Tell Me :
Talk
Yes the PPV appearence was good but on the previous AC show Hooker showed up wasted and delivered a pitiful performance of BC. Jagger must have thought : "another "brilliant" guest idea from Keith. If we ever invite people onstage I'll pick them".
Utter nonsense. Midnight Rambler was basically structured and arranged to allow him to shine. By the end of the tour in Europe and Asia, the song had expanded to 15+ minutes. Check out Roskilde or Stockholm or Auckland from that tour. I’ll never forget those shows.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-27 15:35 by drbryant.
Rambler isn´t quite a "taylor-made" song for MT to shine. It´s just jamming over a blues. Most of the most significant Stones/Taylor-songs were left out. They let him play on Sway and CYHMK only very few times and then Mick Jagger occasionally even cut MT after a few bars of soloing. And they made him play (unaudible) ACOUSTIC guitar on Satisfaction and on some of Keith´s most average songs. They used him just as a gimmick and they used him on the wrong songs. After 2013(14)(???) MT said he is ready to go on tour with them again "just waiting for a phone-call". But they never called. They didn´t even tell him that he was out, not even one of their employees told him so. He knew he was out after they played their first gig without him, not before. Humilating.
Regarding Bill - they didn´t even rehearse with him prior to the show (he was there waiting for his part to be rehearsed but they told him there was no time to rehearse his part). They made him play on IORR, a song he havent even played on the album. They let Darryl do a bass solo on Miss You with Bill standing offstage. And Mick told the audience how great Darryl was...in fact he praised him more than usual because he knew Bill could hear him. Mick praised Darryl to humilate Bill. No wonder Bill was fed up and did quit after that.
Reagarding guests (although I really don´t need any guests): Taylor Swift was the best of all guests. Period.
I wish we could say that for sure... because they do seem to (still) have a strange attitude towards him. In an otherwise great interview last year, Ronnie and Charlie exchange a certain dirty look as soon as his name comes up that doesn't sit well. Gleeful, I suppose. [youtu.be]
no there was no intent to humiliate Mick Taylor.. not during the tour he guested on. why would they do that? bad for business.
subsequently, there have been some issues and thats another discussion, but.. its none of our business.
that his relationship with them is mostly financial is kind of sad. but he hasnt got a very good manager..
..
She's 19 years old.
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Of course it was their intent to humilate him. Satisfaction is the encore where everybody is fireing on all cylinders - his acoustic guitar wasn´t audible to anyone in all that noise. Having an ace player and giving him a acoustic guitar during a hard rocking song so nobody could hear him is humilating. Why not a tambourine to make it even more clear that they didn´t needed him really? - Humilating.
He played two tours with them and how often did they play Sway or CYHMK, songs he is most associated with? How often was Winter played and how often 100 Years Ago? Instead of that they used him for Midnight Rambler only which is basically just a blues song and mostly a showcase for Mick Jagger only. - Humilating.
And the way their new found relationship on stage came to an end makes it all even more evident. A late revenge.
HMS, your remark s*cks
Because his best work is with the electric guitar and being forced to play acoustic was a slap in the face. He was playing leads during satisfaction on electric in 2013 and suddenly got demoted. If you research there's a picture of him playing acoustic with a tambourine around his neck. He did that to mock the situation. I talked with someone very close to MT many times, and she told me many stories of Mick Taylor getting mistreated. What really pissed Jagger off was when Keith brought out Taylor for slipping away in Tokyo. I was told Keith did it without Brenda's permission and he didn't like that at all.
The Mick Taylor story seems to really be sugar coated.
Believe it or not, this is what I was told....
it seems to be his destiny to have career difficulty, but my god what a musician. I can see how the AG on Satisfaction would cause resentment.. on top of everything else. he was denied credit for major songwriting contributions, as was Bill.
yet I also can imagine the thinking behind getting him to not play electric on Satisfaction.. it probably, after a few shows, became apparent that it wasnt fitting..
I just think Keith, and probably Jagger as well, were going out of their way to treat him fairly and with dignity during that tour.. they tried stuff ( Silver Train, Sway) and involved Mick T., and alot of it was great, some wasnt.
no doubt youve been around his girlfriend/manager, who apparently hasnt had anything good to say about the Stones at all, ever.
I doubt Taylor feels that way.
You're not too far off. It is what it is though. I just wish we could see a whole set with MT. At this point i'm just happy to come out and see the Stones.
I think they invited MT and Bill for several reasons (one of the reasons imo clearly was to humilate both MT and Bill):
- Ticket prices exploded. So they thought it would be nice to offer some kind of "bonus"
- It was their 50th anniversary and they felt it would be appropriate to include ex-members to celebrate the event.
- inviting famous ex-members always increases interest
- the long awaited and highly welcomed possibility to humilate the "traitors" each night, a kind of late revenge and punishment because the Stones probably never forgave MT and Bill for leaving the band. MT beared the humilation because he could use the money. Bill recognized immidiately what they were after and did quit.
MT wearing a tambourine around his neck while playing acoustic guitar on Satisfaction shows that he was very aware of being humilated. He must have been very uncomfortably only playing MR night after night and only very occasionally being allowed to play "his signature songs" Sway & CYHMK. During 2014 massive tensions might have been surfaced between MT and the Stones, old tensions as well as new ones, all of this of course was not discussed in public. But the fact that the Stones obviously didn´t even tell MT that he was out after 2014 speaks for itself, just as the above mentioned exchange of a "dirty look" between Ronnie and Charlie during an interview when MT was mentioned. - Last not least one important thing that must not be forgotten: MT was occasionally even forced to play on his knees in front of Mick... imagine that.
Had the Stones in 2012 really intended to settle their conflicts with Bill and MT they would not have treated them the way they actually did. They would have had MT playing Sway & CYHMK each night not just a few times where they occasionally even cut him during his solo (of course as part of the general humilation). Bill would have had a solo during Miss You, he would have been onstage for more than just two songs and so on. - To sum it up, the Stones cleverly mixed the increased interest caused by having Bill and MT as guests with the opportunity for taking revenge.
Unfortunately, I have no real evidence other than the many aforementioned clues but all these hints speak for their own, loud and clear, easily to understand for everyone.
I admire your lifely imagination. "Settle which conflicts?" There were no conflicts. Both had left the band long ago and all was settled then. Also the Stones make up the setlist and "who does what and when". You (and many others, like me, for sure) would have liked Sway and CYHMK, but there are so many different fans with different "whishes". Impossible so satisfy everyone. Bill doing a solo during Miss You??? I think he would hate the idea. Furthermore, I just happen to know that he simply very much enjoyed and sort of really expected to be part of the 50th Anniversary events. But he also made clear he was not in for a "follow up" in the USA, and not for reasons of humiliation.
Indeed you have no evidence. Charlie and Ron are still on friendly terms with MT, just check the different occasions they made music together. Strange faces as such say nothing.
Even worse (imo) was the Fonda show at the beginning of Zip Code tour where they played Sticky Fingers in it's entirety sans Mick Taylor, and then had the audacity to officially release it which annoyed a majority of Stones fans in the process. I still protest that decision and will never pay a penny towards that release, nor watch or listen to it in full even for free. Nothing against Ronnie, but the clips I've seen on youtube are average at best and all of it is difficult to watch without thinking of Taylor. The Stones can try and erase Mick Taylor and Bill out of their history (the photoshop incident is unforgivable), but most true fans will never forget either of them.
_____________________________________________________________
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Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: June 27, 2019 11:00
Quote
The Sicilian
On the other hand, John Lee Hooker joining the Stones onstage in Atlantic City in 1989 to play Boogie Chillen was an absolutely brilliant moment.
Yes the PPV appearence was good but on the previous AC show Hooker showed up wasted and delivered a pitiful performance of BC. Jagger must have thought : "another "brilliant" guest idea from Keith. If we ever invite people onstage I'll pick them".
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: June 27, 2019 11:59
what songs would Muddy inspire Taylor Swift to write if they hooked up (who can resist Muddy?)
… Not sure about inspiration but woulda been a
laugh ta see 'em duetting on Muddy's -- I Got a Rich Man's Woman …..
ROCKMAN
… Not sure about inspiration but woulda been a
laugh ta see 'em duetting on Muddy's -- I Got a Rich Man's Woman …..
ROCKMAN
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: June 27, 2019 15:30
Quote
HMS
They only hired MT to humilate him.
They tried to do the same with Bill, but he didnt need the money so bad.
Utter nonsense. Midnight Rambler was basically structured and arranged to allow him to shine. By the end of the tour in Europe and Asia, the song had expanded to 15+ minutes. Check out Roskilde or Stockholm or Auckland from that tour. I’ll never forget those shows.
video: [www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-27 15:35 by drbryant.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 27, 2019 15:59
Quote
drbryantQuote
HMS
They only hired MT to humilate him.
They tried to do the same with Bill, but he didnt need the money so bad.
Utter nonsense. Midnight Rambler was basically structured and arranged to allow him to shine. By the end of the tour in Europe and Asia, the song had expanded to 15+ minutes. Check out Roskilde or Stockholm or Auckland from that tour. I’ll never forget those shows.
Rambler isn´t quite a "taylor-made" song for MT to shine. It´s just jamming over a blues. Most of the most significant Stones/Taylor-songs were left out. They let him play on Sway and CYHMK only very few times and then Mick Jagger occasionally even cut MT after a few bars of soloing. And they made him play (unaudible) ACOUSTIC guitar on Satisfaction and on some of Keith´s most average songs. They used him just as a gimmick and they used him on the wrong songs. After 2013(14)(???) MT said he is ready to go on tour with them again "just waiting for a phone-call". But they never called. They didn´t even tell him that he was out, not even one of their employees told him so. He knew he was out after they played their first gig without him, not before. Humilating.
Regarding Bill - they didn´t even rehearse with him prior to the show (he was there waiting for his part to be rehearsed but they told him there was no time to rehearse his part). They made him play on IORR, a song he havent even played on the album. They let Darryl do a bass solo on Miss You with Bill standing offstage. And Mick told the audience how great Darryl was...in fact he praised him more than usual because he knew Bill could hear him. Mick praised Darryl to humilate Bill. No wonder Bill was fed up and did quit after that.
Reagarding guests (although I really don´t need any guests): Taylor Swift was the best of all guests. Period.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 27, 2019 16:30
The only guests that mattered to me were the blues icons like John lee Hooker or Buddy Guy. Or their contemporaries like Eric Clapton.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 27, 2019 16:35
You're right, HMS. It's a novelty how they treated Taylor on the tour. One song only! And a bland introduction. Thankfully Bill could afford not to be treated like that!
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: June 27, 2019 16:36
Quote
duke richardsonQuote
HMS
They only hired MT to humilate him.
They tried to do the same with Bill, but he didnt need the money so bad.
No they weren’t trying to humiliate Mick Taylor. Come on.
I wish we could say that for sure... because they do seem to (still) have a strange attitude towards him. In an otherwise great interview last year, Ronnie and Charlie exchange a certain dirty look as soon as his name comes up that doesn't sit well. Gleeful, I suppose. [youtu.be]
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 27, 2019 18:23
Quote
NikkeiQuote
duke richardsonQuote
HMS
They only hired MT to humilate him.
They tried to do the same with Bill, but he didnt need the money so bad.
No they weren’t trying to humiliate Mick Taylor. Come on.
I wish we could say that for sure... because they do seem to (still) have a strange attitude towards him. In an otherwise great interview last year, Ronnie and Charlie exchange a certain dirty look as soon as his name comes up that doesn't sit well. Gleeful, I suppose. [youtu.be]
no there was no intent to humiliate Mick Taylor.. not during the tour he guested on. why would they do that? bad for business.
subsequently, there have been some issues and thats another discussion, but.. its none of our business.
that his relationship with them is mostly financial is kind of sad. but he hasnt got a very good manager..
..Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: June 27, 2019 18:28
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
Rockman
Lets put it this way ….
Imagine going ta see Muddy Waters
and you get Muddy and Taylor Swift duetting on Mannish Boy ……
Certain thoughts just give the body strange shudders dont they …….
Lol....things are just crystal clear now.........what songs would Muddy inspire Taylor to write if they hooked up (who can resist Muddy?)
She's 19 years old.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
JDSAM1994
()
Date: June 27, 2019 19:06
Saw some people discussing if they were trying to humiliate Mick Taylor or not.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-27 19:09 by JDSAM1994.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-27 19:09 by JDSAM1994.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 27, 2019 20:02
Quote
JDSAM1994
Saw some people discussing if they were trying to humiliate Mick Taylor or not.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 27, 2019 20:27
Quote
duke richardson
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Of course it was their intent to humilate him. Satisfaction is the encore where everybody is fireing on all cylinders - his acoustic guitar wasn´t audible to anyone in all that noise. Having an ace player and giving him a acoustic guitar during a hard rocking song so nobody could hear him is humilating. Why not a tambourine to make it even more clear that they didn´t needed him really? - Humilating.
He played two tours with them and how often did they play Sway or CYHMK, songs he is most associated with? How often was Winter played and how often 100 Years Ago? Instead of that they used him for Midnight Rambler only which is basically just a blues song and mostly a showcase for Mick Jagger only. - Humilating.
And the way their new found relationship on stage came to an end makes it all even more evident. A late revenge.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 27, 2019 21:16
yes he was a hired soloist and he certainly showed anyone who was watching and listening that his playing is still outstanding, excellent, no one can argue that. Thats why I dont think having him play a barely audible acoustic on a song like Satisfaction diminishes anything else he did.
They knew when he agreed to play with them, that his ability on the guitar would be conspicuosly better or more skillful, however you want to describe it, in the context of the Stones' music. Its almost like having someone of the caliber of John Coltrane play with them. And having that on a longish r&b jam like Satisfaction just doesnt really fit the song, although it could, I guess.
that they showcased their old guitarist on a couple of numbers was pretty cool I thought.. not humiliating.. given their strained relations ship then, and now, they could have just not invited him at all.. but they did.
They knew when he agreed to play with them, that his ability on the guitar would be conspicuosly better or more skillful, however you want to describe it, in the context of the Stones' music. Its almost like having someone of the caliber of John Coltrane play with them. And having that on a longish r&b jam like Satisfaction just doesnt really fit the song, although it could, I guess.
that they showcased their old guitarist on a couple of numbers was pretty cool I thought.. not humiliating.. given their strained relations ship then, and now, they could have just not invited him at all.. but they did.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: June 27, 2019 22:50
I can assure you he wasn't used as a bait. Neither was Bill. There are "voices of fans" that reach the ears of the Stones ...Quote
dcba
Was MT a semi-permanent guest?
Was he used as a bait to catch the elder part of the audience (aka the IORR crowd) the same way Gaga or Swift were used as a bait to catch new fans?
HMS, your remark s*cks
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 28, 2019 00:58
All this talk about how good a guitarist Taylor is. My take is more how good a guitarist he was. I don't think he added anything worth boasting about on Rambler.
I saw him perform CYHMK with The Roots. And I tell you - he wasn't the star there. Can you have a lackluster career for 40 years and still be considered a genius? How does that work?
I saw him perform CYHMK with The Roots. And I tell you - he wasn't the star there. Can you have a lackluster career for 40 years and still be considered a genius? How does that work?
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: June 28, 2019 08:07
OK... I started this thread to thank the Stones for not turning what is a once in lifetime event for many people into a rock and roll fantasy camp for a bunch of fckwits.
I’m about sick of this bullshit about Gary Clark jr,you can go see him in a theater setting or Indian casino anywhere around the country,The Rolling Stones don’t need his help.
I’ve seen Freddie King,Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker play 15 feet from me and this kid is nowhere in their universe,he’s closer to a Johnny Lang.thats fine but
The Stones don’t need his help.
Same with Tom Waits,this is another guy who we’re supposed to say is great because it’s the hip thing,Tom Waits sucks.
The guy is a good song writer but he sings like he got kicked in the throat by Georges st Pierre ,do we need to spend hundreds of dollars for that shit-no.
Taylor Swift,John Fogerty,Ed Sheerhan,Katy Perry,Brad Paisley etc..
Drive that entire clown car back to Disney land.
As for Mick Taylor or Bill,they are not guests they are Rolling Stones.its a whole other level of existence.
I’m about sick of this bullshit about Gary Clark jr,you can go see him in a theater setting or Indian casino anywhere around the country,The Rolling Stones don’t need his help.
I’ve seen Freddie King,Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker play 15 feet from me and this kid is nowhere in their universe,he’s closer to a Johnny Lang.thats fine but
The Stones don’t need his help.
Same with Tom Waits,this is another guy who we’re supposed to say is great because it’s the hip thing,Tom Waits sucks.
The guy is a good song writer but he sings like he got kicked in the throat by Georges st Pierre ,do we need to spend hundreds of dollars for that shit-no.
Taylor Swift,John Fogerty,Ed Sheerhan,Katy Perry,Brad Paisley etc..
Drive that entire clown car back to Disney land.
As for Mick Taylor or Bill,they are not guests they are Rolling Stones.its a whole other level of existence.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: June 28, 2019 09:01
Quote
lem motlow
OK... I started this thread to thank the Stones for not turning what is a once in lifetime event for many people into a rock and roll fantasy camp for a bunch of fckwits.
I’m about sick of this bullshit about Gary Clark jr,you can go see him in a theater setting or Indian casino anywhere around the country,The Rolling Stones don’t need his help.
I’ve seen Freddie King,Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker play 15 feet from me and this kid is nowhere in their universe,he’s closer to a Johnny Lang.thats fine but
The Stones don’t need his help.
Same with Tom Waits,this is another guy who we’re supposed to say is great because it’s the hip thing,Tom Waits sucks.
The guy is a good song writer but he sings like he got kicked in the throat by Georges st Pierre ,do we need to spend hundreds of dollars for that shit-no.
Taylor Swift,John Fogerty,Ed Sheerhan,Katy Perry,Brad Paisley etc..
Drive that entire clown car back to Disney land.
As for Mick Taylor or Bill,they are not guests they are Rolling Stones.its a whole other level of existence.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
JDSAM1994
()
Date: June 28, 2019 16:10
Quote
duke richardsonQuote
JDSAM1994
Saw some people discussing if they were trying to humiliate Mick Taylor or not.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Because his best work is with the electric guitar and being forced to play acoustic was a slap in the face. He was playing leads during satisfaction on electric in 2013 and suddenly got demoted. If you research there's a picture of him playing acoustic with a tambourine around his neck. He did that to mock the situation. I talked with someone very close to MT many times, and she told me many stories of Mick Taylor getting mistreated. What really pissed Jagger off was when Keith brought out Taylor for slipping away in Tokyo. I was told Keith did it without Brenda's permission and he didn't like that at all.
The Mick Taylor story seems to really be sugar coated.
Believe it or not, this is what I was told....
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: June 28, 2019 16:36
I'm not really sure where I stand on this one
...but I'd be surprised if they got through this whole tour without a single solitary guest for some show or another....
...but I'd be surprised if they got through this whole tour without a single solitary guest for some show or another....
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 28, 2019 17:06
Quote
JDSAM1994Quote
duke richardsonQuote
JDSAM1994
Saw some people discussing if they were trying to humiliate Mick Taylor or not.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Because his best work is with the electric guitar and being forced to play acoustic was a slap in the face. He was playing leads during satisfaction on electric in 2013 and suddenly got demoted. If you research there's a picture of him playing acoustic with a tambourine around his neck. He did that to mock the situation. I talked with someone very close to MT many times, and she told me many stories of Mick Taylor getting mistreated. What really pissed Jagger off was when Keith brought out Taylor for slipping away in Tokyo. I was told Keith did it without Brenda's permission and he didn't like that at all.
The Mick Taylor story seems to really be sugar coated.
Believe it or not, this is what I was told....
it seems to be his destiny to have career difficulty, but my god what a musician. I can see how the AG on Satisfaction would cause resentment.. on top of everything else. he was denied credit for major songwriting contributions, as was Bill.
yet I also can imagine the thinking behind getting him to not play electric on Satisfaction.. it probably, after a few shows, became apparent that it wasnt fitting..
I just think Keith, and probably Jagger as well, were going out of their way to treat him fairly and with dignity during that tour.. they tried stuff ( Silver Train, Sway) and involved Mick T., and alot of it was great, some wasnt.
no doubt youve been around his girlfriend/manager, who apparently hasnt had anything good to say about the Stones at all, ever.
I doubt Taylor feels that way.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
JDSAM1994
()
Date: June 28, 2019 17:16
Quote
duke richardsonQuote
JDSAM1994Quote
duke richardsonQuote
JDSAM1994
Saw some people discussing if they were trying to humiliate Mick Taylor or not.
If you think no, ask yourself why they put him on an acoustic guitar during satisfaction after he already did it a few times with his les paul.
In my personal opinion Mick Taylor (musically) was the greatest stone ever and he should be in every song of every show. If you don't think he was the greatest stone, you're probably not to familiar with guitar playing.
My best Stones moment was watching him do the Sway solo in 2013. Nothing will ever top that.
My parents have been to over 200 Stones shows since 1964. If you ask them which was the best, they will instantly tell you Kansas City 1981 with Mick Taylor.
why does having him play acoustic on Satisfaction equate to humiliating him? thats nonsense. the original has a fairly prominent acoustic guitar. Mick Taylor may have suggested that he play acoustic on it for those shows, for all we know.
Because his best work is with the electric guitar and being forced to play acoustic was a slap in the face. He was playing leads during satisfaction on electric in 2013 and suddenly got demoted. If you research there's a picture of him playing acoustic with a tambourine around his neck. He did that to mock the situation. I talked with someone very close to MT many times, and she told me many stories of Mick Taylor getting mistreated. What really pissed Jagger off was when Keith brought out Taylor for slipping away in Tokyo. I was told Keith did it without Brenda's permission and he didn't like that at all.
The Mick Taylor story seems to really be sugar coated.
Believe it or not, this is what I was told....
it seems to be his destiny to have career difficulty, but my god what a musician. I can see how the AG on Satisfaction would cause resentment.. on top of everything else. he was denied credit for major songwriting contributions, as was Bill.
yet I also can imagine the thinking behind getting him to not play electric on Satisfaction.. it probably, after a few shows, became apparent that it wasnt fitting..
I just think Keith, and probably Jagger as well, were going out of their way to treat him fairly and with dignity during that tour.. they tried stuff ( Silver Train, Sway) and involved Mick T., and alot of it was great, some wasnt.
no doubt youve been around his girlfriend/manager, who apparently hasnt had anything good to say about the Stones at all, ever.
I doubt Taylor feels that way.
You're not too far off. It is what it is though. I just wish we could see a whole set with MT. At this point i'm just happy to come out and see the Stones.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: June 28, 2019 18:53
Well, well, well. I spoke with Mick T. in Astoria way back in 2003 and it's not fair to either mock the Stones or Mick T. We're dealing here with human beings, who have feelings and deal with emotions just like any of us. Mick leaving the Stones in 1974 left some hard feelings and it takes time to get over such kind of hard feelings. Some are over it in no time, for others it can take decades. We're all different, right?
Mick T. being invited in 2012 was based on getting over certain still heavy feelings, being big hearted. No business reasons nonsence. The various "kinds of" Stones fans cover almost 6 decades now. And they all, one way or the other, contributed to the success of the Rolling Stones. So they matter! And as I mentioned before, voices reach the ears of the Stones members. I wasn't surprised at all that Mick T. was invited to join the band during the 14onFire tour. It was unique and a great gesture! But .... that doesn't mean that the Stones should (would have to) make him a band member again, like if nothing had happened/ nothing had changed. Well ...
By the way, Mick T. "playing" accoustic on the final song on the second London 2012 show wasn't that weird. There was "some criticism" after the first show: why no Mick T. and Bill during the final goodbye?
Mick T. being invited in 2012 was based on getting over certain still heavy feelings, being big hearted. No business reasons nonsence. The various "kinds of" Stones fans cover almost 6 decades now. And they all, one way or the other, contributed to the success of the Rolling Stones. So they matter! And as I mentioned before, voices reach the ears of the Stones members. I wasn't surprised at all that Mick T. was invited to join the band during the 14onFire tour. It was unique and a great gesture! But .... that doesn't mean that the Stones should (would have to) make him a band member again, like if nothing had happened/ nothing had changed. Well ...
By the way, Mick T. "playing" accoustic on the final song on the second London 2012 show wasn't that weird. There was "some criticism" after the first show: why no Mick T. and Bill during the final goodbye?
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 28, 2019 22:18
Quote
georgie48
Mick T. being invited in 2012 was based on getting over certain still heavy feelings, being big hearted. No business reasons nonsence.
I think they invited MT and Bill for several reasons (one of the reasons imo clearly was to humilate both MT and Bill):
- Ticket prices exploded. So they thought it would be nice to offer some kind of "bonus"
- It was their 50th anniversary and they felt it would be appropriate to include ex-members to celebrate the event.
- inviting famous ex-members always increases interest
- the long awaited and highly welcomed possibility to humilate the "traitors" each night, a kind of late revenge and punishment because the Stones probably never forgave MT and Bill for leaving the band. MT beared the humilation because he could use the money. Bill recognized immidiately what they were after and did quit.
MT wearing a tambourine around his neck while playing acoustic guitar on Satisfaction shows that he was very aware of being humilated. He must have been very uncomfortably only playing MR night after night and only very occasionally being allowed to play "his signature songs" Sway & CYHMK. During 2014 massive tensions might have been surfaced between MT and the Stones, old tensions as well as new ones, all of this of course was not discussed in public. But the fact that the Stones obviously didn´t even tell MT that he was out after 2014 speaks for itself, just as the above mentioned exchange of a "dirty look" between Ronnie and Charlie during an interview when MT was mentioned. - Last not least one important thing that must not be forgotten: MT was occasionally even forced to play on his knees in front of Mick... imagine that.
Had the Stones in 2012 really intended to settle their conflicts with Bill and MT they would not have treated them the way they actually did. They would have had MT playing Sway & CYHMK each night not just a few times where they occasionally even cut him during his solo (of course as part of the general humilation). Bill would have had a solo during Miss You, he would have been onstage for more than just two songs and so on. - To sum it up, the Stones cleverly mixed the increased interest caused by having Bill and MT as guests with the opportunity for taking revenge.
Unfortunately, I have no real evidence other than the many aforementioned clues but all these hints speak for their own, loud and clear, easily to understand for everyone.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: June 28, 2019 22:28
"MT was occasionally even forced to play on his knees in front of Mick... imagine that".
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: June 28, 2019 23:45
Quote
HMSQuote
georgie48
Mick T. being invited in 2012 was based on getting over certain still heavy feelings, being big hearted. No business reasons nonsence.
MT wearing a tambourine around his neck while playing acoustic guitar on Satisfaction shows that he was very aware of being humilated. He must have been very uncomfortably only playing MR night after night and only very occasionally being allowed to play "his signature songs" Sway & CYHMK. During 2014 massive tensions might have been surfaced between MT and the Stones, old tensions as well as new ones, all of this of course was not discussed in public. But the fact that the Stones obviously didn´t even tell MT that he was out after 2014 speaks for itself, just as the above mentioned exchange of a "dirty look" between Ronnie and Charlie during an interview when MT was mentioned.
Had the Stones in 2012 really intended to settle their conflicts with Bill and MT they would not have treated them the way they actually did. They would have had MT playing Sway & CYHMK each night not just a few times where they occasionally even cut him during his solo (of course as part of the general humilation). Bill would have had a solo during Miss You, he would have been onstage for more than just two songs and so on. - To sum it up, the Stones cleverly mixed the increased interest caused by having Bill and MT as guests with the opportunity for taking revenge.
Unfortunately, I have no real evidence other than the many aforementioned clues but all these hints speak for their own, loud and clear, easily to understand for everyone.
I admire your lifely imagination. "Settle which conflicts?" There were no conflicts. Both had left the band long ago and all was settled then. Also the Stones make up the setlist and "who does what and when". You (and many others, like me, for sure) would have liked Sway and CYHMK, but there are so many different fans with different "whishes". Impossible so satisfy everyone. Bill doing a solo during Miss You??? I think he would hate the idea. Furthermore, I just happen to know that he simply very much enjoyed and sort of really expected to be part of the 50th Anniversary events. But he also made clear he was not in for a "follow up" in the USA, and not for reasons of humiliation.
Indeed you have no evidence. Charlie and Ron are still on friendly terms with MT, just check the different occasions they made music together. Strange faces as such say nothing.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
JDSAM1994
()
Date: June 29, 2019 15:29
If you remember the zip code tour, the gimmick was that it was a Sticky Fingers re-release celebration tour. You would think MT the guy who played all the iconic guitars solos would be on the tour. Him not being there didn’t make any sense. When they played MM, CYHMK,& Heartbreaker in Milwaukee they were a little shaky and it was clearly missing MTs Guitar.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: June 29, 2019 15:54
Quote
JDSAM1994
If you remember the zip code tour, the gimmick was that it was a Sticky Fingers re-release celebration tour. You would think MT the guy who played all the iconic guitars solos would be on the tour. Him not being there didn’t make any sense. When they played MM, CYHMK,& Heartbreaker in Milwaukee they were a little shaky and it was clearly missing MTs Guitar.
Even worse (imo) was the Fonda show at the beginning of Zip Code tour where they played Sticky Fingers in it's entirety sans Mick Taylor, and then had the audacity to officially release it which annoyed a majority of Stones fans in the process. I still protest that decision and will never pay a penny towards that release, nor watch or listen to it in full even for free. Nothing against Ronnie, but the clips I've seen on youtube are average at best and all of it is difficult to watch without thinking of Taylor. The Stones can try and erase Mick Taylor and Bill out of their history (the photoshop incident is unforgivable), but most true fans will never forget either of them.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 29, 2019 17:31
Maybe not inviting MT for the Fonda gig was the well planned climax of humilation after all the humilation they made him suffer during 2012-14.
Anyway, Ronnie did a great job at the Fonda.
The DVD/CD-release is their best live release since wonderful Shine A Light, imo.
The zip-code-tour had not much of a SF-anniversary celebration anyway, they only played the usual tracks from SF, didn´t they.
Anyway, Ronnie did a great job at the Fonda.
The DVD/CD-release is their best live release since wonderful Shine A Light, imo.
The zip-code-tour had not much of a SF-anniversary celebration anyway, they only played the usual tracks from SF, didn´t they.
Re: No Guests-THANK YOU STONES!
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 29, 2019 18:25
A look on the bright side with this is:
- The money. Hopefully he made a good deal of Pound Sterling out of this. To secure his retirement.
- Friendship. To meet his old friends in the band and follow them on two world tours. A good thing I think.
All in all a good affair for everyone involved.
- The money. Hopefully he made a good deal of Pound Sterling out of this. To secure his retirement.
- Friendship. To meet his old friends in the band and follow them on two world tours. A good thing I think.
All in all a good affair for everyone involved.
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