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Spud

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treaclefingers

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Spud

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

You're not wrong ...cerebral processing will always make us chose something else if we then think about it ...

...but if someone wants to know what the Rolling Stones do...it's that .

errr...I think you're a potato-head spud?

I obviously haven't put that very well have I Treacle ...because you seem to have read it completely the wrong way.

I'm totally in agreement with you ...

When folks sit down and think about the Stones best songs they'll usually focus on the writing, the words and the composition ...which is fair enough ...

But if you just want the best example of that glorious noise the Stones make...Rocks Off is just that !

Is he referring to your moniker here, mate?

No Idea ...

...either or both of us are evidently a bit befuddled

[My default setting if truth be told]

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
They flanged the tape during the bridge and added tremolo to the vocals.

I don't hear an overdub though.

If you listen to the Hopkins tape you hear the drums underneath the middle 8 section. In the last bit, there's a second snare and kick pattern picking up the rythm.

Mathijs

I heard the drums underneath, I’ll listen for the pick-up. Maybe just needed to punch-in his re-entry?

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

I concur - it's absolutely one of their all time greatest songs. It's a personification of what they did. Tumbling Dice is another one, as well as Gimme Shelter, I think Heartbreaker is one, Monkey Man, Can't You Hear Me Knocking and, although the LP version may seem a bit lacking, Midnight Rambler. A few others later on, like She's So Cold and, personally, Shattered.

It's an overallness, an embrace of what it is, that makes it.

Sure, Street Fighting Man and Jumpin' Jack Flash are great ones too - they have that 'something' to them that others do - that playmanship of being a band, but perhaps they're very close to being as good as Rocks Off etc... but don't have that something that Rocks Off has: a roll to it that is unique.

yes yes yes...feeling like they're heading to an 'overload'...that the whole beautiful cacophony is about to fall off the rails yet somehow they hold it together. For me I think the reason it rarely works as well in concert. Their performance on the studio recording, like so many other classics, JJF, SSC is so good that it raises the song to a height that is higher than the actual written song.

“Tumbling Dice” and “Happy” are the most famous songs off of Exile (if not most popular and/or greatest) but to my ears, “Rocks Off” was the one song off that album that had more AM/FM radio airplay/#1 hit single potential than any other. Fantastic song, and the horns are a big reason for that. Not only are they prevalent, but they’re done in such a tasteful arrangement that it really makes the song powerful and memorable.
I’ve always wanted to hear the Baton Rouge ‘75 performance of this song just to hear how it sounds without the horns, but it’s not on YouTube and I’ve never found a copy for sale.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-29 16:50 by stevecardi.

Listening to the various versions, it sounds like they recorded the trumpet and sax into one mike, and overdubbed the trombone. In this version you can hear the sax and trumpet panned dead in the middle, and the trombone slightly to the left. Check 4:23 where the fade for the trombone is longer.

Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

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Spud

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treaclefingers

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Spud

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

You're not wrong ...cerebral processing will always make us chose something else if we then think about it ...

...but if someone wants to know what the Rolling Stones do...it's that .

errr...I think you're a potato-head spud?

I obviously haven't put that very well have I Treacle ...because you seem to have read it completely the wrong way.

I'm totally in agreement with you ...

When folks sit down and think about the Stones best songs they'll usually focus on the writing, the words and the composition ...which is fair enough ...

But if you just want the best example of that glorious noise the Stones make...Rocks Off is just that !

Is he referring to your moniker here, mate?

yes sorry, poor form on my part, it was a reference to your user name. Let's just call me a sticky mess and move on!

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

I concur - it's absolutely one of their all time greatest songs. It's a personification of what they did. Tumbling Dice is another one, as well as Gimme Shelter, I think Heartbreaker is one, Monkey Man, Can't You Hear Me Knocking and, although the LP version may seem a bit lacking, Midnight Rambler. A few others later on, like She's So Cold and, personally, Shattered.

It's an overallness, an embrace of what it is, that makes it.

Sure, Street Fighting Man and Jumpin' Jack Flash are great ones too - they have that 'something' to them that others do - that playmanship of being a band, but perhaps they're very close to being as good as Rocks Off etc... but don't have that something that Rocks Off has: a roll to it that is unique.

yes yes yes...feeling like they're heading to an 'overload'...that the whole beautiful cacophony is about to fall off the rails yet somehow they hold it together. For me I think the reason it rarely works as well in concert. Their performance on the studio recording, like so many other classics, JJF, SSC is so good that it raises the song to a height that is higher than the actual written song.

They've never played Rocks Off live worth a damn - with any trace elements of the LP version's excellence. They've managed to do that with some other songs when it's pretty damn as good as the LP version - Monkey Man for the LICKS tour was excellent, I've always loved Shattered from the VOODOO tour, possibly the closest slinkiest performance of it to the LP version instead of how they thrashed through it in 1978 and 1981-82; Midnight Rambler, of course.

For whatever reason, the essence of some songs in the studio/LP just don't come across live, partially because there's a key element missing. Like Gimme Shelter - what makes the LP version so good is it musically broods to where it conveys the sinister feeling of an impending ominous storm, it has a constant threatening looming to it - live they've just kind of played it: too fast, carpet bombing it. Which is perhaps necessary, just as they've never played IORR (or SFTD the way it is on the album, although the 1989 onward version is a bit closer) like it is on record.

One they should've never played is Heartbreaker - the studio version is full of dynamics and subtleties, live it's just a mess.

Honky Tonk Women, at least from 1975 until 1982, was better live than the studio version, because of how they changed some elements to it, but they've since put that in the ground.

JJF was incredible in 1969. By 1972 they were zinging it off and it was completely different. 1975 it became a monolithic disaster that has continued, only much cleaner and settled from 1989 onward.

Street Fighting Man, with exception to what I've heard from 1990, has always been pretty damn good, even when they sludged through it for VOODOO.

One track the studio Honky Tonk Women and listen to those horns.

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

I concur - it's absolutely one of their all time greatest songs. It's a personification of what they did. Tumbling Dice is another one, as well as Gimme Shelter, I think Heartbreaker is one, Monkey Man, Can't You Hear Me Knocking and, although the LP version may seem a bit lacking, Midnight Rambler. A few others later on, like She's So Cold and, personally, Shattered.

It's an overallness, an embrace of what it is, that makes it.

Sure, Street Fighting Man and Jumpin' Jack Flash are great ones too - they have that 'something' to them that others do - that playmanship of being a band, but perhaps they're very close to being as good as Rocks Off etc... but don't have that something that Rocks Off has: a roll to it that is unique.

yes yes yes...feeling like they're heading to an 'overload'...that the whole beautiful cacophony is about to fall off the rails yet somehow they hold it together. For me I think the reason it rarely works as well in concert. Their performance on the studio recording, like so many other classics, JJF, SSC is so good that it raises the song to a height that is higher than the actual written song.

They've never played Rocks Off live worth a damn - with any trace elements of the LP version's excellence. They've managed to do that with some other songs when it's pretty damn as good as the LP version - Monkey Man for the LICKS tour was excellent, I've always loved Shattered from the VOODOO tour, possibly the closest slinkiest performance of it to the LP version instead of how they thrashed through it in 1978 and 1981-82; Midnight Rambler, of course.

For whatever reason, the essence of some songs in the studio/LP just don't come across live, partially because there's a key element missing. Like Gimme Shelter - what makes the LP version so good is it musically broods to where it conveys the sinister feeling of an impending ominous storm, it has a constant threatening looming to it - live they've just kind of played it: too fast, carpet bombing it. Which is perhaps necessary, just as they've never played IORR (or SFTD the way it is on the album, although the 1989 onward version is a bit closer) like it is on record.

One they should've never played is Heartbreaker - the studio version is full of dynamics and subtleties, live it's just a mess.

Honky Tonk Women, at least from 1975 until 1982, was better live than the studio version, because of how they changed some elements to it, but they've since put that in the ground.

JJF was incredible in 1969. By 1972 they were zinging it off and it was completely different. 1975 it became a monolithic disaster that has continued, only much cleaner and settled from 1989 onward.

Street Fighting Man, with exception to what I've heard from 1990, has always been pretty damn good, even when they sludged through it for VOODOO.

I still believe tha RO could be done if they changed the key. Seems the Stones don't like doing this. But RO is one of those songs that is sung pretty low in the verses, and Jagger has never been able to project the melody on stage. So he has always jumped around in the melody; kind of half heartedly. Making big jumps in register. Should I go high, should I go low? That is always a sign that a singer is searching. It's too bad because RO is IMO one of the songs that IS the Stones.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

I concur - it's absolutely one of their all time greatest songs. It's a personification of what they did. Tumbling Dice is another one, as well as Gimme Shelter, I think Heartbreaker is one, Monkey Man, Can't You Hear Me Knocking and, although the LP version may seem a bit lacking, Midnight Rambler. A few others later on, like She's So Cold and, personally, Shattered.

It's an overallness, an embrace of what it is, that makes it.

Sure, Street Fighting Man and Jumpin' Jack Flash are great ones too - they have that 'something' to them that others do - that playmanship of being a band, but perhaps they're very close to being as good as Rocks Off etc... but don't have that something that Rocks Off has: a roll to it that is unique.

yes yes yes...feeling like they're heading to an 'overload'...that the whole beautiful cacophony is about to fall off the rails yet somehow they hold it together. For me I think the reason it rarely works as well in concert. Their performance on the studio recording, like so many other classics, JJF, SSC is so good that it raises the song to a height that is higher than the actual written song.

They've never played Rocks Off live worth a damn - with any trace elements of the LP version's excellence. They've managed to do that with some other songs when it's pretty damn as good as the LP version - Monkey Man for the LICKS tour was excellent, I've always loved Shattered from the VOODOO tour, possibly the closest slinkiest performance of it to the LP version instead of how they thrashed through it in 1978 and 1981-82; Midnight Rambler, of course.

For whatever reason, the essence of some songs in the studio/LP just don't come across live, partially because there's a key element missing. Like Gimme Shelter - what makes the LP version so good is it musically broods to where it conveys the sinister feeling of an impending ominous storm, it has a constant threatening looming to it - live they've just kind of played it: too fast, carpet bombing it. Which is perhaps necessary, just as they've never played IORR (or SFTD the way it is on the album, although the 1989 onward version is a bit closer) like it is on record.

One they should've never played is Heartbreaker - the studio version is full of dynamics and subtleties, live it's just a mess.

Honky Tonk Women, at least from 1975 until 1982, was better live than the studio version, because of how they changed some elements to it, but they've since put that in the ground.

JJF was incredible in 1969. By 1972 they were zinging it off and it was completely different. 1975 it became a monolithic disaster that has continued, only much cleaner and settled from 1989 onward.

Street Fighting Man, with exception to what I've heard from 1990, has always been pretty damn good, even when they sludged through it for VOODOO.

I still believe tha RO could be done if they changed the key. Seems the Stones don't like doing this. But RO is one of those songs that is sung pretty low in the verses, and Jagger has never been able to project the melody on stage. So he has always jumped around in the melody; kind of half heartedly. Making big jumps in register. Should I go high, should I go low? That is always a sign that a singer is searching. It's too bad because RO is IMO one of the songs that IS the Stones.

It suits Mick's voice now, but it took a while

Tune down 1/2 step for example many bands like GNR tuned down 1/2 step its easier for the singer to sing the song.

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OpenG
Tune down 1/2 step for example many bands like GNR tuned down 1/2 step its easier for the singer to sing the song.

At 76, Mick's voice is now down 1/2 step

The arrangement on this song is just fantastic. Also one of the few stones songs on rexord better than live

A lot of things went into that sound.
First, they had two great horn players basically on standby. They gave them the freedom to write their own parts. Somebody -- probably Jimmy Miller -- put them in front of a microphone. Again, somebody -- probably Miller, maybe Keith -- heard the playbacks and realized what they had. And whatever they did in Los Angeles probably was important, too.
One thing I wonder is where did Jim and Bobby stay during the Nellcotte sessions. Were they crashing at the house? And how did that happen -- were they on the payroll, was somebody in the Stones business office responsible for sending the airline tickets or cutting them checks.
It all seems very chaotic by today's recording standards, but somehow the Stones navigated that type of atmostphere.

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wonderboy
A lot of things went into that sound.
First, they had two great horn players basically on standby. They gave them the freedom to write their own parts. Somebody -- probably Jimmy Miller -- put them in front of a microphone. Again, somebody -- probably Miller, maybe Keith -- heard the playbacks and realized what they had. And whatever they did in Los Angeles probably was important, too.
One thing I wonder is where did Jim and Bobby stay during the Nellcotte sessions. Were they crashing at the house? And how did that happen -- were they on the payroll, was somebody in the Stones business office responsible for sending the airline tickets or cutting them checks.
It all seems very chaotic by today's recording standards, but somehow the Stones navigated that type of atmostphere.

I know the living arrangements are all chronicled in books. Cant remember them off hand. But I;m pretty sure they all officially had their own places. Many war stories about the guys navigating those treacherous winding mountain roads. And it seems like they were all atrocious drivers. And very high.

Weren’t Andy Johns and Jim Price sharing a place? That’s where Johns returned to for the night when Richards fell asleep but woke up and called him wondering where he went. Johns came back and they laid down the second rhythm guitar on “Rocks Off”

This is a song I didn't like right off the bat. It's quite different than the opening songs on the other 3 of the big 4. But it has grown on me and I now appreciate it's brilliance. The horns are crucial. The VL tour versions are not too shabby. At the time I liked the licks tour versions but I"m afraid to go back and listen now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-31 07:03 by ryanpow.

It's one of those songs that it's fantastic that they play it. Absolutely. Listening to live versions from 1994 onward, it's just OK. Mick sings it different every tour.

It just doesn't have the essence - at all - of the original. Whatever. I'd rather hear a mild slaughtering of Rocks Off than 14 minutes of Miss You any night.

Talking live versions, I don’t really like it after the 70s. Their live versions usually eclipse the studio tracks, but not RO after the 70s.

JumpingKentFlash

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GasLightStreet
It's one of those songs that it's fantastic that they play it. Absolutely. Listening to live versions from 1994 onward, it's just OK. Mick sings it different every tour.

It just doesn't have the essence - at all - of the original. Whatever. I'd rather hear a mild slaughtering of Rocks Off than 14 minutes of Miss You any night.

"hehe, "Mild slaughtering". true that. A bad Stones song still beats 99% of good anyone else.

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wonderboy

One thing I wonder is where did Jim and Bobby stay during the Nellcotte sessions. Were they crashing at the house?

Jim And Bobby shared a house close to Nellcote, along the water on Avenue de Grasseuil. If you visit Nellcote and walk over to see the famous Villa Ephrussi de Rothschild on Cap Ferrat, you will pass by it.