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stone66
There was a time when they seemed to have outgrown the need for a producer's guiding hand: beginning with It's Only Rock n Roll right on through Tattoo You.
Coincidentally, it's only when they brought in "associate" producers like Chris Kimsey et al. that their long decline became evident -- Undercover, Dirty Work, Steel Wheels, etc. Should have just kept Kimsey as the sound engineer.
They didn't need a Don Was or even a Jimmy Miller for Some Girls -- they had the determination, something to prove to a new emerging audience, and, most important, they had the material to compete with the best of what was out there at the time.
If you don't have the goods to deliver to begin with, then no amount of outside help will do the job.
Is that really the place of Don Was among the Stones? For mood enhancement and other diplomatic functions? That isn't producing, that's counseling.
I wonder if this thread will get merged with that ancient "new album in 2090?" thread.
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Spodlumt
The only two people who should be let anywhere near a Stones studio session is Chris Kimsey and Bob Clearmountain.
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Rocky Dijon
Kimsey's Associate Producer credit was more of a kindness to an engineer recognizing his sizable contribution and helping him advance. The Stones were his first producer credits. Consider the good fortune to be Chris Kimsey at that point in time and have an artist like The Stones make you a producer.
Starting with the CBS deal, an outside producer was something required by the label. These were huge contracts. There was much at stake for the labels, not just finding someone to safely navigate the waters between Camp Mick and Camp Keith.
This track came out in the late 70's way before Don Was collaborated with the StonesQuote
peoplewitheyes
I never knew that about Love Shack, Rockster. It does sound incredibly Stonesy for sure.
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DandelionPowderman
When you shape excellent songs out of 10-15 minutes unstructured jams, you surely deserve that credit - not to mention picking which songs Mick should work on for TY?
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TheGreekThis track came out in the late 70's way before Don Was collaborated with the StonesQuote
peoplewitheyes
I never knew that about Love Shack, Rockster. It does sound incredibly Stonesy for sure.
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Rocky DijonQuote
DandelionPowderman
When you shape excellent songs out of 10-15 minutes unstructured jams, you surely deserve that credit - not to mention picking which songs Mick should work on for TY?
Sure, but his first Associate Producer credit is on EMOTIONAL RESCUE. During press for SOME GIRLS they gave him a great deal of credit for how good the album sounded. While that may seem only proper, it is also a rarity. How many times do they mention their engineer repeatedly when promoting an album?
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DandelionPowderman
Indeed. But they did so because he did a tremendous amount of work on those three albums. We have heard the long versions, so if the Stones gave him carte blanche to edit, shape and produce that was a natural development, imo.
He was back as engineer only on SWAY, wasn't he?
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Nikkei
Maybe the Stones just @#$%& the @#$%& in the @#$%& though that would be @#$%&
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gotdablouse
however your recollection of the 2012 tracks is not mine, at least based on how Mick told the story, i.e. he sent some tracks to DW and his engineer and after listening they asked if he had something else, he then sent them "what he knew they wanted" (so something possibly a bit more "obvious") and that turned out to be "Doom & Gloom".
Anyway that thread is not here to sh*t on DW but to share the insight that a respected (and no BS) musician like Gorman gives on how he works (or at least worked in 2000) as it could be of some interest to, huh, Stones fans. Especially those that were perplexed at seeing him sitting on the floor in the studio, with his shades and hat, during the 2002 sessions in Paris.
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Rocky DijonQuote
DandelionPowderman
Indeed. But they did so because he did a tremendous amount of work on those three albums. We have heard the long versions, so if the Stones gave him carte blanche to edit, shape and produce that was a natural development, imo.
He was back as engineer only on SWAY, wasn't he?
Oh I agree he definitely earned the right to a full producer credit by the time of UNDERCOVER and arguably before. I just meant he was in the right place at the right time and had the talent to deliver what they needed. I can't imagine that happening to Krishna Sharma for instance. I don't think they've ever mentioned him in interviews though he's been around (off and on) for as long as Don Was in their circles. Even more to the point is the falling out with Glyn Johns over BLACK AND BLUE and Mick's bitchy remarks about "some people think they're producers, but they're really just engineers" during the album's promotion.
Chris was an assistant engineer to Andy Johns on STICKY FINGERS. If I remember correctly, he was called out to Mick's house when Andy was sick or had a sick child and couldn't make it. It was one of the first sessions with the Mobile truck. Kimsey and Mick reconnected just before SOME GIRLS when Kimsey was engineering Peter Frampton. Mick sang on Frampton's version of "Signed, Sealed, Delivered" and then offered Kimsey the chance to record the Stones.
A Charmed Life indeed.
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stone66
Coincidentally, it's only when they brought in "associate" producers like Chris Kimsey et al. that their long decline became evident -- Undercover, Dirty Work, Steel Wheels, etc. Should have just kept Kimsey as the sound engineer.
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liddas
Yet Lions is one hell of an album!
C
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone66
There was a time when they seemed to have outgrown the need for a producer's guiding hand: beginning with It's Only Rock n Roll right on through Tattoo You.
Coincidentally, it's only when they brought in "associate" producers like Chris Kimsey et al. that their long decline became evident -- Undercover, Dirty Work, Steel Wheels, etc. Should have just kept Kimsey as the sound engineer.
They didn't need a Don Was or even a Jimmy Miller for Some Girls -- they had the determination, something to prove to a new emerging audience, and, most important, they had the material to compete with the best of what was out there at the time.
If you don't have the goods to deliver to begin with, then no amount of outside help will do the job.
Is that really the place of Don Was among the Stones? For mood enhancement and other diplomatic functions? That isn't producing, that's counseling.
I wonder if this thread will get merged with that ancient "new album in 2090?" thread.
Hm, what would SG and TY be without Kimsey?
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Rocky Dijon
How a man who is so right about everything else continues to fail to appreciate the joys of "Honest Man" boggles the mind.
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Rocky Dijon
He's safe and they need safe and comfortable. They're far too old for anything else.