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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:21 by His Majesty.

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dandelion1967

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His Majesty
The site needs a big update. Lots to add, corrections etc.

Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?

In his very own words, Nicky's first work with the Stones was 'We Love You' in February 1967. So it's Nitzssche or Stu, and I put my two cents on Stu. It has a lot more stylistic similarities to Stu's playing on Aftermath, say Doncha Bother Me, than it has to Nitzsche's playing.

Mathijs

I think it's Stu on After-Math

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:21 by His Majesty.

Well, probably there is a long way to go from "ideas for songs" to actual songs... Seemingly it was just talk with Alexis, not like picking up an instrument and saying 'you know, it goes like this'. For some people probably an idea is some kind of riff, a chord sequence or a melody or lyric sketch, but for Brian that seemed to more like intellectual idea with no musical or any actual content yet. I wonder if the song Brian said to had for BEGGARS BANQUET (according to Bill, Brian said that to Mick), was such an 'idea' as well.

Probably Brian would have needed some kind of 'ghostwriter' to turn those intellectual ideas into form of music...

Song-writing is not any rocket science (whether the results are any good is another issue), but for Brian it sounded to be something like that... Could it be that he was aiming too high? Write something totally unique and original? He was an ambitious guy, so who knows.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-03 14:08 by Doxa.

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Mathijs

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dandelion1967

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His Majesty
The site needs a big update. Lots to add, corrections etc.

Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?

In his very own words, Nicky's first work with the Stones was 'We Love You' in February 1967. So it's Nitzssche or Stu, and I put my two cents on Stu. It has a lot more stylistic similarities to Stu's playing on Aftermath, say Doncha Bother Me, than it has to Nitzsche's playing.

Mathijs

Are you sure he said We Love You and February?
Seems very early for We Love You.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-03 13:59 by rootsman.

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Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:22 by His Majesty.

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rootsman

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Mathijs

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dandelion1967

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His Majesty
The site needs a big update. Lots to add, corrections etc.

Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?

In his very own words, Nicky's first work with the Stones was 'We Love You' in February 1967. So it's Nitzssche or Stu, and I put my two cents on Stu. It has a lot more stylistic similarities to Stu's playing on Aftermath, say Doncha Bother Me, than it has to Nitzsche's playing.

Mathijs

Are you sure he said We Love You and February?
Seems very early for We Love You.

Yes, and I do think he mixes up two sessions: he worked with Brian on the Degree of Murder soundtrack in February, and his first session with the Stones was in May 1967, where they worked on We Love You amongst others.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-04 09:57 by Mathijs.

Had Brian lived, Icould have seen him going in the direction of Brian Eno as a producer, working with artists like Fripp, Bowie, U2. And I stll think he was such a talented musician he would have gotten a new band together.And speaking of songs like We Love You and Ruby Tuesday , it sounds to me like he deserved a writers credit



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-03 16:57 by Taylor1.

At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

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Mathijs

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rootsman

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Mathijs

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dandelion1967

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His Majesty
The site needs a big update. Lots to add, corrections etc.

Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?

In his very own words, Nicky's first work with the Stones was 'We Love You' in February 1967. So it's Nitzssche or Stu, and I put my two cents on Stu. It has a lot more stylistic similarities to Stu's playing on Aftermath, say Doncha Bother Me, than it has to Nitzsche's playing.

Mathijs

Are you sure he said We Love You and February?
Seems very early for We Love You.

Yes, and I do things he mixes up two sessions: he worked with Brian on the Degree of Murder soundtrack in February, and his first session with the Stones was in May 1967, where they worked on We Love You amongst others.

Mathijs

Thanks - sounds very likely!

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DandelionPowderman
At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

Brians melletron makes the song

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman
At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

Brians melletron makes the song

It adds to it, and nicely at that. Take away Nicky's piano riff and the song is dead.

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman
At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

Brians melletron makes the song

It adds to it, and nicely at that. Take away Nicky's piano riff and the song is dead.

Uh Uh.Brian’s mellotron is the song.Hopkins is playing a riff on thepiano which mirrors Brian .It sounds Brian not Keith or Hopkins is the main music creator on this great songThe piano could be removed and the song would be as good if not better.It seems with you any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

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His Majesty
Death Of A Rolling Stone - The Brian Jones Story - By Mandy Aftel. Page 98.

Alexis Korner, who was closest to Brian during his last months, said that although Brian was writing songs during that time, "he wouldn't show them to me. He'd only tell me about them. He always started out with a little bit about how he'd written songs which people wouldn't record. Then he'd start talking in vague terms about ideas he'd had for songs while staying in Morocco; things he wanted to get together. He would never come to terms about it. Brian would use the term 'song,' but at the end of two hours' conversation, you hadn't the slightest idea of what they were."

Hi HM, did you ever meet or interview Mandy? I remember buying this book when it came out back in the early 80s, always liked it.

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman
At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

Brians melletron makes the song

It adds to it, and nicely at that. Take away Nicky's piano riff and the song is dead.

Uh Uh.Brian’s mellotron is the song.Hopkins is playing a riff on thepiano which mirrors Brian .It sounds Brian not Keith or Hopkins is the main music creator on this great songThe piano could be removed and the song would be as good if not better.It seems with you any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

It's one of my favourite songs. It sounds like you don't hear what the song is built around? I love Brian's mellotron, but it is the piano that carries the tune.

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman
At least it sounds like Nicky Hopkins deserved a credit on We Love You

Brians melletron makes the song

It adds to it, and nicely at that. Take away Nicky's piano riff and the song is dead.

Uh Uh.Brian’s mellotron is the song.Hopkins is playing a riff on thepiano which mirrors Brian .It sounds Brian not Keith or Hopkins is the main music creator on this great songThe piano could be removed and the song would be as good if not better.It seems with you any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

To me it's absolutely the piano that makes the songs. But the mellotron makes the atmosphere of the song.

Concerning who is the creator -there are outtakes of She's Like a Rainbow where Jagger is singing the piano melody to Hopkins. And Keith's demo of Dandelion -a strummed guitar and a voal melody without words, but the song is there 100%. I think this was the case for most of Jagger and Richards work they had the melodies, they had some phrases that defined the song. All the rest is 'icing on the cake'. And in Jagger's own words, having a trained musician like Hopkins meant it would take you to certain directions earlier, but without them you would have gotten there as well.

Mathijs

Keith also plays the melody line while singing on Dandelion (then called 'Sometimes Happy, Sometimes Blue').

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His Majesty

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Doxa
Well, probably there is a long way to go from "ideas for songs" to actual songs... Seemingly it was just talk with Alexis, not like picking up an instrument and saying 'you know, it goes like this'. For some people probably an idea is some kind of riff, a chord sequence or a melody or lyric sketch, but for Brian that seemed to more like intellectual idea with no musical or any actual content yet. I wonder if the song Brian said to had for BEGGARS BANQUET (according to Bill, Brian said that to Mick), was such an 'idea' as well.

Probably Brian would have needed some kind of 'ghostwriter' to turn those intellectual ideas into form of music...

Song-writing is not any rocket science (whether the results are any good is another issue), but for Brian it sounded to be something like that... Could it be that he was aiming too high? Write something totally unique and original? He was an ambitious guy, so who knows.

- Doxa

My, not too strongly held, opinion is that post 21st May 1968 to spring 1969 Brian became more of a conceptual musician than an actively engaged, regularly playing and technically developing one.

For example, his Joujouka album, or inviting Al Kooper to a Stones session which turned out to be the recording of YCAGWYW, one could argue, had a bigger impact than his actual playing contributions with The Stones at the time. The Joujouka album is certainly of more cultural importance than his autoharp on You Got The Silver. Something not often highlighted is that George Chkiantz had to talk Brian out of overdubbing other musicians on to the recordings. He is really an unsung hero of that album, the one doing the actual recording, edits and effects etc.

...

The role of a producer that sometimes plays on the recordings of the people he produces would seem to have been a good fit for Brian. A potentially very respected and lucrative position as well, which I'm sure he'd have loved.

If things hadn't gone down the way they had, maybe he could have resurfaced with the band in '74 and produced IORR and Black and Blue, playing some marimba?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:22 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
I can't imagine Brian in 1974.

Most likely he had by then founded a band with Jimi Hendrix and having Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin do the vocals...

Seriously, I have sometimes played with the 'if' idea, but it is pretty difficult to even imagine potential routes for Brian to go. Something that could have been realized. Too many 'ifs'. He was a pretty mysterious musician, pretty hard to define precisely. And died so bloody young. I liked your 'conceptional musician' idea, though.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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His Majesty
I can't imagine Brian in 1974.

Most likely he had by then founded a band with Jimi Hendrix and having Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin do the vocals...
- Doxa

Thereby preventing The Righteous Brothers from recording "Rock 'n' Roll Heaven." Sheer genius. You need a time machine.

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Taylor1
It seems with [DandelionPowderman] any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

Clearly you've never seen Bard go on about how much he loves "Too Much Blood." It's the one time I question why I still send him Christmas cards.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:22 by His Majesty.

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
It seems with [DandelionPowderman] any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

Clearly you've never seen Bard go on about how much he loves "Too Much Blood." It's the one time I question why I still send him Christmas cards.

The Bard? I didn’t know Shakespeare was a fan of Too Much Blood

Please forgive my trivial humor. This is my favorite thread on IORR at present and I don't mean to detract from it.

Brian had really 1, maybe 2 bad years fron1967 to 1969.In not a forelorn conclusion that had he lived he would not have got himself together and gone on to make good music.He was as instrumental as anyone in creating the sound of the Stones and was a fine musician.

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His Majesty

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DGA35


Hi HM, did you ever meet or interview Mandy? I remember buying this book when it came out back in the early 80s, always liked it.

I have talked to her via private messages on FB etc.

Nice, as a follow up, have you ever seen/heard any rare Stones audio/video from the 60s that is not available to the bootleg community?

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Taylor1

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
It seems with [DandelionPowderman] any song where Keith is not the primary creator you don’t have good things to say about it

Clearly you've never seen Bard go on about how much he loves "Too Much Blood." It's the one time I question why I still send him Christmas cards.

The Bard? I didn’t know Shakespeare was a fan of Too Much Blood

well...there was that "Et Tu Brutus scene" so it's not without precedence.

Question for His Majesty: Is Brian’s guitar audible on the Jumping Jack Flash promovideo , by Michael Lindsay Hogg,not the one where they have makeup on , but the one Brian has a short sleeve shirt on.