sad day..part of my trips to paris and las vegas to see the stones

holidays can be re-booked, and it looks like refunds will be issued

but 21,000 staff out of a job today



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-23 10:52 by bv.

I too.
Last month via one of their UK shops I booked a once in a lifetime trip to Australia and New Zealand. Paid 25% deposit. Excursions, flights, hotels are not with Cook companies...they just acted as the broker. Still, a worry though.
Was due to pay the full balance on 7 October.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-23 10:29 by jlowe.

Such a big mess!

Bjornulf

This was always going to happen as they didn’t adjust to the market.Not many people use a travel agent these days most people book everything themselves online cutting out the middle man.

Sorry for the people that will lose their jobs and the people who’s holidays have been ruined.

Nate

Did they suffer from Brexit issue?

Welcome to the Brexit Show! (Pun intended)

I know that many may think that this has nothing to do with Brexit.
O.K. in case of Thomas Cook there are some other reasons too causing the collaps.
I feel very sorry for the many people suffering from this.
But I fear that this is just the beginning.
So let's wait and see.

Just my 2 cts

Phil



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-23 18:24 by Phil Good.

Quote
Phil Good
Welcome to the Brexit Show! (Pun intended)

I know that many may think that this has nothing to do with Brexit.
O.K. in case of Thomas Cook there are some other reasons too causing the collaps.
I feel very sorry for the many people suffering from this.
But I fear that this is just the beginning.
So let's wait and see.

Just my 2 cts

Phil

See Nate's post above which is the biggest single explanation. Other things haven't helped, like the weak pound and good weather in the UK this Summer making more people than usual holiday within the UK instead. The Travel Industry has been in trouble for some time (long before Brexit) with other operators going bust before. As Nate says, it's just too easy for people to book everything separately themselves for a holiday instead of buying a whole package. The internet has enabled this.

I personally voted against Brexit and would still like us to stay but the scaremongering and doom and gloom around it is silly at times. We're over 3 years on from the vote and the economy has continued to grow and unemployment is still falling. I notice no difference in day to day life here. If you plan to visit the UK for a concert or other reasons, do not be deterred. Your money will go further with the weakened pound.

Quote
grzegorz67

Quote
Phil Good
Welcome to the Brexit Show! (Pun intended)

I know that many may think that this has nothing to do with Brexit.
O.K. in case of Thomas Cook there are some other reasons too causing the collaps.
I feel very sorry for the many people suffering from this.
But I fear that this is just the beginning.
So let's wait and see.

Just my 2 cts

Phil

See Nate's post above which is the biggest single explanation. Other things haven't helped, like the weak pound and good weather in the UK this Summer making more people than usual holiday within the UK instead. The Travel Industry has been in trouble for some time (long before Brexit) with other operators going bust before. As Nate says, it's just too easy for people to book everything separately themselves for a holiday instead of buying a whole package. The internet has enabled this.

I personally voted against Brexit and would still like us to stay but the scaremongering and doom and gloom around it is silly at times. We're over 3 years on from the vote and the economy has continued to grow and unemployment is still falling. I notice no difference in day to day life here. If you plan to visit the UK for a concert or other reasons, do not be deterred. Your money will go further with the weakened pound.

I spoke to an elder English couple in March of this year and asked them about Brexit. The man said he voted for Brexit and his wife responded by saying that he now regrets. Why? His son has (or meanwhile maybe had) a big appletree farm. Due to all the Brexit stress of the past few years all his Polish employees left and returned to Poland. Since English people "don't want to do those jobs (apple harvesting)" he had to chop hundreds of trees and a major part of the crop went lost. Father and son (who voted against Brexit) are no longer on speaking terms (my modest way of expressing the family drama). See here a hidden Brexit drama.
As Mick Jagger sang: "England Lost".

Quote
georgie48

Quote
grzegorz67

Quote
Phil Good
Welcome to the Brexit Show! (Pun intended)

I know that many may think that this has nothing to do with Brexit.
O.K. in case of Thomas Cook there are some other reasons too causing the collaps.
I feel very sorry for the many people suffering from this.
But I fear that this is just the beginning.
So let's wait and see.

Just my 2 cts

Phil

See Nate's post above which is the biggest single explanation. Other things haven't helped, like the weak pound and good weather in the UK this Summer making more people than usual holiday within the UK instead. The Travel Industry has been in trouble for some time (long before Brexit) with other operators going bust before. As Nate says, it's just too easy for people to book everything separately themselves for a holiday instead of buying a whole package. The internet has enabled this.

I personally voted against Brexit and would still like us to stay but the scaremongering and doom and gloom around it is silly at times. We're over 3 years on from the vote and the economy has continued to grow and unemployment is still falling. I notice no difference in day to day life here. If you plan to visit the UK for a concert or other reasons, do not be deterred. Your money will go further with the weakened pound.

I spoke to an elder English couple in March of this year and asked them about Brexit. The man said he voted for Brexit and his wife responded by saying that he now regrets. Why? His son has (or meanwhile maybe had) a big appletree farm. Due to all the Brexit stress of the past few years all his Polish employees left and returned to Poland. Since English people "don't want to do those jobs (apple harvesting)" he had to chop hundreds of trees and a major part of the crop went lost. Father and son (who voted against Brexit) are no longer on speaking terms (my modest way of expressing the family drama). See here a hidden Brexit drama.
As Mick Jagger sang: "England Lost".

That particular sector of the economy has suffered for sure. I was displeased by the vote outcome but it's done now. We'll have to make the best of it.

In the meantime the Polish economy is getting stronger all the time so many Poles are returning home anyway. Poland is now attracting immigrants of its own to fill labour shortages, many from neighbouring Ukraine.

sad to hear about thomas cook. but the travel industry has been changing for years, holidays are all automated now as other industries are, in the future there will be fewer jobs available to people, and this in turn affects the leisure industry and hospitality.

i dont think brexit had any bearing on thomas cook collapsing, although i feel it has affected the economy, politicians have wasted millions debating this brexit deal with no outcome at all. not many people can go to their place of work for 3 years and not get a result and still keep their job. i feel no politician wants brexit, they want a 2nd vote and are all in this together. a 2nd vote would be a disaster as britain would no longer be a democracy, which leaves us in a mess everytime someone wants to dismiss the result of any vote in future.

Quote
Nate
This was always going to happen as they didn’t adjust to the market.Not many people use a travel agent these days most people book everything themselves online cutting out the middle man.

Sorry for the people that will lose their jobs and the people who’s holidays have been ruined.

Nate

I also have done my own internet bookings (generally do self catering anyway)for a considerable time.
However, for our Down Under trip it involves around twelve flights, half a dozen hotels transfers and excursions. The lady at Cook's was excellent and a face to face dialogue was definitely better for us on this occasion. Also, they came out much cheaper than the likes of Trailfinders (who are good however).
Not sure if UK politicians will seek any advantage but I understand that quite a bit of the help been given to holidaymakers caught up in all this is due to EU regulations.
These are of course the ones that Premier Johnson wants to set fire to.

Thomas Cook will not be the last one to fail.

Norwegian will be another one to fail.
Most likely to be financially restructured. They expanded too much.

I do not know Thomas Cook. By conversation in room, he impacted many including airlines.

Hopefully all left behind are faring well.

RIP

Quote
mtaylor
Thomas Cook will not be the last one to fail.

Norwegian will be another one to fail.
Most likely to be financially restructured. They expanded too much.

Norwegian have been rumoured to be in trouble for quite some time.

Travelled many times with Thomas Cook Holidays since the 70's and always found them very good value for money.
Last holiday was to Tenerife about 15 years ago but noticed then that on line price(even back then) was about £150 less for two people than the same holiday at their local travel agents shop.
Technology again, with on line shopping ,has made it tough for a lot of retailers selling anything.

technology will take most of our jobs, then what do we do.

we will live in a world where we can access almost anything at ease, live a convenient life with it, but only the few that work will benefit, the rest of us will be replaced by machines and living on scraps.

Well I confirmed my reservation, then I hopped a cab
No idea of my destination and feeling pretty bad
With my suitcase in my hand and in my head my new life
So then I told the airline girl, Well...

Get me on flight number 505
Get me on flight number 505

…………………………………………………………………… Flight 505 -- Jagger/Richards



ROCKMAN

Brexit is one factor amongst a number of others (summarised e.g. in Nate’s post above; also £1.7bn of debt didn’t help). The Brexit-related devaluation/volatility of Sterling is likely to have accelerated Thomas Cook’s demise though, but who knows whether this wouldn’t have happened at a later stage anyway.

From an economic perspective, IMHO Brexit is a massive gamble which may or may not pay off in the long term (the C-Team of the political establishment currently running things is not exactly helpful here...).

Politically, Brexit is aimed at enabling the far right and (failing that) far left to maximise their power and influence, fuelled amongst others by the emotions of the disenfranchised, or those who have been convinced by said political forces that they have been disenfranchised.

brexit might not work but its the will of the people, that shouldnt be ignored.

And after nearly 200 years in biz...wow.

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buttons67
brexit might not work but its the will of the people, that shouldnt be ignored.

I had a reply all ready... but let's not go there. US politics is enough trouble without adding our own family disagreement to the mixture.

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StonedAsiaExile
And after nearly 200 years in biz...wow.

Thomas Cook (the person) invented the concept of the travel agent, so it's kind of symbolic of the change in holiday habits that Thomas Cook the company has gone under.

If we are to believe the "Red Top" newspapers...none of the debt and mismanagement which undoubtedly contributed has prevented the senior executives from paying themselves 75m in bonuses !

Companies can and do go bust for various reasons...some of them due to circumstances rather than fault ....but chief & senior execs running off with millions in these cases is always wrong, and needs to be stopped !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-24 10:31 by Spud.

No need to blame this on politics or brexit. The company has not been able to adjust to the new markets. Just like Kodak, they were stuck with old solutions.

I am told they have a bunch of retail offices in UK. Really? Was it possible to walk into a Thomas Cook retail street office in UK? I haven't been into a travel agent office since internet came in the mid 90's. So Thomas Cook had 20 years to adapt to new solutions.

Thomas Cook was killed by people doing their own self service on internet, booking cheap flights by Easyjet, Ryanair and other airliners, and direct online hotel bookings, they did not get rid of all their staff and retail offices.

Also, a hot summer of 2018 did not help, when their business model was to reserve thousands of hotel rooms in Greece and Spain, while UK and Europe in genera did not need to travel south to have a hot summer.

In short, bad management. Too bad really.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-24 15:39 by bv.

Quote
Spud
If we are to believe the "Red Top" newspapers...none of the debt and mismanagement which undoubtedly contributed has prevented the senior executives from paying themselves 75m in bonuses !

Companies can and do go bust for various reasons...some of them due to circumstances rather than fault ....but chief & senior execs running off with millions in these cases is always wrong, and needs to be stopped !

I agree. The same thing happened with the John Towers Group and Rover. Disgraceful stuff. It's dressing up failure as success and is tantamount to deception.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-24 12:48 by grzegorz67.

Quote
bv
No need to blame this on politics or brexit. The company has not been able to adjust to the new markets. Just like Kodak, they were stuck with old solutions.

I am told they have a bunch of retail offices in UK. Really? Was it possible to walk into a Thomas Cook retail street office in UK? I haven't been into a travel agent office since internet came in the mid 90's. So Thomas Coiok had 20 years to adapt to new solutions.

Thomas Cook was killed by people doing their own self service on internet, booking cheap flights by Easyjet, Ryanar and other airliners, they did not get rid of all their staff and retail offices.

Also, a hot summer of 2018 did not help, when their business model was to prepay thousands of hotel rooms in Greece and Spain, while UK and other people did not need to travel to have a hot summer.

In short, bad management. Too bad really.

This x 100. They failed to read the market and adapt. As simple as that. Their Directors, whose responsibility was to read the market and adapt shamelessly helped themselves to tens of millions of pounds in bonuses while asleep on the job.

The truth is still that Brexit contributed in a major way to the decline and was stated as a reason by Thomas Cook during their last quarterly results call. Many English stayed in Britain this summer, instead of traveling abroad due to insecurities concerning Brexit and the weak Pound (caused by Brexit). So, yeah, underlying of course is the issue that Cook didn't adapt to the market. But without Brexit they might have had enough time to manage a turn around. In summary, Brexit did directly contribute to the company going belly up just now and I see no reason why we would try to claim Brexit had no influence at all.

In general, of course Brexit is a topic that shouldn't be discussed on here. Most old people voted for Brexit, a decision that is hard to understand by anyone under the age of 40 - and I assume people above 40 are in majority here



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-24 15:26 by Lorenz.

Quote
Lorenz
The truth is still that Brexit contributed in a major way to the decline and was stated as a reason by Thomas Cook during their last quarterly results call. Many English stayed in Britain this summer, instead of traveling abroad due to insecurities concerning Brexit and the weak Pound (caused by Brexit). So, yeah, underlying of course is the issue that Cook didn't adapt to the market. But without Brexit they might have had enough time to manage a turn around. In summary, Brexit did directly contribute to the company going belly up just now and I see no reason why we would try to claim Brexit had no influence at all.

In general, of course Brexit is a topic that shouldn't be discussed on here. Most old people voted for Brexit, a decision that is hard to understand by anyone under the age of 40 - and I assume people above 40 are in majority here

Brexit played a minor part only. England and Britain are not synonyms btw. Many badly run companies here blame Brexit when they go down. The pound's already been weak for 3+ years so why didn't they sink then? We've also had a warm Summer here, persuading many to stay at home.
The TC Directors will blame Brexit as a convenient excuse to deflect from their own incompetence and failure to read the market and adapt. Other Travel Companies have survived because they've adapted to the Internet age. TC didn't and are paying the price, or rather their staff are suffering for their Directors' failings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-24 15:40 by grzegorz67.

I think many are eager to blame whatever is happening in UK on Brexit. For political reasons, or just to explain anyhing bad or complicated.

First of all, Thomas Cook brought in a new Swiss CEO five - 5 - years ago, long time before Brexit was in discussion, to sort out their mess. He was too slow and may be it was too complicated.

Secondly the British Pound haven't changed that much, and all airliners buy fuel at the same prices, with proper currency protection.

Reading the Thomas Cook story from the past few years is a business wise tragedy. I have been running my own business for 30 years, it is so sad to see how they tried to solve their problems with growth and merging with other businesses.

When they started to loose money, big money, they started merging with other package travel companies, getting even bigger, even harder to turn around.

When a business is going in red numbers rule number one is get rid of anything you loose money on, to get the numbers into black. I would not blame it on the CEO, it must the the board of management, they are in charge.

Luckily the Norwegian, highly profitable, separate Thomas Cook corporation VING got access to flights starting today, so that they can get money and sales from their profitable part, but I do still wonder what they had in their mind, with such crazy bank loans. Certainly not getting money from Boris and the UK government!?

Bjornulf

Quote
bv
I think many are eager to blame whatever is happening in UK on Brexit. For political reasons, or just to explain anyhing bad or complicated.

First of all, Thomas Cook brought in a new Swiss CEO five - 5 - years ago, long time before Brexit was in discussion, to sort out their mess. He was too slow and may be it was too complicated.

Secondly the British Pound haven't changed that much, and all airliners buy fuel at the same prices, with proper currency protection.

Reading the Thomas Cook story from the past few years is a business wise tragedy. I have been running my own business for 30 years, it is so sad to see how they tried to solve their problems with growth and merging with other businesses.

When they started to loose money, big money, they started merging with other package travel companies, getting even bigger, even harder to turn around.

When a business is going in red numbers rule number one is get rid of anything you loose money on, to get the numbers into black. I would not blame it on the CEO, it must the the board of management, they are in charge.

Luckily the Norwegian, highly profitable, separate Thomas Cook corporation VING got access to flights starting today, so that they can get money and sales from their profitable part, but I do still wonder what they had in their mind, with such crazy bank loans. Certainly not getting money from Boris and the UK government!?

Funny enough or tragicomic - the leadership in TC made sure to pay themselves high salaries and huge bonus before going bankrupt..... Bonus for doing a bad job???