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Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: August 26, 2019 00:57

The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

JumpingKentFlash

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: August 26, 2019 01:06

I am going to guess that the horns may have been attempted in France but they were redone in Los Angeles.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: August 26, 2019 01:41

according to Nico Nzentgraf they cut the second take for Exile with bobby on tenor and jim price on "on trumpet and/or trombone"
magic moment

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: August 26, 2019 01:42

Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. It sounds as if the horn parts are multi-tracked (layered) to give the effect of a larger brass section.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-26 17:29 by TornAndFried.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: August 26, 2019 09:56

Brilliant. Thats what.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 26, 2019 10:14

The horns …….. Walls Of Jericho stuff if ya ask me …..



ROCKMAN

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 26, 2019 11:51

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. Their parts were overdubbed and multi-tracked (layered) at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles

All the horns were recorded at Olympic and Nellcote. At Sunset only Jagger, Richards and Taylor were there to overdub vocals, bass and some piano and guitar.

Mathijs

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: RobberBride ()
Date: August 26, 2019 11:55

Quote
TornAndFried

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. Their parts were overdubbed and multi-tracked (layered) at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles

Clarification:
We have substantial biographical documentation and photographic evidence many horn parts were arranged, rehearsed and recorded at Nellcote. However, the sources do not state on exactly which tracks (though the above seems obvious candidates).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-26 11:56 by RobberBride.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: August 26, 2019 16:42

But Dr. Johns people were in LA as well (bvox, percussion . .)

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 26, 2019 16:53

Quote
RobberBride
Quote
TornAndFried

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. Their parts were overdubbed and multi-tracked (layered) at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles

Clarification:
We have substantial biographical documentation and photographic evidence many horn parts were arranged, rehearsed and recorded at Nellcote. However, the sources do not state on exactly which tracks (though the above seems obvious candidates).

No horns, but we know Jim Price said he played organ on "Torn And Frayed" in Nellcote, so that was definitely recorded there. He said he was in a secluded room dabbling on the B3 through the many takes of the song and was surprised when they used it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-26 16:55 by TravelinMan.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: August 26, 2019 17:25

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. Their parts were overdubbed and multi-tracked (layered) at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles

All the horns were recorded at Olympic and Nellcote. At Sunset only Jagger, Richards and Taylor were there to overdub vocals, bass and some piano and guitar.
Mathijs

I have seen photos of Keys and Price at Nellcôte and know they arranged and recorded horns there but assumed most of their parts were either added later at Sunset (or Olympic) or re-recorded to improve sound quality. In any case it sounds as if the horn parts on Rocks Off are multi-tracked to give the effect of a larger brass section.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-26 17:27 by TornAndFried.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: August 26, 2019 17:49

For a clearer picture of the horn parts on Rocks Off (and the 3-guitar interplay between Keith and Mick Taylor and the great piano playing of Nicky Hopkins) check out this instrumental only version. [m.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-26 21:13 by TornAndFried.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: z ()
Date: August 26, 2019 18:47

That bridge is genius...

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: August 26, 2019 20:25

Always loved the horn playing G# over the E major at the start of the chorus.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: August 26, 2019 20:28

the best

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TurningToGold2 ()
Date: August 27, 2019 01:20

I think the "Nicky Hopkins tape" indicates the horns were done at Nelcotte. Nicky was at Nelcotte, but he apparently wasn't in L.A. The tape that Nicky had, that surfaced a few years ago, has prominent horns on many of the instrumental tracks.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 27, 2019 05:53

This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 27, 2019 11:36

Nice observation that the horns could be double tracked. I wasn't aware of this, I always thought it sounded so grand due to the fact they are playing octaves and Keys always plays a bit out if tune. They get the same sound live.

Ps there are several comments from Keys, Price, Miller and Glyn Johns that all the horns were done at Nellcote.

Mathijs

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 27, 2019 14:53

Quote
TurningToGold2
I think the "Nicky Hopkins tape" indicates the horns were done at Nelcotte. Nicky was at Nelcotte, but he apparently wasn't in L.A. The tape that Nicky had, that surfaced a few years ago, has prominent horns on many of the instrumental tracks.

“Shine A Light” is not part of the Hopkins tapes, correct?

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Date: August 27, 2019 15:34

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. It sounds as if the horn parts are multi-tracked (layered) to give the effect of a larger brass section.

Aren't there more horn songs on 'Exile'? "Loving Cup"? "Hip Shake"? Several Sax only songs. I can't recall - does 'Soul Survivor" have them? At the end when the skies open up?

The one word that the horns in "Rocks Off" always make me think of is 'exuberant'. The song is one of the Stones' very best, because it drives, has great lyrics, and a strong melody. But it is the horns that lift it up to something beautiful. They remind me of those very early Beatles harmonies; just irresistible; when you'd hear Paul's high harmonies on "Please pleee-se me whoah yeah like I pleeze yoooo".
I wonder if they double tracked the horns back then. Nowadays for sure. I always assumed they had not; because the performers were just that good. And on outtakes one can hear the individual horns, which tend to become more of a wash on stacked horns. Also the quality sounds pretty pristine. With them counting tracks back then, wouldn't they have had to ping them down, if doubled, or even tripled? They don't really sound pinged. But...

Edit - Exile was 16 tracks, right? I was just counting tracks. I think they would have had enough tracks to double them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-27 15:51 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: peoplewitheyes ()
Date: August 27, 2019 17:11

I though the horns on Soul Survivor were only audible on that Keith 'singing' outtake version from Exile delux.

I don't think you can hear them on the regular released version of SS.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: August 27, 2019 17:18

Anyone who loves the horns of Keys and Price on this should check out their work on the live Delaney and Bonnie album.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 27, 2019 17:48

It’s interesting what you can hear on the Hopkins Tapes due to the wide stereo mix. On “Rip This Joint” you can clearly hear two rhythm guitars spread out, whereas the album mix is so narrow the two parts are indistinguishable; the main part is mixed louder. It does give the song a more “old school” feel and center balanced.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: August 27, 2019 17:58

Quote
treaclefingers
This song is genius...I think it could be their best song, certainly best song not released as a single.

You're not wrong ...cerebral processing will always make us chose something else if we then think about it ...

...but if someone wants to know what the Rolling Stones do...it's that .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-27 18:00 by Spud.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: August 27, 2019 18:19

Another side of the appeal of the song is the "faded out early" MT solo at the very end of the track. If MT had a say in the miing of RO he would have let hear the solo loud and clear which would have made the song a bit longer.

But Mick or Keef decided the track would be more potent with a outro solo that seems to vanish as soon as it's being heard.

Genius... thumbs up

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 27, 2019 18:31

Quote
dcba
Another side of the appeal of the song is the "faded out early" MT solo at the very end of the track. If MT had a say in the miing of RO he would have let hear the solo loud and clear which would have made the song a bit longer.

But Mick or Keef decided the track would be more potent with a outro solo that seems to vanish as soon as it's being heard.

Genius... thumbs up

Or it was done due to time constraints. They let him open up on “Casino Boogie” though.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Date: August 27, 2019 18:41

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. It sounds as if the horn parts are multi-tracked (layered) to give the effect of a larger brass section.

Aren't there more horn songs on 'Exile'? "Loving Cup"? "Hip Shake"? Several Sax only songs. I can't recall - does 'Soul Survivor" have them? At the end when the skies open up?

The one word that the horns in "Rocks Off" always make me think of is 'exuberant'. The song is one of the Stones' very best, because it drives, has great lyrics, and a strong melody. But it is the horns that lift it up to something beautiful. They remind me of those very early Beatles harmonies; just irresistible; when you'd hear Paul's high harmonies on "Please pleee-se me whoah yeah like I pleeze yoooo".
I wonder if they double tracked the horns back then. Nowadays for sure. I always assumed they had not; because the performers were just that good. And on outtakes one can hear the individual horns, which tend to become more of a wash on stacked horns. Also the quality sounds pretty pristine. With them counting tracks back then, wouldn't they have had to ping them down, if doubled, or even tripled? They don't really sound pinged. But...

Edit - Exile was 16 tracks, right? I was just counting tracks. I think they would have had enough tracks to double them.

Ventilator Blues has horns. Very cool arrangement.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Date: August 27, 2019 18:53

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
The horns on RO are brilliant. It’s got that over the top sleazy brass ring that really lifts the song to another level. I was checking the personnel and I only see Jim Price and Bobby. Did they really do that monumental wall of sound with only two people? Or was the horns layered?

Keys and Price are doing all the horns on Rocks Off, Ventilator Blues,Tumbling Dice, Happy, Let It Loose and All Down The Line. It sounds as if the horn parts are multi-tracked (layered) to give the effect of a larger brass section.

Aren't there more horn songs on 'Exile'? "Loving Cup"? "Hip Shake"? Several Sax only songs. I can't recall - does 'Soul Survivor" have them? At the end when the skies open up?

The one word that the horns in "Rocks Off" always make me think of is 'exuberant'. The song is one of the Stones' very best, because it drives, has great lyrics, and a strong melody. But it is the horns that lift it up to something beautiful. They remind me of those very early Beatles harmonies; just irresistible; when you'd hear Paul's high harmonies on "Please pleee-se me whoah yeah like I pleeze yoooo".
I wonder if they double tracked the horns back then. Nowadays for sure. I always assumed they had not; because the performers were just that good. And on outtakes one can hear the individual horns, which tend to become more of a wash on stacked horns. Also the quality sounds pretty pristine. With them counting tracks back then, wouldn't they have had to ping them down, if doubled, or even tripled? They don't really sound pinged. But...

Edit - Exile was 16 tracks, right? I was just counting tracks. I think they would have had enough tracks to double them.

Ventilator Blues has horns. Very cool arrangement.

Isn't it odd how some of the best musicians, everyone, can have a blank spot on a part, or just some kind of mindf*ck that seems simple to everyone else? Like Charlie on some songs. he's one of the best drummers ever but the slightly unorthodox pattern on snare ( for Ventilator by Bobby) eludes him.

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: August 27, 2019 19:54

What became of Jim Price?

Re: Rocks Off - The horns
Posted by: lougio ()
Date: August 27, 2019 20:09

I know this would inconvenience many people but no more so than any other date change. The absolute best and safest move for everyone would be to move the show up to Friday night if that is a all possible. We could all see the show and get out before the storm shows up.

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