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The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:10

One of rock music's most famous injustices has finally been resolved.

For the last 22 years, The Verve haven't made a penny from Bittersweet Symphony, after forfeiting the royalties to The Rolling Stones.

The song was embroiled in a legal battle shortly after its release, after The Verve sampled an orchestral version of The Stones' song The Last Time.

As a result, writer Richard Ashcroft had to sign over his rights to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards - until now.

Speaking as he received a lifetime achievement prize at the Ivor Novello Awards, Ashcroft announced: "As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for Bittersweet Symphony, which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do."

Ashcroft acknowledged that it was the Rolling Stones' late manager, Allen Klein, who had been responsible for the situation, rather than the musicians themselves.

"I never had a personal beef with the Stones," he told the BBC. "They've always have been the greatest rock and roll band in the world."

He went on to thank Jagger and Richards for acknowledging he was responsible "for this [expletive] masterpiece".

[www.bbc.co.uk]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:16

That's a nice little story. I loved Bittersweet Symphony back in the day...very '90s, but it holds up.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:35

The right thing to do, and also good because it'll annoy Alan Klein's ghost

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:38

"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"

Hmm, I'm not sure about that.

I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.

Anyone else remember?

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:45

Good news - they should rerelease the single and/or license it out to anyone who wants to use it!

"I let the melody shine, let it cleanse my mind, I feel free now..."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Kurt ()
Date: May 23, 2019 20:50

Good...
Great song!

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:20

Quote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"

Hmm, I'm not sure about that.

I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.

Anyone else remember?

I imagine Richard Ashcroft was grumpy at the time, but if you'd seen his opening performances on the Stones' tour last year it was clear his hatred was directed at the song's owner, the Allen Klein family, while his love for the Stones was loud and clear.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:22

Quote
DeanGoodman
Quote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"

Hmm, I'm not sure about that.

I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.

Anyone else remember?

I imagine Richard Ashcroft was grumpy at the time, but if you'd seen his opening performances on the Stones' tour last year it was clear his hatred was directed at the song's owner, the Allen Klein family, while his love for the Stones was loud and clear.
Oh, I definitely don't blame him for being grumpy.

I also seem to recall Keith making a flippant and sarcastic remark about which probably didn't help matters.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:35

From The Guardian:

Bitter Sweet Symphony is one of the definitive British singles of the 1990s: a moody, existential anthem driven forward by a distinctive string motif. Those four seconds of strings were sampled from an orchestral recording of the Rolling Stones song The Last Time, but the rights were not fully cleared before the song was released.

Publishing company ABKCO, owned by Rolling Stones manager Allen Klein, argued that the Verve had used a larger portion of the sample than was agreed, and, following a lawsuit that was settled out of court, forced Ashcroft to relinquish the song’s royalties and create a new songwriting credit: Jagger/Richards/Ashcroft. Following the decision, Ashcroft quipped: “This is the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.”

But following an overture to Jagger and Richards from Ashcroft’s management company, the pair “immediately, unhesitatingly and unconditionally agreed” to hand over the royalties. Ashcroft gave thanks to everyone involved in the deal: “My management Steve Kutner and John Kennedy, the Stones manager Joyce Smyth and Jody Klein (for actually taking the call), lastly a huge unreserved heartfelt thanks and respect to Mick and Keith. Music is power.”

[www.theguardian.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:38

Is he buying us dinner? Tickets to a show?
Glad somebody’s gettin paid around here LOL
Nah y’know I love that tune.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-23 21:39 by 35love.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:52

Quote
keefriff99
"I never had a personal beef with the Stones"

Hmm, I'm not sure about that.

I seem to recall Ashcroft saying some unkind things about Mick and Keith at the time, and about how they hadn't written a decent song in years (this was back in the late '90s.

Anyone else remember?

Yeah, he said Bitter was their biggest hit since Brown Sugar, maybe a couple of other snarky things

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:55

must we drudge up what everyone said at the bar 25 years ago? ^


“I would like to thank the main players in this, my management Steve Kutner and John Kennedy, the Stones manager Joyce Smyth and Jody Klein (for actually taking the call) lastly a huge unreserved heartfelt thanks and respect to Mick and Keith. Music is power.”

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 23, 2019 21:57

Wonderful outcome …..and nice to see
humanity has finally ridden back inta town ….



ROCKMAN

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: JumpinJimF ()
Date: May 23, 2019 22:12

A nice gesture but this could be the last time that Mick and Keith do anything like this...

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: May 23, 2019 22:25

Why would they have to do something like this again ? It's not like there were many such examples ;-)

RS writes about it too : [www.rollingstone.com]

"This ruling has always been patently absurd — Jagger and Richards had nothing to do with the dreamy string section that Ashcroft sampled, nor with Ashcroft’s original lyrics and melody — but it’s stood for more than two decades, until now: The BBC reports that the Stones have voluntarily returned the songwriting credits for “Bitter Sweet Symphony” to their rightful owner."

It was indeed a ridiculous lawsuit and only something Allen Klein could do ! A right bast.rd till the end.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 23, 2019 22:46

Quote
Deltics
From The Guardian:

Bitter Sweet Symphony is one of the definitive British singles of the 1990s: a moody, existential anthem driven forward by a distinctive string motif. Those four seconds of strings were sampled from an orchestral recording of the Rolling Stones song The Last Time, but the rights were not fully cleared before the song was released.

Publishing company ABKCO, owned by Rolling Stones manager Allen Klein, argued that the Verve had used a larger portion of the sample than was agreed, and, following a lawsuit that was settled out of court, forced Ashcroft to relinquish the song’s royalties and create a new songwriting credit: Jagger/Richards/Ashcroft. Following the decision, Ashcroft quipped: “This is the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.”

But following an overture to Jagger and Richards from Ashcroft’s management company, the pair “immediately, unhesitatingly and unconditionally agreed” to hand over the royalties. Ashcroft gave thanks to everyone involved in the deal: “My management Steve Kutner and John Kennedy, the Stones manager Joyce Smyth and Jody Klein (for actually taking the call), lastly a huge unreserved heartfelt thanks and respect to Mick and Keith. Music is power.”

[www.theguardian.com]


Ha, I pasted the paragraph you bolded, must require a repeat (as I post)

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: runrudolph ()
Date: May 23, 2019 23:07

Richard put on a great opener for some of the 2018 gigs. Nice guy.
Jeroen

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: buttons67 ()
Date: May 23, 2019 23:07

not getting this, if allen klien owned the royalties how can jagger give them back.

they should hand back half only, apparently ashcroft cretaed half a masterpiece, ans sampled the other half.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: May 23, 2019 23:14

Quote
buttons67
not getting this, if allen klien owned the royalties how can jagger give them back.

they should hand back half only, apparently ashcroft cretaed half a masterpiece, ans sampled the other half.

Mick and Keith got songwriting royalties which they have now signed over to Ashcroft. ABKCO will probably still retain the publishing rights.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: May 24, 2019 03:50

Would love to know if Jagger-Richards are giving back past royalties? Maybe the royalties were held in escrow all these years?
How much does a song like this generate every year?

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 24, 2019 04:57

Probably as much as hiring Victoria Secret models for the videos:

THE ROLLING STONES You Got me Rocking(KAROLINA KURKOVA)
[m.youtube.com]

THE ROLLING STONES Let Me Down Slow (DOUTZEN KROES)
[m.youtube.com]

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: SKILLS ()
Date: May 24, 2019 05:07

Quote
wonderboy
Would love to know if Jagger-Richards are giving back past royalties? Maybe the royalties were held in escrow all these years?
How much does a song like this generate every year?

Well Gerry Rafferty made $250,000 a year from Baker Street, i'd put Bittersweet in a similar earning band

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: May 24, 2019 05:40

Richard Ashcroft...... Congratulations! Nice to have that check Rolling in every few months from now on. Great nostalgic video for this tune. Can see on youtubesmiling smiley

Same as Mathew Fisher won his court case about 7 years ago so now gets paid royalties for Whiter Shade of Pale.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: May 24, 2019 05:42

Quote
35love
Is he buying us dinner? Tickets to a show?
Glad somebody’s gettin paid around here LOL
Nah y’know I love that tune.

It's all about gettin paid! And feeling the love from gettin paid. Mick and Keith showed him the money.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: May 24, 2019 05:44

Quote
wonderboy
Would love to know if Jagger-Richards are giving back past royalties? Maybe the royalties were held in escrow all these years?
How much does a song like this generate every year?

My guess is no. This is a "from now on" type of arrangement.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Ellipooh ()
Date: May 24, 2019 05:57

The royalties were originally claimed on behalf of “The Last Time” but not the version I know. Instead, an instrumental version by ALOldham. Which I heard for the first time today. While I agree that Verve’s version plays heavily on that instrumental, I can’t for the life of me hear the MJ/KR tune in either. What am 8 missing?

***Can't you hear me knocking?***

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: May 24, 2019 07:29

Classy move from Mick & Keith

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Date: May 24, 2019 07:48

Quote
35love
Probably as much as hiring Victoria Secret models for the videos:

THE ROLLING STONES You Got me Rocking(KAROLINA KURKOVA)
[m.youtube.com]

THE ROLLING STONES Let Me Down Slow (DOUTZEN KROES)
[m.youtube.com]

Those are fan videos smiling smiley

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: May 24, 2019 07:56

Quote
Ellipooh
The royalties were originally claimed on behalf of “The Last Time” but not the version I know. Instead, an instrumental version by ALOldham. Which I heard for the first time today. While I agree that Verve’s version plays heavily on that instrumental, I can’t for the life of me hear the MJ/KR tune in either. What am 8 missing?

When you listen to the ALO Orchestra version, it's basically the song played at half speed. The violin plays the lyrics.

Re: The Bittersweet Symphony dispute is over
Posted by: 1963luca0 ()
Date: May 24, 2019 08:47

According to recent (2018) interviews given by Aschcroft, he extimated to be circa 100 million dollars the gross amount of money generated by 'Bittersweet Symphony', in terms of royalties. I guess he summed up ABKCO's (copyright holder) and Jagger/Richards (Authors) figures. Not bad, actually.
I admired the Glimmer Twins a little bit more, now.
Bye, Luca

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