Never really cared for GHS. It felt sad and tired.
Dancing with Mr. D was ridiculous, Star Star was a Chuck Berry pastiche, Silver Train lacked the momentum of All Down the Line, Heartbreaker lacked the energy of Bitch.
It felt like they had run out of ideas.
Angie is a great song and Winter showed what a Jagger-Taylor partnership could be.
IORR while not a great album held up to repeated listenings. It didn't have a classic song, but for the most part they were definitely trying to find a sound.
Some of the songs are quite unique in their catalog -- Fingerprint File, If You Really, Time Waits for No One (again showing what Jagger could pull out of Taylor.
Dance is a great riff, at least, and Luxury has a nice groove and sense of humour.
The rockers don't work, but sometime after Exile this band stopped being able to write a classic rocker.
They have a lot of good grooves (which turned up on their next album and some B sides) and maybe if Mick and Keith were working together more they could have made those grooves into great songs, like they did a few years later with Beast of Burden.
Something defintely happened to either Keith's muse or his stamina back then.
By GHS they were not in a good state -- too many drugs, too much time operating without a home base. Can't imagine Charlie and some others fancied spending months in Jamaica.

But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-07 00:04 by Witness.

I can really identify with this post wonderboy. But let me tell you this was my very first Stones Album given as a 15th birthday present! It's all about context

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Witness
But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?

This is a perfect example of polishing the turd that is GHS.

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loog droog

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Witness
But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?

This is a perfect example of polishing the turd that is GHS.

Well, if GHS is a turd I wonder what everything that came after it is in your book.

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loog droog

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Witness
But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?

This is a perfect example of polishing the turd that is GHS.

Should I polish the turd that is your terrible opinion?

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retired_dog

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loog droog

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Witness
But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?

This is a perfect example of polishing the turd that is GHS.

Well, if GHS is a turd I wonder what everything that came after it is in your book.

Some good. Some great. Some awful.


The frustrating thing about GHS is that the raw material for a really good Stones album was there: Waiting On A Friend and Tops are first rate. Criss Cross Man is very good--but not quite there but still better than the still-born Dancing With Mr. D.

I'd love to see a reissue that re-works the whole LP, with tracks re-mixed, edited (a big problem here is that most songs overstay their welcome by a least a minute, and yes, that includes Angie) and a different track listing.

That's probably something Jimmy Miller should have done in the first place, and if he had, he wouldn't have been fired.

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DandelionPowderman

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z

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet
Keith is pretty absent on GHS I believe?

Absent? He's just as absent as Taylor was for IORR, MIA on three tracks

Yet he gets songwriting credit on everything. Let’s be honest, Richards being absent is a bigger deal than Taylor or Wyman being absent.

Taylor missed the first IORR sessions due to an “illness” (I suspect maybe some party favors on the ‘73 tour), otherwise he probably would have had bits on a few more songs.

Who knows why Richards was absent.

As you know well, Mick and Keith have a songwriting partnership. Hence Mick gets credit on Keith-songs and vice versa. Taylor never wrote songs from scratch for the Stones, as far as I know.

Yeah, I understand the partnership and why it could be considered frustrating to a new band member, especially one who worked with the very considerate John Mayall.

Perhaps the only song from scratch Taylor wrote was the riff to “Ventilator Blues”, hence the credit. It appears Taylor felt merely writing the riff wasn’t as an important of a contribution as his playing on “Sway” and “Moonlight Mike”, for instance.

I thought it was already agreed that Taylor had nothing to do with the writing of Ventilator Blues.

At least according to Taylor himself

In 1974 Taylor said he wrote the riff for “Ventilator”. Later on in life he said he was confused as to why he received credit for that when he put in way more effort into other songs.

Subscribe to Rock’s Back Pages and you’ll find some gems.

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loog droog

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Witness
But, but, but capturing into music and into an ensuing album that "Coming Down Feeling" from having fulfilled their former demanding albums after the artistic turn of their career and as such embodying a certain resulting lethargic state of mind from this long moment, does not this instead mean transforming a weakness into an asset when one experiences this more or less unified unique feel that GOATS HEAD SOUP conveys in this special way?

This is a perfect example of polishing the turd that is GHS.

Wrong year. 1986 is what you're talking about.

GOATS HEAD SOUP (1973)



First time I didn't like it that much, except for Angie and Heartbreaker. Some of the tracks are very 'thin' and very shallow. I never liked Hide Your Love, Silver Train and Star Star. Cheap production, simple lyrics, no groove, boring vibe. Still not really my favorite tracks.

BUT the other tracks grew on me. Coming down again is a real gem. That junkie sensitive voice of Keith... love it. Can you hear the music isn't their best work, but I can really feel that psychedelic 70s summer vibe.
If they only could add Tops and Waiting on a friend here. It would make this album much stronger.



IT'S ONLY ROCK N ROLL (1974)



I liked IORR little bit more than GHS. All because of Time waits for no one. That track does it for me. Totally not a typical Stones track, but so beautiful and produced very well.
I've played this album so many times. That funky wah wah groove on Fingerprint file. Soulful sounds on If you really want to be my friend, Ain't too proud to beg. Kick ass rock sounds and lyrics on If you can't rock me.
The weaker tracks are Luxury and Short and curlies. Hate those tracks. Boring.

And yes, I'm a Mick Taylor fan!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-07 18:00 by DiamondDog7.

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DiamondDog7


First time I didn't like it that much, except for Angie and Heartbreaker. Some of the tracks are very 'thin' and very shallow. I never liked Hide Your Love, Silver Train and Star Star. Cheap production, simple lyrics, no groove, boring vibe. Still not really my favorite tracks.

BUT the other tracks grew on me. Coming down again is a real gem. That junkie sensitive voice of Keith... love it. Can you hear the music isn't their best work, but I can really feel that psychedelic 70s summer vibe.
If they only could add Tops and Waiting on a friend here. It would make this album much stronger.



I liked IORR little bit more than GHS. All because of Time waits for no one. That track does it for me. Totally not a typical Stones track, but so beautiful and produced very well.
I've played this album so many times. That funky wah wah groove on Fingerprint file. Soulful sounds on If you really want to be my friend, Ain't too proud to beg. Kick ass rock sounds and lyrics on If you can't rock me.
The weaker tracks are Luxury and Short and curlies. Hate those tracks. Boring.

And yes, I'm a Mick Taylor fan!

Interesting. Hide your live I like byt it’s not a strong track. Sister of Coming down again sort of.

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DiamondDog7


First time I didn't like it that much, except for Angie and Heartbreaker. Some of the tracks are very 'thin' and very shallow. I never liked Hide Your Love, Silver Train and Star Star. Cheap production, simple lyrics, no groove, boring vibe. Still not really my favorite tracks.

BUT the other tracks grew on me. Coming down again is a real gem. That junkie sensitive voice of Keith... love it. Can you hear the music isn't their best work, but I can really feel that psychedelic 70s summer vibe.
If they only could add Tops and Waiting on a friend here. It would make this album much stronger.



I liked IORR little bit more than GHS. All because of Time waits for no one. That track does it for me. Totally not a typical Stones track, but so beautiful and produced very well.
I've played this album so many times. That funky wah wah groove on Fingerprint file. Soulful sounds on If you really want to be my friend, Ain't too proud to beg. Kick ass rock sounds and lyrics on If you can't rock me.
The weaker tracks are Luxury and Short and curlies. Hate those tracks. Boring.

And yes, I'm a Mick Taylor fan!

Interesting. Hide your live I like byt it’s not a strong track. Sister of Coming down again sort of. Ghs

iorr by a country mile.

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treaclefingers
iorr by a country mile.

It would have to be by a country mile behind!

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nick1970
Dancing with Mr d.. is just not very good..

Quite true. But the fault lies with the man who wrote the lyrics. The tune itself is classic Keith Richards -- understated but very much in the groove. His writing partner provided the daft lyrics that kill the song.

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

I always like the lyrics that conjure up supernatural demon and folklore, kind of like soul souvier the graveyard watch the death of me.

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-14 00:31 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.

That’s not true. If you dig, you can find Jimmy Miller’s recording techniques on the internet, magazines, and books. Here’s one example of micing a Leslie Speaker: [youtu.be]

Lots of Leslie on the Stones recordings with him behind the glass. Unfortunately, nobody cared to interview him in-depth many times before he passed away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-14 14:54 by TravelinMan.

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.

That’s not true. If you dig, you can find Jimmy Miller’s recording techniques on the internet, magazines, and books. Here’s one example of micing a Leslie Speaker: [youtu.be]

Lots of Leslie on the Stones recordings with him behind the glass. Unfortunately, nobody cared to interview him in-depth many times before he passed away.

On GHS.

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Meise
Both album have their highlights and weaknesses. It makes little sense to compare song to song. It's more the overall mood and expression of an album that leaves a superior feeling. Moreover, it's always individual taste in rating an album.

I always liked GHS better than IORR but wouldn't say that the latter is their worst 1970s album. B&B is worse than IORR ...

The best assessment in this thread....thank you

And not only because I agree with you.

You are considered, measured and not a crackpot trying stir up an argument.

Well done

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.

That’s not true. If you dig, you can find Jimmy Miller’s recording techniques on the internet, magazines, and books. Here’s one example of micing a Leslie Speaker: [youtu.be]

Lots of Leslie on the Stones recordings with him behind the glass. Unfortunately, nobody cared to interview him in-depth many times before he passed away.

On GHS.

Lots of Leslie on the GHS sessions, yes?

Anyhow, the man with the microphone has the strongest voice, so you will not hear much from Jimmy Miller about GHS because he was never asked. The Stones stopped listening to him as their executive producer sometime during Exile, according to Andy Johns. The way I took the Richards quote is that Miller wasn’t able to contribute in the production capacity he was used to. This does not mean he didn’t work hand in hand with the engineers constructing a sonic footprint.

Also it’s a bit strange for a Jewish man to be carving swastikas, amirite?

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.

That’s not true. If you dig, you can find Jimmy Miller’s recording techniques on the internet, magazines, and books. Here’s one example of micing a Leslie Speaker: [youtu.be]

Lots of Leslie on the Stones recordings with him behind the glass. Unfortunately, nobody cared to interview him in-depth many times before he passed away.

On GHS.

Lots of Leslie on the GHS sessions, yes?

Anyhow, the man with the microphone has the strongest voice, so you will not hear much from Jimmy Miller about GHS because he was never asked. The Stones stopped listening to him as their executive producer sometime during Exile, according to Andy Johns. The way I took the Richards quote is that Miller wasn’t able to contribute in the production capacity he was used to. This does not mean he didn’t work hand in hand with the engineers constructing a sonic footprint.

Also it’s a bit strange for a Jewish man to be carving swastikas, amirite?

Not if you're high as a kite

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro

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DandelionPowderman

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.

I'm pretty sure he was doing a lot more than that. Listen to the album. Nobody recorded drums as well as Miller. That quote is just Keith being glib.

Miller didn't record anything. He was the (co-)producer. Andy Johns mixed the album. Mikey Chung most probably set up the mics.

That’s not true. If you dig, you can find Jimmy Miller’s recording techniques on the internet, magazines, and books. Here’s one example of micing a Leslie Speaker: [youtu.be]

Lots of Leslie on the Stones recordings with him behind the glass. Unfortunately, nobody cared to interview him in-depth many times before he passed away.

On GHS.

Lots of Leslie on the GHS sessions, yes?

Anyhow, the man with the microphone has the strongest voice, so you will not hear much from Jimmy Miller about GHS because he was never asked. The Stones stopped listening to him as their executive producer sometime during Exile, according to Andy Johns. The way I took the Richards quote is that Miller wasn’t able to contribute in the production capacity he was used to. This does not mean he didn’t work hand in hand with the engineers constructing a sonic footprint.

Also it’s a bit strange for a Jewish man to be carving swastikas, amirite?

Not if you're high as a kite

stuck in his hippy mindset of the 60s

GHS is neither a turd or a beaut IMHO.
Tad overrated in some quarters thanks to the aftermath of the golden four.
The album being produced by Jimmy Miller doesn’t necessarily guarantee it is as good as the preceding titles, simple as that.

My two cents.

GHS is the sleepiest of the Jimmy Miller LPs.

IORR is the haziest of the 1970s LPs.

GHS is a Classic. IYCRM, TWFNO are the only two superior ones from IORR. Silver Train and Dancing With Mr D are the only inferior ones on GHS. GHS's sound is so special it gets you the first time and sticks until the grave. Funny thing I bought GHS in Geneva while I lived in Switzerland back in the 90's, just a couple of train stations away from where Keith lived in Montreux. Strange coincidence. Top record! I love IYCRM and Time but the rest of the record ain't nothing like GHS.

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Pietro

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nick1970
Dancing with Mr d.. is just not very good..

Quite true. But the fault lies with the man who wrote the lyrics. The tune itself is classic Keith Richards -- understated but very much in the groove. His writing partner provided the daft lyrics that kill the song.

I for one disagree. Somehow I consider (as mentionned in another thread) "Dancing with Mr D" as a "proto-gothic" song, where in another soundscape the band Bauhaus is my primary reference for the genre 'gothic music' (of a later period) in a rock context. As such, in my opinion a good song. A rock music counterpart to Walpole's novel "The Castle of Otranto" with the subtitle "Å Gothic Story" (1764), which I once read.

I like them both a lot. None of them are essential stones albums, yet, considered out of the context of the Stones catalog, they are very strong albums by all standards.

Interesting what TravelinMan noted above on the connection between Miller and the Leslie effect. In fact, the first thing that stands out on Soup is the new sound, that comes from the use of many new (for the Stones) effects (as opposed to the previous 4 albums): Leslie, Wha Wha, clavinets, etc.

C

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liddas
I like them both a lot. None of them are essential stones albums, yet, considered out of the context of the Stones catalog, they are very strong albums by all standards.

Interesting what TravelinMan noted above on the connection between Miller and the Leslie effect. In fact, the first thing that stands out on Soup is the new sound, that comes from the use of many new (for the Stones) effects (as opposed to the previous 4 albums): Leslie, Wha Wha, clavinets, etc.

C

Mikey Chung was the house engineer at Dynamic in Jamaica. Supposedly, he was instrumental in bringing in local musicians as well of suggesting new sounds.