. But it lacks that kind of focus, flow and determination - and especially a killer opener - to be one. No any other album of theirs suffers from its release date as it does - the comparison is always, as I did above, the four previous albums, the greatest four-album sequence in the rock history - and GOATS HEAD SOUP is the unfortunate one, which, if we are to believe rock press and literature, starts their 70's decline or 'mid-70's low period'. But there is another dimension, which makes for the album a bad name in their history. Namely, historically speaking, that kind of mature, mellow, reflective effort, lead by the hit single "Angie", set them into irrelevance as far as the story of trendy rock and roll go. They were getting old and bloody hell, also sounded like that too. "Whatever you do, guys, do not grow up gracefully, that wouldn't suit for ya" as Pete T. once said... and, unfortunately, was right. In their next two albums The Stones would still flirt with maturation - but not so convincingly and deeply as in GOATS HEAD SOUP - until the joyful and vital SOME GIRLS brought them back to eternal joys of neverneverland...
If I'd to be rank the album, I would place it after the BIG FOUR, followed by SOME GIRLS, among the albums like AFTERMATH, TATTOO YOU and their first. So it is rather high in my book - and more older I get, more I seem to like it... My guilty pleasure so to speak.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 16:21 by Doxa.
To me "Dancing With Mr. D" has been always a difficult case. As a song it escapes all my classifications - what the hell it is - but that's not problem. So does, say, "Gimme Shelter". It is true that it sets the feel for the album, but it also kind of starts the album with a wrong foot. Since not being a very strong or distinctive song per se, all the chances to think the album as a candidate for a Big Four Era masterpiece-like are gone. There are lots of great elements there, such as a 'classical' Keith riff, a new interesting groove, the dark subject of the lyrics (inspired by "Lady in Black"?), but I cannot help it turning flat. The riff ain't that catchy after-all (but it sounded great in their latest live album), nor the groove as natural and tempting as the Stones do at their best, and the lyrics are a bit childish and cartoonish. It's not a bad song at all, quite contrary, but c'mon, it is no any "Gimme Shelter",or "Sympathy For The Devil", a kind of 'big song' they sound like aiming at, nor either any definitive rocker like "Brown Sugar" or "Rocks Off". Those I think are the songs it should be compared against to. Unfair for sure, but hey, that's the bloody standard they still had at the time. Forget any ifyoucantrockmes, hotstuffs, dances, onehits, sadsadsads, loveistrongs, fliptheswitchs, or any other rather forgettable mediocrities (compared to the Big Four starters) that were to be standards later.
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
Which is a shame, since I think GOATS HEAD SOUP contains some very strong material, "Angie" being, of course, a timeless classic and a perfect recording by all means. But over-all the quality is rather high.
"Winter" I think is probably their best hidden gem ever, reflecting such emotions, maturity and instrumental excellence (Taylor in particular, but Jagger's vanmorrisonique vocals too) that no any other tracks of theirs they do. Another song showing untypical maturity, "100 Years Ago", is also pure gold, unique piece in their catalogue. To show what they creatively were like back then, and offer some context, there are more sublime musical elements and ideas, and fine nuances, going on in that one particular song than in the whole VOODOO LOUNGE and A BIGGER BANG put together.
"Silver Train" and "Hide Your Love" with their Americana-vibe sound like EXILE rejects, but I think had they included in that album, in a right context, they would have worked in the follow of that masterpiece album, and the over-all vibe of that album would not have been much weaker. When I recently was watching the trailor for their upcoming tour, "Silver Train" was used as a soundtrack, and damn, how great it sounded (interestingly, many songs from the album have been used as such soundtrack pieces in their recent films and clips - they seem to echo suitable sentiments needed). For me "Hide Your Love" has a similar, almost hypnotic vibe like "Just Wanna See His Face" has.
"Heartbreaker" is a dark rocker, still enough of novelty and brilliance, sounding unlike any rocker prior in their catalogue (and to me it works much better than "Mr. D", a similar effort trying to reach novelty). "Star Star", for sure, is a Berry-pastishe, telling rather evidently that their creative saga starts to be over, and they are starting to caricature-like repeat themselves than going forward, but still the song has a point. Like a reminder that no matter how much rock music has artistically evolved, all of this basically is Chuck Berry. And those over-the-top lyrics are hilarous, another reminder, this time what being a rock star is all about. If "Heartbreaker" still tries something social commentary-like, "Star Star" is nothing but a reflection of hedonistic and egoistic life style of a rock star.
There is still two numbers left, full of GOATS HEAD SOUP uniqueness. "Can Your Hear the Music?" is, whatever it is, a Monty Pythonian moment of the album. And I love Monty Python.
But then "Coming Down Again" - that one could be the true theme or key song of the album. I think it alone is the biggest reason how and why the album is viewed as a mellow, non-rocking, reflective, mature effort. Placed as a third song (after two not so high-energetic pieces, although the rich "100 Years Ago" jams at that direction), lasting over five minutes, played by slower tempo by any their song by then - that's a helluva statement how they want the album to sound like. And nobody was used to 'Keith ballads' at the time (in later years they would place such a song to finish an album). One could say, if we forget high-octanic start of EXILE, their previous masterpieces also had 'slow' songs placed similarly. But both BEGGARS and LET IT BLEED are started dramatically with such an era-defining masterpiece songs which beg one get some shelter to cool down a bit. Both "Sympathy" and "Shelter" are songs that after which there is no need to ask anything more - the Stones shoot you on head with a cannon, and all you can do is to survive somehow. The drama of those albums is builded wonderfully by being followed by such slow, reflective cuts like "No Expectations" and "Love In Vain", and then by humorous "Dear Doctor" and "Country Honk". In STICKY FINGERS the argument is already laid down with "Brown Sugar" and "Sway", so wonderful "Wild Horses" - which is easy-listening country music stuff compared to a true deep album cut like "Coming Down Again" - is a deserved moment for a rest. But for a person asking a Stones album to get one's rocks off, GOAT HEADS SOUP is doomed by its third song. Where is the party? No, it's over, all there is is a hangover left. But that's exactly that makes GOATS HEAD SOUP such an unique piece in their calatogue.
Altogether, I think GOATS HEAD SOUP is just an inch from a masterpiece. But it lacks that kind of focus, flow and determination - and especially a killer opener - to be one. No any other album of theirs suffers from its release date as it does - the comparison is always, as I did above, the four previous albums, the greatest four-album sequence in the rock history - and GOATS HEAD SOUP is the unfortunate one, which, if we are to believe rock press and literature, starts their 70's decline or 'mid-70's low period'. But there is another dimension, which makes for the album a bad name in their history. Namely, historically speaking, that kind of mature, mellow, reflective effort, lead by the hit single "Angie", set them into irrelevance as far as the story of trendy rock and roll go. They were getting old and bloody hell, also sounded like that too. "Whatever you do, guys, do not grow up gracefully, that wouldn't suit for ya" as Pete T. once said... and, unfortunately, was right. In their next two albums The Stones would still flirt with maturation - but not so convincingly and deeply as in GOATS HEAD SOUP - until the joyful and vital SOME GIRLS brought them back to eternal joys of neverneverland...
If I'd to be rank the album, I would place it after the BIG FOUR, followed by SOME GIRLS, among the albums like AFTERMATH, TATTOO YOU and their first. So it is rather high in my book - and more older I get, more I seem to like it... My guilty pleasure so to speak.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 16:21 by Doxa.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: February 28, 2020 16:15
Great post, Doxa.
Excellent description of GHS as a hangover album. Perfect to play at a reasonable volume on the morning after a late night. "Where are all my friends, coming down again...."
Excellent description of GHS as a hangover album. Perfect to play at a reasonable volume on the morning after a late night. "Where are all my friends, coming down again...."
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 28, 2020 16:15
Quote
Doxa
Nice reflections here about the album and especially of its opener.
To me "Dancing With Mr. D" has been always a difficult case. As a song it escapes all my classifications - what the hell it is - but that's not problem. So does, say, "Gimme Shelter". It is true that it sets the feel for the album, but it also kind of starts the album with a wrong foot. Since not being a very strong or distinctive song per se, all the chances to think the album as a candidate for a Big Four Era masterpiece-like are gone. There are lots of great elements there, such as a 'classical' Keith riff, a new interesting groove, the dark subject of the lyrics (inspired by "Lady in Black"?), but I cannot help it turning flat. The riff ain't that catchy after-all (but it sounded great in their latest live album), nor the groove as natural and tempting as the Stones do at their best, and the lyrics are a bit childish and cartoonish. It's not a bad song at all, quite contrary, but c'mon, it is no any "Gimme Shelter",or "Sympathy For The Devil", a kind of 'big song' they sound like aiming at, nor either any definitive rocker like "Brown Sugar" or "Rocks Off". Those I think are the songs it should be compared against to. Unfair for sure, but hey, that's the bloody standard they still had at the time. Forget any ifyoucantrockmes, hotstuffs, dances, onehits, sadsadsads, loveistrongs, fliptheswitchs, or any other rather forgettable mediocrities (compared to the Big Four starters) that were to be standards later.
In regard to what could've been a better LP opener for GHS, what about Criss Cross?
Probably too slow. But it has a great intro.
Heartbreaker would've been the superior 'faster' opener.
If Jumpin' Jack Flash had been used on BEGGARS it would've definitely opened the album. It should've.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: February 28, 2020 17:09
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's funny how Keith is increasing the tempo gradually while he's playing the intro!
It's called a "kick-in"...
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: February 28, 2020 17:34
Quote
Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: February 28, 2020 18:20
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
I think Dancing With Mr. D has somewhat of a Caribbean vibe, but more like a New Orleans/Haitian vibe.
Goats Head Soup could be a metaphor. It has a lot of different styles, unlike its predecessor, and that’s not a critique, just an observation.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: February 28, 2020 18:25
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 28, 2020 18:32
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
And Sweet Black Angel was more Caribbean than Mr D, imo.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: February 28, 2020 19:36
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.
very good point. This is true: there really isn't another cut from the GHS sessions that would work as opener.
The thing about "Dancing w/ Mr D" is that it is one of those songs that is always better when you actually hear it. When it is playing I'm always "Man this is pretty good". I love that low keyboard down there; can't quite tell if it s a clavinet or electric piano.
It's the chorus itself that is a little lame.
I like Dancing with Mr. D but I think Star Star or Heartbreaker would have worked as an opener. Star Star would have been a kick right out of the gate.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 19:40 by boogaloojef.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: February 28, 2020 23:24
Quote
Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 23:25 by TravelinMan.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 29, 2020 04:23
I couldn’t disagree with you more.The lyrics cry out for the fast JjFlash.There was nothing more invigorating when they closed the 1972 shows with the Speeded 3sond finale of Rip This Joint followed by JJ Flash andStreet Fighting ManQuote
TravelinManQuote
Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: February 29, 2020 07:16
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
lem motlowQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
lem motlow
Goats Head Soup is a masterpiece.
The album was recorded on a break between the 1972 tour and the 1973 tour, not exactly a downturn in the bands playing abilities.
The ignorance displayed in knocking a song like Angie to me is just unforgivable.
A beautiful collaboration between Mick and Keith that takes you back to Lady Jane,Blue turns to Grey and Wild Horses.
That guitar that almost talks - can you hear the music.. the heartfelt singing “where are all my friends, coming down again.,,wish I was out out in California.,,
Went out walking through the woods the other day..
Dancing with Death, silly fools thought the D was devil,good lord listen to the damn song.
Classic rockers like Starfckr and Silver Train.if they released this today you’d be drooling so much you’d be standing in a puddle.
It's not a masterpiece. However, the best songs on GHS is up there with their best stuff ever. As an album it's natural to compare GHS with SF. Both have several slow and rather dreamy pieces of music that bring colour and set the vibe for their respective albums.
When comparing with SF it's evident for me that the rockers on GHS are not in the same league as the ones on SF. That goes for some of the ballads as well.
Rockers:
Brown Sugar vs. Dancing With Mr. D
Sway vs. Heartbreaker
Can't You Hear Me Knocking vs. Silver Train
Bitch vs. Star Star
Ballads:
Wild Horses vs. Coming Down Again
I Got The Blues vs. Angie
Moonlight Mile vs. Winter
Strong album, but not up there with SF, which IS a masterpiece, imo.
Nice try but you ultimately failed by getting lazy and going for the nuclear option i.e. using one of the big four.
I could use Sticky Fingers and destroy Abbey Road.
If you had used one of the other Stones masterpieces-December’s Children,Some Girls, Tattoo You or Out of Our Heads you would’ve had to work a little harder but you might’ve made your point.
That's a good point, actually. But I wasn't lazy. Quite the opposite actually, as I really was looking for a valid musical comparison in their catalogue. And after giving it some thought I think SF is the closest we get, when we compare the music and the overall album vibe.
December's Children, Out Of Our Heads or Some Girls would have been wrong.
Tattoo You is more interesting, but the sequencing on that album makes the vibe very different, imo (with the quiet b-side etc.).
I see , but just the fact that you had to use Sticky should tell you something, no?
As usual,we disagree but are never far apart.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: February 29, 2020 08:10
Quote
Taylor1I couldn’t disagree with you more.The lyrics cry out for the fast JjFlash.There was nothing more invigorating when they closed the 1972 shows with the Speeded 3sond finale of Rip This Joint followed by JJ Flash andStreet Fighting ManQuote
TravelinManQuote
Elmo Lewis
I'm thinking its predecessor had lots of different styles too.
It had a fair amount of influences of course; I should have said it expanded on its predecessor. There definitely isn’t any funk (which was new modern music at the time) on Exile. GHS is like a concise album where almost each song is a different genre or sub genre .
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:04
Quote
TravelinManQuote
MaindefenderQuote
Doxa
Probably the case of "Mr. D" and GOATS HEAD SOUP is similar to SATANIC MAJESTIES: "Sing This All Together" pretty sets and mirrors the atmosphere of the album, but at the same time simply states - 'oh no, this ain't gonna work'. Despite the album including material belonging to their very best ever ("She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" in particular, followed by "Citadel" and "2000 Man").
- Doxa
Doxa, I like your GHS/Satanic analogy. Maybe if GHS was called Black & Blue I would have understood it better. Seriously, what kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica? Very much a Satanic moment, although today especially with the mono release I LOVE Satanic Majesties. That being said, looking forward to the Deluxe and a cleaner mudier sound
I think Dancing With Mr. D has somewhat of a Caribbean vibe, but more like a New Orleans/Haitian vibe.
Goats Head Soup could be a metaphor. It has a lot of different styles, unlike its predecessor, and that’s not a critique, just an observation.
Could you see the Stones naming their album Callaloo? Gumbo? Probably not.
Goats Head Soup is quirky and right in line with Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers... it's probably the last LP title that's a bit derogatory, a bit oblique in its subject AND another Stones album cover that has nothing to do with the title!
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:38
Quote
TravelinMan
I feel like Exile is a 50’s album recorded in the early 70’s by a band in their twenties, while Goats Head is thoroughly a 70’s album. The clav is a quintessential 70’s keyboard.
I don’t consider Dancing With Mr. D a rocker, but a druggy, swampy, blues. Star, Heartbreaker, Silver Train, and the latter part of 100 Years Ago Rock much harder than Mr. D.
I love your feel for Exile and Goats Head. For some reasons I don't understand, it makes sense. I agree!
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:40
Mr D sets the mood and tone for the whole album. It's an excellent opener.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:45
Quote
24FPS
They usually kicked off albums with a rocker, and there were only a handful to choose from on GHS, with Dancing With Mister D being closest to being a single. I think it's one of the things that make a lot of Stones fans consider this album uneven. Angie is simply head and shoulders above anything else on the album. Kind of like the Undercover album. Undercover of the Night simply blows away the rest of the album, although GHS, overall, was a much stronger work than Undercover.
People expect a rocker to open the album. GHS is a different kind of animal than other Stones albums. Silver Train could have kicked off the album but that as Goats Heads Soup-ish as other songs on the album. I love Mr D. I love it as the opener.
Star Star could have kicked-off the album but that song isn't very Goats Head Soup-ish either.
Could have Angie have been the opener. Probably but I remember reading the Keith didn't want to release it as a single. Do I remember that correctly?
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:47
Quote
JordyLicks96Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.
You are not alone here. I love "Dancing With Mr. D." It was different for the Stones starting an album off with a moody, dark and funk inspired tune rather than some rocker like "Rocks Off" from EXILE. I think it's a great representation of GOATS HEAD SOUP.
Jordy, you said exactly what I was feeling but couldn't get in to words.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:49
Quote
Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.
ah, man. I feel bad for you. I love this song. One of their best. Put some headphones on and watch the video a few times. Good luck!
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 16:55
Quote
24FPS
Silver Train is kind of weak, a watered down All Down The Line. Dancing With Mr. D was fantastic live, in '73.
Especially the London version on Europe 1973 - The Ultimate Live Document
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:03
Quote
frankotero
I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
Yes, it's a masterpiece. Maybe a master piece with some bonus tracks that fit well. Silver Train and Star Star are not very Goats Head Soup-ish but the others are a very strong Goats Head Soups.
Through the Lonely Nights is more Goats Head Soup-ish than most or all of Goats Head Soup.
Goats Head Soup is a mood, a feel, styles. It's like a artist that is a painter and they have different periods in the styles and techniques. It's the same with the Stones music.
Goats Head Soup would not be Goats Head Soup if it didn't start with Mr D.
I don't think Goats Head Soup tries to compete with any other album. It's it's own thing.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:12
Quote
Swayed1967Quote
frankotero
If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
Perhaps I’m quibbling but up to now I don’t recall anyone referring to BB, LIB, EOMS and SF as the big 4 ‘masterpieces.’ And for good reason – crediting bands with multiple masterpieces begins to get silly and increases the likelihood of getting into even sillier conversations with Lem. It’s the BIG FOUR Period.
Goats is not part of the BIG FOUR Period. However, if you love Goats and are unable to resist the urge to call it a masterpiece I’ll allow it on two conditions: 1. that you qualify it as a ‘minor masterpiece’ and 2. that you don’t start a silly thread about which Stones albums should be classified as ‘minor masterpieces.’
I always thought there were seven masterpieces between Beggars and Some Girls. Sticky Fingers comes in last if you want to have a contest.
Sticky Fingers has some of the very best Stones songs but it's a collection of songs more than an album. Just like Black and Blue. Let It Bleed and most of Goats Head has qualities about them the fit the songs together. It seems easy to see the songs on those albums are from a certain period with style and technique.
I love Goats Head Soup. Yum, Yum!
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:29
Quote
GasLightStreet
In regard to what could've been a better LP opener for GHS, what about Criss Cross?
Probably too slow. But it has a great intro.
Heartbreaker would've been the superior 'faster' opener.
If Jumpin' Jack Flash had been used on BEGGARS it would've definitely opened the album. It should've.
Keep in mind that back in the days of GHS there were LPs with two sides, so the artist probably kept in mind the opener and closer of each side of the album.
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child. Great stuff but... I did and edit version of Criss Cross which I enjoy much better than the whole song.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:30
Quote
exilestonesQuote
Swayed1967Quote
frankotero
If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.
Perhaps I’m quibbling but up to now I don’t recall anyone referring to BB, LIB, EOMS and SF as the big 4 ‘masterpieces.’ And for good reason – crediting bands with multiple masterpieces begins to get silly and increases the likelihood of getting into even sillier conversations with Lem. It’s the BIG FOUR Period.
Goats is not part of the BIG FOUR Period. However, if you love Goats and are unable to resist the urge to call it a masterpiece I’ll allow it on two conditions: 1. that you qualify it as a ‘minor masterpiece’ and 2. that you don’t start a silly thread about which Stones albums should be classified as ‘minor masterpieces.’
I always thought there were seven masterpieces between Beggars and Some Girls. Sticky Fingers comes in last if you want to have a contest.
Sticky Fingers has some of the very best Stones songs but it's a collection of songs more than an album. Just like Black and Blue. Let It Bleed and most of Goats Head has qualities about them the fit the songs together. It seems easy to see the songs on those albums are from a certain period with style and technique.
I love Goats Head Soup. Yum, Yum!
And if there ever was an album that could in and of itself qualify as it's own 'greatest hits' package, that would have to be Sticky Fingers, with Let it Bleed a close second.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:34
Quote
Maindefender
What kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup??..I understand possibly a Jamaican delicacy, but where's there even a hint of Reggae/Jamaica?
"What kind of album title is Goat's Head Soup?" Great question. I've wondered the answer for years. I guess it's kind of like a Jamaican Witch's Stew.
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:36
Quote
exilestones
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child.
I agree. The only real good "Criss Cross" is the one featured in a Japanese movie, can't recall the title - and it last for about 1:50.
It does not go anywhere after that
Goats Head Soup is one of my very very favourite RS albums. Silver Train might be the only weak track there - but there exist a better outtake version on bootleg
Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: February 29, 2020 17:43
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
exilestones
I get why Criss Cross didn't get on GHS. It drags on and doesn't go anywhere after a while just like High Way Child.
I agree. The only real good "Criss Cross" is the one featured in a Japanese movie, can't recall the title - and it last for about 1:50.
It does not go anywhere after that
Goats Head Soup is one of my very very favourite RS albums. Silver Train might be the only weak track there - but there exist a better outtake version on bootleg
People say Silver Train is weak. I've heard that statement many times. I've even heard great arguments as to why it's weak and they make sense. I love the song, I guess it's a lot like All Down the Line but to me, someone who doesn't play an instrument, it's a lot different. I love this song. I love to sing along. I love when that first snap of the drum kicks in. I live the harmonica train whistle. I love the Taylor solo. I love the story of the lyrics. There's more I love about it. A weak song. Not to me but I get why people say so.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Angie73 , Bjorn , Dan , DandelionPowderman , Doc , eduardoacdc , frankotero , HardRiffin , hot stuff , jumpingjflash , Justjon , novica , P@py , poti , Spud , Stonesfan2146 , Topi , vlover , Whale
Guests:
1698
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10