If we're going with boxing metaphors, Undercover by knockout in round 1, about 45 seconds in.

Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

Just when you thought it was over Undercover fans, haha. VoodooLounge13 hit some serious notes in my opinion. It was a new day and I believe they felt they must change, no more classic Stones the way we knew them. Alas, Steel Wheels or maybe they would have become a washed up oldies band repeating themselves? All of this is debatable. Regardless, I'm happy with the outcome.

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frankotero
Just when you thought it was over Undercover fans, haha. VoodooLounge13 hit some serious notes in my opinion. It was a new day and I believe they felt they must change, no more classic Stones the way we knew them. Alas, Steel Wheels or maybe they would have become a washed up oldies band repeating themselves? All of this is debatable. Regardless, I'm happy with the outcome.

im thoroughly cornfused now -- are they a washed up oldies band repeating themselves or aren't they?

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VoodooLounge13
Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciated the effort...but you totally lost me here:

Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it

I could understand that it may be one of your favourites, but with a catalogue as strong as the Stones this would have difficulty cracking the top 50, and I may be too generous with that.

Guilty pleasures aside, Continental Drift is the only essential track from Steel Wheels, truly standout. I like a lot of the stuff on the album, it's just not marquee stuff and some of it is weak.

I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

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treaclefingers

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VoodooLounge13
Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciated the effort...but you totally lost me here:

Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it

I could understand that it may be one of your favourites, but with a catalogue as strong as the Stones this would have difficulty cracking the top 50, and I may be too generous with that.

Guilty pleasures aside, Continental Drift is the only essential track from Steel Wheels, truly standout. I like a lot of the stuff on the album, it's just not marquee stuff and some of it is weak.

All in musical preferences, my dear sir. I have never made a Stones compilation album that didn't include that one. It's Ruby Tuesday's not too distant cousin. BTW - Ruby is my all time favorite Stones' song, so perhaps I have a particular bent toward AHYS. But I'm also the only one on here who doesn't think Rambler is the QUINTESSENTIAL Stones song either. Highly overrated actually.

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peoplewitheyes
I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

Complex in the performance of it with the constant tempo changes. That's what I'd meant.

That's funny, I consider Almost Hear You Sigh one of the best latter day Stones songs, myself. By far the best track on Steel Wheels. Also, amazing to find that I'm not the only one who doesn't really like Midnight Rambler, for me by far the weakest song on Let It Bleed (sort of: they needed another Sympathy For The Devil-like track for the album). Especially the live versions are sort of boring (and I'm a definite Mick Taylor fan!).
But I'm sure no one else would agree and that's ok too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-28 00:58 by SomeGuy.

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VoodooLounge13

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peoplewitheyes
I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

Complex in the performance of it with the constant tempo changes. That's what I'd meant.

Are we talking about "Mixed Emotions"? THE 'Mixed Emotions" off of "Steel Wheels'? "Creasing your butt' emotions? One of the most straight away songs they ever did?

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Palace Revolution 2000

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VoodooLounge13

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peoplewitheyes
I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

Complex in the performance of it with the constant tempo changes. That's what I'd meant.

Are we talking about "Mixed Emotions"? THE 'Mixed Emotions" off of "Steel Wheels'? "Creasing your butt' emotions? One of the most straight away songs they ever did?

Maybe I somehow understand this. Mixed Emotions is so much of, well, nothing, really, try playing it on guitar and there is just nothing remotely resembling a song or chord structure or anything as it were. Yet it IS a song, recognizable even. They must have been doing something well somehow. I heard two or three live versions, however, and they sounded like nothing.

I still enjoy hearing Mixed Emotions every time I play it. Would I compare this album to Sticky Fingers? No, but I'm sure there's somebody that would. I still think back to what my art teacher told me "the best art is the simplest". Also debatable I suppose.

I would like to share another thought/opinion. At this point I think they're an oldies band. It's been too long since ABB and I don't count Blue and Lonesome. As great as it is I feel it would have been complimentary as a bonus disc in a new album or boxset. That way it would give reason to their sound, through the roots. It's easy to have after thoughts of course but this would have been amazing I believe. Thinking again on the importance of Steel Wheels I remember being over joyed they were back. Just as John Lennon did with Double Fantasy, a slightly new and fresh approach but it was the same guys you always loved. I still feel this when I hear these 2 records. So yeah, Steel Wheels may not be the hardest hitting classic but it holds more water than Undercover to me.

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VoodooLounge13

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treaclefingers

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VoodooLounge13
Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciated the effort...but you totally lost me here:

Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it

I could understand that it may be one of your favourites, but with a catalogue as strong as the Stones this would have difficulty cracking the top 50, and I may be too generous with that.

Guilty pleasures aside, Continental Drift is the only essential track from Steel Wheels, truly standout. I like a lot of the stuff on the album, it's just not marquee stuff and some of it is weak.

All in musical preferences, my dear sir. I have never made a Stones compilation album that didn't include that one. It's Ruby Tuesday's not too distant cousin. BTW - Ruby is my all time favorite Stones' song, so perhaps I have a particular bent toward AHYS. But I'm also the only one on here who doesn't think Rambler is the QUINTESSENTIAL Stones song either. Highly overrated actually.

Almost Hear You Sigh stands out among the mediocre to bad songs on Steel Wheels. It's the closest thing to a keeper on that album. But, when considered alongside the rest of the catalog, it's too much of a Beast of Burden rewrite.

I can't fathom how Too Tough, All The Way Down and It Must Be Hell sound "Duran Duran"...

Somehow I feel compelled to dig even deeper to explain myself. Anyhow, I always like DandelionPowdermans posts and opinions. Basically I would agree Undercover is stronger. However, and I think it's the same for a lot of people that sometimes we factor in what was going on in our lives and how a record or maybe just a song affects us. In my case I was living in Madrid (which turned out to be my favorite place) when SW came out. Plus I thought they were finished, then out of the blue there's the CD on the rack. You have to think back then we didn't have the internet and nobody was talking about The Stones around me in those days. On first play I was in love all over again, I could hear the excitement in the songs, just unbelievable. Finally there was a little promotion on the radio, as I drove my visiting parents around Toledo Blinded By Love came on and I lost my mind. We pulled over at the famous spot overlooking the city and my Mother said "wow you still like The Stones". Duh, come on you know, haha. Anyhow, compared to the release of Undercover (which I do like, but it didn't strike me in the same way) SW and the Urban Jungle Tour brought me into heavy fandom. From then on it's been full blown Stones, this coming from a Beatles fan. My first love as a kid, long before The Stones came into the picture. Also, they did play Blinded By Love in Madrid as you may know. Always loved that song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-28 18:45 by frankotero.

Frankotero, context is, indeed, so much. SW in a sultry Madrid in '89 must have been amazing.

Ok, let´s compare:

UNDERCOVER
1. undercover 10/10 (best one-chord-song ever)
2. She was hot 9/10
3. Tie you up 6/10
4. Wanna hold you 4/10 (live Versions are stronger)
5. Feel on baby 4/10
6. Too much blood 9/10
7. Pretty beat up 3/10 (I like the Woody-live-version)
8. Too tough 3/10
9 All the way down 3/10
10. It must be hell 5/10 (nice but Rip off...)

summary: 3 killer-tracks, rest fillers...

STEEL WHEELS
1. Sad sad sad 9/10
2. Mixed emotions 8/10
3. Terrifying 8/10
4. Hold on to.. 7/10 (the outtake would be 9/10)
5. Hearts for sale 7/10
6. Blinded by love 6/10
7. Rock and a hard place 8/10
8. Can´t be seen 7/10
9. Almost hear you sigh 8/10
10. Continental drift 7/10
11. Break the spell 7/10
12 slipping away 9/10

summary: Two songs more than Undercover, not one filler, six great songs, rest quite good.

--> STEEL WHEELS IS THE CLEAR WINNER



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-31 19:15 by deardoctor.

nice one deardoctor.

I use deardoctor's set up. For instance the following:

UNDERCOVER
1. Undercover 10*/10 (reads as 10 plus one star)
2. She was hot 10/10
3. Tie you up 10/10
4. Wanna hold you 7,5/10
5. Feel on baby 8,5/10
6. Too much blood 9/10
7. Pretty beat up 8,5/10
8. Too tough 8,5/10
9 All the way down 8,5/10
10. It must be hell 8,5/10

STEEL WHEELS
1. Sad sad sad 6,5/10
2. Mixed emotions 6/10
3. Terrifying 7,5/10
4. Hold on to your hat 2/10
5. Hearts for sale 5,5/10
6. Blinded by love 6/10
7. Rock and a hard place 3/10
8. Can´t be seen 4,5/10
9. Almost hear you sigh 6/10
10. Continental drift 10**/10 (reads as 10 plus two stars)
11. Break the spell 7/10
12 slipping away 5,5/10



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-01 02:44 by Witness.

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treaclefingers

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VoodooLounge13
Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciated the effort...but you totally lost me here:

Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it

I could understand that it may be one of your favourites, but with a catalogue as strong as the Stones this would have difficulty cracking the top 50, and I may be too generous with that.

Guilty pleasures aside, Continental Drift is the only essential track from Steel Wheels, truly standout. I like a lot of the stuff on the album, it's just not marquee stuff and some of it is weak.

VoodooLounge13 is just repeating things that have been said by Mick or whoever about Mixed Emotions being "difficult to play live", which is bullshit - they played it at every show in 1989 and 1990. Nothing complex about it.

Can't Be Seen is awful bad. How that got included on the LP is fuddling.

Almost Hear You Sigh, at the time, was astounding, but there are better, even post-STEEL WHEELS.

Continental Drift only gets mentioned because of the non-Stones part. The rest of the song is just a crap Jagger solo song.

UNDERCOVER is a meaty album, with no by-numbers songs like STEEL WHEELS.

Some people just can't hear things like that.

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VoodooLounge13

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peoplewitheyes
I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

Complex in the performance of it with the constant tempo changes. That's what I'd meant.

There aren't any tempo changes unlike... Midnight Rambler.

UNDERCOVER
1. Undercover Of The Night 8
2. She Was Hot 9
3. Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love) 10
4. Wanna Hold You 5
5. Feel On Baby 9
6. Too Much Blood 8
7. Pretty Beat Up 8
8. Too Tough 6
9 All The Way Down 9
10. It Must Be Hell 6


STEEL WHEELS
1. Sad Sad Sad 8
2. Mixed Emotions 8
3. Terrifying 6
4. Hold On To Your Hat 1
5. Hearts For Sale 7
6. Blinded By Love 6
7. Rock And A Hard Place 0
8. Can´t Be Seen 1
9. Almost Hear You Sigh 9
10. Continental Drift 1
11. Break The Spell 9
12. Slipping Away 10

UNDERCOVER is entirely listenable and has much better songwriting and production.

STEEL WHEELS is weak, and in ranking the songs like this, much weaker than I originally thought - and I actually like the album. I gave Can't Be Seen a 1 because it has a good bridge. Otherwise it should be a 0 and not even on the LP. Continental Drift was a great opener for the shows - but the Stones part of the song sucks.


UNDERCOVER by an EXILE mile.

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers

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VoodooLounge13
Well, I guess I'm going to go it alone here with my opinion, because, to me, Undercover is the 2nd weakest album in their entire catalog, behind only TSMR. It's the album I listen to the least out of all of them. I do like Pretty Beat Up, Tie You Up, She Was Hot, and Wanna Hold You, but for me the album stops there. All the rest sounds like bland 80's Duran Duran type stuff, and I loathe that early 80's sound. Dirty Work is the far superior album to this one, with its raw, mostly negative energy, and it worked. Steel Wheels came out when I first discovered the band without knowing that I had grown up with a bunch of their songs already (I was 13 at the time of its release). I think it's aged well, and shows the band in one fluid motion - not at all by the numbers. Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it. It is absolutely beautiful, and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear this live!!!! Slipping Away and Can't Be Seen are two of Keef's very best efforts, too, I think. Continental Drift was very experimental for them at the time, I thought, and it works quite well. Same with Terrifying and Break the Spell - I thought both of these were very different sounding than other Stones' pieces. Mixed Emotions is a rather complex song - so much so that they hardly play it live, despite it being their last big hit. Sad Sad Sad was a great opener choice. Hold On To Your Hat is a quick little Jagger rant, and I've always liked his vocal on Blinded By Love. Plus it's the last album to feature the full 5-member band.

For me, Steel Wheels rolls over Undercover alllll the way thru the Urban Jungle...

I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciated the effort...but you totally lost me here:

Almost Hear You Sigh is one of the Top TEN best songs that the band has ever produced! I might even slot it into the Top FIVE when I really truly sat down to think about it

I could understand that it may be one of your favourites, but with a catalogue as strong as the Stones this would have difficulty cracking the top 50, and I may be too generous with that.

Guilty pleasures aside, Continental Drift is the only essential track from Steel Wheels, truly standout. I like a lot of the stuff on the album, it's just not marquee stuff and some of it is weak.

VoodooLounge13 is just repeating things that have been said by Mick or whoever about Mixed Emotions being "difficult to play live", which is bullshit - they played it at every show in 1989 and 1990. Nothing complex about it.

Can't Be Seen is awful bad. How that got included on the LP is fuddling.

Almost Hear You Sigh, at the time, was astounding, but there are better, even post-STEEL WHEELS.

Continental Drift only gets mentioned because of the non-Stones part. The rest of the song is just a crap Jagger solo song.

UNDERCOVER is a meaty album, with no by-numbers songs like STEEL WHEELS.

Some people just can't hear things like that.

I can see why Jagger calls ME difficult to play live. The chorus works as a studio recording; but musically the chord change is subtle, and melodic. Too subtle for rah rah stadiums; and lyrically it does not have crowd sing-along written all over it.
vocally it treads the same line as "Rocks Off": really good melody, but in the lower register; so hard to project.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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VoodooLounge13

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peoplewitheyes
I'm not sure how Mixed Emotions could ever be described as a 'rather complex song' ... It is pretty one-dimensional and rather pedestrian to these ears.

Complex in the performance of it with the constant tempo changes. That's what I'd meant.

Are we talking about "Mixed Emotions"? THE 'Mixed Emotions" off of "Steel Wheels'? "Creasing your butt' emotions? One of the most straight away songs they ever did?

I think Mixed Emotions is one of their best songs ever, there is more going on with the guitar rythm than meets the ear. I recommend listening to it very loud. Always.

Undercover for me but not by a lot. I think Undercover marked the end of the Stones as a working relevant band. they are trying new sounds mixed with the traditional Stones sound. Steel Wheels is fairly good but has some lousy songs thrown in and is too slickly produced. Mixed Emotions and Almost Hear You Sigh are classic though.