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nick
Then "There you go again" Dijon starts chirpin about people that didn't approve are preaching, attempting to convert people and should go elsewhere.
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keithsman
MichaelLessen.
You start by saying let's stick to the facts and then turn age 15 into 16.
Then basically a rant about sociopathic behaviour. I get your point, she was 15 and what's the big deal because of a number if the kid had fun. But no one is above the law, that's a fact.
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TornAndFriedQuote
keithsman
MichaelLessen.
You start by saying let's stick to the facts and then turn age 15 into 16.
Then basically a rant about sociopathic behaviour. I get your point, she was 15 and what's the big deal because of a number if the kid had fun. But no one is above the law, that's a fact.
RDC was born in 1961 and she said this alleged incident occurred in 1977 so it's hard to say if she was actually 15 or 16. Not that it matters much. Nothing psychopathic about Mick's behavior. There was no force or violence or coercion here. Just two people having a groovy time together with no one getting hurt.
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keithsman
MichaelLessen.
You start by saying let's stick to the facts and then turn age 15 into 16.
Then basically a rant about sociopathic behaviour. I get your point, she was 15 and what's the big deal because of a number if the kid had fun. But no one is above the law, that's a fact.
RDC was born in 1961 and she said this alleged incident occurred in 1977 so it's hard to say if she was actually 15 or 16. Not that it matters much. Nothing psychopathic about Mick's behavior. There was no force or violence or coercion here. Just two people having a groovy time together with no one getting hurt.
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keithsmanQuote
TornAndFriedQuote
keithsman
MichaelLessen.
You start by saying let's stick to the facts and then turn age 15 into 16.
Then basically a rant about sociopathic behaviour. I get your point, she was 15 and what's the big deal because of a number if the kid had fun. But no one is above the law, that's a fact.
RDC was born in 1961 and she said this alleged incident occurred in 1977 so it's hard to say if she was actually 15 or 16. Not that it matters much. Nothing psychopathic about Mick's behavior. There was no force or violence or coercion here. Just two people having a groovy time together with no one getting hurt.
I think it's safe to say if any of her story is to be believed she knew how old she was at the time, that's a landmark surely, give her some credit. I don't think anyone has said it was psychopathic behaviour on Mick's part, not sure where you picked that up from?
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frankotero
I think he means the people being judgemental here are displaying "sociopath" behavior. Not Mick.
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Hairball
As a ten year old in 5th grade in '73 , our teacher forced our class to sing this song every morning.
She was a true quack of a teacher, but admit I kind of liked the song then and still do now - in fact I liked most Carpenters songs .
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TheGreek
Ok, this is fairly simple to discus and digest . No matter what time period or civilization or ,or morals or customs or the way it was done way back when . It's just wrong and indefensible . Would anyone who condones or think this is no big deal believe it's okay if it was your daughter or sister or cousin or friend etc. ? This is such a common sense issue on morals and morality . People have to be of a certain age to have the knowledge and wisdom in order to decide for themselves if they want to engage in this type of activity or behavior . We are supposed to be a civilized society ,not behave like there are no laws and just run wild and do whatever floats our boats . Celebrity and wealth still does not excuse criminal behavior. Besides there is a higher power "who will come again to judge the living and the dead "
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nickQuote
GasLightStreet
Are you Tomi Lahren? Kind of sounds like it.
You're beyond assumptive. In a plethora of ways.
How much Tomi Lahren do you watch to make an "assumptive" comment like that? Doesn't she have a political show? We're not gonna go there.
I wasn't even going comment in this thread until Torn and Fried was cool with it as long as it was consensual. Then "There you go again" Dijon starts chirpin about people that didn't approve are preaching, attempting to convert people and should go elsewhere.
Here's assumptive for ya: I fully expect one your classic Gas Light(ing) responses along the lines of "My opinion is right, your's is wrong" as they all are.
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nickQuote
GasLightStreet
Are you Tomi Lahren? Kind of sounds like it.
You're beyond assumptive. In a plethora of ways.
How much Tomi Lahren do you watch to make an "assumptive" comment like that? Doesn't she have a political show? We're not gonna go there.
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SomeGuyQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
SomeGuyQuote
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nick
As myself being a person of unsavory character, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating
You miss my point which since I apparently talk endlessly in an inflated fashion saying nothing of value (thank you for that) must be my fault.
Try two other viewpoints: We all know Keith was a junkie. That doesn't mean we're okay with people using heroin. We understood that when we became fans unless we're old enough to have been a fan before 1968. We're not scandalized to hear more junkie stories about him.
We all know about Bill and Mandy. That doesn't mean we're okay with underage sex, but we knew "Stray Cat Blues," "Summer Romance," and "So Young" and didn't imagine they were fantasizing. It was part of their lives.
They're outlaws. We don't hold them to society's standards. Sometimes they came close to being held to it by the Establishment, but most of us are glad they didn't do time and got off with wrist slappings. Some of us point out quite fairly that's the privilege of wealth and is unfair, but we didn't want the band broken up in 1967 any more than we did in 1977 or 1986. Whether we like to admit it or not, we're glad they're outlaws who got away with the crime even if we wouldn't be okay if it was us, our friends, our neighbors, our co-workers doing the same thing. It's the same mentality that made gangsters folk heroes. They transgress what we can't and it appeals to us and we try not to think about the consequences for those who were hurt by their actions.
If that's still being long-winded and devoid of meaning, I can't help you. For what it's worth, while I may have responded to your post immediately before mine, I was directing it to the outrage of many, not one. Yes, it was wrong of Mick. No, we shouldn't be surprised. Yes, it was wrong of Keith with Quincy Jones' underage (according to her) daughter. No, we shouldn't be surprised. And on and on. It's what they do. They had the opportunity, the power, and the notoriety to do what would have been unthinkable had they not been stars. We might tell ourselves we wouldn't have made the same terrible mistakes, but we can't honestly know that not having the same circumstances in which to choose.
I strongly disagree with this, Rocky, if I may chime in here.
No, it is not surprising, but no, it is also not something we should appreciate in them, just as gangsters are not folk heroes. The criterium, for me, is about hurting other people. Doing heroin isn't the same as abusing children or murdering people. The 'bad' part of the Stones had everything to do with their rebellious attitude against stupid drug laws, oppressive social standards and conservative bourgeois ways of living in the 50s and 60s, and nothing with hurting people.
Has anyone alive ever said that the Stones have hurt them?
You know, the awful songs aside. Have any of the Stones abused any children or murdered anyone? Times change. It's one thing to go, Oh it's Mick Jagger, of COURSE it's true!
In the 2020 world if enough people choose not to believe it then... it's not true. And in 3 days it will be forgotten.
I think I already said something along those lines earlier.
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keithsman
Are you telling us artists have to be dirty old men to entertain us?
No, I'm saying we may say certain behavior is morally wrong, but if it doesn't directly impact us, we'll forget about it and go back to enjoying an artist's work or supporting a politician because the benefit we derive means more than the momentary moral dilemma we face - particularly when we know they'll likely get away with it anyway.
I mean we don't see women behave that way very often.
Women in power sometimes behave as badly as men. That includes all the schoolteachers that make the news. Women are just as fallible.
Are you saying if the average guy in the street wins the lottery he's going to find the nearest teenager...because that's basically what men do?
No, I'm saying many grown men (and women) find teenagers sexually attractive. If those teenagers were begging those same adults to let them please them because their teenage hormones were telling them they adored these particular adults, resistance might not be as easy as some of us seem to think. Be grateful people aren't always currying your favor or you might be surprised at how quickly you accept all kinds of things you never would have when you were grounded in reality.
If you said people get into this industry to manipulate situations and the environment around them and hold the power I'd say you are onto something.
I think there are all sorts of reasons people seek fame and power. I suspect a very small percentage are primarily motivated by a desire to manipulate situations. I think of it more as an occupational hazard.
I mean money keeps people silent and fame is intimidating and overwhelming to young people.
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sdstonesguy
Just want to ensure I get the rules here.
Talking about politics is out.
Debating the merits of child molestation is in.
BV...please confirm.
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SomeGuy
I don't think 13 is ok anywhere in Europe.
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treaclefingersQuote
Hairball
As a ten year old in 5th grade in '73 , our teacher forced our class to sing this song every morning.
She was a true quack of a teacher, but admit I kind of liked the song then and still do now - in fact I liked most Carpenters songs .
This is wild...I was also in Grade 5... in '75, and we also sang that song several times in class.
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nickQuote
GasLightStreet
Are you Tomi Lahren? Kind of sounds like it.
You're beyond assumptive. In a plethora of ways.
How much Tomi Lahren do you watch to make an "assumptive" comment like that? Doesn't she have a political show? We're not gonna go there.
No, her show is just ignorant baseless opinion.
So now you get why I said what I said.