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Many, many past winners of these tournaments don’t get a sniff nowadays because they just happen to play in a National League with very little TV and sponsorship income, or they don’t have a billionaire benefactor. It’s one billionaire’s plaything against another.
.....
............and extra time and penalties..........
Arsenal V Chelsea in the Europa league final for a full house....
Not that that would say a lot about Britain, hardly any of the players and none of the managers are British..........
Celtic in turn dominate their own national league because they have more money than the rest of the league added together, rendering said league pointless. So they benefit from the money obsession domestically and are punished by it in European competition.
I would not say 'hardly any of the players' , spurs had 6 British players in the squad last night and Kane was out injured.
Yes you can
My Dad was from Highbury and my Mum from from Tottenham , both sides of the family split, i'm the only one in the family who supports both sides, like to see them do well, and although i'm a Gunners supporter i don't mind Spurs beating us if they deserve it, plus it puts a smile on the face of my Mum and brothers. Don't understand all this cave man stuff, we are the same people, all this division between people is BS, it's taught to you, it's not natural.
When it comes to individuals now that's different, you like a human being or you don't, that's not taught to you, that's instinct.
Congrats to Spurs, epic game, they have to win the final now
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 12:15 by keithsman.
Fully agree, I don't get the tribal stuff either .
My original post was typed rather with tongue in cheek...
..just felt I'd better say it before somebody who really meant it started throwing things
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 12:30 by Spud.
Buttons, you are 100% spot on that the elite leagues have a built in unfair advantage. This is because of the stupid seeding coefficient system which gives Top 4 Teams from the elite leagues a higher rating purely because of the league they play in, before a ball is kicked. For example, in recent history several English Clubs such as Leicester, Stoke & Fulham have been giving high coefficients despite having little or no history of European competition.
Another point to add is that although their league is uncompetitive, Celtic at least always qualify as Domestic Champions.
Liverpool were last Champions of England in 1990. The last time Tottemham were champions was 1961, the same year Mick and Keith had their fateful meeting at Dartford Railway Station!
I'm a Scot living near Swindon. It's the same here. Swindon Town and Oxford United are largely ignored while all the fanboiz watch Corporate Football on Satellite TV. These Clubs might as well be based on Mars. I personally think it's ruined the game.
But at the end of the day it's consumers' freedom of choice. The World has far more serious problems to deal with.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
crawdaddy
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:10
What a great two nights for English football.
Liverpool and Spurs both through to the European Cup Final in Madrid against all the odds after being behind in the first leg.
Well done to all the teams in these two great semi-finals second leg.
Liverpool and Spurs both through to the European Cup Final in Madrid against all the odds after being behind in the first leg.
Well done to all the teams in these two great semi-finals second leg.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:13
Shame on you Ajax - how could you let this happen...
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Madcap
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:16
Unbelievable. What a choke job by Ajax 
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:22
Ironic that the Competition is called the Champions’ League and the 2 Finalists haven’t been champions of their own national league for 29 and 58 years respectively! Must be some kind of record.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:25
Hat trick by Lucas Moura! So, the final will be an English affair then... Barcelona and Ajax managed to lose in the end...
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
yorkshirestone
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:30
quite a couple of comebacks....0-0 final?!
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:33
Agree, Grzegorz. It's all business these days. Buy and sell, nothing else. But it doesn't matter what you and I think about that. Pecunia non olet, as Vespasian said.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:51
Winning the Champions League was 2 bridges too far. And Ajax is going to sell some of their best players. We'll have to wait another 30 years.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: May 9, 2019 00:51
Quote
Stoneage
Agree, Grzegorz. It's all business these days. Buy and sell, nothing else. But it doesn't matter what you and I think about that. Pecunia non olet, as Vespasian said.
Many, many past winners of these tournaments don’t get a sniff nowadays because they just happen to play in a National League with very little TV and sponsorship income, or they don’t have a billionaire benefactor. It’s one billionaire’s plaything against another.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 9, 2019 01:39
I don't understand how they manage to lose this way though. I mean dropping a 3-0 (2-0 and 1-0) lead with one half to go.
The same goes for Barcelona. It was almost an impossible mission to lose. But they made it!
The same goes for Barcelona. It was almost an impossible mission to lose. But they made it!
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: May 9, 2019 01:59
Quote
yorkshirestone
quite a couple of comebacks....0-0 final?!
.....
............and extra time and penalties..........Arsenal V Chelsea in the Europa league final for a full house....
Not that that would say a lot about Britain, hardly any of the players and none of the managers are British..........
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 9, 2019 02:06
Congrats Eddie! And you're honest too! I was trying to say something in that order earlier but erased it. In today's Orwellian landscape safety comes first!
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: May 9, 2019 02:34
it should be called the money league.
back in season 2012-2013 celtic got 10 points in the group stage.
man city in same season got 2.
mathematics tells me celtic got 8 more than city or 5 times as much, all groups in cl are considered equal.
following season man city go straight in to cl group stage while celtic have to stage 3 qualifying groups, how can that be right, does it matter what domestic league you play in, as long as your getting better cl results, but celtic got penalized for that cos of the league we play in.
back in season 2012-2013 celtic got 10 points in the group stage.
man city in same season got 2.
mathematics tells me celtic got 8 more than city or 5 times as much, all groups in cl are considered equal.
following season man city go straight in to cl group stage while celtic have to stage 3 qualifying groups, how can that be right, does it matter what domestic league you play in, as long as your getting better cl results, but celtic got penalized for that cos of the league we play in.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: May 9, 2019 02:58
Quote
Stoneage
Congrats Eddie! And you're honest too! I was trying to say something in that order earlier but erased it. In today's Orwellian landscape safety comes first!
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: May 9, 2019 03:22
Quote
buttons67
it should be called the money league.
back in season 2012-2013 celtic got 10 points in the group stage.
man city in same season got 2.
mathematics tells me celtic got 8 more than city or 5 times as much, all groups in cl are considered equal.
following season man city go straight in to cl group stage while celtic have to stage 3 qualifying groups, how can that be right, does it matter what domestic league you play in, as long as your getting better cl results, but celtic got penalized for that cos of the league we play in.
Celtic in turn dominate their own national league because they have more money than the rest of the league added together, rendering said league pointless. So they benefit from the money obsession domestically and are punished by it in European competition.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
GJV
()
Date: May 9, 2019 11:39
Ajax doesn't have that huge amount of money like the other clubs in the Champions Leage have, so it's surprising they reached the semi finals at all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-09 11:48 by GJV.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-09 11:48 by GJV.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Ket
()
Date: May 9, 2019 12:11
Quote
EddieBywordQuote
yorkshirestone
quite a couple of comebacks....0-0 final?!
.....
Arsenal V Chelsea in the Europa league final for a full house....
Not that that would say a lot about Britain, hardly any of the players and none of the managers are British..........
I would not say 'hardly any of the players' , spurs had 6 British players in the squad last night and Kane was out injured.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
NilsHolgersson
()
Date: May 9, 2019 14:06
That was one of the biggest chokes in football i've ever seen
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
RockingLonestar
()
Date: May 9, 2019 16:11
Two english teams in the European finale.
I thought England is no longer interested in European affairs ;-)
I thought England is no longer interested in European affairs ;-)
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: May 10, 2019 02:04
grzegorz. i know celtic dominate their league cos of momey. just like english clubs and spanish clubs dominate the champions league cos of money they receive for domestic league.
but when one club does better in the cl regardless of money or league they play in, they should recieve a higher coefficient that reflects that, individual results of teams in cl should be honoured in thier respective coefficient.
in the case i mentioned regarding celtic getting 10 points, and man city getting 2, clearly city get the rewards the following season and celtic didnt, that is clearly wrong. seeding places shou;d be awarded on merit, not awarded according to the richness of the league you play in.
but when one club does better in the cl regardless of money or league they play in, they should recieve a higher coefficient that reflects that, individual results of teams in cl should be honoured in thier respective coefficient.
in the case i mentioned regarding celtic getting 10 points, and man city getting 2, clearly city get the rewards the following season and celtic didnt, that is clearly wrong. seeding places shou;d be awarded on merit, not awarded according to the richness of the league you play in.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: May 10, 2019 10:31
It's impossible to make these things fair from everybody's point of view.
A "Champions League" or "European Cup" to be contested as originally conceived between the respective domestic league champions [and how ever many runners up] will never be the same thing as a competition between the best teams in Europe.
A "Champions League" or "European Cup" to be contested as originally conceived between the respective domestic league champions [and how ever many runners up] will never be the same thing as a competition between the best teams in Europe.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: May 10, 2019 12:10
Quote
Spud
You cannot be an Arsenal fan and a Tottenham fan at the same time.
Each half of yourself would then be obliged to hate the other with more venom than your sanity could withstand.
Yes you can
My Dad was from Highbury and my Mum from from Tottenham , both sides of the family split, i'm the only one in the family who supports both sides, like to see them do well, and although i'm a Gunners supporter i don't mind Spurs beating us if they deserve it, plus it puts a smile on the face of my Mum and brothers. Don't understand all this cave man stuff, we are the same people, all this division between people is BS, it's taught to you, it's not natural.When it comes to individuals now that's different, you like a human being or you don't, that's not taught to you, that's instinct.
Congrats to Spurs, epic game, they have to win the final now
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 12:15 by keithsman.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: May 10, 2019 12:13
Watched both games, and didn't see Ajax as a choke at all. Barca for sure, that was terrible performance. But Ajax...the Gods aligned against them. That 3rd goal by Moura - I think even he was surprised.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: May 10, 2019 12:28
Quote
keithsmanQuote
Spud
You cannot be an Arsenal fan and a Tottenham fan at the same time.
Each half of yourself would then be obliged to hate the other with more venom than your sanity could withstand.
Yes you can
When it comes to individuals now that's different, you like a human being or you don't, that's not taught to you, that's instinct.
Congrats to Spurs, epic game, they have to win the final now
Fully agree, I don't get the tribal stuff either .
My original post was typed rather with tongue in cheek...
..just felt I'd better say it before somebody who really meant it started throwing things
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 12:30 by Spud.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: May 10, 2019 12:40
Quote
buttons67
grzegorz. i know celtic dominate their league cos of momey. just like english clubs and spanish clubs dominate the champions league cos of money they receive for domestic league.
but when one club does better in the cl regardless of money or league they play in, they should recieve a higher coefficient that reflects that, individual results of teams in cl should be honoured in thier respective coefficient.
in the case i mentioned regarding celtic getting 10 points, and man city getting 2, clearly city get the rewards the following season and celtic didnt, that is clearly wrong. seeding places shou;d be awarded on merit, not awarded according to the richness of the league you play in.
Buttons, you are 100% spot on that the elite leagues have a built in unfair advantage. This is because of the stupid seeding coefficient system which gives Top 4 Teams from the elite leagues a higher rating purely because of the league they play in, before a ball is kicked. For example, in recent history several English Clubs such as Leicester, Stoke & Fulham have been giving high coefficients despite having little or no history of European competition.
Another point to add is that although their league is uncompetitive, Celtic at least always qualify as Domestic Champions.
Liverpool were last Champions of England in 1990. The last time Tottemham were champions was 1961, the same year Mick and Keith had their fateful meeting at Dartford Railway Station!
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: May 10, 2019 13:09
Loathe all this ‘supporting’ ‘multiple-clubs’ nonsense. It’s like the school playground. Supporting a team means attending matches, investing in the club and, ideally, having some genuine geographical connection. Sky Sports are one of the blaiming factors, for sure. By screening live Premier League football, they caused an increase in Manchester United ‘supporters’ in Kent, where as once they may have followed and attended matches by the only league club in Kent; Gillingham. It’s disgrsceful; utter bollocks.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
grzegorz67
()
Date: May 10, 2019 13:18
Quote
Big Al
Loathe all this ‘supporting’ ‘multiple-clubs’ nonsense. It’s like the school playground. Supporting a team means attending matches, investing in the club and, ideally, having some genuine geographical connection. Sky Sports are one of the blaiming factors, for sure. By screening live Premier League football, they caused an increase in Manchester United ‘supporters’ in Kent, where as once they may have followed and attended matches by the only league club in Kent; Gillingham. It’s disgrsceful; utter bollocks.
I'm a Scot living near Swindon. It's the same here. Swindon Town and Oxford United are largely ignored while all the fanboiz watch Corporate Football on Satellite TV. These Clubs might as well be based on Mars. I personally think it's ruined the game.
But at the end of the day it's consumers' freedom of choice. The World has far more serious problems to deal with.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: May 10, 2019 13:25
If "supporting" a club requires attending matches....then, whether in their home town or not, a lot of folks can't afford to be supporters.
And, as indicated earlier in this thread, there are plenty of football fans who love the game but don't necessarily have a strong or exclusive preference for one individual team .
I do get your pojnt though al...and I suspect that, like me, you perhaps wouldn't call the well healed corporate types in the executive boxes at fashionable clubs "football fans".
But the game today, whether we like it or not, is increasingly global.
...and the armchair fan who supports Man United or Barcelona from the comfort of his recliner in Kent, via his Sky & BT subscriptions, is never going to feel much affection from the fan who gets wet through and catches his death of cold on the terraces at Gillingham every other week .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 13:37 by Spud.
And, as indicated earlier in this thread, there are plenty of football fans who love the game but don't necessarily have a strong or exclusive preference for one individual team .
I do get your pojnt though al...and I suspect that, like me, you perhaps wouldn't call the well healed corporate types in the executive boxes at fashionable clubs "football fans".
But the game today, whether we like it or not, is increasingly global.
...and the armchair fan who supports Man United or Barcelona from the comfort of his recliner in Kent, via his Sky & BT subscriptions, is never going to feel much affection from the fan who gets wet through and catches his death of cold on the terraces at Gillingham every other week .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 13:37 by Spud.
Re: OT: Champions League 2019
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: May 10, 2019 13:34
No doubt this has been one spectacular edition of the cl, merit goes mainly to liverpool, ajax, tottenham and the wave of "playing forward" that they have presented. Lots of goals, speed, agonism et cetera.
Having said that the rule of the money in CL and in the main leagues in Europe has almost erased the already feble chances of minor teams to get to the top. Leicester in England was the last major exception. Here in Italy you have to go back to 1991 when Sampdoria won the scudetto. In the subsequent 27 years 5 teams have won but the biggest three of them (Juventus, Inter and Milan) have shared 25of them leaving one each to Roma and Lazio. Also Juventus won the last 8...
I think something completely different, and more "fair" to the spirit of competition happen in the Us where I thinks you find more variety at the top in the main sports each season. Am I wrong?
Having said that the rule of the money in CL and in the main leagues in Europe has almost erased the already feble chances of minor teams to get to the top. Leicester in England was the last major exception. Here in Italy you have to go back to 1991 when Sampdoria won the scudetto. In the subsequent 27 years 5 teams have won but the biggest three of them (Juventus, Inter and Milan) have shared 25of them leaving one each to Roma and Lazio. Also Juventus won the last 8...
I think something completely different, and more "fair" to the spirit of competition happen in the Us where I thinks you find more variety at the top in the main sports each season. Am I wrong?
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