Quote
HalfNanker
his drug use
his paranoia
Mick keith and Andrew freezing him out
Anita - his abuse of her and then keith taking her

he was the clear leader in the early years; watch the staging (he is up front wit Mick and Keith hides in the shadows) and interviews (he is often he first one asked questions), but he slowly lost that thru his own actions and those of his bandmates.

his story is fascinating, but we'll likely never know everything. Such a shame he didn't last longer so we could have seen if he had a second act.

Very fair observations. Indeed, it was a combination of factors; some his fault; some not. By the time the Let It Bleed sessions commenced, he was utterly spent. I’m sure he could’ve been saved, but his future was anywhere, but with the Rolling Stones.

This says it all:

I feel like almost everything that could be said of the situation has been said one way or another.

Personally I feel like him being pushed out was inevitable. He clearly had some kind of mental issues that weren't going to get better without help (probably something that would get a diagnosis these days) and him being unable to play in the US due to his conviction was the nail in the coffin.

Thing is, we in hindsight view his departure as 100% definitive and unrevocable, but if Brian had lived longer there is always the very real possibility that he would have worked with them eventually again down the road. Even if just for a guest spot like Taylor has had. But on the other hand, maybe him dying young was set in stone as well, considering how he was. It's sad to think about.

Quote
Glimmerest
I feel like almost everything that could be said of the situation has been said one way or another.

Personally I feel like him being pushed out was inevitable. He clearly had some kind of mental issues that weren't going to get better without help (probably something that would get a diagnosis these days) and him being unable to play in the US due to his conviction was the nail in the coffin.

Thing is, we in hindsight view his departure as 100% definitive and unrevocable, but if Brian had lived longer there is always the very real possibility that he would have worked with them eventually again down the road. Even if just for a guest spot like Taylor has had. But on the other hand, maybe him dying young was set in stone as well, considering how he was. It's sad to think about.

this is i think a major issue that isn't discussed enough about him

clearly something was going on up there in his head

I don't know if they realize it, but the other members of the Stones with their longlivity (so sad we lost Charlie on the way) made Brian just as immortal as The Rolling Stones. Doesn't Brian's estate still receive money as long as the band is alive?
Brian (such a complex man) and Charlie can RIP while we, the band and their fans alike, keep on rolling



I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

if only he could've straightened out and returned after the Taylor years. They could've got him doing solos, probably would've been great

That's Rock N Roll....

Brian Jones was fired. He didn't quit.

Of course he quit - he gave up. He quiet quit. But he was fired.

Mick, Keith and Charlie telling him was correct.

He went too wide. As much as he evolved as a musician, he didn't evolve with what was going on within the foundation.

Drugs? As common as it was then, he was more so. Keith got into heroin but never stopped functioning for the band.

Brian was about himself. Not his self interests as a musician.

Musically he got lost. BEGGARS BANQUET says that. A return to roots, somewhat, but he wasn't interested. LET IT BLEED sealed it. By 1971 it was already eons past. In TWO years Brian Jones went from A to Z and not a part of the Stones.

Was that because of the social aspects of the Stones or because he was so wigged out he didn't notice?

It's both.

Given enough life aspects he didn't notice: he wasn't interested. He couldn't play anymore. He could barely exist.

He was null and void.

That's all on him - he had no idea how to evolve to deal and understand it. The rest of the Stones did. Apparently he didn't say a word.

ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman

brian jones and his rollin' stones

Maybe he anticipated being treated like Stu and didn't care for that future?

He was too deep into drugs to function. I wonder if a top record like Yaya's would have been possible with him.

Paul Trynka's book suggests that Brian was the intended target of the Redland bust and that he was systematically hunted by the police which contributed to his mental state.

Quote
MartinB
Paul Trynka's book suggests that Brian was the intended target of the Redland bust and that he was systematically hunted by the police which contributed to his mental state.

Very possible. I know Anna Wohlin in her book said Brian became mental and violent when he found out that she was taking drugs at the farm

Anyone being managed by Allen Klein seemed to have problems with him, Sam Cooke , who died under suspicious circumstances, the Stones and the Beatles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-04-26 06:01 by Taylor1.

The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

Quote
MartinB
Paul Trynka's book suggests that Brian was the intended target of the Redland bust and that he was systematically hunted by the police which contributed to his mental state.

Not quite.

The whole thing arose from an evening in a pub when Brian confessed to a journalist that he regularly used drugs.

The journalist ran the story, but mistakenly said that he (journalist) had been talking with Jagger.

Jagger, rightly, was mightily pissed off about that, so threatened to sue the newspaper - News of The World, owned by Murdoch.

So, the newspaper then leaked to the Drug Squad that there would be a house party at Redlands where they could catch their prey in full action.

Famously a Beatle (George) and his wife were there as well, so the police felt that they had to wait until he had left before bursting in. (Ringing the doorbell actually).

So Paul Tynka's book is wrong (or your account of it is). The bust was engineered as revenge on Jagger for threatening to sue a Murdoch newspaper.

What is not wrong of course, is that Brian was systematically hunted by the Police (and the UK Establishment), and that definitely contributed to his mental state.

Captain Corella

For all our opinions, whatever the complex truth, a young man of talent lost his life too soon. He was not perfect, but who is?

Anyone who has ever liked a Rolling Stones record, from any period in The Stones history, would do well to reflect that it would all have been different without Brian Jones.....and I am so glad I lived through the sixties period as it unfolded.

What a journey.

Quote
More Hot Rocks
The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

I'm sorry but I find this to be such a shallow and regressive. Any characterization of Morrison or Brian as artists is going to be limited by the simple fact that they died too soon and never even got to experience the maturity of entering middle-ages (or even their 30s). As for a moral judgement of them, none of us actually knew them, any many of those who did know them missed them and mourned greatly, even the ones who were hurt by them.

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
MartinB
Paul Trynka's book suggests that Brian was the intended target of the Redland bust and that he was systematically hunted by the police which contributed to his mental state.

Not quite.

The whole thing arose from an evening in a pub when Brian confessed to a journalist that he regularly used drugs.

The journalist ran the story, but mistakenly said that he (journalist) had been talking with Jagger.

Jagger, rightly, was mightily pissed off about that, so threatened to sue the newspaper - News of The World, owned by Murdoch.

So, the newspaper then leaked to the Drug Squad that there would be a house party at Redlands where they could catch their prey in full action.

Famously a Beatle (George) and his wife were there as well, so the police felt that they had to wait until he had left before bursting in. (Ringing the doorbell actually).

So Paul Tynka's book is wrong (or your account of it is). The bust was engineered as revenge on Jagger for threatening to sue a Murdoch newspaper.

What is not wrong of course, is that Brian was systematically hunted by the Police (and the UK Establishment), and that definitely contributed to his mental state.

God Murdoch is such a @#$%& scurge on the earth. Can't believe Hall married that man.

Quote
Glimmerest

Quote
More Hot Rocks
The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

I'm sorry but I find this to be such a shallow and regressive. Any characterization of Morrison or Brian as artists is going to be limited by the simple fact that they died too soon and never even got to experience the maturity of entering middle-ages (or even their 30s). As for a moral judgement of them, none of us actually knew them, any many of those who did know them missed them and mourned greatly, even the ones who were hurt by them.

Pete Townshend, for example (around 4:08):

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-04-26 17:30 by Ps37.

Quote
Ps37

Quote
Glimmerest

Quote
More Hot Rocks
The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

I'm sorry but I find this to be such a shallow and regressive. Any characterization of Morrison or Brian as artists is going to be limited by the simple fact that they died too soon and never even got to experience the maturity of entering middle-ages (or even their 30s). As for a moral judgement of them, none of us actually knew them, any many of those who did know them missed them and mourned greatly, even the ones who were hurt by them.

Pete Townshend, for example (around 4:08):

[youtu.be]

Very beautiful speech. Thank you.

None of us will probably ever know all the details.

The one thing we should all agree on is that the music he was involved in their early years was outstanding.

And, that a great musician lost his life way to early.

Syd Barret is another example of a musician who ruined his life and career due to drugs, the industry, whatever else. His life did not end like Brian's but there are similarities.

Quote
Glimmerest

Quote
Ps37

Quote
Glimmerest

Quote
More Hot Rocks
The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

I'm sorry but I find this to be such a shallow and regressive. Any characterization of Morrison or Brian as artists is going to be limited by the simple fact that they died too soon and never even got to experience the maturity of entering middle-ages (or even their 30s). As for a moral judgement of them, none of us actually knew them, any many of those who did know them missed them and mourned greatly, even the ones who were hurt by them.

Pete Townshend, for example (around 4:08):

[youtu.be]

Very beautiful speech. Thank you.

You're very welcome.

George Harrison had thoughtful words for Brian as well:

[www.tumblr.com]

Quote
Ps37

Quote
Glimmerest

Quote
More Hot Rocks
The guy was a flash in the pan. Just like Jim Morrison. A semi poser with a mama’s boy toughness. Beer muscles that was afraid of a mouse. A playground bully.

I'm sorry but I find this to be such a shallow and regressive. Any characterization of Morrison or Brian as artists is going to be limited by the simple fact that they died too soon and never even got to experience the maturity of entering middle-ages (or even their 30s). As for a moral judgement of them, none of us actually knew them, any many of those who did know them missed them and mourned greatly, even the ones who were hurt by them.

Pete Townshend, for example (around 4:08):

[youtu.be]

Also here (around 5:02): [youtu.be]

Thanks Cristiano, that was another great interview.

My pleasure, Glimmerest! When I first watched that interview ages ago on the History of Rock'n'Roll series it gave me a whole new perspective about the image that some musical idols get after their death.

Quote
Cristiano Radtke
My pleasure, Glimmerest! When I first watched that interview ages ago on the History of Rock'n'Roll series it gave me a whole new perspective about the image that some musical idols get after their death.

I had the same experience listening to it.

I wonder if Mick, Keith, or Bill ever feel the same about Brian.

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
MartinB
Paul Trynka's book suggests that Brian was the intended target of the Redland bust and that he was systematically hunted by the police which contributed to his mental state.

Not quite.

The whole thing arose from an evening in a pub when Brian confessed to a journalist that he regularly used drugs.

The journalist ran the story, but mistakenly said that he (journalist) had been talking with Jagger.

Jagger, rightly, was mightily pissed off about that, so threatened to sue the newspaper - News of The World, owned by Murdoch.

So, the newspaper then leaked to the Drug Squad that there would be a house party at Redlands where they could catch their prey in full action.

Famously a Beatle (George) and his wife were there as well, so the police felt that they had to wait until he had left before bursting in. (Ringing the doorbell actually).

So Paul Tynka's book is wrong (or your account of it is). The bust was engineered as revenge on Jagger for threatening to sue a Murdoch newspaper.

What is not wrong of course, is that Brian was systematically hunted by the Police (and the UK Establishment), and that definitely contributed to his mental state.

I wrote the above entirely from memory, and have now identified a correction (not of major substance) and an addition minor point.

The correction is that Brian did NOT confess to a journalist. What happened was that the News of The World journalists spotted him (Brian) popping some pills and showing off some dope.

Additionally, the crazy part is that when these journalists wrote up the story falsely accusing Jagger of drug taking, had they read their own newspaper (and had the editor even checked the story) they'd have read (in their own paper!) that Mick was actually in Italy with Marianne!!

This summary of the vile activities of this arm of the Murdoch Empire is readable [en.wikipedia.org]#

Captain Corella

ROCKMAN