...sort of a nice way to say he's "useless" but so much has been suspected here for years. This is from Steve Gorman's Black Crowes recent biography on Don Was producing Lions in 2000 :

"Don had a very different approach, though. Truth be told, I wasn’t entirely sure what his approach was at the time. All I could be certain of was that he wasn’t in good shape."

"I wasn’t surprised. He told me that back in those days, his approach when working with artists was simply to do whatever drugs they were doing at the time. He was a human mood enhancer, in a sense.
I love Don. We all enjoyed his company, but I can’t look back and remember any specific arrangement or songwriting tips he came up with"

Not sure if/when he cleaned up but it seems he was still out of it in 2002 when he was sitting on the floor at Guillaume Tell in 2002. It's odd that Mick tolerated that!

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Yet Lions is one hell of an album!

C

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gotdablouse

it seems he was still out of it in 2002 when he was sitting on the floor at Guillaume Tell in 2002. It's odd that Mick tolerated that!

Maybe Mick thought he was useless on a musical plan but since Keef seemed to like the man (and his encyclopedic knowledge of popular music) Don was still useful on a diplomatic plan = keep Keef nice and open in the studio.

Don Was appeared in an encore at Tedeschi Trucks Band show at Tokyo Dome City Hall in June this year.
I was happy to see him play "Statesboro Blues" with them.

Right, sort of explains why they haven't been "pushed" since VL though apart from B2B where he was generally (only) credited as "executive producer" or "production coordinator" with other producers bringing actual ideas to the table...This "mood business" probably didn't help to overcome the "2015 Wall"...

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

So he is sort of the human form of weed

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Nikkei
So he is sort of the human form of weed

Break out the Roundup

Now they should hire Rick Rubin for that final studio album!

(cough cough) If you read Gorman's book you might think it's not a good idea. The drummer can be added to the loooong list of people (like Angus Young or Corey Taylor) who think the guy is either, a crook, or full of sh!t, or both.

Rubin's main skill is in convincing artists it's OK to return to their roots and the techniques what brung 'em to the party. In the case of the Stones that's not a bad idea.

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dcba
Now they should hire Rick Rubin for that final studio album!

(cough cough) If you read Gorman's book you might think it's not a good idea. The drummer can be added to the loooong list of people (like Angus Young or Corey Taylor) who think the guy is either, a crook, or full of sh!t, or both.

According to Chris Robinson on their old Behind the Music episode, Rubin suggested they name their band the Kobb Kounty Krows (KKK)...Chris looked at him and said, "Hey thanks! Great idea...you @#$%& @#$%&!"

Actually I'm pretty sure it's Rich who was telling that story in "Behind the Music" but it's also in Gorman's book.

I was a big Rubin fan because of Cash and "Wandering Spirit" but in Gorman's book it sounds like he added absolutely ZERO to the Black Crowes and appears as a complete loony. In his defense they were really Drakoulias' "babies" and he let them get on with it. It had to have been difference with Cash and Jagger.

I'm still a bit shocked with what Gorman wrote about Don Was though, again it doesn't come as much of a surprise since other than the great "Was (not Was)" cover of "Papa was a Rollin' Stone" I can't think of anything "great" he's done. He must have "something" for all these superstars to want to work with him as well as getting away with "average" productions (Stones, Highwaymen, etc...) and downright disasters like Dylan's "Blood red Sky" or something like that I won't even bother looking up.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
Actually I'm pretty sure it's Rich who was telling that story in "Behind the Music"

Yeah, I think you're right, although I've heard the story from several members over the years.

I've read a lot of mixed feedback on Rubin from various artists over the years. Most of his feedback, as someone else said above, revolves around trying to get back to the core sound that made an artist famous in the first place.

That's basically what he did with Metallica and Black Sabbath...he made them write songs that, structure-wise, could have been on their first few albums, but the methods he uses to get the bands in that headspace are odd and confusing.

From '87, this tune enhanced my mood by making me laugh at how bad it was.




And to think Don Was would become a permanent producer for the Stones.............

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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gotdablouse
Right, sort of explains why they haven't been "pushed" since VL though apart from B2B where he was generally (only) credited as "executive producer" or "production coordinator" with other producers bringing actual ideas to the table...This "mood business" probably didn't help to overcome the "2015 Wall"...

I know the whole point of this thread is to shit on Don Was so I'll not get in the way of that, but at no point is a Grammy-winning producer labeled a production coordinator on BRIDGES TO BABYLON. Along with the Glimmer Twins, he's an Executive Producer and is also a co-producer on the album. The reason for the Executive Producer credit was to separate Don and the Glimmers from The Dust Brothers and Danny Saber who were also given co-producer credits on tracks they worked on. Rob Fraboni fought and won a single co-producer credit, but believes he deserved three.

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rbk
Rubin's main skill is in convincing artists it's OK to return to their roots and the techniques what brung 'em to the party. In the case of the Stones that's not a bad idea.

Do you mean like VOODOO LOUNGE or the garage band sound on A BIGGER BANG or their real roots like on BLUE AND LONESOME? Just curious.

All I can make out of it is that he is a yes man and will do whatever is asked of him as opposed to a real producer who will have a vision or an idea or 2 . I have seen images of him sitting on the floor barefoot and looking out of it and what he would have to offer is beyond me , but what do I know ? I did see him perform with Bob Weir and Ratdog playing bass and that was a snoozefest probably because of Bob Weir .

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TheGreek
All I can make out of it is that he is a yes man and will do whatever is asked of him as opposed to a real producer who will have a vision or an idea or 2 .

I don't think the Stones have had one of those since Jimmy Miller.

B52's Love Shack was produced by Don Was …..



ROCKMAN

Perhaps a Rick Rubin type would have the balls to veto some of the songs themselves before they even make it past demo form.
Just because Mick says he's has written 40 "great" demos, or Keith says he has three "dynamite" riffs doesn't mean they're truly worthy, and that might be the problem with Don Was who OK's everything. Maybe he's a afraid of Mick and Keith?
Get a decent batch of tunes with someone in the studio who's tough and who can tell mediocre sh+t from greatness, and then let Don Was tinker with them for a little bit...or maybe leave Don out of it all together for a change.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Interesting that Don didn't produce Mick's single since Ronnie and Charlie played on them and according to Keith, these started as Stones tracks.

Of course, Mick also complained about Don moving them away from groove tunes during VOODOO LOUNGE and Don discussed the careful negotiations to get Keith a third lead vocal on B2B. Mick also mentioned Don not liking all of the songs he brought to the table in 2012 when everyone went for "Doom and Gloom" instead of the obvious ones (in Mick's view). Apparently, he's not always a yes-man.

Whatever the case, it couldn't hurt to try someone different for a change.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

trouble is Rubin's sound is always so clinical … so cold …
Recently forked out good bucks for Rubin produced Ruen Brothers disc ….
Man it was cleaner than an operating theatre …… bored me ta death … zzzzzz



Stones need ta Get some dirt back into their studio sound ….



ROCKMAN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-26 23:52 by Rockman.

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Rockman
trouble is Rubin's sound is always so clinical … so cold …

Stones need ta Get some dirty back into their studio sound ….

They should pick up where they left with Hoodoo Blues..

OOOOOhhhh yes that's the sound we need Dandy …. filthy stuff ...



ROCKMAN

I never knew that about Love Shack, Rockster. It does sound incredibly Stonesy for sure.

Must be Charley Drayton's drumming...

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DandelionPowderman

They should pick up where they left with Hoodoo Blues..

I think there's about as much chance of replacing Don as there is Chuck, but if I could pick anyone, it would be Rob Fraboni producing with Ben Elliott engineering. I could listen to Keith's versions of "You Win Again" and "Still a Fool" all day.

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Rocky Dijon
Interesting that Don didn't produce Mick's single since Ronnie and Charlie played on them and according to Keith, these started as Stones tracks.

Of course, Mick also complained about Don moving them away from groove tunes during VOODOO LOUNGE and Don discussed the careful negotiations to get Keith a third lead vocal on B2B. Mick also mentioned Don not liking all of the songs he brought to the table in 2012 when everyone went for "Doom and Gloom" instead of the obvious ones (in Mick's view). Apparently, he's not always a yes-man.

It sounds like Don Was has something on you ;-) J/K and you make a couple of valid points, however your recollection of the 2012 tracks is not mine, at least based on how Mick told the story, i.e. he sent some tracks to DW and his engineer and after listening they asked if he had something else, he then sent them "what he knew they wanted" (so something possibly a bit more "obvious") and that turned out to be "Doom & Gloom".

Anyway that thread is not here to sh*t on DW but to share the insight that a respected (and no BS) musician like Gorman gives on how he works (or at least worked in 2000) as it could be of some interest to, huh, Stones fans. Especially those that were perplexed at seeing him sitting on the floor in the studio, with his shades and hat, during the 2002 sessions in Paris.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

If Don had something on me, I wouldn't suggest Rob Fraboni as his replacement. My general opinion is if there's a problem with the recordings, it isn't the producer just like if there's a problem with the live sound, it isn't the keyboard player. However, it's just one man's take.

I liked Gorman's drumming with the Crowes. His book is honest and makes for great reading, but it also reads like a guy who knows he's done with the music and doesn't care how many enemies he makes. I guess it's good he's got the sports thing to fall back on. The Crowes certainly could use him back. From what I've heard of the new lineup, the drummer is the weak link.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-27 04:28 by Rocky Dijon.

The only two people who should be let anywhere near a Stones studio session is Chris Kimsey and Bob Clearmountain.