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Rubbish ...
ehem Mick should be embarrassed, like Keith gives a shit.
Neither of them should be embarrassed.
well he was right. the stones havent written anything as good as "bitter sweet" for about 40 years. ;-) and it really is a shame that they could only give it back now. the song has almost nothing to do with jagger/richards.
Written???? Ashcroft added lyrics to a ken tune that was very clearly "borrowed" from the ALO orchestre version of The Last Time. Although I've never been a fan of how ABKCO did business, to say the least, but in the case of TBS they acted correctly. That's why the gesture of Mick and Keith should be very, very much appreciated, because they we not into this "fight" to start with. It was an ABKCO thing.
Ashcroft behaved as a petty crook and he knew. Shame on him.
Ashcroft wrote it. The words and a majority of the music was original. The only part sampled was the string section, without that the song is still a banger.
It's hardly noticable! Ashcroft is also just a great musician.
Sampled? That string section is the heart of the song. Without it, it would not have been the hit is was. Stick to the rules (sampling) and there would have been no problems. That's what the judge says. And Ashcroft should say: thank you, thank you, thank you Mick and Keith.
The similarity is with the rendition by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra; not the Stones original. There is, as you correctly state, no apparent similarity with the latter-mentioned.
I'm in with you here all the way!
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Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: May 26, 2019 10:20
In Being Mick when Mick and his daughter stroll into Elton John's Venetian-themed party, classical musicians start playing a song and Mick thanks them. But I couldn't recognize what song of Mick's it was that he would be thanking them. Only later when I heard the Verve/Oldham version(s) of the song did I get it. Condign closure legally, though.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: May 26, 2019 12:49
Really? Not sure of Charlie Watts but Keef obviously can’t let go of the past and has no problem with speaking ill of the death. I thought Jagger had some regret about how poorly they treated Brian. The best, most creative version of the band was with Brian.Quote
His Majesty
Where's his cut, credit and accolades? Ah, Mick, Keith and Charlie have been bitter about him for 50 + years so his contribution is apparently null and void. Nice.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: May 26, 2019 13:22
I wonder if Jim Bob and Fruitbat are going to be making similar overtures to Mick?
After The Watershed (Early Learning The Hard Way)
[www.youtube.com]
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
After The Watershed (Early Learning The Hard Way)
[www.youtube.com]
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: May 26, 2019 14:01
Quote
MrMibbs
M and K should be embarrassed they made a dime off of this like they needed it in the first place
Rubbish ...
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: May 26, 2019 20:21
Quote
georgie48Quote
MrMibbs
M and K should be embarrassed they made a dime off of this like they needed it in the first place
Rubbish ...
ehem Mick should be embarrassed, like Keith gives a shit.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 26, 2019 20:31
Quote
keithsmanQuote
georgie48Quote
MrMibbs
M and K should be embarrassed they made a dime off of this like they needed it in the first place
Rubbish ...
ehem Mick should be embarrassed, like Keith gives a shit.
Neither of them should be embarrassed.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: June 25, 2019 23:16
A Bitter Sweet Saga: How Richard Ashcroft Lost And Won Back The Songwriting Rights To His Signature Tune
6/24/2019 by Richard Smirke
Carla Speight/Redferns
[www.billboard.com]
6/24/2019 by Richard Smirke
Carla Speight/Redferns
[www.billboard.com]
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: June 25, 2019 23:57
It looks as though ABKCO hasn't given anything up....yet.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
PaintMonkeyManBlack
()
Date: June 26, 2019 00:05
Nice story
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
TooTough
()
Date: April 18, 2020 15:15
And who is going to get what from whom out of this shit?
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: April 18, 2020 16:22
Quote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"
Hmm, I'm not sure about that.
I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.
Anyone else remember?
well he was right. the stones havent written anything as good as "bitter sweet" for about 40 years. ;-) and it really is a shame that they could only give it back now. the song has almost nothing to do with jagger/richards.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: April 18, 2020 16:41
Quote
guitarbastardQuote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"
Hmm, I'm not sure about that.
I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.
Anyone else remember?
well he was right. the stones havent written anything as good as "bitter sweet" for about 40 years. ;-) and it really is a shame that they could only give it back now. the song has almost nothing to do with jagger/richards.
Written???? Ashcroft added lyrics to a ken tune that was very clearly "borrowed" from the ALO orchestre version of The Last Time. Although I've never been a fan of how ABKCO did business, to say the least, but in the case of TBS they acted correctly. That's why the gesture of Mick and Keith should be very, very much appreciated, because they we not into this "fight" to start with. It was an ABKCO thing.
Ashcroft behaved as a petty crook and he knew. Shame on him.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: April 19, 2020 02:55
this crap sold millions of copies?
just shoot me.
jb
just shoot me.
jb
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
CJFP
()
Date: April 19, 2020 03:16
Quote
georgie48Quote
guitarbastardQuote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"
Hmm, I'm not sure about that.
I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.
Anyone else remember?
well he was right. the stones havent written anything as good as "bitter sweet" for about 40 years. ;-) and it really is a shame that they could only give it back now. the song has almost nothing to do with jagger/richards.
Written???? Ashcroft added lyrics to a ken tune that was very clearly "borrowed" from the ALO orchestre version of The Last Time. Although I've never been a fan of how ABKCO did business, to say the least, but in the case of TBS they acted correctly. That's why the gesture of Mick and Keith should be very, very much appreciated, because they we not into this "fight" to start with. It was an ABKCO thing.
Ashcroft behaved as a petty crook and he knew. Shame on him.
Ashcroft wrote it. The words and a majority of the music was original. The only part sampled was the string section, without that the song is still a banger.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 19, 2020 03:27
All credits should go to ALO and Ashcroft......I never ever did hear any similarity with The Last Time....
__________________________
__________________________
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
CJFP
()
Date: April 19, 2020 03:50
Quote
NICOS
All credits should go to ALO and Ashcroft......I never ever did hear any similarity with The Last Time....
It's hardly noticable! Ashcroft is also just a great musician.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: April 19, 2020 12:01
Quote
CJFPQuote
georgie48Quote
guitarbastardQuote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"
Hmm, I'm not sure about that.
I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.
Anyone else remember?
well he was right. the stones havent written anything as good as "bitter sweet" for about 40 years. ;-) and it really is a shame that they could only give it back now. the song has almost nothing to do with jagger/richards.
Written???? Ashcroft added lyrics to a ken tune that was very clearly "borrowed" from the ALO orchestre version of The Last Time. Although I've never been a fan of how ABKCO did business, to say the least, but in the case of TBS they acted correctly. That's why the gesture of Mick and Keith should be very, very much appreciated, because they we not into this "fight" to start with. It was an ABKCO thing.
Ashcroft behaved as a petty crook and he knew. Shame on him.
Ashcroft wrote it. The words and a majority of the music was original. The only part sampled was the string section, without that the song is still a banger.
Sampled? That string section is the heart of the song. Without it, it would not have been the hit is was. Stick to the rules (sampling) and there would have been no problems. That's what the judge says. And Ashcroft should say: thank you, thank you, thank you Mick and Keith.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: April 19, 2020 12:01
Quote
NICOS
All credits should go to ALO and Ashcroft......I never ever did hear any similarity with The Last Time....
The similarity is with the rendition by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra; not the Stones original. There is, as you correctly state, no apparent similarity with the latter-mentioned.
Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: April 19, 2020 13:09
Quote
His Majesty
The Staples version = a take on a 'traditional song that has no apparent writer.
The Stones version = The staples take on a traditional song simplified down as a chorus with an added new verse/melody and distinctive guitar riff.
The ALO version = The stones last Time slowed down to about 60% of original speed. Utilising a simplified version of Brian's riff as the main bass and tubular bells parts. The main verse melody is utilised as a slow string part.
BSS - The above with the verse on a loop with added lyrics and some changes to the melody. Double the tempo of Brian's riff with some additional notes for the skipping string motif.
If folks want, I can record some examples to show this more clearly in audio form.
...
Essentially, it's an example of the aural tradition with some creative contributions at every stage made complicated by greed based legal bullshit.
Brian's riff is key to 3 iterations. Where's his cut, credit and accolades? Ah, Mick, Keith and Charlie have been bitter about him for 50 + years so his contribution is apparently null and void. Nice.
I'm in with you here all the way!
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