Starting a new thread idea, (unless it's been done already on here), called "Boxing (Albums Edition)" where I put two albums in the ring and we can debate on which one is better and give reasons to support our claims. Gonna try to do this once a week.

For the first fight, I'm throwing UNDERCOVER and STEEL WHEELS in the ring. Which album is superior and why?

undercover because it's better

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treaclefingers
undercover because it's better

Well If you want to split hairs then OK, I guess...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 21:32 by ryanpow.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 21:31 by ryanpow.

I prefer the cover artwork on Undercover. I think the Steel Wheels album art is awful.

Undercover cos they are trying. Steel Wheels was just tour enabling product.

"Undercover" wins for me, but perhaps not by as large a margin as it might be for many people.

On "Undercover" it seems they were pushing things a little bit more. Both albums feature attempts (successful attempts I'd argue) at new sounds and styles, but on Undercover they were just a little bit more creative and playful. Of course, they were younger too.

That said, my two favorite latter day Stones ballads, "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "Slipping Away" come from Steel Wheels. The only true dud on Steel Wheels for me is "Break The Spell", and even that one is ok. On "Undercover" it's pretty solid until the last two, "All The Way Down" and "It Must Be Hell", and even those aren't truly terrible.....the way many things are on "Dirty Work", for example.

So, "Undercover" wins by a hair for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-24 00:17 by floodonthepage.

Steel Wheels for me.

Reason. More bangers. heres a list of grade A songs from both.

Undercover 4 :
Undercover Of The Night
Wanna Hold You
Too Much Blood
All The Way Down

Steel Wheels 6:
Mixed Emotions
Terrifying
Rock And A Hard Place
Cant Be Seen
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away

Undercover, absolutely

When Steel Wheels came out I thought it was better than Under Cover, but these days I'm not so sure anymore. I guess I tend to like the latter more now. Both albums, however, suffer from the number of bad or insignificant songs.

Highlights for me:

Under Cover:
Undercover Of The Night
She Was Hot
Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
Pretty Beat Up
It Must Be Hell

Steel Wheels:
Mixed Emotions
Rock And A Hard Place
Continental Drift
Almost Hear You Sigh
Break The Spell

The Under Cover cover is horribly juvenile, Steel Wheels at least has some artistic design to it.

Are Rock And A Hard Place and Can't Be Seen really superior to She Was Hot and Tie You Up?

Not for me. I like both albums, but prefer Undercover for better songs, sound and production.

Both albums have good, experimental songs, though. Feel On Baby is wonderful. Continental Drift, too.

…. leanin' more towards Undercover ….

Title track is so good 12" is a monster
just like the banned vid ..… Tie You Up
dirty lil thing it is LD …. She was Hot...
Feel On such a groove 12"is even better …
Too Much wish they did more like it ...best
Stones aerobics song …. then couple of tuff lil rockers...

Steel …. that DDD production is top endy …. steel indeed
Finely crafted … but needs more thump … Break The Spell
cool hidden blues-rocker … All Most Hear is beautiful
Slipping Away such a heart soaker …. some of those recent
years live version are just emotional heart wreckers ……
Always makes one float thru the chapters of one's own life …. beautiful Keith

Oh yeah and the unreleased studio version Slipping Away
clocks in at around a minute longer and that fade out could
bleed all the badness from a sinning girls heart …. … ... ….



ROCKMAN

A completely uneven match of albums!

To me UNDERCOVER is the Stones latest great album and, besides, is the final album of the last peak period of their studio career. In some way a peak period even with a certain continuity through its albums. .

STEEL WHEELS, again to me, simply does not belong to their great albums, but instead with the preceding and the following album constitutes a comparative slump in their career. STEEL WHEELS nonetheless includes one song (or piece of music) that is one of the all time career greats by the Rolling Stones. It is obviously "Continental Drift".

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Witness
A completely uneven match of albums!

To me UNDERCOVER is the Stones latest great album and, besides, is the final album of the last peak period of their studio career. In some way a peak period even with a certain continuity through its albums. .

STEEL WHEELS, again to me, simply does not belong to their great albums, but instead with the preceding and the following album constitutes a comparative slump in their career. STEEL WHEELS nonetheless includes one song (or piece of music) that is one of the all time career greats by the Rolling Stones. It is obviously "Continental Drift".

well stated.

Yes, UC is the last 'real' Stones album for me too. Although it was behind that album that the finger pointing, and blame -game began. This had never, happened before in the Stones camp. Where their internal strife was aired in the open, the press.
Maybe it was the non-touring behind it , and the ennui that made Keith start calling out Jagger. It was also right around then (I think) that the news of Jagger's solo deal trickled out.
But it FEELS like a unified Stones album. The songs are fleshed out by a band. There is a red thread in the overall tone of the lyrics too. And in the presence of Sly and Robbie.
Another thing we rarely mention re UC - Jagger sings great through out the entire record.

Steel Wheels - the lyrics try too hard. "Terrifying" is a good bopper, but those lyrics...Barring RAAHP, Side 2 is actually very good.
Rockman said it: "Needs more thump". That is SW in a nutshell.

UNDERCOVER over STEEL WHEELS by an EXILE ON MAIN STREET canyon.

With U, they weren't yer daddy's or grampa's Rolling Stones - they were truly different, invigorated, creative, they challenged themselves and the fans. It was absolutely new.

With SW is was Stones by the numbers 'We're back' blandness... with some highlights.

I agree w/ Gaslight. Undercover by a miiiile. Undercover is the last truly great album by The Rolling Stones, imho. This is the band at their most mature and intelligent as artists. I still love listening to this album, and I bought it the day it was released, when I was 11. SW, otoh, was an album written and recorded for the stadium. It’s not nearly as awful as Dirty Work, but it’s over-reverbed and while I like Sad, Sad, Sad and Slipping Away, I just don’t ever yearn to hear anything off that album. I listen to it for nostalgia, but not much for pure pleasure. Undercover, I listen to and love. It’s among my top five, whereas SW is in my bottom three I’d say (along with DW and ABB ).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-24 05:18 by Tate.

Neither one is top-shelf Stones, but at least Undercover doesn't sound neutered.

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Witness
A completely uneven match of albums!

To me UNDERCOVER is the Stones latest great album and, besides, is the final album of the last peak period of their studio career. In some way a peak period even with a certain continuity through its albums. .

STEEL WHEELS, again to me, simply does not belong to their great albums, but instead with the preceding and the following album constitutes a comparative slump in their career. STEEL WHEELS nonetheless includes one song (or piece of music) that is one of the all time career greats by the Rolling Stones. It is obviously "Continental Drift".

Agree 100 percent Continental Drift is one of those hidden gems.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-24 11:35 by Stonesfan62.

Have to go with Wheels even though the production is too glossy. Undercover to me( yes I do think Dirty Work is better than Undercover and I know I’m in the minority on that debate) is their weakest studio album. Title tack on UC is ok, she was hot is fun, keith’s wanna hold you is good, Pretty beat up is fun. Favorite track is ALL THE WAY DOWN. The rest is all b-sides to me.


Wheels has three great songs with Continental Drift, Break the Spell,and Slipping Away. Always liked Mixed emotions, sad sad sad, terrifying, and Hold on to your hat is good ole fun. The rest including Almost hear you sigh doesn’t move me that much
Both albums are sub-par but my vote easily goes to wheels

I enjoy Undercover, can't recall the last time I put on Steel Wheels, must be 20 years ago, although I 'loved' it when it came out. It's just not nasty enough. I don't feel the guitars on SW; don't like the production.

ive done this boxing thing before with albums, usually with 2 or 3, and found theres different ways to decide whos the best, you can do it by putting each song from best to worst and comparing like for like, and scoring 3, 2 or 1 depending on positions, do it for each song but all the albums available have to have the same number of songs to get a true result.and then total them and compare, or you can just average each albums songs out of 10, so albums with different amount of songs can be compared,

ive tried these formulas with goats head soup, its only rock and roll and some girls, also done it with tattoo you and some girls, results were interesting and conflicted some times.

for undercover and steel wheels, i would guess undercover would be better, but if i done the maths they could be closer.

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Witness
A completely uneven match of albums!

To me UNDERCOVER is the Stones latest great album and, besides, is the final album of the last peak period of their studio career. In some way a peak period even with a certain continuity through its albums. .

STEEL WHEELS, again to me, simply does not belong to their great albums, but instead with the preceding and the following album constitutes a comparative slump in their career. STEEL WHEELS nonetheless includes one song (or piece of music) that is one of the all time career greats by the Rolling Stones. It is obviously "Continental Drift".

U was, for me, clearly their last inventive album as a band as well as advancing their production methods and has some of Jagger's best vocal work on a record. Some of the songwriting is a bit weak but also there are some outstanding songs, like She Was Hot, Tie You Up, Feel On Baby and All The Way Down. I still like Undercover Of The Night, it is one hell of a rhythmic force, but Too Tough is, although dated, quite forced. It Must Be Hell is OK, a bit too much like Soul Survivor meets Honky Tonk Women. But whatever, it's the Stones.

Undercover for the classic more typical Stones. But if I could choose the rough mix of Steel Wheels I would. That's a keeper.

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GasLightStreet

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Witness
A completely uneven match of albums!

To me UNDERCOVER is the Stones latest great album and, besides, is the final album of the last peak period of their studio career. In some way a peak period even with a certain continuity through its albums. .

STEEL WHEELS, again to me, simply does not belong to their great albums, but instead with the preceding and the following album constitutes a comparative slump in their career. STEEL WHEELS nonetheless includes one song (or piece of music) that is one of the all time career greats by the Rolling Stones. It is obviously "Continental Drift".

U was, for me, clearly their last inventive album as a band as well as advancing their production methods and has some of Jagger's best vocal work on a record. Some of the songwriting is a bit weak but also there are some outstanding songs, like She Was Hot, Tie You Up, Feel On Baby and All The Way Down. I still like Undercover Of The Night, it is one hell of a rhythmic force, but Too Tough is, although dated, quite forced. It Must Be Hell is OK, a bit too much like Soul Survivor meets Honky Tonk Women. But whatever, it's the Stones.

always loved Too Tough...those guitars

If going by simple number of spins, Undercover wins it by a country mile. I haven't spontaneously reached for Steel Wheels in years. Whereas Undercover has an aggressive streak that sounds more like the Stones.

Steel Wheels is also marred by the clean and top-endy production several have already mentioned. Seems to take the balls out of it.

T@3

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GasLightStreet
UNDERCOVER over STEEL WHEELS by an EXILE ON MAIN STREET canyon.

With U, they weren't yer daddy's or grampa's Rolling Stones - they were truly different, invigorated, creative, they challenged themselves and the fans. It was absolutely new.

With SW is was Stones by the numbers 'We're back' blandness... with some highlights.

WOW, GasLightStreet! This was an inspired post!

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Witness

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GasLightStreet
UNDERCOVER over STEEL WHEELS by an EXILE ON MAIN STREET canyon.

With U, they weren't yer daddy's or grampa's Rolling Stones - they were truly different, invigorated, creative, they challenged themselves and the fans. It was absolutely new.

With SW is was Stones by the numbers 'We're back' blandness... with some highlights.

WOW, GasLightStreet! This was an inspired post!

That's funny.

I think they accomplished a good bit with U. There's seemingly a decent bit of leftovers that point to other directions than how the LP ended up but they seemed inspired, say, more than anything since, with exception to some tracks on BRIDGES and BANG.

Undercover by a landslide.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Undercover gets my vote.