Bill Wyman -- Rolling With The Stones …………..



ROCKMAN

Quote
VideoJames
I have a conflict with some of the dates listed in Bill's book. The
News of The World gig was on May 11th not May 4th I see people on the
site have already mentioned that the date (May 4th)is incorrect. This gig
(Battersea Park) was the first gig (May 11th) that Oldham & Easton booked for the Stones after signing them on May 9th.(Brian Jones doing the signing).

This confusion over 4th vs 11th May - which Deltics also raises - needs examination.

Bill only ever refers to it as "News Of The World Charity Gala" - Rolling With The Stones PP51,58. (And Stone Alone P136, but missing from Appendix 2).

Note that...."News Of The World"

If you look at the scanned quotes that Deltic posted, they refer to a gig being organised by the Variety Club (of Great Britain) and date that show as May 11th. That's from the 4th May 1963 Disc cutting. The second cutting is a report from May 18th 1963 about the concert.

Neither of Deltic's cuttings mention The Rolling Stones, nor any "News of The World" connection.

So, do we know whether or not there was one show, organised by the News Of The World on May 4th, and another organised by The Variety Club of Great Britain on May 11th? (Or one show on 11th where both parties had a hand in it?)

Don't forget Bill keeps a daily diary, and any 'challenge' to a date he's got in a contemporaneous account has to be unbelievably well founded.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
VideoJames

BTW as for the subject line (Earliest group photo) I have a lead on two people that may have photos of the Stones (ON STAGE live) in 1962 with a different drummer & bass player. That would be an amazing find. More on that later, I hope.

Cool if we get to see them, effectively meaningless for wider public if not.

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
VideoJames
I have a conflict with some of the dates listed in Bill's book. The
News of The World gig was on May 11th not May 4th I see people on the
site have already mentioned that the date (May 4th)is incorrect. This gig
(Battersea Park) was the first gig (May 11th) that Oldham & Easton booked for the Stones after signing them on May 9th.(Brian Jones doing the signing).

This confusion over 4th vs 11th May - which Deltics also raises - needs examination.

Bill only ever refers to it as "News Of The World Charity Gala" - Rolling With The Stones PP51,58. (And Stone Alone P136, but missing from Appendix 2).

Note that...."News Of The World"

If you look at the scanned quotes that Deltic posted, they refer to a gig being organised by the Variety Club (of Great Britain) and date that show as May 11th. That's from the 4th May 1963 Disc cutting. The second cutting is a report from May 18th 1963 about the concert.

Neither of Deltic's cuttings mention The Rolling Stones, nor any "News of The World" connection.

So, do we know whether or not there was one show, organised by the News Of The World on May 4th, and another organised by The Variety Club of Great Britain on May 11th? (Or one show on 11th where both parties had a hand in it?)

Don't forget Bill keeps a daily diary, and any 'challenge' to a date he's got in a contemporaneous account has to be unbelievably well founded.

As I understand it, Bill's early archives are incomplete due to loss/theft.
I suspect he got the date and the News Of The World connection from the July '63 edition of "Beat Monthly".



There is Pathe News footage of the Variety Club Gala and at approx. 55 seconds it shows the boating lake, next to which the Stones played, with the News Of The World banner in the background.

[www.britishpathe.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Here's a screenshot.



I believe that the Variety Club Gala and the NOTW event are one and the same and it took place on May 11.
The Stones weren't mentioned in either of the "Disc" articles because they were still largely unknown and hadn't even had a record released yet.

To confuse matters further, the NOTW banners appear to be giving a date of Saturday 19th May but the 19th was a Sunday in 1963! (It was a Saturday in 1962).






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-11 21:39 by Deltics.

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
VideoJames
I have a conflict with some of the dates listed in Bill's book. The
News of The World gig was on May 11th not May 4th I see people on the
site have already mentioned that the date (May 4th)is incorrect. This gig
(Battersea Park) was the first gig (May 11th) that Oldham & Easton booked for the Stones after signing them on May 9th.(Brian Jones doing the signing).

This confusion over 4th vs 11th May - which Deltics also raises - needs examination.

Bill only ever refers to it as "News Of The World Charity Gala" - Rolling With The Stones PP51,58. (And Stone Alone P136, but missing from Appendix 2).

Note that...."News Of The World"

If you look at the scanned quotes that Deltic posted, they refer to a gig being organised by the Variety Club (of Great Britain) and date that show as May 11th. That's from the 4th May 1963 Disc cutting. The second cutting is a report from May 18th 1963 about the concert.

Neither of Deltic's cuttings mention The Rolling Stones, nor any "News of The World" connection.

So, do we know whether or not there was one show, organised by the News Of The World on May 4th, and another organised by The Variety Club of Great Britain on May 11th? (Or one show on 11th where both parties had a hand in it?)

Don't forget Bill keeps a daily diary, and any 'challenge' to a date he's got in a contemporaneous account has to be unbelievably well founded.

As I understand it, Bill's early archives are incomplete due to loss/theft.
I suspect he got the date and the News Of The World connection from the July '63 edition of "Beat Monthly".



There is Pathe News footage of the Variety Club Gala and at approx. 55 seconds it shows the boating lake, next to which the Stones played, with the News Of The World banner in the background.

[www.britishpathe.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Here's a screenshot.



I believe that the Variety Club Gala and the NOTW event are one and the same and it took place on May 11.
The Stones weren't mentioned in either of the "Disc" articles because they were still largely unknown and hadn't even had a record released yet.

To confuse matters further, the NOTW banners appear to be giving a date of Saturday 19th May but the 19th was a Sunday in 1963! (It was a Saturday in 1962).

This is all a bit like going through the forensics at the scene of the crime trying to fix some facts and set aside other stuff!

Well spotted - a short, almost transient, glimpse of the NoTW banner pretty much removes the option of there having been two events.

I reckon that the date/banner thing is easily explained. I strongly suspect that the banner will have been used in previous years, and that a small square with each year's date will have been pasted over the numbers. Perhaps the 1962 Gala was on 18th or 19th May 1962?

If I was in London I'd be spending a lot of time at the Newspaper Archives in Colindale (or wherever it is now) checking this stuff at source! And, of course, looking for any paper that mentions a gig on May 4th and any paper that had a full(er) account of the events of May 11th. The NoTW has closed down so their archives don't appear to be available online anywhere that I can find - outside of the British Library.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-12 12:55 by His Majesty.

Fascinating stuff!

The program for the 1963 festival (sorry for the bad resolution, it was the only one I could find on this link, no longer available):

Quote
Cristiano Radtke
The program for the 1963 festival (sorry for the bad resolution, it was the only one I could find on this link, no longer available):

Brilliant.
This confirms the date and the NOTW involvement.
Many thanks.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

My pleasure, Deltics!

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in those NOTW concert photos Keith's pants looks a little bit darker than in those Philip Townsend photos.

Quote
Cristiano Radtke

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in those NOTW concert photos Keith's pants looks a little bit darker than in those Philip Townsend photos.

It might be down to the light but you also may have a point.




"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Deltics

Quote
Cristiano Radtke

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in those NOTW concert photos Keith's pants looks a little bit darker than in those Philip Townsend photos.

It might be down to the light but you also may have a point.

Agreed. Very hard to tell. Not least because (to my eyes) it almost looks as if you can see Keith's toes through the shoe on his left foot!

Bill is wearing a collarless 'Beatles' jacket in the Townshend photo's, but it's not possible to make out what he's wearing in the Battersea photo's.

Sigh.... guess I've got to steel myself to asking a few difficult questions of the Oracle.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
Deltics

Quote
Cristiano Radtke

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in those NOTW concert photos Keith's pants looks a little bit darker than in those Philip Townsend photos.

It might be down to the light but you also may have a point.

And on this photo Brian's pants looks a bit different too.

Quote
Cristiano Radtke

Quote
Deltics

Quote
Cristiano Radtke

Quote
Deltics

Quote
CaptainCorella
Staying with the May 4th issue, there's also the point that Bill very clearly notes that it was the same day as the (really great) Townsend photo's were taken.

So, if the Battersea thing really was on 11th, when were those photo's taken!?

I think that Bill is correct that both occurred on the same day, the clothes seem to be the same but Cristiano's post confirms that it was the 11th, not the 4th.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in those NOTW concert photos Keith's pants looks a little bit darker than in those Philip Townsend photos.

It might be down to the light but you also may have a point.

And on this photo Brian's pants looks a bit different too.

Indeed. The contrast with the Beat Monthly image is intriguing.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
paulspendel
A snippet of "You Can't Judge A Book By The Cover" was broadcast on Simon Bates' BBC Radio One programme when he interviewed an enthusiast who in April 1988 had purchased an acetate of these three historic recordings. Mick Jagger's enunciation was distinctly non-British and leered in true Willie Dixon style. His vocals were the most distinctive instrument on the tape.

The enthusiast you mention was, to my understanding, Mick's brother Chris. Correct me if I'm wrong

Jazz News -- Wednesday 26 September 1962 …………………………...



ROCKMAN

Jazz News, also September 26, 1962.



Blues Plus Six (AKA Blues By Six) featuring Charlie Watts.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Jazz News, October 31, 1962.




"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

The Eealing Jazz Club plays a very important role in the early life of the Rollin' Stones. Brian was there already with Mick and Keith "on stage", with a few other guys, immortalized by a photo taken in that club in April 1962 (no printing mistake), some three months before the notorious July 12th.
Mick was flanked by a guitarist (left of Mick) and a sax player (right of Mick), Keith behind him and Brian at the right flank. Amazing!
Why I know? I saw it with my own eyes ... a very private photo, though.

Jazz News November 14.1962 UK

HMN

[www.nationaljazzarchive.org.uk]?

[www.nationaljazzarchive.org.uk]?


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-13 00:26 by Deltics.

Quote
JordyLicks96

Wishful thinking by Brian!
Earl Phillips was a drummer who played with Jimmy Reed, Billy Boy Arnold, John Lee Hooker, Snooky Pryor, Eddie Taylor, Howlin' Wolf and many others.

This was obviously written after it became clear that Mick Avory wasn't going to play the gig.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-13 01:20 by Deltics.

This from Yahoo:

[www.yahoo.com]

Quote
Elmo Lewis
This from Yahoo:

[www.yahoo.com]

Yeah Elmo, just saw them too.






It's weird: I want to say I have seen all these before.

Looks like it would be a good exhibition to attend.