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His Majesty

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paulspendel
Let's see what 'Jukebox Jury' Mathijs comes up with....

Flip The Switch - Beautiful Delilah

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Nikkei
Guess that also goes for Bonzo... that finished the band off

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OpenG
The period from 62 to 69 - Keith and Brian, the real WEAVERS, on those early records the use of open tunings was added but what about drop tunings - I can not recall Keith or Brian using drop d tunings only Open D . The use of drop d tunings was used by so many songwriters of all eras.

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Swayed1967

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Mathijs

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His Majesty

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Mathijs


Not everything Keith has done was majestic, no.

Mathijs

You liked them when you thought they were Keith.

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Mathijs

... I don’t like - I find it mediocre - I don’t like - I don’t like...
Mathijs

Basically, you don't like The Rolling Stones, not the real one atleast.

I like the Stones for a different reason than you. We both love the UK Aftermath, but probably for a different reason.

I am curious though, which parts I thought where Keith’s did I like?

Ps I forgot Brian’s fantastic slide on Little Red Rooster.

Mathijs

I admire Mathijs for ignoring the baiting and passive aggressive smileys of His Majesty and instead simply and methodically explaining why he finds Brian’s playing slightly inadequate. Very persuasive too, I must say. The ‘wobbliness’ of his slide in No Expectations is particularly well observed (although it only makes me love his plaintive playing all the more…and let’s give Jack Nitzsche a footnote too while we’re at it!)

As Mathijs has hinted at, Brian’s two biggest contributions were not in fact musical, strictly speaking. First, if he hadn’t been so hopeless as a songwriter, it’s possible that Keith and Mick wouldn’t have been encouraged to hone their own songwriting skills and create iconic tunes like Sympathy for the Devil (a song the calibre of which Brian couldn’t hope to match had he lived to be 75…although in fairness it should be mentioned that he & the gals absolutely shine during the woo-wooing). So that was a lucky break. And then of course there’s his abuse of women. If he hadn’t punched out Anita she may have never come to complicate Keith’s life in ways that would inspire him to write classics like Gimme Shelter. So way to go Bri!

But what Mathijs leaves unsaid I will say: Only a kook would put this guy on a pedestal.[/quote


Sympathy wouldnt exist hadnt Jimmy Miller told them to not copy Dear Mr Fantasy without firat changing the tempo. You totally miss how crucial the actual producing part is to the Stones songs and albums.

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Redhotcarpet


Sympathy wouldnt exist hadnt Jimmy Miller told them to not copy Dear Mr Fantasy without firat changing the tempo. You totally miss how crucial the actual producing part is to the Stones songs and albums.

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Swayed1967

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Redhotcarpet


Sympathy wouldnt exist hadnt Jimmy Miller told them to not copy Dear Mr Fantasy without firat changing the tempo. You totally miss how crucial the actual producing part is to the Stones songs and albums.

No, I didn't miss a thing. Unfortunately I was already familiar with your tiresome thoughts on that song.

Here’s what I imagine Jimmy Miller would tell you:

1. Your post has nothing to do with Brian Jones
2. Your grammar is atrocious
3. You’ve made so many Ry Cooder shitposts that everybody already knows what you think (and then Jimmy would punch you)

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OpenG
Brian's counter melodies were beautiful on Under My Thumb, Out of Time and Lady Jane. His slide work on Little Red Rooster, No Expecations and I Wanna Be Your Man real good and his work on Last Time is awesome. His guitar work for the short time he was in the band stands up over time.

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DandelionPowderman

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Swayed1967

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Redhotcarpet


Sympathy wouldnt exist hadnt Jimmy Miller told them to not copy Dear Mr Fantasy without firat changing the tempo. You totally miss how crucial the actual producing part is to the Stones songs and albums.

No, I didn't miss a thing. Unfortunately I was already familiar with your tiresome thoughts on that song.

Here’s what I imagine Jimmy Miller would tell you:

1. Your post has nothing to do with Brian Jones
2. Your grammar is atrocious
3. You’ve made so many Ry Cooder shitposts that everybody already knows what you think (and then Jimmy would punch you)

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Rocky Dijon
Mick and Keith have always looked for another Brian to add "colour" around the edges to their ideas. A nice understated way of saying they need someone to elevate their technically simple songs to a higher level.

In fairness, Jack Nitzsche and Nicky Hopkins did this during the same years as Brian. Al Kooper certainly did this with "You Can't Always Get What You Want." Jimmy Miller, Jim Price, and even the likes of Mike Leander and David Whittaker early on deserve credit for trying to bring some semblance of allowing them to compete with The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Dylan, etc.

To a lesser extent, Billy Preston brought this to bear on the band for much of the 1970s and even Ronnie at his start with some off-the-wall but effective touches like the wailing pedal steel on "Shattered."

Mick tried getting back in touch with this side starting with PRIMITIVE COOL. I'm not sure whether to credit Keith Diamond or Phil Ashley, but it's there and it's the same role Matt Clifford largely played in the last 30 years off and on with both the Stones and Mick solo. When you hear "Moon is Up" or "Infamy" that's the Stones trying to evoke Brian, however weakly. Mick's desire to infuse contemporary touches into their signature sound is more of the same.

Keith looked to Bernie Worrell, Ivan Neville, Willie Mitchell, Maceo Parker, and Buckwheat Zydeco to contribute outside "colour" to TALK IS CHEAP in a much more conventional fashion, though certainly atypical of what people expected from Keith. In many ways,he was building on what The New Barbarians attempted in their own half-assed fashion while hopelessly stoned.

The difference is these were sidemen, arrangers, and producers whereas Brian was one of them. The more accomplished guitarist when the band was formed, they went the same route in selecting Mick Taylor to replace him. To be certain, Taylor's musicianship elevated performances in the studio and onstage, but in a very different way - by simply being a jaw-dropping guitar player on what are deceptively simple compositions and arrangements. The Stones were the bar band with an inexplicable secret ingredient that made them impossible to successfully emulate. They were also far more eclectic than most credit them. This is why bands that are polar opposites like The Black Crowes and INXS could be seen as their offspring with both claims of parentage equally valid.

Brian was something completely different. I don't judge what he contributed to SATANIC MAJESTIES forward because I don't entirely trust the documentation that exists. He may have done more than he is credited for, they certainly weren't inclined to be overly generous to him by that stage.

The fact that Brian was an abusive jerk doesn't enter into my musical appreciation since I don't have illusions that Mick and Keith are swell people either. Even Charlie can be a jerk to people and certainly Ronnie. They are hugely successful and out-of-touch with a world where they are not the center of the universe. Do I think they're any worse than any other A-list talent? Of course not. Some people also have great interactions with them. It doesn't change the fact that they still have huge character flaws and lapses in judgement.

Is Brian underrated in the scope of the band's history? Of course, so is Bill, though Bill's contributions were more subtle and being an introvert, it was even easier to pass him by. As for the conspiracy theories for and against, it's all of interest. I'll consider all the posts so long as they're intelligent and impassioned. It's all worth evaluating whether the conclusion is death by misadventure or foul play. It's all part of the rich pageant that is The Rolling Stones. So is Brian Jones, half a century after his death. He is part of their DNA and far more than the spectral presence who haunts those nostalgic clips of yesteryear.

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24FPS
I can't wait for the crap scary music bed when they talk about the 'suspects' in Saint Brian's death.