Tell Me :
Talk
I don't see why it couldn't have happened. Keith was sick, Brian jumped in and they did half a dozen blues tunes. Why not.
Mathijs
Well, most of all it looks to me Brian was a moody guy, and he probably had a bad day, something probably, as usual, to do with band dynamics and relationship and not with music per se, behind those harsh words. That of just picking up "Walking The Dog" might refer to his role in it.
But if trying to make some musical sense out of it, probably for Brian's blues purist stance THE ROLLING STONES EP sounded a bit too 'commercial' or 'poppish' compared to the stuff they had done in club circuit days (and something, say, The Yardbirds were still doing). Surely all R&B stuff, but something The Beatles might do as well, and not any, say, Elmore James or Muddy Waters stuff - more 'authentic' blues - the band was initially inspired from. The criticism of their first album is a bit far-reaching from this point if view. though. Well, those not being "rubbish" I guess might include stuff like "King Bee", "I Just Want To Make Love To You" and "Mona".. (but surely not "Tell Me"!)
But funnily, he sees to rate poppish "I Wanna Be Your Man" very high. Could the reason be that he had a very distinctive role there...
Anyway, more back to my original remark: it could be that picking up material for their records Brian didn't have that big role. As a producer that seemed to be especially Andrew's job - he supposedly having an ear for pop market. That he teamed up with Mick and Keith - them being probably more willing to his ideas - made it all worse to Brian. This even before when the original songs by Mick and Keith took over. The band seemed to trust Andrew very much during the early days. Or probably they contractually had not any other option. My way or highway... However, with the latter route came "money and adulation" Brian, a hedonist and probably a bit narcissist dude by nature, was seemingly addicted to..
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 15:11 by Doxa.
Can you show that quote?
Mathijs
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 17:32 by Taylor1.
The difference to Brian mocking their first, just released album (and three moths earlier released EP) is that in the case of Brian those were all they had at the time, and his declaration that they have come musically to a "full stop" indicates that there is no hope in future either. But for Mick of 1968, having just released or about to release "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and having BEGGARS BANQUET in the can almost ready to go, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS was 'yesterday's papes' - an old-fashionable (and not that critically claimed or huge selling) album - and he was into new trends and sounds by then. He even claimed that he didn't recall the songs in there (released just, say, 18 months before) ... This can also seem as PR talk made in public in promoting the upcoming, supposedly groundbreaking album. Brian's remark was a private one, made to her girlfriend who shared it with her friends (and one we would know years after the fact).
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 17:50 by Doxa.
Likely this interview:
[www.rocksbackpages.com]
Hoping somebody has access to the article.
Mathijs
Timeisonourside.com is pretty accurate, regarding the numbers Brian is on. Some small errors, though, about the instruments he played (steel guitar on No Expectations, for instance).
He's on 8 songs, according to timeisonourside.com, but I wonder if 7 is the correct number.
[timeisonourside.com]
Check HM's great site The Brian Jones Resource!:
[brianjonesresource.wixsite.com]
Wow, for some reason I had not seen that site before - impressive!!
It's second hand, but her recall of what was said was written down in a latter within a day or so of her being with Brian. So, a pretty accurate insight into how he was feeling and thinking at the time, imo.
He was probably drunk...
Or just having a bad day
AWESOME!! Thank you so much! This seems legit!
Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?
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--------------------------------------------
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Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 31, 2023 14:59
Hehe.. Sounds like Brian had some musical disagreements about the direction of the group from pretty early on.... But going back to Richmond to play with the Yardbirds seemed to matter him musically more. Brian obviously had difficulties to deal with the pop world him and the Stones now belonged to.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-31 15:04 by Doxa.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-31 15:04 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 31, 2023 15:05
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Congratulations
()
Date: January 31, 2023 17:20
I wonder why Jim McCarty claims it never happened? Yes, I know he's nearly 80 and that it was a very long time ago, but this is something he's unlikely to forget.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 31, 2023 18:13
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 31, 2023 18:59
Quote
His Majesty
Someone commented on facebook page that maybe Brian just jumped up on harmonica for a number or so with Keith there...
Jim might be meaning that Brian never covered for Keith being ill. That, if Ronnie Wood can be believed, is what Ronnie did.
I don't see why it couldn't have happened. Keith was sick, Brian jumped in and they did half a dozen blues tunes. Why not.
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 31, 2023 19:21
.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:23 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 1, 2023 13:20
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:24 by His Majesty.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:24 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 1, 2023 14:08
. People say contradictory things all the timeQuote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
Hehe.. Sounds like Brian had some musical disagreements about the direction of the group from pretty early on.... But going back to Richmond to play with the Yardbirds seemed to matter him musically more. Brian obviously had difficulties to deal with the pop world him and the Stones now belonged to.
- Doxa
This has put me off him.
'He said he's in the Stones now only for the money & the adulation... he say's... musically they've come to a full stop... He doesn't rate their E.P. [The Rolling Stones] at all - & say's the L.P. [The Rolling Stones] is mostly a lot of rubbish, but the star track is "Walking The Dog"...'
Now I'm wondering if the Stones music from 1964 - 1969 meant anything to him.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 1, 2023 14:13
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:24 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:24 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2023 14:54
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
Hehe.. Sounds like Brian had some musical disagreements about the direction of the group from pretty early on.... But going back to Richmond to play with the Yardbirds seemed to matter him musically more. Brian obviously had difficulties to deal with the pop world him and the Stones now belonged to.
- Doxa
This has put me off him.
'He said he's in the Stones now only for the money & the adulation... he say's... musically they've come to a full stop... He doesn't rate their E.P. [The Rolling Stones] at all - & say's the L.P. [The Rolling Stones] is mostly a lot of rubbish, but the star track is "Walking The Dog"...'
Now I'm wondering if the Stones music from 1964 - 1969 meant anything to him.
Well, most of all it looks to me Brian was a moody guy, and he probably had a bad day, something probably, as usual, to do with band dynamics and relationship and not with music per se, behind those harsh words. That of just picking up "Walking The Dog" might refer to his role in it.
But if trying to make some musical sense out of it, probably for Brian's blues purist stance THE ROLLING STONES EP sounded a bit too 'commercial' or 'poppish' compared to the stuff they had done in club circuit days (and something, say, The Yardbirds were still doing). Surely all R&B stuff, but something The Beatles might do as well, and not any, say, Elmore James or Muddy Waters stuff - more 'authentic' blues - the band was initially inspired from. The criticism of their first album is a bit far-reaching from this point if view. though. Well, those not being "rubbish" I guess might include stuff like "King Bee", "I Just Want To Make Love To You" and "Mona".. (but surely not "Tell Me"!)
But funnily, he sees to rate poppish "I Wanna Be Your Man" very high. Could the reason be that he had a very distinctive role there...
Anyway, more back to my original remark: it could be that picking up material for their records Brian didn't have that big role. As a producer that seemed to be especially Andrew's job - he supposedly having an ear for pop market. That he teamed up with Mick and Keith - them being probably more willing to his ideas - made it all worse to Brian. This even before when the original songs by Mick and Keith took over. The band seemed to trust Andrew very much during the early days. Or probably they contractually had not any other option. My way or highway... However, with the latter route came "money and adulation" Brian, a hedonist and probably a bit narcissist dude by nature, was seemingly addicted to..
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 15:11 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 1, 2023 15:57
Jagger said in his 1968 interview with Jann Webber in Rolling Stone that Between the Buttons was not any good except for Back Street Girl. Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: February 1, 2023 16:06
Quote
Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist
Can you show that quote?
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 1, 2023 17:12
I read it in Crawdaddy or possibly Creem .But I’m 99 percent sure it was Crawdaddy.My city library had old copies of the magazine, so I must have read it back in the late 1980s when I was in high school. I believe the interviewer asked Keith about Brian writing songs and Keith replied that Brian as far as he knew never wrote a song in his life.He then contrasted Taylor with that quote. I also believe the interviewer asked him about the Tony Scaduto book, and I think in this same interview he said , he”couldn’t bring himself to read anything where the author verbally raped Marianne Faithful, because she will say anything “.I think this is the interview where he also asked Keith if the band was better in 1974 than 1964 and Keith replied basically that people are nostalgic, and said that just because a guy thinks they were better in 1964 because he was screwing a chick in the back seat of his car doesn’t mean we were better then.”The article was in the magazine in the summer of 1974, right before Taylor quit In December.The Jagger interview was actually with Jonathan Cott, where Jagger says Buttons isn’t any good except for Back Street Girl.Quote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist
Can you show that quote?
Mathijs
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 17:32 by Taylor1.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2023 17:45
Quote
Taylor1
Jagger said in his 1968 interview with Jann Webber in Rolling Stone that Between the Buttons was not any good except for Back Street Girl.
The difference to Brian mocking their first, just released album (and three moths earlier released EP) is that in the case of Brian those were all they had at the time, and his declaration that they have come musically to a "full stop" indicates that there is no hope in future either. But for Mick of 1968, having just released or about to release "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and having BEGGARS BANQUET in the can almost ready to go, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS was 'yesterday's papes' - an old-fashionable (and not that critically claimed or huge selling) album - and he was into new trends and sounds by then. He even claimed that he didn't recall the songs in there (released just, say, 18 months before) ... This can also seem as PR talk made in public in promoting the upcoming, supposedly groundbreaking album. Brian's remark was a private one, made to her girlfriend who shared it with her friends (and one we would know years after the fact).
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 17:50 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 1, 2023 17:58
Quote
DoxaQuote
Taylor1
Jagger said in his 1968 interview with Jann Webber in Rolling Stone that Between the Buttons was not any good except for Back Street Girl.
The difference to Brian mocking their first, just released album (and three moths earlier released EP) is that in the case of Brian those were all they had at the time, and his declaration that they have come musically to a "full stop" indicates that there is no hope in future either. But for Mick of 1968, having just released or about to release "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and having BEGGARS BANQUET in the can almost ready to go, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS was 'yesterday's papes' - an old-fashionable (and not that critically claimed or huge selling) album - and he was into new trends and sounds by then. He even claimed that he didn't recall the songs in there (released just, say, 18 months before) ... This can also seem as PR talk made in public in promoting the upcoming, supposedly groundbreaking album. Brian's remark was a private one, made to her girlfriend who shared it with her friends (and one we would know years after the fact). Doxa quote. You don’t know that Brian really said that to his girlfriend,because she is saying that not him.Whereas we know Jagger said that about Between the Buttons because it came directly from him.Plus even if he said that to his girlfriend how do you know if she quoted him accurately.Maybe what he meant was they needed to write songs and not rely on just being a covers band
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 18:24 by Taylor1.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 1, 2023 19:12
Yeah, true Taylor1, that Brian's quote is a second-hand one, and naturally needs to be a bit careful with those. But since we do not have an access to people's mind - you know, what they really think - we need to go with the evidence, be the source whatever, we have. And build our stories from the base of those. But I think those by her (name escapes me) sound pretty plausible. Sounds like coming from Brian's mouth. Probably some details could be wrong, but I don't think she intentionally bullshits there, at least as far as the big picture goes. Brian account of early Stones releases seemed to be pretty low. At least at that very moment...
I tried to give some account why it was so, but yeah, your suggestion of him being tired with covers and wanted original stuff is as good as mine. But personally what I know about Brian does not quite fit to that idea. But then again, who knows...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 19:16 by Doxa.
I tried to give some account why it was so, but yeah, your suggestion of him being tired with covers and wanted original stuff is as good as mine. But personally what I know about Brian does not quite fit to that idea. But then again, who knows...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 19:16 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: February 1, 2023 20:23
Quote
Taylor1I read it in Crawdaddy or possibly Creem .But I’m 99 percent sure it was Crawdaddy.My city library had old copies of the magazine, so I must have read it back in the late 1980s when I was in high school. I believe the interviewer asked Keith about Brian writing songs and Keith replied that Brian as far as he knew never wrote a song in his life.He then contrasted Taylor with that quote. I also believe the interviewer asked him about the Tony Scaduto book, and I think in this same interview he said , he”couldn’t bring himself to read anything where the author verbally raped Marianne Faithful, because she will say anything “.I think this is the interview where he also asked Keith if the band was better in 1974 than 1964 and Keith replied basically that people are nostalgic, and said that just because a guy thinks they were better in 1964 because he was screwing a chick in the back seat of his car doesn’t mean we were better then.”The article was in the magazine in the summer of 1974, right before Taylor quit In December.The Jagger interview was actually with Jonathan Cott, where Jagger says Buttons isn’t any good except for Back Street Girl.Quote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist
Can you show that quote?
Mathijs
Likely this interview:
[www.rocksbackpages.com]
Hoping somebody has access to the article.
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: February 1, 2023 20:41
I read it in Crawdaddy or possibly Creem .But I’m 99 percent sure it was Crawdaddy.My city library had old copies of the magazine, so I must have read it back in the late 1980s when I was in high school. I believe the interviewer asked Keith about Brian writing songs and Keith replied that Brian as far as he knew never wrote a song in his life.He then contrasted Taylor with that quote. I also believe the interviewer asked him about the Tony Scaduto book, and I think in this same interview he said , he”couldn’t bring himself to read anything where the author verbally raped Marianne Faithful, because she will say anything “.I think this is the interview where he also asked Keith if the band was better in 1974 than 1964 and Keith replied basically that people are nostalgic, and said that just because a guy thinks they were better in 1964 because he was screwing a chick in the back seat of his car doesn’t mean we were better then.”The article was in the magazine in the summer of 1974, right before Taylor quit In December.
Sounds more like the interview Robert Greenfield did Rolling Stone magazine
ROCKMAN
Sounds more like the interview Robert Greenfield did Rolling Stone magazine
ROCKMAN
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DiamondDog7
()
Date: February 2, 2023 11:21
His Majesty,
Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?
This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?
Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?
This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 2, 2023 11:34
Quote
DiamondDog7
His Majesty,
Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?
This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?
Timeisonourside.com is pretty accurate, regarding the numbers Brian is on. Some small errors, though, about the instruments he played (steel guitar on No Expectations, for instance).
He's on 8 songs, according to timeisonourside.com, but I wonder if 7 is the correct number.
[timeisonourside.com]
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: February 2, 2023 12:14
Quote
DiamondDog7
His Majesty,
Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?
This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?
Check HM's great site The Brian Jones Resource!:
[brianjonesresource.wixsite.com]
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
RobberBride
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:20
Wow, for some reason I had not seen that site before - impressive!!
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:20
It seems to me Brian was very involved in Satanic Majesties.His mellotron, flutes , sitar, dulcimer are all over the album. In fact he seems as dominant as Keith musically. And then he does contribute to Beggars Banquet. But didn’t he tell Jimmy Miller early on he was into more experimental electronic music and wouldn’t be much help to the sessions. But then he did contribute to the album.The problem was only guitar on No Expectations and maybe Sympathy . So the Stones were by 1967 basically a one guitarist band
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:30
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:42
Quote
Doxa
Yeah, true Taylor1, that Brian's quote is a second-hand one, and naturally needs to be a bit careful with those.
It's second hand, but her recall of what was said was written down in a latter within a day or so of her being with Brian. So, a pretty accurate insight into how he was feeling and thinking at the time, imo.
He was probably drunk...
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:47
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
Yeah, true Taylor1, that Brian's quote is a second-hand one, and naturally needs to be a bit careful with those.
It's second hand, but her recall of what was said was written down in a latter within a day or so of her being with Brian. So, a pretty accurate insight into how he was feeling and thinking at the time, imo.
He was probably drunk...
Or just having a bad day
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 2, 2023 13:56
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DiamondDog7
()
Date: February 2, 2023 17:21
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DiamondDog7
His Majesty,
Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?
This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?
This is my findings: [brianjonesresource.wixsite.com]
All open to change if or when information is found which suggests a change is needed.
AWESOME!! Thank you so much! This seems legit!
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: February 2, 2023 18:24
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:25 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
dandelion1967
()
Date: February 3, 2023 04:08
Quote
His Majesty
The site needs a big update. Lots to add, corrections etc.
Not Brian's work related to, but Cool calm and collected's piano is not played by Stu. Jack Nietzche... maybe Nicky?
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--------------------------------------------
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