...not only strumming reasons, his jacket also gets in the way - lol

72 Costum and 68 Rosewood with solid body.


67 Sunburst staying alive since the recording session of HTW.


52 Tele for G, D, G, B, D.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-22 15:48 by Toru A.

An old thread that I haven't seen before apparently got woken up.
Interesting subject, since I'm a fan of the '72 Custom and also run a website dedicated to this guitar:

[lidbjork.homelinux.org]

I'm sure Mathijs has plenty of remarks to make about its informative contents.

In response to some of your opinions and facts (or opinions presented as facts):

The Mexican reiusse isn't terrible. The craftmanship leaves some more to be desired, but the originals had some serious flaws too (although you seem to know this). The polyester finish is not overly thick. Thicker than the American Vintage lacquers, but not at all as "plasticy" and thick as the late '70s finishes. The Wide Range humbucker is worse than the original, but not by any big measures. I got a rewound (to original specs) in my MIM reissue, and it did not make a very big difference compared to the original Mexican unit. I also strongly doubt that they made the '70s sunbursts in alder, as I think ash has a much stronger and prettier grain, and has also been a very common wood for Fender guitars with transparent finishes (such as natural, sunburst, blondes). The current Mexican reissue is made of alder/poplar for the blacks but ash for the sunbursts.

i love when artists bring back old things onstage

LieB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Mexican reiusse isn't terrible. The
> craftmanship leaves some more to be desired, but
> the originals had some serious flaws too (although
> you seem to know this).

I just read what I wrote about the MIM, and it is indeed a bit too strong. I do think that it isn't a good instrument, but I must take into account that it's only a $500 guitar. What I wanted to address is that if you want a Custom like Keith's, in my opinion the Japanese build customs -with some alterations- is the best option.


> The polyester finish is
> not overly thick. Thicker than the American
> Vintage lacquers, but not at all as "plasticy" and
> thick as the late '70s finishes.

I agree to an extent. After 1976 Fender guitars got really bad. But until 1976, there's still quite a lot of really good Fender guitars to be found. Still, I find the coating of MIM Customs way too thick.

> The Wide Range
> humbucker is worse than the original, but not by
> any big measures.
> I got a rewound (to original
> specs) in my MIM reissue, and it did not make a
> very big difference compared to the original
> Mexican unit.

Here I wholeheartedly disagree. First, rewinding an reissue Wide Range Humbucker to original specs is not possible, as both pickups are entirely different beasts. The original one uses magnitized CuNiFe pole pieces with a copper wrap, while the reissue uses standard AlNiCo bar magnets with copper winding. The original pickups sounds strong, vibrant and clear while the reissue sounds dark, muddy and over loaded.

> I also strongly doubt that they made
> the '70s sunbursts in alder, as I think ash has a
> much stronger and prettier grain, and has also
> been a very common wood for Fender guitars with
> transparent finishes (such as natural, sunburst,
> blondes). The current Mexican reissue is made of
> alder/poplar for the blacks but ash for the
> sunbursts.

The MIM Sunburst Customs use alder, not ash for body wood.

Fender used ash on all guitars until late 1956 when they changed to alder for all solid colours including sunburst, and ash for all transparent colours like blonde and butterscotch. Basically, with some exceptions, this has stayed this way until 1972. Starting with the new models, Fender decided to use ash on virtually all guitars except alder for sunburst guitars until ab out 1975. After 1975, ash was used on all guitars. Starting from 1985, Fender uses ash for Vintage Reissue guitars, but alder for the American Standard. The specs for guitars produced these days is:

Japan
Up to 2003: basswood for all colour
Starting from 2003: ash for all colours (allthough only black is readily available)

MIM: until 2003 poplar for all colours, alder for sunburst. From 2003: alder for all colours, ash for sunburst.

MIA: ash for all colours, until about 1975 alder for sunburst.

Mathijs

since it's come up in another thread, after Keith used it for Happy in Paris:
is it the same black Tele custom that he was using from 79 to 82?

update: i see Mathijs has already noted that it seems to be -
and that Keith used it on the 92/93 Winos tour, revamped for open G tuning.

here are the best shots i have of it:


- Regina, october 6th 2006 by Bill Wilson

our cohort Ablett posted this one - looks like 06 to me, but i hope he'll let us know where/when it was taken ...
not the greatest shot of the guitar, actually, but it's a very cool one anyway :E


- 2006? courtesy of Ablett



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-22 13:32 by with sssoul.

am i the only one who can no longer see the photos Toru A posted?
in case i'm not the only one, here's the portrait of (i guess!) Keith's old black Tele custom
and his rosewood Tele - unless they're just guitars that resemble Keith's. no idea when it was taken, or by whom:


- courtesy of Toru A

ahh - here's a pretty good look at the current one:


- Auckland, april 16th 2006, by Jeff Brass, courtesy of Gypsy

i have never been so fond of 70´s fenders and finally sold all i had, but now if mathijs said it´s for him the classic keith sound i am very interested again, never had a custom.

i very much like the guitar sound on undercover and emotional rescue, i always thought he used the custom mostly, correct?

does anyone know how keith mixes the both pickups on the tele custom?
are the volume knobs both at 10?

i had humbuckers on teles before but never really liked it. the fender humbucker is supposed to sound clearer, is that true?

here are the best shots i've located from 75 to 82 ... and it seems worth repeating what the good Mathijs told us on page one:

"Keith bought his first Tele Custom from Gene Warner (now repairman at Krazy Kat Music) in San Antonio, TX
June 2nd 1975 (the exact date is known since the local dealer made it to national press with his story).
According to the dealer, he'd had the guitar for about half a year, meaning it most probably was a 1974 model.
In all accounts, it was a regular off-the-shelf Custom, straight from the factory:
a two- or three-piece ash body, maple neck, bridge single-coil pickup and a Fender Wide Range Humbucker in the neck,
classic three-saddle Telecaster bridge, white switch tip. Keith used this guitar during the 1975, 1976 and 1978 tours.
He replaced the guitar for the 1979 tour (most probably due to a bunch of guitars being either stolen or damaged in the [1978 Los Angeles] fire)
with a late 1975/early 1976 model with the then modern 6-saddle bridge, and a black switch tip.
He used this guitar for the New Barbarians tour. Somewhere before the 1981 tour (probably during the Longview Farm rehearsals),
this guitar was modified: the Fender 6-saddle bridge was replaced with a Schaller modern 6-saddle bridge,
the tuners were changed to Schallers, and the jack cup was replaced by a Gibson Les Paul type jack.
The switch tip was changed back to white, as it was replaced by a click-less Les Paul switch.
This guitar – a straight-from-the-factory late 1975/early 1976 model- would be his main guitar
for the 1981 and 1982 tours and his Hail Hail R&R guitar. The guitar returned in 1993 for the Winos [tour],
but now in 5-string modification: it was strung to 5 strings, and the low E slug of the single-coil
was pulled and filled with wax, in order to get rid of unwanted noise.
It was put away after the Winos tour, only to be pulled out again [late in 2005]!
Notice another change: the pickup selector switch has moved to the neck pickup’s tone pot.
In this way, Keith won’t accidentally hit it as he plays really high on the neck when playing open G."

thank you Mathijs - and i promise to try to remember that!



- 1975, by Christopher Simon Sykes, courtesy of Rock Man :E


- 1978, courtesy of BrownEyedGirll


- MSG Barbarians, may 7th 1979 by Richard Aaron, courtesy of Coowouters


- june 1982, courtesy of Mathijs



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-22 15:02 by with sssoul.

withsssoul, thank you. I'm drewling.

smile: my name is two words (or just sssoul will do fine too!) -
don't drool on the photos - glad they groove you :E

meanwhile, i don't have even one photo of this instrument from the 92/93 Winos tour -
really hoping someone else has some and could post them, please and thank you!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-22 13:36 by with sssoul.

a couple more ...
[peering hard:] so was the bridge changed between the El Mocambo gig and the 78 tour, or is it a different guitar?


left: El Mocambo, march 4th or 5th 1977 by Ken Regan; right: Oakland, july 26th 1978 by Greg Myrha

here's a closer look at the El Mo shot:


El Mocambo, march 4th or 5th 1977 by Ken Regan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-22 17:15 by with sssoul.

Very nice reading!

What do you think about the Edwards micawber copy mathijs? I think it´s an awesome guitar and by far the most authentic looking, compared to Keiths...

This is the one i mean:

[www.guitarjapan.com]

Re: the close up that sssoul posted -

What is that white powder on Keith's sleeve? Bert?

>> What is that white powder on Keith's sleeve? <<

talc. some guitarists - including Keith and Ronnie -
dust their hands with it pretty regularly on stage

Errrr, okay, if you say so.

"No Anchovies, Please"

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a couple more ...
> so was the bridge changed between the El Mocambo
> gig and the 78 tour, or is it a different guitar?

It's all really hard to say actually. Looking at the features of the guitars, four guitars can be distinguished:

1. The Custom with 1973 appointments: 3-saddle bridge, white switch, vintage jack cup and the "hump" on the bass site at the 19th fret touching the neck is still quite small. Used on the 75 and 76 tour, as well as El Mocambo;
2. The Custom with 1975/1976 features: Fender six-saddle bridge, white switch tip, jack cup, hump at neck is a tad larger, used at the 1978 tour;
3. The Custom with 1975/1976 features: Fender six-saddle bridge, black switch tip, flat square jack plate like on a Les Paul, hump at neck is a tad larger, used on the New Barbarians tour;
4. The 1981/1982 tour Custom: a white switch tip, Schaller six-saddle bridge and Schaller tuners, jack plate;

As far as I understand, guitars number three and four is the same guitar. There is some arm wear on the top edge of the body that is similar. Guitars 1 and 2 are most likely also one and the same guitar. He lost various guitars in the 1978 fire in LA, and I guess the Custom was one of them, as was the Zemaitis Macabre.

Mathijs

JumpinJeppeFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very nice reading!
>
> What do you think about the Edwards micawber copy
> mathijs? I think it´s an awesome guitar and by far
> the most authentic looking, compared to Keiths...

I know nothing about this guitar actually. It looks like a stressed poly finish, and I don't really like that.

Mathijs

>> It's all really hard to say actually. Looking at the features of the guitars, four guitars can be distinguished <<

thanks Mathijs! as you know i'm easily confused, so thanks for pointing out the highlights to look for.
at least in the photos above, the "hump" (if i'm lookin at the right bit!) looks the same to me in 78 and 81-82;
the 79 one is the one that looks different to me "humpwise" - is that just the angle of that shot?
i guess there's no way the 78 guitar could have been renovated after the fire to return in 81 - 82,
while a stand-in took its place in 79? or ... [scratching dinosaur brain] ... look at these shots. smile: i'm confused. :E


- all 1979: [1] CNIB apr 22nd, courtesy of S. Grigoryan; [2] Atlanta may 10th by Tom Hill; [3] Denver may 15th by Henry Diltz



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-23 10:18 by with sssoul.

I just love the looks of the black 72 custom. It is soo Keith.. I just bought me a brand new Mex one myself a few months ago. I only cost me € 520. And for my poor playing it sounds great.

Great reading chaps, many thanks to Matthijs and Withssoul. You really amaze me with your knowledge.

>> chaps <<

smile: i'm a she-sssoul -
and all i'm doing is illustrating what the knowledgeable sorts are talking about. :E
and gratefully absorbing it, of course - many thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-23 01:18 by with sssoul.

Grrrreat pics with sssoul!!

>>the 79 one is the one that looks different to me "humpwise" - is that just the angle of that shot? <<

The hump on the '79 pic is a little bit more round and reaches the neck around the 17th fret.
on the b & w pic the hump is more flat and and comes to the neck around the 16th fret.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-25 15:07 by open-g.

>> The hump on the '79 pic is a little bit more round and reches the neck at the 19th fret.
on the b & w pic the hump is more flat and and comes to the neck on the 17th fret. <<

ohh thank you open-g honey - but which 79 picture do you mean? the one up a ways earlier,
or the set of three i just posted? they're all from 79 - as are these here -
has he just changed the switch, or ... how many black custom Tele's did Keith have in 79??


- left: Oakland may 20th 1979, by Greg Myrha; right: Shangri-La Studios may 21st 1979, by Henry Diltz

as many as he wanted, i reckon ... :E



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-10-23 21:13 by with sssoul.

>>ohh thank you Open-G honey - but which 79 picture do you mean? the one up a ways earlier,
or the set of three i just posted? they're all from 79 - as are these here -
has he just changed the switch, or ... how many black custom Tele's did Keith have in 79?? <<

Oh yes of course, I meant the set of 3 pictures - #1 and #2 of the three.

on your last 2 oakland pics the hump joins at the 19th fret again.

Can I borrow your eye's!? :-()

>> on your last 2 oakland pics the hump joins at the 19th fret again. <<

thank you open-g honey
(in the last pair of photos i posted, the one on the left is Oakland and the one on the right is
Shangri-La Studios in Malibu, where they recorded Truly for Mac's album - i'll try to make my captions clearer!)

>> Can I borrow your eyes!? <<

smile: thanks HM - i second that. i guess i just don't understand which bit i should be looking at.
if you feel like pointing at it for me, open-g, i would be fascinated and grateful.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-10-23 21:14 by with sssoul.

I a little intrigued by this discussion around the "hump"..presumably the heel shape of the neck is being referred to.
The profile here certainly does vary in chatacter between one Fender guitar and another...but even a very slight change in the angle of view can alter the perception of the heel contour.
It's hard to any draw any really firm conclusions based on that feature I suspect.
It's also possible, I suppose, that if Keith has a couple or more of these similar vintage Customs...at some stage the necks could have been swapped over for service related reasons.