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dcba

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TheGreek
gross and inappropriate in this day and age with Me Too

One basic mistake people make is judging the past thru the eyes of today.
Name one rock star from the 70's who did not use his superstar status to bed underage girls... I think Keith never did it. But Page or Plant? or the guys in the Who?

Ok, but we don't have to glorify it either .

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TornAndFried

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nick

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dcba
One basic mistake people make is judging the past thru the eyes of today.
Name one rock star from the 70's who did not use his superstar status to bed underage girls... I think Keith never did it. But Page or Plant? or the guys in the Who?

LOL, with tens of thousands of girls to choose from they had use "superstar status" to go after an underage girl. They couldn't find a hotter 18yr old? There's something more to that thought process then just sex. I mean really, out of all the girls they could get, that 15yr old is "the one"?

Maybe they like the fact that the 15 y.o. girl hasn't been with 20 other guys like the 18 y.o. groupie.

Seriously ?

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TornAndFried

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nick

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dcba
One basic mistake people make is judging the past thru the eyes of today.
Name one rock star from the 70's who did not use his superstar status to bed underage girls... I think Keith never did it. But Page or Plant? or the guys in the Who?

LOL, with tens of thousands of girls to choose from they had use "superstar status" to go after an underage girl. They couldn't find a hotter 18yr old? There's something more to that thought process then just sex. I mean really, out of all the girls they could get, that 15yr old is "the one"?

RDC said she viewed the whole experience as empowering and pleasant, so obviously she doesn't regret it. If she feels that way why would anyone else feel a need to judge Mick Jagger for providing her with a good experience?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-03 19:39 by TornAndFried.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-03 19:38 by steffialicia.

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mtaylor
Could it affect the tour?
A smart lawyer could convince RDC to sue him and then MJ has committed a crime and could be banned from US.

If so, then just come to Europe for a tour. We are ready.

The statute of limitations has long since expired.

While you're rounding up your fellow villagers with their torches so you can storm the castle, kindly remember these are criminals who took lots of illegal drugs and played with guns; have serial addictions to sex, drugs, and alcohol; and (yes) glorified their scandalous behavior as part of their image, in their lyrics, and in their artistic expression from cover art to tour inflatables to video images to advertising.

They are bad people doing what they please. That's the point. That means being unfaithful, sleeping with underage girls, playing with the occult, hanging with dangerous criminals, and behaving like moral degenerates. That's who they are. They don't apologize for being transparent.

If you've suddenly developed a moral compass that says The Rolling Stones are shameful people, don't tell it to fans on their messageboard. Go find Jesus or political correctness or whatever else makes you feel morally superior and stop listening to what offends you. You're no longer a fan. I salute your maturity and responsibility. Just please don't waste anyone's time here trying to convert them. Most of us knew what we were getting when we bought the ticket. The truth is, the bad behavior is a big part of why we love them.

Couldn't care less. 40+ years ago.

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TornAndFried
RDC said she viewed the whole experience as empowering and pleasant. So obviously she doesn't regret it. If she feels that way why would anyone feel a need to judge Mick Jagger for providing her with a good experience?

Rock stars can have anyone. If that someone is underage then the mindset is more predatory than sex. The only judgment is the error in judgment by ANYONE who chooses to do that. For any rock star to do it is unnecessary. There's simply so many others to choose from. Is there anyone one here that would say they would have done the same thing? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Is 3 years under 18 that much of a "premium" that you had to go for it?

Privileged/wealthy people follow different rules, can't say I like it but it's a fact of life that we should understand and accept, otherwise we'll be banging our heads against the wall. In these circles if it's consentual and I suppose it was, then who's to complain about it. Kind of sensational news for her to release at this time.

DCBA...." Keith Never Did It!"......how would you ever propose to know THAT?? LOL!! Much ado about nothing....and I am a defender of women's rights but this has nothing to do with the #METOO movement. Rae said Mick had no idea of her age and she was totally into it. No story here.

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nick

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TornAndFried
RDC said she viewed the whole experience as empowering and pleasant. So obviously she doesn't regret it. If she feels that way why would anyone feel a need to judge Mick Jagger for providing her with a good experience?

Rock stars can have anyone. If that someone is underage then the mindset is more predatory than sex. The only judgment is the error in judgment by ANYONE who chooses to do that. For any rock star to do it is unnecessary. There's simply so many others to choose from. Is there anyone one here that would say they would have done the same thing? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Is 3 years under 18 that much of a "premium" that you had to go for it?

What difference does numerical age make? I'm sure RDC was not a typical teenager. She had a wildly different upbringing than most and was probably very mature and experienced for her age. I doubt Mick would have been interested in her otherwise. He has never been accused of being "predatory" by any of the hundreds of woman he has been with and she herself said she found the experience pleasant and "empowering." So to answer your question yes, I think you are looking at it wrong.

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Rocky Dijon
If you want wholesome performers, then listen to The Carpenters.

I love The Carpenters...

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Rocky Dijon
While you're rounding up your fellow villagers with their torches so you can storm the castle, kindly remember these are criminals who took lots of illegal drugs and played with guns; have serial addictions to sex, drugs, and alcohol; and (yes) glorified their scandalous behavior as part of their image, in their lyrics, and in their artistic expression from cover art to tour inflatables to video images to advertising.

They are bad people doing what they please. That's the point. That means being unfaithful, sleeping with underage girls, playing with the occult, hanging with dangerous criminals, and behaving like moral degenerates. That's who they are. They don't apologize for being transparent.

If you've suddenly developed a moral compass that says The Rolling Stones are shameful people, don't tell it to fans on their messageboard. Go find Jesus or political correctness or whatever else makes you feel morally superior and stop listening to what offends you. You're no longer a fan. I salute your maturity and responsibility. Just please don't waste anyone's time here trying to convert them. Most of us knew what we were getting when we bought the ticket. The truth is, the bad behavior is a big part of why we love them.

As myself being a person of unsavory character, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating

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Rocky Dijon
While you're rounding up your fellow villagers with their torches so you can storm the castle, kindly remember these are criminals who took lots of illegal drugs and played with guns; have serial addictions to sex, drugs, and alcohol; and (yes) glorified their scandalous behavior as part of their image, in their lyrics, and in their artistic expression from cover art to tour inflatables to video images to advertising.

They are bad people doing what they please. That's the point. That means being unfaithful, sleeping with underage girls, playing with the occult, hanging with dangerous criminals, and behaving like moral degenerates. That's who they are. They don't apologize for being transparent.

If you've suddenly developed a moral compass that says The Rolling Stones are shameful people, don't tell it to fans on their messageboard. Go find Jesus or political correctness or whatever else makes you feel morally superior and stop listening to what offends you. You're no longer a fan. I salute your maturity and responsibility. Just please don't waste anyone's time here trying to convert them. Most of us knew what we were getting when we bought the ticket. The truth is, the bad behavior is a big part of why we love them.

As being a person of unsavory character myself, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating. I will still listen to their music, go to the shows and post here just like you. I have no interest in being morally superior, politically correct, religious, or mature it's just not my vice and I have every right to say it. Furthermore, anyone here that is wholesome and of good morals has the right to express their opinion too. If you don't like it, then you go somewhere else. There you see, I can be a friggin blowhard windbag just like you.

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nick

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Rocky Dijon
While you're rounding up your fellow villagers with their torches so you can storm the castle, kindly remember these are criminals who took lots of illegal drugs and played with guns; have serial addictions to sex, drugs, and alcohol; and (yes) glorified their scandalous behavior as part of their image, in their lyrics, and in their artistic expression from cover art to tour inflatables to video images to advertising.

They are bad people doing what they please. That's the point. That means being unfaithful, sleeping with underage girls, playing with the occult, hanging with dangerous criminals, and behaving like moral degenerates. That's who they are. They don't apologize for being transparent.

If you've suddenly developed a moral compass that says The Rolling Stones are shameful people, don't tell it to fans on their messageboard. Go find Jesus or political correctness or whatever else makes you feel morally superior and stop listening to what offends you. You're no longer a fan. I salute your maturity and responsibility. Just please don't waste anyone's time here trying to convert them. Most of us knew what we were getting when we bought the ticket. The truth is, the bad behavior is a big part of why we love them.

As being a person of unsavory character myself, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating. I will still listen to their music, go to the shows and post here just like you. I have no interest in being morally superior, politically correct, religious, or mature it's just not my vice and I have every right to say it. Furthermore, anyone here that is wholesome and of good morals has the right to express their opinion too. If you don't like it, then you go somewhere else. There you see, I can be a friggin blowhard windbag just like you.

Political correctness has nothing to do with this. And I certainly never signed up for listening to the Stones because they were bad people.
There is a reason there are laws against adults taking advantage of children. In this case, I'd say there was probably no harm done, her being 15 and apparently not having bad feelings or anything and Mick not knowing her true age and all. So far the musicians I listen to have not been exposed for anything (except that unsavoury Jimmy Page incident and -far more seriously- the case of the Trapeze and Judas Priest drummer) but I must admit I dread the day when more like this comes out. Would it mean I stop listening to them? Nope (But boy am I glad I ain't no Michael Jackson fan

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nick
As myself being a person of unsavory character, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating

You miss my point which since I apparently talk endlessly in an inflated fashion saying nothing of value (thank you for that) must be my fault.

Try two other viewpoints: We all know Keith was a junkie. That doesn't mean we're okay with people using heroin. We understood that when we became fans unless we're old enough to have been a fan before 1968. We're not scandalized to hear more junkie stories about him.

We all know about Bill and Mandy. That doesn't mean we're okay with underage sex, but we knew "Stray Cat Blues," "Summer Romance," and "So Young" and didn't imagine they were fantasizing. It was part of their lives.

They're outlaws. We don't hold them to society's standards. Sometimes they came close to being held to it by the Establishment, but most of us are glad they didn't do time and got off with wrist slappings. Some of us point out quite fairly that's the privilege of wealth and is unfair, but we didn't want the band broken up in 1967 any more than we did in 1977 or 1986. Whether we like to admit it or not, we're glad they're outlaws who got away with the crime even if we wouldn't be okay if it was us, our friends, our neighbors, our co-workers doing the same thing. It's the same mentality that made gangsters folk heroes. They transgress what we can't and it appeals to us and we try not to think about the consequences for those who were hurt by their actions.

If that's still being long-winded and devoid of meaning, I can't help you. For what it's worth, while I may have responded to your post immediately before mine, I was directing it to the outrage of many, not one. Yes, it was wrong of Mick. No, we shouldn't be surprised. Yes, it was wrong of Keith with Quincy Jones' underage (according to her) daughter. No, we shouldn't be surprised. And on and on. It's what they do. They had the opportunity, the power, and the notoriety to do what would have been unthinkable had they not been stars. We might tell ourselves we wouldn't have made the same terrible mistakes, but we can't honestly know that not having the same circumstances in which to choose.

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schillid

I love The Carpenters...

I thought Karen had a perfect voice, but her brother was a cheesy hack when it came to harmonies and string arrangements.

Weird Al performing "Close to You" at The Apollo Theater in Harlem was a sublime moment that all should expereince.

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schillid
What about when an entire country gets fucked?

What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.

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nick
If you don't like it, then you go somewhere else. There you see, I can be a friggin blowhard windbag just like you.

I bothered to look and realized you weren't even the person I responded to so your near violent reaction to me is either an intense dislike built up over time reading my long-winded, empty blowhard posts (thank you for reading!) or you thought I said Nick at some point when I didn't. In any event, relax. I'll eventually leave this site. It's already been 23 years. Hang in there!

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Rocky Dijon

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nick
As myself being a person of unsavory character, I was simply expressing that if you need to go to a little girl to get your rocks off then that's your thing and it's not mine. To say I can't express an opinion on it here (and you are) while you can express your opinion defending it is just your typical bloviating

You miss my point which since I apparently talk endlessly in an inflated fashion saying nothing of value (thank you for that) must be my fault.

Try two other viewpoints: We all know Keith was a junkie. That doesn't mean we're okay with people using heroin. We understood that when we became fans unless we're old enough to have been a fan before 1968. We're not scandalized to hear more junkie stories about him.

We all know about Bill and Mandy. That doesn't mean we're okay with underage sex, but we knew "Stray Cat Blues," "Summer Romance," and "So Young" and didn't imagine they were fantasizing. It was part of their lives.

They're outlaws. We don't hold them to society's standards. Sometimes they came close to being held to it by the Establishment, but most of us are glad they didn't do time and got off with wrist slappings. Some of us point out quite fairly that's the privilege of wealth and is unfair, but we didn't want the band broken up in 1967 any more than we did in 1977 or 1986. Whether we like to admit it or not, we're glad they're outlaws who got away with the crime even if we wouldn't be okay if it was us, our friends, our neighbors, our co-workers doing the same thing. It's the same mentality that made gangsters folk heroes. They transgress what we can't and it appeals to us and we try not to think about the consequences for those who were hurt by their actions.

If that's still being long-winded and devoid of meaning, I can't help you. For what it's worth, while I may have responded to your post immediately before mine, I was directing it to the outrage of many, not one. Yes, it was wrong of Mick. No, we shouldn't be surprised. Yes, it was wrong of Keith with Quincy Jones' underage (according to her) daughter. No, we shouldn't be surprised. And on and on. It's what they do. They had the opportunity, the power, and the notoriety to do what would have been unthinkable had they not been stars. We might tell ourselves we wouldn't have made the same terrible mistakes, but we can't honestly know that not having the same circumstances in which to choose.

I strongly disagree with this, Rocky, if I may chime in here.

No, it is not surprising, but no, it is also not something we should appreciate in them, just as gangsters are not folk heroes. The criterium, for me, is about hurting other people. Doing heroin isn't the same as abusing children or murdering people. The 'bad' part of the Stones had everything to do with their rebellious attitude against stupid drug laws, oppressive social standards and conservative bourgeois ways of living in the 50s and 60s, and nothing with hurting people.

I don't think our views are mutually exclusive. I think what we both said is true for a good number of fans, though most would probably prefer to agree with your view than identify with the one I put forward.

And yes, I understand you may very well not agree with me about that!

I also liked your earlier post that ended with the Michael Jackson example. Again, I thought what you said there was true, but didn't cancel out the view I expressed. These things are complex and whether right or wrong, lots of people loved Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, etc. or else they wouldn't have been subjects of folk songs and films that, to a degree, glorified their actions because of the freedom it bought them from society. No one likes to focus on the victims they left behind on the way. Same was true of outlaw heroes in the Old West like Billy the Kid or Jesse James. People are selective about these things. If we weren't too, it would be hard to sing along with the songs.

Chong explained.

“I knew I had the power to pick and choose whatever man I wanted.
I was keen to have every experience I could.”



ROCKMAN

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keefriff99

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mtaylor
Could it affect the tour?
A smart lawyer could convince RDC to sue him and then MJ has committed a crime and could be banned from US.

If so, then just come to Europe for a tour. We are ready.

The statute of limitations has long since expired.

I believe NY State just made permanent a "go back law" for victims to file suit against their predators. It was only for one year and has since been amended.

if a 58 year old woman reflects fondly on a fling in her youth where there is NO victim then why is this even an issue?

Just wrong.
Wrong then, wrong now, wrong under any type of situation.
Mick enjoys using underage girls. It's wrong when he does it, it's wrong when some British royalty or American billionaire does it, it's wrong when some yokel in Arkansas @#$%& his younger cousin.
I was 15 when I started listening to the Stones, but even though I thrilled to their bad boy presentation, I understood irony. I knew what artistic expression was. I got shock value.
I didn't think Mick Jagger was Satan. I knew that Midnight Rambler was cathartic. I knew that Brown Suger was observation and not endorsement.
Anyway, the pirate image is stupid and out of date. Mick and Keith are successful business people. Keith's years of drug addiction were pointless; I think even he got to that point. Mick's behavior was stupid. I'm not saying to prosecute him, I just don't care to let him off the hook because I see the Stones as a street gang.
End of rant.
As Waylon Jennings sang, 'Don't you think this outlaw bits done got out of hand?'

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Ket
if a 58 year old woman reflects fondly on a fling in her youth where there is NO victim then why is this even an issue?

To the point. And, by the way, there are grown up women who are keen on teenage boys.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-04 00:41 by SomeGuy.

what do you mean 'using underage girls'? did you even read the 58 year old woman's reflection? do you think she was a victim? look I'm not saying having sex with an underage person is not wrong but please read HER statement.

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Ket
what do you mean 'using underage girls'? did you even read the 58 year old woman's reflection? do you think she was a victim? look I'm not saying having sex with an underage person is not wrong but please read HER statement.

It's just creepy. Forget that he's Mick Jagger for a minute. It's a creepy thing to do. And a 15-year-old girl really doesn't have the maturity or life experience to make a decision like that, that's why society has these unwritten rules about underage sex. And really we have no idea of what impact it may have had on her or her family.