Tell Me :
Talk
Is that this one you're talking about?
[www.discogs.com]
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mono, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 13:28 by TheflyingDutchman.
Yes ! - and a funny thing is, that it still is presented here as legit and official.
This release can also be found on Popsike and other auction-result sites, - and nowhere it is mentioned to be a Bootleg.
It´s pretty good made !
Yeah! Unfortunately the boots are best
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 14:25 by TheflyingDutchman.
As by yourself: [iorr.org] ?
Maybe it's better to edit previous posts to prevent further misleading informations if there has something turned out as mistake ....
I totally agree ! - and can only say that I am sorry ! - Well, - a collector story in a nutshell. Bought my copy on Discogs around 2012, - looked at it, - played it a couple of times, - and put it on the shelf.
This thread reminded me of it, - and I was - in my memory - convinced that it was an official release . . . .
It is now obvious to me that it isn't . . . .
One of us has to correct the Discogs listing . . ;-)
Regarding editing earlier posts, I don't find that needed.
Everybody is free to read the development in the posts, - and I personally think, that I have made myself clear on this subject.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
That's quite a logical conclusion. Problem can also be the lack of footage, so they indeed had to go into this inevitable production.
As someone who has mixed in surround sound (quadraphonic is another name for it) and standard stereo, it sounds to me like they folded down the surround mix from four channels into just two for stereo. Usually, an engineer will create a separate and dedicated stereo mix as well.
But these are two DIFFERENT recordings. Your's is a soundboard recording from Philly, used for either the radio broadcast or the unofficial live album, the one I am talking about is the L&G recording from Forth Worth.
The soundboard recordings sound fine with good stereo separation, even though they are lacking in bass and warmth due to the fact that they are a couple of generations away from the master. The L&G source is just a not good recording, with the stereo image squashed, the guitars hardly audible mono, and the drums overpowering while still sounding bland and boomy.
What I don't understand is that all the Fort Worth and Houston shows were recorded in fantastic stereo, as eveidenced by the Ahmet Ertugen release. I have no clue why they didn't use these masters for the L&G release.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-01 11:16 by Mathijs.
I agree. Indeed they would.
I saw the first L&G VHS copy in the early/midd 8-tees, our TV was mono at the time. Everything was loud and clear, not good but ok. . I don't know if the original source was as bad as you say here, I have never heard it, but that seems very unlikely to me. . At the time I didn't recognise it's historical value. I wish I still had it.
It sounded something like this, what do you hear (below): A telecaster / Les Paul and Ampegs at it's finest, even with mediocre sound quality. Listen to Happy L&G the last release, what do you hear? Plastic sounding guitars.That's all for now.
Happy '72
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 21:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
Indeed they should!!!!
I have about 15 different releases on vinyl and CD, and still have the old VHS tapes, and they all have the very same bad quality to them. The official release is the best release. Unfortunately.
Mathijs
Didn't VideoJames reveal here at IORR that along with director Rollin Binzer he turned every stone to find the original tapes. To no avail.
Pittsburgh comes close to the true '72 feel. It's one of the best recordings (the mix/instrument separation) from the tour along with parts of the two Fort Worth shows. (I like Philadelphia too, but in my opinion it suffers from too much audiens noise and reverb) BTW. YCAGWYW from Pittsburgh is wonderful
and it's great to hear all of them blended into the mix. Even the guys on rythm instruments, (congas and bread). The horns and piano way up there. A good concert too -love it
Look here :
[iorr.org]
VJ : "The L & G negatives were stored in a place that they are no longer there. There are various prints around but the actual negatives right now or rather when I was talking with Rollin were no where to be found, and believe me they looked"
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TumblinDice76
()
Date: July 31, 2019 03:48
If I'm not mistaken, didn't they record almost every show in '72? How did they not get any of them correct?
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: July 31, 2019 07:52
Quote
HenrikBB
If it is the Eagle Rock Entertainment-release we are talking about, it is official !
ERELP 815/1-2 was released 2010 as double vinyl, and was for 6 years the only official release of the soundtrack, - the CD came in 2017
Is that this one you're talking about?
[www.discogs.com]
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: July 31, 2019 12:10
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 31, 2019 12:48
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mono, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 13:24
Quote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 13:28 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
HenrikBB
()
Date: July 31, 2019 13:27
Quote
kowalskiQuote
HenrikBB
If it is the Eagle Rock Entertainment-release we are talking about, it is official !
ERELP 815/1-2 was released 2010 as double vinyl, and was for 6 years the only official release of the soundtrack, - the CD came in 2017
Is that this one you're talking about?
[www.discogs.com]
Yes ! - and a funny thing is, that it still is presented here as legit and official.
This release can also be found on Popsike and other auction-result sites, - and nowhere it is mentioned to be a Bootleg.
It´s pretty good made !
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: July 31, 2019 13:51
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
Yeah! Unfortunately the boots are best
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 31, 2019 14:09
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 14:17
Quote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 14:25 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: July 31, 2019 14:55
Quote
HenrikBB
Yes ! - and a funny thing is, that it still is presented here as legit and official.
As by yourself: [iorr.org] ?
Maybe it's better to edit previous posts to prevent further misleading informations if there has something turned out as mistake ....
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
HenrikBB
()
Date: July 31, 2019 15:39
Quote
IrixQuote
HenrikBB
Yes ! - and a funny thing is, that it still is presented here as legit and official.
As by yourself: [iorr.org] ?
Maybe it's better to edit previous posts to prevent further misleading informations if there has something turned out as mistake ....
I totally agree ! - and can only say that I am sorry ! - Well, - a collector story in a nutshell. Bought my copy on Discogs around 2012, - looked at it, - played it a couple of times, - and put it on the shelf.
This thread reminded me of it, - and I was - in my memory - convinced that it was an official release . . . .
It is now obvious to me that it isn't . . . .
One of us has to correct the Discogs listing . . ;-)
Regarding editing earlier posts, I don't find that needed.
Everybody is free to read the development in the posts, - and I personally think, that I have made myself clear on this subject.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 15:47
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 16:09
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
That's quite a logical conclusion. Problem can also be the lack of footage, so they indeed had to go into this inevitable production.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 31, 2019 16:44
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
As someone who has mixed in surround sound (quadraphonic is another name for it) and standard stereo, it sounds to me like they folded down the surround mix from four channels into just two for stereo. Usually, an engineer will create a separate and dedicated stereo mix as well.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: July 31, 2019 16:50
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
But these are two DIFFERENT recordings. Your's is a soundboard recording from Philly, used for either the radio broadcast or the unofficial live album, the one I am talking about is the L&G recording from Forth Worth.
The soundboard recordings sound fine with good stereo separation, even though they are lacking in bass and warmth due to the fact that they are a couple of generations away from the master. The L&G source is just a not good recording, with the stereo image squashed, the guitars hardly audible mono, and the drums overpowering while still sounding bland and boomy.
What I don't understand is that all the Fort Worth and Houston shows were recorded in fantastic stereo, as eveidenced by the Ahmet Ertugen release. I have no clue why they didn't use these masters for the L&G release.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-01 11:16 by Mathijs.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 17:26
Quote
TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
As someone who has mixed in surround sound (quadraphonic is another name for it) and standard stereo, it sounds to me like they folded down the surround mix from four channels into just two for stereo. Usually, an engineer will create a separate and dedicated stereo mix as well.
I agree. Indeed they would.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: July 31, 2019 18:29
I listen to the Royal Dragon Soundboard the most from the 72/73 boots - the instruments are up front and center and the guitars are in your face.
[www.youtube.com]
The Rolling Stones - Pittsburgh PA 1972-07-22, The Royal Dragon Stereo-Soundboard Full Album (2019)
[www.youtube.com]
The Rolling Stones - Pittsburgh PA 1972-07-22, The Royal Dragon Stereo-Soundboard Full Album (2019)
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 31, 2019 19:31
Quote
Mathijs
The L&G source is just a not good recording, with the stereo image squashed, the guitars hardly audible mono, and the drums overpowering while still sounding bland and boomy.
Mathijs
I saw the first L&G VHS copy in the early/midd 8-tees, our TV was mono at the time. Everything was loud and clear, not good but ok. . I don't know if the original source was as bad as you say here, I have never heard it, but that seems very unlikely to me. . At the time I didn't recognise it's historical value. I wish I still had it.
It sounded something like this, what do you hear (below): A telecaster / Les Paul and Ampegs at it's finest, even with mediocre sound quality. Listen to Happy L&G the last release, what do you hear? Plastic sounding guitars.That's all for now.
Happy '72
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-31 21:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: July 31, 2019 23:52
What's the older 1972 Pittsburgh bootleg with the great guitar separation?
I listened to a newer version today and I didn't think it was that great.
I listened to a newer version today and I didn't think it was that great.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: August 1, 2019 00:39
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
As someone who has mixed in surround sound (quadraphonic is another name for it) and standard stereo, it sounds to me like they folded down the surround mix from four channels into just two for stereo. Usually, an engineer will create a separate and dedicated stereo mix as well.
I agree. Indeed they would.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: August 1, 2019 00:40
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TravelinManQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
The early copies in the eighties sounded much better.
No they didn't. The official release is the best, even though it still isn't very good.
Mathijs
Matter of taste then. To me on the official release the guitars sound completely castrated. Like they put plastic foil over it. That producer is quite a control freak
I agree with you on the quality of the official release. But I just listened to half a dozen boots, both on vynil and CD, and they all sounded worse than the official release.
The problem is that the guitars are recorded in mon, and are drowned out by a quite terrible sound representation of the drums. Boxy, boomy, harsh. All the old releases sound quite the same as the official release, but then with more hiss, fluttering and awkward stereo image.
Mathijs
What do you mean by "the guitars are recorded in mono"? Here's a recording of the same tour, just soundboard. It's like you're in the venue, no
plastic foil. It's as pure as it can be. If you mess with it like they did on the official release, to me the magic has gone, too slick . Again,a matter of taste.
Tarrant County Convention Center '72
But that's not what we are discussing here. The discussion is about the official release, which is quite bad sounding on all releases, official and bootleg.
The recording above is supposedly from sessions for the unreleased offical album, and some tracks feature guitar and vocal overdubs. Then there's the Philly Special radio recordings of the three Philly shows, which are in fine stereo but to date all releases are from third or fourth generation copies. The original first generation recordings are yet to be found. There's also the , in my opinion best recording, the soundboard recording from the second Fort Worth show, back then released as Ahmet Artegun We Thank You or something.
Then there is he bad sounding Pittsburgh soundboard, and parts of New York last show of course.
Mathijs
The best recording remains
Sure, this is not the official release. All I want to point out is that the way they edited the official sounds slick to me, I like the raw versions -like I posted -better. The natural dynamics are still there. Don't you hear that unnatural compression on the official? It's worse than the boot I posted, imo. The official's footage, that's what makes L&G more attractive, not the sound quality.
Something must have happened in the recording/mixing process for the quadrophonic sound That L&G must be a turd that cannot be polished. They should have used different shows, imo. It sounds like they didn't have the opportunity to mix isolated tracks on the official release.
As someone who has mixed in surround sound (quadraphonic is another name for it) and standard stereo, it sounds to me like they folded down the surround mix from four channels into just two for stereo. Usually, an engineer will create a separate and dedicated stereo mix as well.
I agree. Indeed they would.
Indeed they should!!!!
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 1, 2019 00:44
I don't think they can. They probably don't have the tapes. Or else they wouldn't have given us such a lousy product in the first place.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: August 1, 2019 00:54
What lousy product indeed. Here a review of a great poster on IORR.org, he attended the first cinema presentation of L&G back in '74 :
Turd on the run [iorr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-01 01:20 by TheflyingDutchman.
Turd on the run [iorr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-08-01 01:20 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 1, 2019 11:24
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Mathijs
The L&G source is just a not good recording, with the stereo image squashed, the guitars hardly audible mono, and the drums overpowering while still sounding bland and boomy.
Mathijs
I saw the first L&G VHS copy in the early/midd 8-tees, our TV was mono at the time. Everything was loud and clear, not good but ok. . I don't know if the original source was as bad as you say here, I have never heard it, but that seems very unlikely to me. . At the time I didn't recognise it's historical value. I wish I still had it.
It sounded something like this, what do you hear (below): A telecaster / Les Paul and Ampegs at it's finest, even with mediocre sound quality. Listen to Happy L&G the last release, what do you hear? Plastic sounding guitars.That's all for now.
Happy '72
I have about 15 different releases on vinyl and CD, and still have the old VHS tapes, and they all have the very same bad quality to them. The official release is the best release. Unfortunately.
Mathijs
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: August 1, 2019 14:55
Quote
DandelionPowderman
They probably don't have the tapes.
Didn't VideoJames reveal here at IORR that along with director Rollin Binzer he turned every stone to find the original tapes. To no avail.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: August 1, 2019 15:05
I find that hard to believe. Probably Allan Klein related issues.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: August 1, 2019 18:02
Quote
OpenG
I listen to the Royal Dragon Soundboard the most from the 72/73 boots - the instruments are up front and center and the guitars are in your face.
[www.youtube.com]
The Rolling Stones - Pittsburgh PA 1972-07-22, The Royal Dragon Stereo-Soundboard Full Album (2019)
Pittsburgh comes close to the true '72 feel. It's one of the best recordings (the mix/instrument separation) from the tour along with parts of the two Fort Worth shows. (I like Philadelphia too, but in my opinion it suffers from too much audiens noise and reverb) BTW. YCAGWYW from Pittsburgh is wonderful
and it's great to hear all of them blended into the mix. Even the guys on rythm instruments, (congas and bread). The horns and piano way up there. A good concert too -love itRe: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: August 1, 2019 18:25
S.T.P. - more information on Royal Dragon and Plane Sex on the way to Pittsburg.
This new release from Japan presents the Stones Pittsburgh 72 concert in soundboard quality and it can surely be called an upgrade; this show was released at firsat on tape but had an atrocious sound quality, then on Sweet s Virginia s Saturday Night Smelter Blues (Esky Product Esky 003) came a combination of audience (tracks 1-11) and soundboard (tracks 12-17). On compact it was released as An American Affair (VGP 083) that had Sweet Virginia coming from Ft.Worth 1972 2nd concert, replaced with the original version on The Royal Dragon (VGP 083) the only case of a reissue from VGP with different title and cover, but porting the same catalogue number. Then it came out as Plane Sex On The Way to Pittsburgh (Montserrat BRCD 1911) where Street Fighting Man was sourced from Sydney 27 February 73 and as Work Sucks Let s Go On Tour Vol.4 (A RS Boot Tree); later we got Pittsburgh 72 (Cellar Dweller 070719170). All these titles had a complete set but with Street Fighting Man fading out. All Down The Line from this show can be found on Washington 1972 (IMP CD 043-44) and the band s introduction can be found on Very Ancient, Thanks You Kindly (Scorpio 30). This recording has always been suffering from hiss and been pretty rough at the beginning for a couple of minutes when some engineer seems to be adjusting knobs but this version is better than before; regardless of a bit of distortion in the first few seconds of Brown Sugar and no audible hiss; each guitar is given its channel so it is easy to distinguish and follow Richards and Taylor on each song. The concert followed the famous Philadelphia three shows in two days and portrays the same energy and committed playing from all musicians involved. Just before Love In Vain Jagger jokes: It s very nice to be back in Pittsburgh, we haven t been here since 1956! This is a typical 72 US Tour concert with great solos from Taylor (introduced as The Lady with the Lipstick On) especially on Love In Vain and a rowdy Midnight Rambler that is driven by Richards frantic guitar work and embellished by Nicky Hopkins piano that at times gets its way upfront. Street Fighting Man unfortunately fades out here as well after 1.24 minutes.
This new release from Japan presents the Stones Pittsburgh 72 concert in soundboard quality and it can surely be called an upgrade; this show was released at firsat on tape but had an atrocious sound quality, then on Sweet s Virginia s Saturday Night Smelter Blues (Esky Product Esky 003) came a combination of audience (tracks 1-11) and soundboard (tracks 12-17). On compact it was released as An American Affair (VGP 083) that had Sweet Virginia coming from Ft.Worth 1972 2nd concert, replaced with the original version on The Royal Dragon (VGP 083) the only case of a reissue from VGP with different title and cover, but porting the same catalogue number. Then it came out as Plane Sex On The Way to Pittsburgh (Montserrat BRCD 1911) where Street Fighting Man was sourced from Sydney 27 February 73 and as Work Sucks Let s Go On Tour Vol.4 (A RS Boot Tree); later we got Pittsburgh 72 (Cellar Dweller 070719170). All these titles had a complete set but with Street Fighting Man fading out. All Down The Line from this show can be found on Washington 1972 (IMP CD 043-44) and the band s introduction can be found on Very Ancient, Thanks You Kindly (Scorpio 30). This recording has always been suffering from hiss and been pretty rough at the beginning for a couple of minutes when some engineer seems to be adjusting knobs but this version is better than before; regardless of a bit of distortion in the first few seconds of Brown Sugar and no audible hiss; each guitar is given its channel so it is easy to distinguish and follow Richards and Taylor on each song. The concert followed the famous Philadelphia three shows in two days and portrays the same energy and committed playing from all musicians involved. Just before Love In Vain Jagger jokes: It s very nice to be back in Pittsburgh, we haven t been here since 1956! This is a typical 72 US Tour concert with great solos from Taylor (introduced as The Lady with the Lipstick On) especially on Love In Vain and a rowdy Midnight Rambler that is driven by Richards frantic guitar work and embellished by Nicky Hopkins piano that at times gets its way upfront. Street Fighting Man unfortunately fades out here as well after 1.24 minutes.
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
S.T.P
()
Date: August 1, 2019 18:45
Thanks OpenG!
...we'd like to play a song for everybody that doesn't have nobody...even their grandmother, she's dead
...we'd like to play a song for everybody that doesn't have nobody...even their grandmother, she's dead
Re: Ladies and gentlemen-1972, double LP. Eagle rock. Official album?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: August 1, 2019 19:17
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
I find that hard to believe. Probably Allan Klein related issues.
Look here :
[iorr.org]
VJ : "The L & G negatives were stored in a place that they are no longer there. There are various prints around but the actual negatives right now or rather when I was talking with Rollin were no where to be found, and believe me they looked"
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