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I hung out with Recille in 1997 or early 98 in New Orleans... a few months later I was at Jazz Fest and there he was, drumming for Bob Dylan. It was supreme - but he'd've never worked with the Stones.
They would've replaced Charlie. It's just a band. It was a time when they still had in them that they owed. Look at what Angus did. It's just business. The band/brand/business must go on.
It may be different now that they are purely a nostalgia act and much older but the part of "may" implies that they'd still replace him. It's part of why they have the insurance they have. But in 2004 they still had the mindset that they owed the record label a record. It could've just been Mick, Keith and Ronnie making that happen but a tour would've been different.
Interesting to compare this with the Pink Floyd situation.
I assume that fans are/were happy to see Roger less and David less permutations though.
It was later than that, actually, but it was indeed a Keith-interview where Charlie's illness was referred to. Keith said something like «sure, we could», when asked if the Stones could have carried on without Charlie - if they had to.
However, in countless other interviews Keith has stated the opposite. I suspect this was one of the dubious drunken interviews in the late 2000s.
I tried to find the link now, but it seems like it's taken off the internet... I know I read it back then.
No surprise. Co-opted by Alternative IORR including quotes from their regular contributor, Rocky Dijon.
"regular contributor?"
That sounds like I'm a willing participant. I've written professionally. I wouldn't resort to condescending to the barely coherent drivel they publish.
I don't think George even knew Keith then or at least not well. He and Larry Campbell seemed to have started hanging out with Keith at Studio L in Autumn 1999. If I'm remembering right it was with Al Green.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-21 20:14 by Rocky Dijon.
Doubt they care if anyone is willing. They quote you all the time, hence the comment.
Actually its an outright lie, and should be deleted.
From what i read, Dylan is giving a "for instance"
BD: No one comes into my band. I like the drummer I have now, he is one of the best around, but if he ever left me for some reason, like to join The Rolling Stones or something, I’d have to replace him."
Not sure how one interprets that to say they were ready to replace him.
Interesting he did not mention Ronnie. Curious if they would soldier on if anything were to happen to Ronnie.
20 years ago? Possibly. Today? Nope.
I concur with this assessment.
But 15 or so years later is a different time. I think anyone, including Ronnie's exit would be the end now.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: January 21, 2020 01:16
Charlie was and is indispensable, but I could see them carrying on without Ronnie if they had to - then and now.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: January 21, 2020 01:21
Considering their substance abuse they could have replaced the entire band through the years. Jagger might have gotten away with it; he was and still is truly irreplaceable.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: January 21, 2020 04:43
Charlie is great and we all love him, but do you really think they would have just retired without him.
We know that Mick and Keith like to tour. They like the money, like performing, like the fame it gives them. They are not sentimental men, and to be fair, all of us have carried in our lives after getting fired or divorced or other shakeups. 'It goes on' could very well be their motto.
They would have asked Chuck and Darryl to pick a new drummer and continued. Except for us, few people would notice. A year later we'd have stories from Keith saying the new guy had shaken things up and he was a turn-on to play with. They'd send Charlie a Christmas card every year.
Charlie himself would be horrified at the notion they'd stop just because he got sick or didn't feel like going out on the road anymore.
We know that Mick and Keith like to tour. They like the money, like performing, like the fame it gives them. They are not sentimental men, and to be fair, all of us have carried in our lives after getting fired or divorced or other shakeups. 'It goes on' could very well be their motto.
They would have asked Chuck and Darryl to pick a new drummer and continued. Except for us, few people would notice. A year later we'd have stories from Keith saying the new guy had shaken things up and he was a turn-on to play with. They'd send Charlie a Christmas card every year.
Charlie himself would be horrified at the notion they'd stop just because he got sick or didn't feel like going out on the road anymore.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
James Kirk
()
Date: January 21, 2020 04:47
Wasn’t the issue at the time Charlie’s throat cancer?
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
DeadHead4Ever
()
Date: January 21, 2020 06:09
No one is going to quit. At some point it will just end.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 21, 2020 06:58
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
Koen
Source?
bobdylan.com Q&A with Bill Flanagan 3/22/2017
"What does a drummer coming into your band need to know? What should he avoid?
BD: No one comes into my band. I like the drummer I have now, he is one of the best around, but if he ever left me for some reason, like to join The Rolling Stones or something, I’d have to replace him."
I was told George had a clause regarding this during at least some of his years with Dylan. And yes, as Dandie indicates somewhere Keith said something about maybe having to take George back since Bob had him on permanent loan from Keith and had screwed up Keith's sessions in 2000 and 2001 when he was first working on what would eventually become CROSSEYED HEART.
That aside, if Alan Dunn calls it "rubbish," I see no reason to doubt him.
I hung out with Recille in 1997 or early 98 in New Orleans... a few months later I was at Jazz Fest and there he was, drumming for Bob Dylan. It was supreme - but he'd've never worked with the Stones.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 21, 2020 07:13
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Sorry, guys. When I look back on 2004 and see Mick and Keith soldiering on with writing and demoing A BIGGER BANG; I never once think if Charlie didn't pull through they would have told Virgin Records, "I'm sorry we can't deliver an album after all" and they would have told Michael Cohl, "I'm sorry, but the huge world tour you put together is off."
Remember what they did when Ronnie needed rehab before BRIDGES TO BABYLON? They brought in Waddy and cut most of the album without him and then when Ronnie was well enough, they let him replace some of Waddy's parts. Had Ronnie not been tour-ready, do you think they would have changed plans at the eleventh hour? Scrapped the album and world tour?
I think it's nice you believe in sentimentality. You probably believe it was Stu's band to the bitter end and they considered him a Rolling Stone even though there are albums where he played no piano at all. He was a sideman. A friend from the start who worked for them in an important capacity and was allowed to sit in when he and they thought it made sense. Fans respond to Keith's sentimental view of Stu. Look honestly at what he contributed after 1965 and you'll see it's precious little. He was surpassed by Nicky, Billy, Mac, and even Chuck as far as recording and touring.
Ronnie would have been gone if he couldn't cut it. No matter what they may say, I don't believe they would have walked away from A BIGGER BANG album-in-progress and the tour Cohl had packaged for them if Charlie couldn't make it.
Again, it's nice so many of you think so. I'm more cynical.
They would've replaced Charlie. It's just a band. It was a time when they still had in them that they owed. Look at what Angus did. It's just business. The band/brand/business must go on.
It may be different now that they are purely a nostalgia act and much older but the part of "may" implies that they'd still replace him. It's part of why they have the insurance they have. But in 2004 they still had the mindset that they owed the record label a record. It could've just been Mick, Keith and Ronnie making that happen but a tour would've been different.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: January 21, 2020 08:19
Surprised no one has mentioned this, but they replaced Bill, why not Charlie?
plexi
plexi
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: January 21, 2020 09:32
Quote
TornAndFriedQuote
JordyLicks96
Let's put it this way, by 1989 and on if Mick, Keith or Charlie could no longer go on touring, they would have disbanded. No Charlie, no more Stones. This is in 2005 now speaking. Say this was in the 70's, I feel like they would have gotten someone else. Even Mick talked about going on without Keith after his drug bust in '77.
Mick (March 6, 1977):
"Would we tour without Keith if he was in jail for a long time? Yeah, I should say so... Obviously we wouldn't if Keith was only in jail for a month or two months, but if he was in jail for a long period of time, I suppose we'd have to... We can't wait 5 years. In 5 years, we won't be touring at all. Not much anyway, just a few lounges."
Maybe Mick would have done a solo tour in 1978 if Keith was in jail after his drug bust? Who's to say if Charlie, Ronnie and Bill would have even wanted to go on without him and it's possible Keith would have objected to this arrangement as well. And I doubt there would be as much interest from the fans either. I, for one, would have no interest in a Keith-less or Charlie-less "Stones" show.
Interesting to compare this with the Pink Floyd situation.
I assume that fans are/were happy to see Roger less and David less permutations though.
Re: Rumor about replacing Charlie for A BIGGER BANG
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 21, 2020 09:33
Quote
IrixQuote
TornAndFried
Replacing Charlie was never a consideration. Never.
Maybe this rumor came from Charlie's throat cancer, diagnosed in 2004 ?
It was later than that, actually, but it was indeed a Keith-interview where Charlie's illness was referred to. Keith said something like «sure, we could», when asked if the Stones could have carried on without Charlie - if they had to.
However, in countless other interviews Keith has stated the opposite. I suspect this was one of the dubious drunken interviews in the late 2000s.
I tried to find the link now, but it seems like it's taken off the internet... I know I read it back then.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: January 21, 2020 09:40
Charlie was ill and out of action ...
They had an album to do and, more importantly for scores of people, tour commitments.
The inevitable insider and outsider rumour and conjecture at times like that produces all kind of tales that gather steam, whether they have any foundation or not.
I rather suspect that Charlie got the all clear before the question really had to be taken seriously or any decision faced.
Asking what decision might have been made is not the same as knowing what decision they would have made.
They had an album to do and, more importantly for scores of people, tour commitments.
The inevitable insider and outsider rumour and conjecture at times like that produces all kind of tales that gather steam, whether they have any foundation or not.
I rather suspect that Charlie got the all clear before the question really had to be taken seriously or any decision faced.
Asking what decision might have been made is not the same as knowing what decision they would have made.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: January 21, 2020 17:31
Quote
Rocky Dijon
ukcal, can you please re-word the title of the thread? This site is already mined by the conjugal idiots who "write" for X without us flagging stories for them.
No surprise. Co-opted by Alternative IORR including quotes from their regular contributor, Rocky Dijon.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: January 21, 2020 18:06
you cant replace band members and always be the same band. stones have had enough replacements, brian leaving, taylor replacing him then leaving for ronnie to come in but that was only 1 original band member leaving, then bill makes it 2, charlie going would be 3 original members gone, with only 2 left, that to me is not the same band, when charlie goes the stones go,
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: January 21, 2020 18:11
The band has earned about a billion dollars from touring since 2005.
The money keeps Mick and Keith together.
They would have gone on without him. Fortunately, they didn't have to!
The money keeps Mick and Keith together.
They would have gone on without him. Fortunately, they didn't have to!
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: January 21, 2020 18:17
No, they probably wouldn't be together now if not for the money ...
...but I don't think they'd still be together if they didn't still, for the most part, enjoy the work.
...but I don't think they'd still be together if they didn't still, for the most part, enjoy the work.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 21, 2020 19:56
Quote
bye bye johnnyQuote
Rocky Dijon
ukcal, can you please re-word the title of the thread? This site is already mined by the conjugal idiots who "write" for X without us flagging stories for them.
No surprise. Co-opted by Alternative IORR including quotes from their regular contributor, Rocky Dijon.
"regular contributor?"
That sounds like I'm a willing participant. I've written professionally. I wouldn't resort to condescending to the barely coherent drivel they publish.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 21, 2020 19:57
Quote
GasLightStreet
I hung out with Recille in 1997 or early 98 in New Orleans... a few months later I was at Jazz Fest and there he was, drumming for Bob Dylan. It was supreme - but he'd've never worked with the Stones.
I don't think George even knew Keith then or at least not well. He and Larry Campbell seemed to have started hanging out with Keith at Studio L in Autumn 1999. If I'm remembering right it was with Al Green.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-21 20:14 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: January 21, 2020 20:06
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
bye bye johnnyQuote
Rocky Dijon
ukcal, can you please re-word the title of the thread? This site is already mined by the conjugal idiots who "write" for X without us flagging stories for them.
No surprise. Co-opted by Alternative IORR including quotes from their regular contributor, Rocky Dijon.
"regular contributor?"
That sounds like I'm a willing participant. I've written professionally. I wouldn't resort to condescending to the barely coherent drivel they publish.
Doubt they care if anyone is willing. They quote you all the time, hence the comment.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: January 21, 2020 20:10
is this for real? do those alt-right @#$%& really troll this forum for content and then reprint it? I had no idea...unless this is an inside joke?
thanks
jb
thanks
jb
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 21, 2020 20:13
Yeah, I've seen more than enough of their crap.
HEADLINE: YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT MICK JAGGER'S DAUGHTER WAS WEARING! Followed by a recycled scandal-free news item from several years ago featuring one of Mick's girls with the "article" fleshed out with completely off-topic quotes from IORR about the new album.
It reads like the site was prepared by cut-rate AI that performs limited search functions and manufactures click bait with it.
If I could I would take the entire site down or at least issue an injunction against quoting my ramblings here. Sadly, the free-use law is on their side.
HEADLINE: YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT MICK JAGGER'S DAUGHTER WAS WEARING! Followed by a recycled scandal-free news item from several years ago featuring one of Mick's girls with the "article" fleshed out with completely off-topic quotes from IORR about the new album.
It reads like the site was prepared by cut-rate AI that performs limited search functions and manufactures click bait with it.
If I could I would take the entire site down or at least issue an injunction against quoting my ramblings here. Sadly, the free-use law is on their side.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
FlyoverStones
()
Date: January 21, 2020 20:14
This is not really worth discussing. We will never know the timing of Charlie's diagnosis, treatment and prognosis as it related to the band's contracts and activities. Could it be that they knew he would be ok and needed treatment/recovery and they went ahead and cut the album and made the plans with the assumption he would be alright and ready to tour? We'll never know if it was the opposite either.
And what of Ronnie's lung cancer? It was dealt with quickly and the band rolled on. So here we are guessing again.
And what of Ronnie's lung cancer? It was dealt with quickly and the band rolled on. So here we are guessing again.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 21, 2020 20:18
Well we do know Mick and Keith were writing and recording demos with Don Was while Charlie was getting treatment and in recovery.
Whether or not there's any truth to the rest is open to debate. Alan Dunn says no. He has a reputation for being trustworthy. If he gets a question he can't answer or dislikes, he generally walks away from the person or clams up until the conversation changes. His calling the story rubbish is certainly reason to question its veracity.
Whether or not there's any truth to the rest is open to debate. Alan Dunn says no. He has a reputation for being trustworthy. If he gets a question he can't answer or dislikes, he generally walks away from the person or clams up until the conversation changes. His calling the story rubbish is certainly reason to question its veracity.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Topi
()
Date: January 21, 2020 22:41
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: January 22, 2020 16:40
Quote
keefriff99
The title of this thread is highly misleading.
Actually its an outright lie, and should be deleted.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 22, 2020 17:01
An outright lie? It's speculation/gossip that has been denied by a longtime employee and friend of the band.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: January 22, 2020 17:38
Quote
Rocky Dijon
An outright lie? It's speculation/gossip that has been denied by a longtime employee and friend of the band.
From what i read, Dylan is giving a "for instance"
BD: No one comes into my band. I like the drummer I have now, he is one of the best around, but if he ever left me for some reason, like to join The Rolling Stones or something, I’d have to replace him."
Not sure how one interprets that to say they were ready to replace him.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 22, 2020 18:58
Yes, Dylan's giving a for instance. The presumption is since Keith had once said they were prepared to replace Charlie if they had to, but gratefully didn't have to and since the rumor had been that Recile (rather than Jordan or, my own personal guess at the time, Keltner) was the individual contacted in the event it had been necessary, it's easy to think that's why Bob chose the Stones as a for instance.
Alan Dunn calling the story rubbish could be 100% on the money (he is a straight-shooter), it could be what he only believes to be true, or it could be a response to stop speculation on an unpleasant incident (Charlie's serious illness) 15 years ago.
In any event, the only problem is the thread title stating speculation/gossip as fact. A simple change to WERE MICK AND KEITH READY TO...? would suffice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-22 21:03 by Rocky Dijon.
Alan Dunn calling the story rubbish could be 100% on the money (he is a straight-shooter), it could be what he only believes to be true, or it could be a response to stop speculation on an unpleasant incident (Charlie's serious illness) 15 years ago.
In any event, the only problem is the thread title stating speculation/gossip as fact. A simple change to WERE MICK AND KEITH READY TO...? would suffice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-22 21:03 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
oldschool
()
Date: January 22, 2020 19:10
Quote
EddieByword
I saw an interview with Keith - a few years ago - he said, if anything ever happened to him, Mick or Charlie, that would be it - over...............
Interesting he did not mention Ronnie. Curious if they would soldier on if anything were to happen to Ronnie.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
TornAndFried
()
Date: January 22, 2020 19:18
Quote
oldschoolQuote
EddieByword
I saw an interview with Keith - a few years ago - he said, if anything ever happened to him, Mick or Charlie, that would be it - over...............
Interesting he did not mention Ronnie. Curious if they would soldier on if anything were to happen to Ronnie.
20 years ago? Possibly. Today? Nope.
Re: Mick n Keith were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG tour
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 22, 2020 22:16
Quote
keefriff99I tend to agree with this assessment. It's not cynical...it's just common sense based on what we know about the Stones an organization.Quote
Rocky Dijon
Sorry, guys. When I look back on 2004 and see Mick and Keith soldiering on with writing and demoing A BIGGER BANG; I never once think if Charlie didn't pull through they would have told Virgin Records, "I'm sorry we can't deliver an album after all" and they would have told Michael Cohl, "I'm sorry, but the huge world tour you put together is off."
Remember what they did when Ronnie needed rehab before BRIDGES TO BABYLON? They brought in Waddy and cut most of the album without him and then when Ronnie was well enough, they let him replace some of Waddy's parts. Had Ronnie not been tour-ready, do you think they would have changed plans at the eleventh hour? Scrapped the album and world tour?
I think it's nice you believe in sentimentality. You probably believe it was Stu's band to the bitter end and they considered him a Rolling Stone even though there are albums where he played no piano at all. He was a sideman. A friend from the start who worked for them in an important capacity and was allowed to sit in when he and they thought it made sense. Fans respond to Keith's sentimental view of Stu. Look honestly at what he contributed after 1965 and you'll see it's precious little. He was surpassed by Nicky, Billy, Mac, and even Chuck as far as recording and touring.
Ronnie would have been gone if he couldn't cut it. No matter what they may say, I don't believe they would have walked away from A BIGGER BANG album-in-progress and the tour Cohl had packaged for them if Charlie couldn't make it.
Again, it's nice so many of you think so. I'm more cynical.
I concur with this assessment.
But 15 or so years later is a different time. I think anyone, including Ronnie's exit would be the end now.
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