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NICOS
Goat Head Soup won with 0,3 points....I had to relisting all the songs...........

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 8
100 Years Ago – 7
Coming Down Again – 7.5
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 7
Angie – 10
Silver Train – 9 (could be song from Exile)
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 7.5 (I always mix this one up with Moonlight Mile)
Can You Hear The Music? – 6 ( this a difficult one…never liked it back in the day’s but after 40 years I appreciate it more or less)
Star Star - 7

All sound a bit muddy and most of the songs has a predicted process especially the solo’s - 6
Production - 7
Engineering/Sound – 6
Total: 7,3


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 7
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 8
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It) – 8.5
Till the Next Goodbye – 6.5
Time Waits for No One – 7
Luxury – 6
Dance Little Sister – 7 (Exile feeling)
If You Really Want to Be My Friend – 6
Short and Curlies – 7.5 (another Exile song)
Fingerprint File – 8.0 (it sound better then I remember)

All sound a bit muddy ( maybe there is something wrong with my apparatus - 6
Production – 7.5
Engineering/Sound – 7
Total: 7,0

I'm surprised you only gave "Winter" a 7.5 rating, a lower ranking to the 8 you gave "DWMD." "Winter" is probably in my opinion the most underrated Stones song. It's absolutely beautiful and fits perfectly with the tone of GHS. Taylor's playing is out of this world. But I totally respect your personal ratings.

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JordyLicks96

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NICOS
Goat Head Soup won with 0,3 points....I had to relisting all the songs...........

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 8
100 Years Ago – 7
Coming Down Again – 7.5
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 7
Angie – 10
Silver Train – 9 (could be song from Exile)
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 7.5 (I always mix this one up with Moonlight Mile)
Can You Hear The Music? – 6 ( this a difficult one…never liked it back in the day’s but after 40 years I appreciate it more or less)
Star Star - 7

All sound a bit muddy and most of the songs has a predicted process especially the solo’s - 6
Production - 7
Engineering/Sound – 6
Total: 7,3


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 7
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 8
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It) – 8.5
Till the Next Goodbye – 6.5
Time Waits for No One – 7
Luxury – 6
Dance Little Sister – 7 (Exile feeling)
If You Really Want to Be My Friend – 6
Short and Curlies – 7.5 (another Exile song)
Fingerprint File – 8.0 (it sound better then I remember)

All sound a bit muddy ( maybe there is something wrong with my apparatus - 6
Production – 7.5
Engineering/Sound – 7
Total: 7,0

I'm surprised you only gave "Winter" a 7.5 rating, a lower ranking to the 8 you gave "DWMD." "Winter" is probably in my opinion the most underrated Stones song. It's absolutely beautiful and fits perfectly with the tone of GHS. Taylor's playing is out of this world. But I totally respect your personal ratings.

Had Winter been the only ballad on an other album it would probably stand out more, imo. On GHS it's kind of overshadowed by two other brilliant masterpieces: Coming Down Again and Angie.

...only rate im interested in is the one
linked to the pumpin' of me blood to me heart …..



ROCKMAN

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TravelinMan

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Ket
GHS is not a great record but I give the band credit for making an honest attempt to change the direction from their last 4 LP'S. It was flawed but did have a few great tracks.

IORR simply did not have any great songs, and some were just downright awful

So GHS wins but tbh black and blue is better than either of them

Except for the sobering fact that Goats Head went RIAA certified 3X platinum, while Black And Blue sold about 2 million less copies. How are we measuring better?

Black And Blue, while more interesting than most of their 80’s catalog, is the epitome of “we have to release an album to stay relevant”.

So based on your sobering fact Some Girls was by far their best studio album ever.

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JordyLicks96

Quote
NICOS
Goat Head Soup won with 0,3 points....I had to relisting all the songs...........

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 8
100 Years Ago – 7
Coming Down Again – 7.5
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 7
Angie – 10
Silver Train – 9 (could be song from Exile)
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 7.5 (I always mix this one up with Moonlight Mile)
Can You Hear The Music? – 6 ( this a difficult one…never liked it back in the day’s but after 40 years I appreciate it more or less)
Star Star - 7

All sound a bit muddy and most of the songs has a predicted process especially the solo’s - 6
Production - 7
Engineering/Sound – 6
Total: 7,3


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 7
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 8
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It) – 8.5
Till the Next Goodbye – 6.5
Time Waits for No One – 7
Luxury – 6
Dance Little Sister – 7 (Exile feeling)
If You Really Want to Be My Friend – 6
Short and Curlies – 7.5 (another Exile song)
Fingerprint File – 8.0 (it sound better then I remember)

All sound a bit muddy ( maybe there is something wrong with my apparatus - 6
Production – 7.5
Engineering/Sound – 7
Total: 7,0

I'm surprised you only gave "Winter" a 7.5 rating, a lower ranking to the 8 you gave "DWMD." "Winter" is probably in my opinion the most underrated Stones song. It's absolutely beautiful and fits perfectly with the tone of GHS. Taylor's playing is out of this world. But I totally respect your personal ratings.

7.5 isn't bad rating for a song...and yes the vibe on DWMD is great and more Stonesy ............

__________________________

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DandelionPowderman

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JordyLicks96

Quote
NICOS
Goat Head Soup won with 0,3 points....I had to relisting all the songs...........

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 8
100 Years Ago – 7
Coming Down Again – 7.5
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 7
Angie – 10
Silver Train – 9 (could be song from Exile)
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 7.5 (I always mix this one up with Moonlight Mile)
Can You Hear The Music? – 6 ( this a difficult one…never liked it back in the day’s but after 40 years I appreciate it more or less)
Star Star - 7

All sound a bit muddy and most of the songs has a predicted process especially the solo’s - 6
Production - 7
Engineering/Sound – 6
Total: 7,3


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 7
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 8
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It) – 8.5
Till the Next Goodbye – 6.5
Time Waits for No One – 7
Luxury – 6
Dance Little Sister – 7 (Exile feeling)
If You Really Want to Be My Friend – 6
Short and Curlies – 7.5 (another Exile song)
Fingerprint File – 8.0 (it sound better then I remember)

All sound a bit muddy ( maybe there is something wrong with my apparatus - 6
Production – 7.5
Engineering/Sound – 7
Total: 7,0

I'm surprised you only gave "Winter" a 7.5 rating, a lower ranking to the 8 you gave "DWMD." "Winter" is probably in my opinion the most underrated Stones song. It's absolutely beautiful and fits perfectly with the tone of GHS. Taylor's playing is out of this world. But I totally respect your personal ratings.

Had Winter been the only ballad on an other album it would probably stand out more, imo. On GHS it's kind of overshadowed by two other brilliant masterpieces: Coming Down Again and Angie.

Thanks for your excellent clarification Dandylpm.................

__________________________

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NICOS

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JordyLicks96

Quote
NICOS
Goat Head Soup won with 0,3 points....I had to relisting all the songs...........

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 8
100 Years Ago – 7
Coming Down Again – 7.5
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 7
Angie – 10
Silver Train – 9 (could be song from Exile)
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 7.5 (I always mix this one up with Moonlight Mile)
Can You Hear The Music? – 6 ( this a difficult one…never liked it back in the day’s but after 40 years I appreciate it more or less)
Star Star - 7

All sound a bit muddy and most of the songs has a predicted process especially the solo’s - 6
Production - 7
Engineering/Sound – 6
Total: 7,3


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 7
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 8
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It) – 8.5
Till the Next Goodbye – 6.5
Time Waits for No One – 7
Luxury – 6
Dance Little Sister – 7 (Exile feeling)
If You Really Want to Be My Friend – 6
Short and Curlies – 7.5 (another Exile song)
Fingerprint File – 8.0 (it sound better then I remember)

All sound a bit muddy ( maybe there is something wrong with my apparatus - 6
Production – 7.5
Engineering/Sound – 7
Total: 7,0

I'm surprised you only gave "Winter" a 7.5 rating, a lower ranking to the 8 you gave "DWMD." "Winter" is probably in my opinion the most underrated Stones song. It's absolutely beautiful and fits perfectly with the tone of GHS. Taylor's playing is out of this world. But I totally respect your personal ratings.

7.5 isn't bad rating for a song...and yes the vibe on DWMD is great and more Stonesy ............

I know that! I love seeing everyone's album ratings. It's great to read it from another person's perspective.

Give or take a few minutes, the Stones always made lps with a fairly long playing time.
What bothered me the most about Black And Blue is the lack of good songs, really.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 01:27 by SomeGuy.

when i tallied up the scores for both albums, using 2 different formats i got 2 different scores.

but iorr just shaded it, both albums are different but similar in quality.

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JordyLicks96

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retired_dog
I couldn't combine both albums into a single album because they simply have too many tracks I really love and absolutely no duds to speal of.

Instead combining those into a double album with a different track order, adding Drift Away, Through The Lonely Nights and Criss Cross Mind somewhere would be a much more interesting (and fulfilling!) task...

Keeping in mind that Tops and Waiting On A Friend are also from this era emphasizes its greatness even more imho. Also the fact that they gave I Can Feel The Fire away to Ronnie because they didn't need it/couldn't use it...

Let's face it, 1973/1974 and the Some Girls sessions were the last true creative outburts of the Stones. After that, it became increasingly repetetive...

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never given to Ronnie, it was his song. Where did you get that info from? I really wouldn't call the IORR sessions creative. They barely came out with anything past the 10 released tracks, and even so, IORR is has nothing really that special creative wise, minus "Time Waits For no One" and "Fingerprint File." The GHS and SG sessions I agree were very creative. If you listen to a lot of the UNDERCOVER sessions too, they had a lot of great stuff recorded that never came to fruition.

The IORR sessions were quite unfruitful considering “Short And Curlies” was from Goats Head, IORR wasn’t really their song, and “Ain’t....Beg” was a cover. I suppose they were originally planning a half cover/half live album.

Wasn’t “Heart Of Love” an embryonic version of “Luxury”?

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Ket

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TravelinMan

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Ket
GHS is not a great record but I give the band credit for making an honest attempt to change the direction from their last 4 LP'S. It was flawed but did have a few great tracks.

IORR simply did not have any great songs, and some were just downright awful

So GHS wins but tbh black and blue is better than either of them

Except for the sobering fact that Goats Head went RIAA certified 3X platinum, while Black And Blue sold about 2 million less copies. How are we measuring better?

Black And Blue, while more interesting than most of their 80’s catalog, is the epitome of “we have to release an album to stay relevant”.

So based on your sobering fact Some Girls was by far their best studio album ever.

If the metric is successful sales, then yes.

You said Black And Blue is a better album than GHS, but not in my opinion, nor in the opinion of record buyers.

Although, I was not one of the millions to buy Some Girls. I hear my two favorite songs from that record enough.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 03:37 by retired_dog.

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TravelinMan

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JordyLicks96

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retired_dog
I couldn't combine both albums into a single album because they simply have too many tracks I really love and absolutely no duds to speal of.

Instead combining those into a double album with a different track order, adding Drift Away, Through The Lonely Nights and Criss Cross Mind somewhere would be a much more interesting (and fulfilling!) task...

Keeping in mind that Tops and Waiting On A Friend are also from this era emphasizes its greatness even more imho. Also the fact that they gave I Can Feel The Fire away to Ronnie because they didn't need it/couldn't use it...

Let's face it, 1973/1974 and the Some Girls sessions were the last true creative outburts of the Stones. After that, it became increasingly repetetive...

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never given to Ronnie, it was his song. Where did you get that info from? I really wouldn't call the IORR sessions creative. They barely came out with anything past the 10 released tracks, and even so, IORR is has nothing really that special creative wise, minus "Time Waits For no One" and "Fingerprint File." The GHS and SG sessions I agree were very creative. If you listen to a lot of the UNDERCOVER sessions too, they had a lot of great stuff recorded that never came to fruition.

The IORR sessions were quite unfruitful considering “Short And Curlies” was from Goats Head, IORR wasn’t really their song, and “Ain’t....Beg” was a cover. I suppose they were originally planning a half cover/half live album.

Wasn’t “Heart Of Love” an embryonic version of “Luxury”?

"Heart Of Love" was definitely an embryonic version of "Luxury." Bill Wyman has stated they also worked on a song called "Labour Swing" which might be another early version for "Luxury" possibly. IORR was definitely a low point creative wise for them in the '70s. GHS had some very nice creativity, and while it didn't live up to the "Golden Age" before it, it was still a wonderful effort. It was mellow and very mature. That's why GHS is better than IORR.

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JordyLicks96

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retired_dog
I couldn't combine both albums into a single album because they simply have too many tracks I really love and absolutely no duds to speak of.

Instead combining those into a double album with a different track order, adding Drift Away, Through The Lonely Nights and Criss Cross Mind somewhere would be a much more interesting (and fulfilling!) task...

Keeping in mind that Tops and Waiting On A Friend are also from this era emphasizes its greatness even more imho. Also the fact that they gave I Can Feel The Fire away to Ronnie because they didn't need it/couldn't use it...

Let's face it, 1973/1974 and the Some Girls sessions were the last true creative outbursts of the Stones. After that, it became increasingly repetetive...

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never given to Ronnie, it was his song. Where did you get that info from? I really wouldn't call the IORR sessions creative. They barely came out with anything past the 10 released tracks, and even so, IORR is has nothing really that special creative wise, minus "Time Waits For no One" and "Fingerprint File." The GHS and SG sessions I agree were very creative. If you listen to a lot of the UNDERCOVER sessions too, they had a lot of great stuff recorded that never came to fruition.

"I Can Feel The Fire" was credited to Jagger/Richards and exchanged/traded with "IORR", also credited to Jagger/Richards, both originating from a Jagger-Wood collaboration - Jagger wanted IORR for the Stones and let Ronnie have "Fire" for his solo album. First read about that deal decades ago, maybe in Roy Carr's book?

Concerning GHS or IORR sessions being creative or not - that's why I wrote "1973/1974" (should have written "late 1972 to mid 1974"), I meant the period, not a specific album. Also keep in mind that IORR was originally conceived as a quick follow-up to GHS, consisting of one side of 1973 live recordings and one side of covers only, but quickly evolved into a full-scale original studio album because new material popped up continuously, therefore only one cover (Ain't Too Proud To Beg) finally appeared on the album while other cover songs recorded for the project (namely Drift Away and Shame, Shame, Shame) remain unreleased to this very day. So it's not exactly a case of using a cover song (Ain't Too Proud To Beg) because there was not enough original material at hand, it's quite the opposite - the original project was abandoned because more and more original material appeared that justified a full-scale original studio album. If that's not creative I don't know what is.

Concerning Undercover sessions - I disagree here that "they had a lot of great stuff recorded" - let's say they had a lot of stuff recorded that never came to fruition for a good reason: It was simply not that great...

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nick1970
Dancing with Mr d.. is just not very good..

I know. It's awesome.

Big difference.

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retired_dog


"I Can Feel The Fire" was credited to Jagger/Richards and exchanged/traded with "IORR", also credited to Jagger/Richards, both originating from a Jagger-Wood collaboration - Jagger wanted IORR for the Stones and let Ronnie have "Fire" for his solo album. First read about that deal decades ago, maybe in Roy Carr's book?

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never credited to Jagger/Richards. Yes, there was a little horse-trading over these two Jagger/Wood compositions. Ronnie got full credit on "Fire" and an "Inspiration by" on IORR.

GHS
Dancing With Mr. D – 10
100 Years Ago – 10
Coming Down Again – 10
Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker) – 10
Angie – 8
Silver Train – 6
Hide Your Love – 7
Winter – 9
Can You Hear The Music? – 9
Star Star - 10


IORR
If You Can't Rock Me – 9
Ain't Too Proud To Beg – 7
It's Only Rock 'N' Roll (But I Like It) – 6
Till The Next Goodbye – 8
Time Waits For No One – 10
Luxury – 4
Dance Little Sister – 7
If You Really Want To Be My Friend – 8
Short And Curlies – 8
Fingerprint File – 10



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-06 08:03 by GasLightStreet.

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GasLightStreet

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nick1970
Dancing with Mr d.. is just not very good..

I know. It's awesome.

Big difference.

It's so.. not very good.. that they decided to bring it out again

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SomeGuy

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GasLightStreet

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nick1970
Dancing with Mr d.. is just not very good..

I know. It's awesome.

Big difference.

It's so.. not very good.. that they decided to bring it out again

It's a huge not huge hit - it's the B-side to Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo, it's on TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE and it's on HONK! Plus a live version!

See? Plus it's the perfect opening track for a fantastic album.


Yeah yeah yeah, I know. Well, I like it. It's not, well, you know. But I like it.

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retired_dog

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JordyLicks96

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retired_dog
I couldn't combine both albums into a single album because they simply have too many tracks I really love and absolutely no duds to speak of.

Instead combining those into a double album with a different track order, adding Drift Away, Through The Lonely Nights and Criss Cross Mind somewhere would be a much more interesting (and fulfilling!) task...

Keeping in mind that Tops and Waiting On A Friend are also from this era emphasizes its greatness even more imho. Also the fact that they gave I Can Feel The Fire away to Ronnie because they didn't need it/couldn't use it...

Let's face it, 1973/1974 and the Some Girls sessions were the last true creative outbursts of the Stones. After that, it became increasingly repetetive...

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never given to Ronnie, it was his song. Where did you get that info from? I really wouldn't call the IORR sessions creative. They barely came out with anything past the 10 released tracks, and even so, IORR is has nothing really that special creative wise, minus "Time Waits For no One" and "Fingerprint File." The GHS and SG sessions I agree were very creative. If you listen to a lot of the UNDERCOVER sessions too, they had a lot of great stuff recorded that never came to fruition.

"I Can Feel The Fire" was credited to Jagger/Richards and exchanged/traded with "IORR", also credited to Jagger/Richards, both originating from a Jagger-Wood collaboration - Jagger wanted IORR for the Stones and let Ronnie have "Fire" for his solo album. First read about that deal decades ago, maybe in Roy Carr's book?

Concerning GHS or IORR sessions being creative or not - that's why I wrote "1973/1974" (should have written "late 1972 to mid 1974"), I meant the period, not a specific album. Also keep in mind that IORR was originally conceived as a quick follow-up to GHS, consisting of one side of 1973 live recordings and one side of covers only, but quickly evolved into a full-scale original studio album because new material popped up continuously, therefore only one cover (Ain't Too Proud To Beg) finally appeared on the album while other cover songs recorded for the project (namely Drift Away and Shame, Shame, Shame) remain unreleased to this very day. So it's not exactly a case of using a cover song (Ain't Too Proud To Beg) because there was not enough original material at hand, it's quite the opposite - the original project was abandoned because more and more original material appeared that justified a full-scale original studio album. If that's not creative I don't know what is.

Concerning Undercover sessions - I disagree here that "they had a lot of great stuff recorded" - let's say they had a lot of stuff recorded that never came to fruition for a good reason: It was simply not that great...

Great points. IORR would be considered a masterpiece by most rock bands, but for the Stones it’s caught between Exile and Some Girls. Personally, I think Some Girls is overrated as an album. I like the title track and the two major hits, the rest of it is a bit boring to me. I prefer Tattoo You.

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loog droog

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retired_dog


"I Can Feel The Fire" was credited to Jagger/Richards and exchanged/traded with "IORR", also credited to Jagger/Richards, both originating from a Jagger-Wood collaboration - Jagger wanted IORR for the Stones and let Ronnie have "Fire" for his solo album. First read about that deal decades ago, maybe in Roy Carr's book?

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never credited to Jagger/Richards. Yes, there was a little horse-trading over these two Jagger/Wood compositions. Ronnie got full credit on "Fire" and an "Inspiration by" on IORR.

Of course you're right. I mixed it up with "Sure The One You Need" concerning the Jagger/Richards credit.

Has to be GHS for me.

Not the very best album they ever made, but much of it still really reaches me .

With IORR , I just enjoy listening to it...and that's not the same thing.

GHS got that raw deal.
The mastering doesn't help; and sequencing. "Mr D' is a strong cut; just not the best opener. There are live mixes and rough mixes of "D" that are more fierce.
"@#$%&" sounds like it was recorded in an airless chamber underwater.
Album should have opened with "Criss Cross".

Why one versus the other? You can listen to both of them you know.

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retired_dog

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loog droog

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retired_dog


"I Can Feel The Fire" was credited to Jagger/Richards and exchanged/traded with "IORR", also credited to Jagger/Richards, both originating from a Jagger-Wood collaboration - Jagger wanted IORR for the Stones and let Ronnie have "Fire" for his solo album. First read about that deal decades ago, maybe in Roy Carr's book?

"I Can Feel The Fire" was never credited to Jagger/Richards. Yes, there was a little horse-trading over these two Jagger/Wood compositions. Ronnie got full credit on "Fire" and an "Inspiration by" on IORR.

Of course you're right. I mixed it up with "Sure The One You Need" concerning the Jagger/Richards credit.

Based on this, could "Act Together" also be included? Now that is a fine song.

"No Anchovies, Please"

GHS - 100 Years Ago - the only time Taylor was let to rip on the song with his wah wah solo. Keith probably was not around(LOL).

Can you Hear the Music - nice wah wah by Keith and great vocals by MJ.

DWMD - great lyrics by jagger. riff by Keith and that walking bass is awesome.

GHS for me, as I give Winter a 100 of 10.

GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

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Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

Yeah Jimmy Miller was great, but the real reason for the stones golden years is mostly because of Mick Taylor. He changed they dynamic of the band and took it to places it never was and hasn't been since

Quote
Pietro
GHS had the superior producer -- Jimmy Miller.

When listening to IORR I sometimes get the impression that the novice producers were learning on the job. Sometimes the Glimmer Twins didn't glimmer.

Off topic: Somebody needs to do a thorough appreciation of what Jimmy Miller meant to the Rolling Stones. It's no coincidence that the Rolling Stones' golden age coincided with Miller's tenure.

According to Keith Miller was mostly carving swastikas on the mixing desk by GHS.