Allegedly, the Stones fought hard to keep Wyman, but the Taylor case seems to have been closed in a matter of minutes...
Seniority matters?
Of course, Wyman was a founding member, and in the band for 32 years in 1994 (or 29 years in 1991 depends what moment one picks for his resignation).
Taylor was a member for five years and half, but almost did'nt stop playing during his stint.
So the difference of treatment was huge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-19 20:09 by The Joker.

No that's not true - If I remember correctly Mick Jagger called MT after a few months to reconsider?

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OpenG
No that's not true - If I remember correctly Mick Jagger called MT after a few months to reconsider?

I don't believe Keith wanted Taylor to reconsider.

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TheflyingDutchman

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OpenG
No that's not true - If I remember correctly Mick Jagger called MT after a few months to reconsider?

I don't believe Keith wanted Taylor to reconsider.

Keith was the only one in the band who sent Taylor a card, saying he was sorry he quit and thanked him for all the turn-ons. According to Rose it made Taylor cry.

Okay then Jagger called MT about helping out in a potential tour when Keith got busted on his Toronto heroin bust. I believe this happened privately and behind the scenes?

I don’t think anybody wanted Taylor or Wyman to quit. Jagger bitterly internalized it, but it came out a little bit “we can just get another tall blonde guitarist”. Richards too “a guitarist should play more than the top three strings”. I don’t know the comments about Wyman off hand. It definitely hurt their pride, but they’re “too proud to beg”.

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TravelinMan

Richards too “a guitarist should play more than the top three strings”.

Auch, Keith was quite pissed when Taylor left just like that, so I forgive Mr Richards for making this bold statement...

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TravelinMan
I don’t think anybody wanted Taylor or Wyman to quit. Jagger bitterly internalized it, but it came out a little bit “we can just get another tall blonde guitarist”. Richards too “a guitarist should play more than the top three strings”. I don’t know the comments about Wyman off hand. It definitely hurt their pride, but they’re “too proud to beg”.

But they weren't too proud to beg, if Mick called Taylor?

They also met up with Bill and tried to persuade him.

So they tried to make both stay/get them back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-19 21:10 by DandelionPowderman.

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The Joker
Allegedly, the Stones fought hard to keep Wyman, but the Taylor case seems to have been closed in a matter of minutes...
Seniority matters?
Of course, Wyman was a founding member, and in the band for 32 years in 1994 (or 29 years in 1991 depends what moment one picks for his resignation).
Taylor was a member for five years and half, but almost did'nt stop playing during his stint.
So the difference of treatment was huge.

I was just thinking this. Weird - your guitarist just quit and no one even asks him to reconsider? Jagger calls him MONTHS later. Did no one give a shit? The old Stones arrogance kicking in? "We can get someone else". Ancient history now but you've just had the best run of albums and live shows in your career and you let your powerhouse lead guitarist go?

<and no one even asks him to reconsider?>

How do you know that?

The Stones of 1994 were not the Stones of 1974. If someone were to quit today, it wouldn't work anymore at all

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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OpenG
No that's not true - If I remember correctly Mick Jagger called MT after a few months to reconsider?

I don't believe Keith wanted Taylor to reconsider.

Keith was the only one in the band who sent Taylor a card, saying he was sorry he quit and thanked him for all the turn-ons. According to Rose it made Taylor cry.

That's true, and clearly a farewell-card from Keith. The fact that Rose Millar stated this and Taylor cried, and even she (Rose) couldn't persuade Taylor to stay in the Stones, all this is a clear indication of Taylor's confused state of mind at the time.

I had a book once that chronicled the Stones years ,which had a quote from a magazine in 1975 ,that after the CarlaBley band broke up ,Taylor was heading to LA for the 1975shows.I also read a quote attributed to Bill Wyman that Taylor contacted the Stones a year later about rejoining the band but was turned down.

I consider 1991 Bills official exile (see what I did there.....)...

He was in the Stones for 29 years and it has been 29 since he left. If you would have told me the Stones were not even half way through this journey at that point I would have never believed it.

I still miss Having Bill in the band.

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TravelinMan

Richards too “a guitarist should play more than the top three strings”.

That was a nasty one



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-19 23:28 by The Joker.

What they say publicly (Jagger and his "I'm sure we'll find another dazzling six foot, good looking blond guitarist" or Keith with his remarks about Taylor being great in the studio, but just noodling in concert) is at contrast with how they act with the individual in private. Same happened with Bill after he finally made good on his threats to leave.

As far as Taylor goes, he stayed in their orbit until SOME GIRLS whether as insurance for Keith or not. When The Glimmers produced an album for John Phillips following the 1976 European tour, Taylor was right there in the studio playing alongside them.

Some of the passive-aggressive behavior is their personality and some of it is because the band is a business and they don't view it the way fans do. They were ready to replace Charlie if need be for A BIGGER BANG album and tour. Dylan mentioned at the time that his longtime drummer George Recile might have to tour with The Stones.

Ronnie has hung by a thread countless times due to his battles with sobriety since 1981. As recently as 2008 when he hit rock bottom, Ronnie was in a position of cleaning up or being replaced. Ronnie's health, Patti's health, Keith's health, issues with Michael Cohl, and Mick and Keith's fractured relationship may have combined to keep them off the road, but Ronnie has spoken about Mick calling him up to check on him regularly and Mick arranging for Steve Bing to finance sessions for Ronnie's last solo album. You can view that as compassion or you can look at as keeping a pulse on what needs to be done if the band was going to return to the road. They passed up offers for small scale tours in both 2008 and 2010. Had they taken them, Ronnie may have likewise found himself out of the band.

Maybe they just were a little bit wiser and could analyze the consequences better in their 50's than in their 30's...

ROLLING STONE magazine -- January 1975



ROCKMAN

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Nikkei
The Stones of 1994 were not the Stones of 1974. If someone were to quit today, it wouldn't work anymore at all

It hasn't really worked since 1991. It's not the same level as the group before it. It's an oldies group, with precious little new studio creativity. They simply can't create the kinds of melodies since that time.

I think with Bill, he is an original member. (Of the five the world thought of as the Rolling Stones). Him, Charlie and Keith were the integral part of the instrumental sound of the group. They simply plugged in a new guitarist after Brian, and after Mick Taylor. Bass players on Bill's level are rarer if maybe because there aren't that many who want to play the instrument to begin with, compared to hotshot guitarists.

I think Taylor's contribution was getting suspect. It seems heroin was getting to him, and wasn't giving as much in the studio. The last thing the Stones needed to encourage was another guitarist who couldn't function because of their drug problem. Maybe Keith was looking forward to playing with Ronnie. It didn't seem to matter much, as they shifted to a funkier sound.

The Rolling Stones lost a lot when they lost Bill Wyman. He was one of the foundation stones they all depended on. Those were his bass notes. He was part of the stage personality, the anti-personality actually. And from what I have heard, he smoked weed non-stop, like any good bass player should.

jb

from what he wrote, he (unknowingly) had a brownie on his birthday and was so deranged that he never did it again

>from what he wrote, he (unknowingly) had a brownie on his birthday
>and was so deranged that he never did it again

If you mean Bill Wyman, that's pretty much the exact opposite that I have heard all down the years. Now eating a "brownie" is much different than smoking weed so maybe that explains the discrepancy.

jb

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24FPS

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Nikkei
The Stones of 1994 were not the Stones of 1974. If someone were to quit today, it wouldn't work anymore at all

It hasn't really worked since 1991. It's not the same level as the group before it...

If you're dismissing songs after '91, then you have to go back further ... It wasn't working with Bill either anymore, as the 2 previous albums were clearly their worst ones - Dirty Work by a landslide, and more debatable with Steel Wheels (which i'd put as 2nd worst).

** edit ... oh, and to the point of the thread, nothing to it, just the Joker stirring up trouble where there is none.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-20 08:09 by LeonidP.

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LeonidP

** edit ... oh, and to the point of the thread, nothing to it, just the Joker stirring up trouble where there is none.

Ha Ha
Not true.
Ronnie Wood, Mick Jagger and maybe Mick Taylor himself reported that Taylor said he was leaving when all three were in a party. And it was done in a matter of minutes..
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-20 19:04 by The Joker.

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The Joker

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LeonidP

** edit ... oh, and to the point of the thread, nothing to it, just the Joker stirring up trouble where there is none.

Ha Ha
Not true.
Ronnie Wood, Mick Jagger and maybe Mick Taylor himself reported that Taylor said he was leaving when all three were in a party. And it was done in a matter of minutes..
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

I was referring to you making an issue over a non-issue.

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LeonidP

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24FPS

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Nikkei
The Stones of 1994 were not the Stones of 1974. If someone were to quit today, it wouldn't work anymore at all

It hasn't really worked since 1991. It's not the same level as the group before it...

If you're dismissing songs after '91, then you have to go back further ... It wasn't working with Bill either anymore, as the 2 previous albums were clearly their worst ones - Dirty Work by a landslide, and more debatable with Steel Wheels (which i'd put as 2nd worst).

** edit ... oh, and to the point of the thread, nothing to it, just the Joker stirring up trouble where there is none.

Steel Wheels and Dirty Work should not be mentioned in the same sentence as equals. Dirty Work was a mess, with a coherent song or two. (One Hit and Harlem Shuffle). Steel Wheels was their best album since Some Girls. (Remember, Tattoo You was from different eras). I give Steel Wheels a solid BPlus. It didn't have a strong single, but overall it's wonderful. And Bill's bass playing on it is superb. Blinded By Love and Slipping Away really glow with Bill's underpinning them emotionally.

Posted in error ...half asleep



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-21 10:58 by Spud.

As I understand it, the Stones weren't all that unhappy about Taylor leaving but they were mad at him for his timing -right before they would announce the Tour of the America's starting in May 1975.

Taylor wasn't the most likeable or easy to work with person in 1973 and 1974. He was addicted, unhappy, moody, depressed, and constantly expressing his unhappiness with the way things worked with the band, which in the end simply is Mick's and Keith's band.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
As I understand it, the Stones weren't all that unhappy about Taylor leaving but they were mad at him for his timing -right before they would announce the Tour of the America's starting in May 1975.

Taylor wasn't the most likeable or easy to work with person in 1973 and 1974. He was addicted, unhappy, moody, depressed, and constantly expressing his unhappiness with the way things worked with the band, which in the end simply is Mick's and Keith's band.

Mathijs

So he 'transferred' to Jack Bruce!
Unbelievable really, in hindsight.

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jbwelda
The Rolling Stones lost a lot when they lost Bill Wyman. He was one of the foundation stones they all depended on. Those were his bass notes. He was part of the stage personality, the anti-personality actually. And from what I have heard, he smoked weed non-stop, like any good bass player should.

jb

I thought Bill was the straight one in the band.

Now I certainly don't consider weed much of a vice and couldn't care less if he had, but it doesn't jibe with what I've heard about Bill over the years.