Perhaps it takes a guitarplayer to recognize a guitarplayer. Keith's 'more difficult licks' certainly weren't played by someone else but Keith on the media that we've seen, I don't think. But then, of course I didn't see every live show. The funny thing is, however, that Keith made more mistakes in the past 7 years than on the ABB tour right after his fall.

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Lynd8
There are stories about U2 doing it too

[forum.atu2.com]

U2 have used backing tapes since 1984, and an offstage keyboard player since 1991. It, too, is not a secret, but the official recording of their 2015/2018 shows is pretty depressing with respect to just how much is on tape.

What happened to coming up with "road" versions of songs that could be played just by the people on stage?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-21 02:27 by tommycharles.

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mickschix
Such thin-skinned folks!! It is a FACT that Blondie played off-stage to " fill in" for Keith during his " semi-conscious period!". And I agree with TOMMYCHARLES, it's Chuck who does a lot of very clever configuring...which SOME PEOPLE hate to admit....I never could figure out why there's such pockets of hate directed at Chuck. If you're a real Stones fan you should be happy that Chuck adds such depth and real artistry to the band. Mick KNOWS and as long as Mick appreciates Chuck, he's staying in the band. I don't think anyone ever said there was an entire BAND backstage playing INSTEAD of the Stones. I do think there was more than just Blondie though....can anyone substantiate that? Who might the other musicians have been?

What other musicians??????) Where are you getting this from???? Sound like complete bullshit to me.

When are theeeee …"Under The Stage" band putting an album out ???



ROCKMAN

There's no doubt that the Stones do use a pre-recorded backing track for Sympathy for the Devil.

Help from others on stage is no crime. If you watch the 'Concert for George' you'll see that Eric Clapton is 'shadowed' (my term) by another player for most of the time - but he keeps the great solos for himself. Fair enough in my book as he was basically 'leading' the band and had to be cut some slack for that.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella
There's no doubt that the Stones do use a pre-recorded backing track for Sympathy for the Devil.

Help from others on stage is no crime. If you watch the 'Concert for George' you'll see that Eric Clapton is 'shadowed' (my term) by another player for most of the time - but he keeps the great solos for himself. Fair enough in my book as he was basically 'leading' the band and had to be cut some slack for that.

Yes they use a backing track for sftd and htw since 1989, yes Blondie would strum a barely audible guitar backstage on the first few songs and then on stage but what does this have to do with what the writer of the article is suggesting?

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Ket

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mickschix
Such thin-skinned folks!! It is a FACT that Blondie played off-stage to " fill in" for Keith during his " semi-conscious period!". And I agree with TOMMYCHARLES, it's Chuck who does a lot of very clever configuring...which SOME PEOPLE hate to admit....I never could figure out why there's such pockets of hate directed at Chuck. If you're a real Stones fan you should be happy that Chuck adds such depth and real artistry to the band. Mick KNOWS and as long as Mick appreciates Chuck, he's staying in the band. I don't think anyone ever said there was an entire BAND backstage playing INSTEAD of the Stones. I do think there was more than just Blondie though....can anyone substantiate that? Who might the other musicians have been?

What other musicians??????) Where are you getting this from???? Sound like complete bullshit to me.

This is a misunderstanding. Lisa, Bernard and Blondie didn't come out on stage for the first couple of numbers on the ABB-tour (and possibly one more), but sang and played behind the curtain. Obviously not to hide them, as they eventually came on and did the same on stage after the opening numbers.

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tommycharles

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Lynd8
There are stories about U2 doing it too

[forum.atu2.com]

U2 have used backing tapes since 1984, and an offstage keyboard player since 1991. It, too, is not a secret, but the official recording of their 2015/2018 shows is pretty depressing with respect to just how much is on tape.

What happened to coming up with "road" versions of songs that could be played just by the people on stage?!

yes the keyboard player is terry lawless who gets mentioned by the band at every show as far as I know

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CaptainCorella
There's no doubt that the Stones do use a pre-recorded backing track for Sympathy for the Devil.

From what all I can recall reading a long time ago they use samples, not recordings, for SFTD since 1989 (the same with the cowbell for HTW).

U2's shows... they want the big production to sound like the records so... that's what they do. I've never heard a U2 fan complain.

If people want to say U2 cheat than so do the Stones. But neither of them cheat like Madonna and Britney and the silly boybands etc, who all lip sync to recordings, some of them apparently from the albums.

So the Stones are fake playing on stage to a live band they can’t see and following all the chords, solos, drum fills and crashes to avoid making mistakes playing themselves. That does sound a lot easier. So the hidden band must makes intentional mistakes so the Stones still play as we expect BUT fewer mistakes than if the Stones played themselves.

I knew it.

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GasLightStreet

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CaptainCorella
There's no doubt that the Stones do use a pre-recorded backing track for Sympathy for the Devil.

From what all I can recall reading a long time ago they use samples, not recordings, for SFTD since 1989 (the same with the cowbell for HTW).

U2's shows... they want the big production to sound like the records so... that's what they do. I've never heard a U2 fan complain.

If people want to say U2 cheat than so do the Stones. But neither of them cheat like Madonna and Britney and the silly boybands etc, who all lip sync to recordings, some of them apparently from the albums.

Possibly (one of) the band(s) that introduced sampling during live performances are The Who. I went so see the original Who (with Keith Moon) a couple of times many decades ago and (if I remember well) two songs from Who's Next started with a synthesizer tune before the band joined in. Nobody ever complained about that.
It's the same as video screens ... it's adds to the overall experience and that's what counts.

I have seen The Rolling Stones at club shows and at rehearsals. There are no curtains or backstage musicians there. They sound just as amazing there as on stage with larger stadiums.

The fact that they want focus on the core band for the first couple of songs at show start does not change the fact that The Rolling Stones is the band in the rock industry with almost no playback. Sure there is a playback of congas at the intro of Sympathy, but that is nothing as compared to bands like U2.

Bjornulf

"I have seen The Rolling Stones at club shows and at rehearsals. There are no curtains or backstage musicians there. They sound just as amazing there as on stage with larger stadiums.

The fact that they want focus on the core band for the first couple of songs at show start does not change the fact that The Rolling Stones is the band in the rock industry with almost no playback. Sure there is a playback of congas at the intro of Sympathy, but that is nothing as compared to bands like U2.

Bjornulf"


AMEN!

For sure !

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Rocky Dijon
Back-up singers, a brass section, a keyboard simulating guitars, basslines, and rhythm tracks is really quite enough.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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powerage78
For sure !

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Rocky Dijon
Back-up singers, a brass section, a keyboard simulating guitars, basslines, and rhythm tracks is really quite enough.

Do you have examples of keyboards with guitar sounds on live Stones tracks?

The only ones I've heard are on the bridge on RAAHP on Steel Wheels.

Playing the same chords on Fender Rhodes or a wurlitzer has nothing to do with simulating guitars, it's merely filling in.

And Matt's "interlude" on the SW/UJ-tour is forgotten. As far as I'm concerned, it never happened



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 16:09 by DandelionPowderman.

Didn't The Who use Simon Townshend off the stage for years to add fill in sound?

Bard, what you described is what I meant. You just said it better.

What I was trying to convey was they already have plenty of support musicians touring with them, they don't need a backup band behind the curtain or under the stage.

I could argue how the role of keyboards changed from Mac to Chuck and/or Matt, but you already know that. You have keyboard lines extending the guitar solo (if that's the right way to say it) on something like "Can't Be Seen" or covering for the opening riff on "Sad, Sad, Sad" instead of playing alongside the guitars the way Mac would on "Miss You" or "Beast of Burden." I love Chuck in the studio on something like "Harlem Shuffle" or "Tie You Up" or "Mixed Emotions" or even "Dirty Work." I love Matt in the studio on "Terrifying" or "Continental Drift" or "Break the Spell." I understand the role of keyboards is now needed to fill in the sound, but it's unfortunate. It's no different than the way Ronnie used Andy Wallace a few years ago. It's become keyboards plus when I just prefer old fashioned keyboards with no filling or covering required.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 16:27 by Rocky Dijon.

Well... If there are musicians backing them up to cover the mistakes and fu... ups, they do a pretty lame job



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 16:41 by daniel t.

Of course the interlude in 2,000 Light Years From Home on the Steel Wheels tour is a rare example of keyboards actually simulating a guitar solo sound. But I'm sure that it was never meant to fool us into thinking it was Keith or Ronnie playing that. For the rest, keyboards obviously fill up the sound but they're not simulated guitar parts.
Prerecorded sound effects are being used by a lot of bands and everyone knows that they're just extra effects, not actually being performed live by the band.
The important thing is, is whether or not the band members are miming or not. Does Charlie (or anyone for that matter) pretend to actually play a cowbell at the start of HTW? Are there percussionists pretending to play congas and stuff during SFTD?

I don't think the Stones have mimed outside of TV appearances.

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The Sicilian
Didn't The Who use Simon Townshend off the stage for years to add fill in sound?

Both on and off stage, but not in the 1971/1972 period. He was too young (born in 1960). The stages used by The Who (Liverpool, Amsterdam) in that period were very simple ... no curtains. Occasionally a guy appeared on stage modestly doing something to equipment at the background. But Baba O'Riley for instance was played with the exact sound as on the album (and no keyboard or synthesizer person present).

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Rocky Dijon
Bard, what you described is what I meant. You just said it better.

What I was trying to convey was they already have plenty of support musicians touring with them, they don't need a backup band behind the curtain or under the stage.

I could argue how the role of keyboards changed from Mac to Chuck and/or Matt, but you already know that. You have keyboard lines extending the guitar solo (if that's the right way to say it) on something like "Can't Be Seen" or covering for the opening riff on "Sad, Sad, Sad" instead of playing alongside the guitars the way Mac would on "Miss You" or "Beast of Burden." I love Chuck in the studio on something like "Harlem Shuffle" or "Tie You Up" or "Mixed Emotions" or even "Dirty Work." I love Matt in the studio on "Terrifying" or "Continental Drift" or "Break the Spell." I understand the role of keyboards is now needed to fill in the sound, but it's unfortunate. It's no different than the way Ronnie used Andy Wallace a few years ago. It's become keyboards plus when I just prefer old fashioned keyboards with no filling or covering required.

Yeah, I forgot about Can't Be Seen. Matt is indeed extending Keith's line there. Or complementing, would be more precise, as it's a form of weaving with two different sounds.

The Sad Sad Sad-example is just a bad choice of sound by Chuck, imo. Had he chosen something more punchy (like even Billy Preston did on certain tunes) it could have worked. However, there should be no reason for filling in when a guitar starts a song with a riff.

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SomeGuy
Of course the interlude in 2,000 Light Years From Home on the Steel Wheels tour is a rare example of keyboards actually simulating a guitar solo sound. But I'm sure that it was never meant to fool us into thinking it was Keith or Ronnie playing that. For the rest, keyboards obviously fill up the sound but they're not simulated guitar parts.
Prerecorded sound effects are being used by a lot of bands and everyone knows that they're just extra effects, not actually being performed live by the band.
The important thing is, is whether or not the band members are miming or not. Does Charlie (or anyone for that matter) pretend to actually play a cowbell at the start of HTW? Are there percussionists pretending to play congas and stuff during SFTD?

On the first official japenese From the vault-release Keith is actually sabotaging Matt by playing insanely loud licks during his piece. They kept it that way on the album

Chuck also "embellishes" the opening riff to Little T&A, but that's being polite - at Desert Trip looked like Chuck played almost the whole thing while Keith embellished him.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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DandelionPowderman

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SomeGuy
Of course the interlude in 2,000 Light Years From Home on the Steel Wheels tour is a rare example of keyboards actually simulating a guitar solo sound. But I'm sure that it was never meant to fool us into thinking it was Keith or Ronnie playing that. For the rest, keyboards obviously fill up the sound but they're not simulated guitar parts.
Prerecorded sound effects are being used by a lot of bands and everyone knows that they're just extra effects, not actually being performed live by the band.
The important thing is, is whether or not the band members are miming or not. Does Charlie (or anyone for that matter) pretend to actually play a cowbell at the start of HTW? Are there percussionists pretending to play congas and stuff during SFTD?

On the first official japenese From the vault-release Keith is actually sabotaging Matt by playing insanely loud licks during his piece. They kept it that way on the album

By the way, I said interlude but of course I meant the ending. There's a clearer recording than Tokyo Dome that has the keyboard part in question mixed right in your face, not the cd single edit but the full version from the Barcelona show.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-12-23 21:38 by SomeGuy.

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georgie48

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The Sicilian
Didn't The Who use Simon Townshend off the stage for years to add fill in sound?

Both on and off stage, but not in the 1971/1972 period. He was too young (born in 1960). The stages used by The Who (Liverpool, Amsterdam) in that period were very simple ... no curtains. Occasionally a guy appeared on stage modestly doing something to equipment at the background. But Baba O'Riley for instance was played with the exact sound as on the album (and no keyboard or synthesizer person present).

Happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ST was ever offstage. He played all the lead guitar and sang a lead vocal in '96/97, and from '02-present has been on stage (and introduced with the band intros).

at Desert Trip looked like Chuck played almost the whole thing while Keith embellished him


Keith wanted Chuck to shine while dehydration was raging …



ROCKMAN

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SomeGuy

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DandelionPowderman

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SomeGuy
Of course the interlude in 2,000 Light Years From Home on the Steel Wheels tour is a rare example of keyboards actually simulating a guitar solo sound. But I'm sure that it was never meant to fool us into thinking it was Keith or Ronnie playing that. For the rest, keyboards obviously fill up the sound but they're not simulated guitar parts.
Prerecorded sound effects are being used by a lot of bands and everyone knows that they're just extra effects, not actually being performed live by the band.
The important thing is, is whether or not the band members are miming or not. Does Charlie (or anyone for that matter) pretend to actually play a cowbell at the start of HTW? Are there percussionists pretending to play congas and stuff during SFTD?

On the first official japenese From the vault-release Keith is actually sabotaging Matt by playing insanely loud licks during his piece. They kept it that way on the album

By the way, I said interlude but of course I meant the ending. There's a clearer recording than Tokyo Dome that has the keyboard part in question mixed right in your face, not the cd single edit but the full version from the Barcelona show.

Most shows have Matt's screeching loud and clear. Keith must have been pissed at him in Tokyo, or something...

At the London O2 shows in 2012 I was seriously thinking that there was another guitarist playing Keith’s parts (particularly the big B strums just after Mick sings Gas Gas Gas). On subsequent shows it became obvious that it was actually the sound mixer boosting the volume of Keith’s guitar in those bits but at the O2 shows it did sometimes look as though the sound was coming from somewhere else (is the sound didn’t match up to what I could see Keith playing). Maybe the Scarf was involved somehow....

if the stones were going to do this back up behind the stage act couldnt they have started it around 1990, and put a tape of a 1973 concert on to drown out the tinkling of the piano.

we might have fallen for it then.